1985 Citroen BX 19GT overhaul

1985 Citroen BX 19GT overhaul

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Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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Some progress on the GT recently, windscreen out to attack the rot:






It actually looks worse than it is - there's still some metal left around the edges! Plan is to remove the front wings and doors, and fabricate some new panels to replace the filler I'll likely be cutting out of it next week. We've got 4 good doors to replace the shoddy ones currently fitted, so they can be refitted too.

Time is now even tighter however, because I'm an idiot who keeps buying BXs:



A 1990 ph2 1.9 16v, pretty much the same as my red one. This one is very tidy up top, but an MOT failure underneath. Rare model with factory fitted air-con, but it needs some work. And then when I've fixed it, what do I do? Sell it? Sell mine? Sell them all?? Keep them all??? Build a death star? I'll be fked if I know what to do!

S10GTA

12,645 posts

166 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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I vote death star.

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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go for the complete range: AX and XM too.

Jobbo

12,959 posts

263 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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williamp said:
go for the complete range: AX and XM too.
That's hardly complete! And a CX would be more appropriate than an XM, for the naming convention.

Hyde

514 posts

147 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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Kitchski said:
And then when I've fixed it, what do I do? Sell it? Sell mine? Sell them all?? Keep them all??? Build a death star? I'll be fked if I know what to do!
You forgot another option "buy some more BXs" biggrin

S10GTA

12,645 posts

166 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
quotequote all
Hyde said:
Kitchski said:
And then when I've fixed it, what do I do? Sell it? Sell mine? Sell them all?? Keep them all??? Build a death star? I'll be fked if I know what to do!
You forgot another option "buy some more BXs" biggrin
He part owns this one too

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

pwrc

2,357 posts

151 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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S10GTA said:
that's awesome. without wishing to necrobump, how is it doing?

Hyde

514 posts

147 months

Tuesday 14th August 2012
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S10GTA said:
You both seem to have an addiction to the quirky french stuff laugh

I can see the appeal, back in the early 90s I loved my ZX Volcane, my Brother's BX took a serious amount of abuse and my father in-laws BX nearly got to stay on my driveway.

The garage I bought my ZX from lent me a BX 16v (4x4? did they make a 4x4 one?) for a day.
It was a superb thing, I was so tempted to try & buy it but had only bought the ZX so frown

Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Sunday 19th August 2012
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Hyde said:
S10GTA said:
You both seem to have an addiction to the quirky french stuff laugh

I can see the appeal, back in the early 90s I loved my ZX Volcane, my Brother's BX took a serious amount of abuse and my father in-laws BX nearly got to stay on my driveway.

The garage I bought my ZX from lent me a BX 16v (4x4? did they make a 4x4 one?) for a day.
It was a superb thing, I was so tempted to try & buy it but had only bought the ZX so frown
They never made a BX 16v 4x4 - the GTi 4x4 was an 8v. Pretty slow at that.

Peugeot coupled the 16v lump to a 4x4 system, but strangely enough although the 405 and the BX are very similar under the skin, the 4x4 systems were different. The one in the BX couldn't take the power of the 16v. In fairness, it struggled with the 8v too!

Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Tuesday 4th September 2012
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Work's been progressing quite nicely on the BX. I'll let the pictures do most of the talking:



2 minutes later:




Nothing horrific in terms of rot found under front wings which was a relief:








Dash out:





That'll need sorting:





BX insisting on continuing to self-level!



Headlining out:



On to the windscreen A-pillars - the most likely source of headaches!









Apply Kurust and ps off for a bit:



Start attacking the rot:












The BX looks like a square car. The guy who fabricated these repair panels said there wasn't a straight line on it! What a bd it was to get the bend right in this! Filler is the finishing touch yes, but you want to use as little as possible!



More repair sections:





Primed for now. Filler will be next stage on this bit, but there are the other bits to do yet! And the engine's got to come out.





Mouse1903

839 posts

152 months

Tuesday 4th September 2012
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Great work, those seats look mega comfy!

v8will

3,301 posts

195 months

Tuesday 4th September 2012
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We had 2 BXs back in the 1990's, one a hatchback and the other an estate both running the non turbo XUD(?) engine.

Absolutely gutless but so so comfy and very versatile, my father sold the estate to a work colleague who I believe ran it up until a couple of years ago. The hatch was stolen and put through a hedge a few miles later.

The hatch was replaced by one of the 1st VTR Saxos (pre 1st facelift and keypad immobiliser) which stayed in the family for 10 years and just this year my old man has gone back to Citroen with a new Berlingo Multispace. A competent car but lacks all of the charm and quirkiness of the BX.

Great thread OP.

Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 12th October 2015
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Wow! Forgot I made this thread, and stumbled across it while searching for something on Google images (something like "I know that car! Hang on.....")

Well, car's still not finished. Moral of the story? Don't assume all is what it seems! Because I've got so many other things on at work, I just happened to wander a cursory glance over the GT when I was assessing what needed tackling, and that's proven to be a mistake. I'll get to that later!

So, in 2012 I reported I'd got the A-pillars around the windscreen all ok again, but there was more corrosion down on the lower sections, around the door hinges. It's a common rot spot on a BX with a sunroof, as the drainage tubes pass through here, and the whole box section tends to become a moisture trap if the drainage port blocks up. Which it does. Frequently:




It's a very common rot point for BXs!




The internal surfaces of the pillar section were covered in rust, but luckily nothing else structural. I kept applying rust treatment through the limited access I had while I was putting strength back in the outer skin. Sometimes you've got to draw the line somewhere:



Actually cut this bit open to gain more access to the crud inside!





Then had to check the alignment right for the check strap bracket:




Then it was ready for paint!:




Replacement doors (Ivory, originally) were sorted first, along with the original wings, which happily were in good condition:


[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kitch/media/BX%20GT/DSCF5554_zpsfgcgetwn.jpg.html
[/url]


All done:




Then the car came back smile :







Naturally the first thing I did was fit the replacement boot spoiler:



Those spoilers are rare as hen's teeth! They're old skool foamy rubber types. The original had gone all rough and crazed, and this replacement was way better.

Continued the build-up:




And then that's when I started realising that in my haste to get the car painted (I got a good price because I took it to the guy while he was having a quiet period, so I rushed it to paint basically) that I'd missed a rusty section in the boot. Sorting rust after paint is never good, but no big deal:





It had actually spread to the underside of the rear panel too. Arse:



No bother, repairs were done:




I cracked on getting the car back together. Nothing could stop me now:






Unless I missed a little bit more rust.......? rolleyeseek

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

167 months

Monday 12th October 2015
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I love what you're doing here, and adore the car. One of my favourites back when you could get a new one.

As you obviously understand these beasts can I ask what I am sure is a really spectacularly dumb, stupid and idiotic Citroen question? This is inspired by your pic some time ago of it with the front wheels up the ramp and the back standing on tippy-toes to level the car.

How does a Cit know when to level itself with the horizon i.e. perpendicular to gravity, and when not to? I mean, there it is on the ramp levelling like crazy, but they don't do that when you're driving up a hill, they stay parallel to the road. As they should. So how does it decide when to level itself with reference to a sloping road, and when to level itself in relation to gravity?

MrMoonyMan

2,582 posts

210 months

Monday 12th October 2015
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Good update, love the BX's.

I'm afraid to say I once killed a white 19 estate when I was too young and up to no good.

Fantastic seats. I also remember it under steering a lot everywhere, although that was probably more to do with me!

Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
Lowtimer said:
I love what you're doing here, and adore the car. One of my favourites back when you could get a new one.

As you obviously understand these beasts can I ask what I am sure is a really spectacularly dumb, stupid and idiotic Citroen question? This is inspired by your pic some time ago of it with the front wheels up the ramp and the back standing on tippy-toes to level the car.

How does a Cit know when to level itself with the horizon i.e. perpendicular to gravity, and when not to? I mean, there it is on the ramp levelling like crazy, but they don't do that when you're driving up a hill, they stay parallel to the road. As they should. So how does it decide when to level itself with reference to a sloping road, and when to level itself in relation to gravity?
It's not a dumb question at all! You're right, it would be difficult for a car to differentiate between a hill and something like you see in the picture. Simple answer? I don't actually know why it did that! I guess I was probably clambering all over the front of it removing bits and bobs, and the front sank quicker because of that. If it had been on flat ground, chances are it would have sank evenly, but it's possible the fact the front was up on ramps was placing more compression on the front end while I was climbing in and out. If you park one up after a drive, it'll sink of its own accord (usually rear first within 1-2hrs, followed by front after 10-24hrs, but they're at an age now where almost anything goes!) But if you clamber in and out, it speeds up the sinking process, as the sinking is effectively caused by the mass of the car pressing down on all the suspension cylinders, and all the hydraulic fluid being forced back to the tank via the network of pipes and valves etc. While the engine's off, you can remove some of the rubber pipes that go back to the LHM tank, and they'll actually be 'bleeding' fluid until the point the car has fully sunk. Next time you see a BX or similar parked up, suspension still raised, you can rest assured things are moving around even though the owner's in the shops! laugh

So in short, there's no way the system can level out gyro-style, but it does constantly keep the car at the right ride height, regardless of load. That means on many models, you can run near zero toe and castor settings (in fact the CX runs zero everything; castor, camber and toe as the contact patch of the tyre is always perfect because the suspension compensates for everything). The way the BX does it is fiendishly simple, but I won't bore everyone with that! Nor will I bore everyone with the brake load compensation system, or the anti-dive system, where you can lean on the brakes and the front doesn't dive at all.....yet the suspension remains fully compliant. Reason I won't bore anyone on that one is because I don't know how it works!

Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
So, it seems I might have missed some more rust:



That's the offside inner rear wing. They like to rot here on BXs, as underneath there is a clip retaining a breather tube from the fuel filler neck. The clip posts onto a threaded stud, kind of like a self-tapping screw thread. And, being that cars tend to be undersealed using a rubberised spray-on adhesive, it only needs one fitting of the retaining clip to threaded stud to remove all traces of underseal from said thread, et voila! Bare metal, ripe for rusting! The rust begins, spreads underneath the underseal and works its way both through the metal, and up to the bonded seam the rear quarter panel attaches to. What this means is that when it lets go, it REALLY lets go:



That's without poking, that's as it was found. Anybody knows if you find a hole 30mm across, the metal you'll need to cut out will be 60mm across. Great!



So then I thought, "Maybe I should poke around a little bit more." And so I did, and rapidly wished I didn't:




Those are the rear chassis rails near the subframe mounts. To this day, I cannot believe I managed to miss all that! The only excuse I can come up with is that I inspected the car on a 4-poster, with all the wheels still attached. With the wheels on, it's much harder to see those areas, though not impossible. I'm normally so anal about that kind of thing, and I also tend to be the type who welds in new sections just because the old ones look bad, rather than have actually rotten through. Completely and utterly pissed off at this point, and finding this rot completely turned the tables on timescales, hence why it's still going today!

So, thanks to the new chassis rail issues, the rear axle and fuel tank had to be dropped:








At least with all that out of the way, I've got access to really get in there and protect everything properly for years to come!
So then the fabrication started:




Old metal cut away, new sections going in:




And then it was down on a dolly to free the ramp up for paying jobs! Back axle on the floor, loads of metal cutting still to do, LOADS of rusted areas to weld up, and I haven't even started the engine bay yet!


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
Keep going, mate. Plenty of pics of all the nastiness... I've been thinking of late that I need something a bit larger and more sensible than the 205, and running out of reasons for it not to be a BX - but this is exactly what I need. You're doing a great job in putting me RIGHT off...

Kitchski

Original Poster:

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Keep going, mate. Plenty of pics of all the nastiness... I've been thinking of late that I need something a bit larger and more sensible than the 205, and running out of reasons for it not to be a BX - but this is exactly what I need. You're doing a great job in putting me RIGHT off...
I could completely ruin that by pointing out most BXs aren't this bad, and the model as a whole is one of the better rust-proofed cars of the 80's. Certainly better protected and engineered than a 205 anyway tongue out

Just don't get a white 16v or a Hurricane. No idea why, but both of them rust worse! Non-sunroof models survive rust the best. Low miles means solid underneath, but more frilly on the bodywork, and higher milers are the opposite way around.

Let me know when the lure of decent handling, peppy performance, low running costs, high comfort, good visibility, reliable mechanicals and the best ride south of an S-class wins you over wink

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
Let me know when the lure of decent handling, peppy performance, low running costs, high comfort, good visibility, reliable mechanicals and the best ride south of an S-class wins you over wink
As soon as I get round to finding a decent one, cheap.

As for the "best ride" - well, I _have_ owned four CXs and a G, so I can't see anything with MacStrerson Phuts taking that mantle easily...