1985 Citroen BX 19GT overhaul
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
Well, the ride height is adjusted from the ARB as that automatically corrects for roll. There is a delay of ~5s though before it takes effect which is why you can fool it with a long full throttle run!
The "anti-dive" is due to the rear brakes being off the rear suspension, because of that it bleeds pressure from the suspension and lowers it at the back which keeps the car level. So the car still dives at the front, it just dives at the back by the same amount and keeps it level.
I'm not sure it does squat under braking though. To a certain degree, yes, and I know in Xantias and XMs, heavy braking does cause the whole car to squat slightly, but on the BX I'm nigh-on certain the front suspension isn't compressing at all. I've felt the back end try to pull down under heavy braking before, but the front feels like it's just staying put, hence why I was convinced it was the work of witches!The "anti-dive" is due to the rear brakes being off the rear suspension, because of that it bleeds pressure from the suspension and lowers it at the back which keeps the car level. So the car still dives at the front, it just dives at the back by the same amount and keeps it level.
I'll have to get a go-pro on the side and film it stopping suddenly!
Kitchski said:
I've grown out of full-speed runs down the M27! (Especially against blue Xsara VTS')
Every so often I love a full-speed run of the M27. Especially if you're coming toward So'Ton on the A31. That road still holds the record for the fastest I have ever driven on the public road!Kitchski said:
Fastdruid said:
Well, the ride height is adjusted from the ARB as that automatically corrects for roll. There is a delay of ~5s though before it takes effect which is why you can fool it with a long full throttle run!
The "anti-dive" is due to the rear brakes being off the rear suspension, because of that it bleeds pressure from the suspension and lowers it at the back which keeps the car level. So the car still dives at the front, it just dives at the back by the same amount and keeps it level.
I'm not sure it does squat under braking though. To a certain degree, yes, and I know in Xantias and XMs, heavy braking does cause the whole car to squat slightly, but on the BX I'm nigh-on certain the front suspension isn't compressing at all. I've felt the back end try to pull down under heavy braking before, but the front feels like it's just staying put, hence why I was convinced it was the work of witches!The "anti-dive" is due to the rear brakes being off the rear suspension, because of that it bleeds pressure from the suspension and lowers it at the back which keeps the car level. So the car still dives at the front, it just dives at the back by the same amount and keeps it level.
I'll have to get a go-pro on the side and film it stopping suddenly!
Although may still be the work of witches.
Fastdruid said:
Check that out: https://youtu.be/cqtmfoFs-5c?t=1m (it should start at a minute in). I know what you're saying, and the back end does pull down slightly, but the front just doesn't dip on a BX. The tyres seem to have movement than the suspension there. I know from previous experience the XM does dive slightly, but the rear end goes with it as you say. The Xantia's the worst of the lot for it. I've had two non-HA models, and an Activa, and the whole car used to squat under braking. Activa made up for it in the corners of course!Be warned - the video is exceptionally cheesey, although the GT model does make a brief appearance. Probably because it was only briefly produced!
Kitchski said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Don't go playing hard to get.
Genuinely I have no idea what you're talking about! He's suggesting you send it in for the http://www.citroencarclub.org.uk/drupal/citroenian I think
Kitchski said:
Fastdruid said:
Check that out: https://youtu.be/cqtmfoFs-5c?t=1m (it should start at a minute in). I know what you're saying, and the back end does pull down slightly, but the front just doesn't dip on a BX. The tyres seem to have movement than the suspension there. I know from previous experience the XM does dive slightly, but the rear end goes with it as you say. The Xantia's the worst of the lot for it. I've had two non-HA models, and an Activa, and the whole car used to squat under braking. Activa made up for it in the corners of course!Be warned - the video is exceptionally cheesey, although the GT model does make a brief appearance. Probably because it was only briefly produced!
You can kind of see it in that video at about 1m8s, as the BX comes to a halt it rises.
[1] As mentioned here[2] http://bx16valve.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Br...
[2] Ah so much reminiscing over the BX19 DTR Estate and BX19 GTi my parents used to have.
Edited by Fastdruid on Wednesday 4th November 15:20
Fastdruid said:
I think there are two things, firstly there is anti-dive in the suspension geometry itself[1] and then the self-levelling aspect of the rear brakes.
You can kind of see it in that video at about 1m8s, as the BX comes to a halt it rises.
[1] As mentioned here[2] http://bx16valve.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Br...
[2] Ah so much reminiscing over the BX19 DTR Estate and BX19 GTi my parents used to have.
Could be geometry at play there. The rising at 1m8s though, is mostly the back end. The front hardly moves. I think you're probably right, and that it is the rear suspension controlling it for the most part, but it's possible it's just much more effective on the BX than other models I've tried. It's as impressive as the Activa is around a corner, if I'm honest.You can kind of see it in that video at about 1m8s, as the BX comes to a halt it rises.
[1] As mentioned here[2] http://bx16valve.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Br...
[2] Ah so much reminiscing over the BX19 DTR Estate and BX19 GTi my parents used to have.
thiscocks said:
Dibs on the car when you have finished!
I'll fight you for it 
I love old BXs, we had various examples in our family from an A reg BX 14 to a J reg Meteor 1.6 and most things in between. I also nearly bought an M reg ex taxi estate with 360k miles on the clock but didn't like the look of it enough.
Suppose I should update the blog! Not a huge amount has happened since the last one, and what has happened has mostly been confined to rust removal, treatment and prevention. I'm getting pig-sick of wire brushes, paint, welding....you name it! Friday just gone I didn't have a great day, and actually downed tools and just stood there for a while at one point. I pondered digging the engine out of the corner and getting on with rebuilding that, but there wasn't enough time left to start all that, though it would have provided the change of scenery I think I badly need!
Anyway, we did get somewhere at least!
First off, I went on and removed the wishbones. The bushes are royally shagged, and because of the suspension arrangement on the BX, knackered bushes make quite a big impact on stability and handling:
The wishbones pivot on a spindle, which was nicely rusted into the wishbone bush sleeves:
Unlike the BX in my other thread (the TRS one) the GT uses a conventional bush arrangement, rather than the addition bearings etc fitted in the subframes on the earliest BXs. The bushes are easy to find, and happily the wishbones are still in plentiful supply, and complete with bushes:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-BX-XB-1982-1994-...
Though it wasn't without drama extracting that information from Euro Parts' online advisor:
Me: Hi, could you confirm these wishbones come with the bushes already fitted please? Thanks
ECP advisor L****l: Hi. Thank you for the message. For some they do come with bushes. Reagrds
Me: Hi, Ok. If I purchase a pair of wishbones from this listing, will they come with the bushes fitted? Thanks.
ECP advisor L****l: Hi, Thank you for the message. Please can we have your car registration. Regards
Me (getting the 'ump): Hi L****l, You don't need my car registration. This is the correct part for my car. All I want to know is whether these arms will come with bushes already fitted, as is shown on the picture (and is hinted at on the listing). If they come with bushes, I'll buy them. If they don't, I won't. It's really as simple as that. Thank you.
ECP advisor S**n: Hello, Thanks for your message, I can confirm that the item will be coming with the bushes, Regards
SUCCESS! It was so painless too!
Anyway, a good price and the arms arrived, indeed complete with bushes. Spot on, worth the hassle after all!
In the meantime, my foraging for tinworm had uncovered some ugly spots, and these were treated with Rustbuster's pre-treatment (kinda like Kurust, only it actually seems to work):
The whole offside inner arch/wheelarch was then finished off with Rustbuster black 2k epoxy mastic paint, with the original treated inner wing finished in grey stonechip, which overlaps the POR15 at the top:
I'd like to see it try and rust like it did before!
Actually I wouldn't, I'd cry!
Anyway, nearside continues from where I left off some weeks back. Any Family Guy friends here? You know Cleveland's catchphrase? Not the nasty one, the one he usually says when the front of his house gets wiped out and his bathtub falls out the front of his house. Imagine him, saying that while looking at these pics. That's what I was doing:
Luckily we got away with it, just some surface corrosion to treat:
So the nearside front arch currently looks like this, and I've lost the will to live:
So in the meantime, a picture of the GT in happier times at a museum in Surrey, along with my 16v (and yes, I know the number plates are gash etc - I was going through a phase!)
Anyway, we did get somewhere at least!
First off, I went on and removed the wishbones. The bushes are royally shagged, and because of the suspension arrangement on the BX, knackered bushes make quite a big impact on stability and handling:
The wishbones pivot on a spindle, which was nicely rusted into the wishbone bush sleeves:
Unlike the BX in my other thread (the TRS one) the GT uses a conventional bush arrangement, rather than the addition bearings etc fitted in the subframes on the earliest BXs. The bushes are easy to find, and happily the wishbones are still in plentiful supply, and complete with bushes:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-BX-XB-1982-1994-...
Though it wasn't without drama extracting that information from Euro Parts' online advisor:
Me: Hi, could you confirm these wishbones come with the bushes already fitted please? Thanks
ECP advisor L****l: Hi. Thank you for the message. For some they do come with bushes. Reagrds
Me: Hi, Ok. If I purchase a pair of wishbones from this listing, will they come with the bushes fitted? Thanks.
ECP advisor L****l: Hi, Thank you for the message. Please can we have your car registration. Regards
Me (getting the 'ump): Hi L****l, You don't need my car registration. This is the correct part for my car. All I want to know is whether these arms will come with bushes already fitted, as is shown on the picture (and is hinted at on the listing). If they come with bushes, I'll buy them. If they don't, I won't. It's really as simple as that. Thank you.
ECP advisor S**n: Hello, Thanks for your message, I can confirm that the item will be coming with the bushes, Regards
SUCCESS! It was so painless too!
Anyway, a good price and the arms arrived, indeed complete with bushes. Spot on, worth the hassle after all!
In the meantime, my foraging for tinworm had uncovered some ugly spots, and these were treated with Rustbuster's pre-treatment (kinda like Kurust, only it actually seems to work):
The whole offside inner arch/wheelarch was then finished off with Rustbuster black 2k epoxy mastic paint, with the original treated inner wing finished in grey stonechip, which overlaps the POR15 at the top:
I'd like to see it try and rust like it did before!
Actually I wouldn't, I'd cry!
Anyway, nearside continues from where I left off some weeks back. Any Family Guy friends here? You know Cleveland's catchphrase? Not the nasty one, the one he usually says when the front of his house gets wiped out and his bathtub falls out the front of his house. Imagine him, saying that while looking at these pics. That's what I was doing:
Luckily we got away with it, just some surface corrosion to treat:
So the nearside front arch currently looks like this, and I've lost the will to live:
So in the meantime, a picture of the GT in happier times at a museum in Surrey, along with my 16v (and yes, I know the number plates are gash etc - I was going through a phase!)
james_tigerwoods said:
Much *respec' to your work here - If it was me and I possessed even a modicum of your skill, I fear I might have thrown an epic strop, by now, and just bought all the parts for a new front end by now...
Ha! I'm not doing anything major here, it's just rubbing down, painting and welding, but thanks all the same!* Sorry for saying it like that, I'm posh me and I'd never say that
Can't buy a new front end though, sadly.
Another update, though not as momentous as I'd hoped it would be. Original plan was to have the front end all back together, painted and buttoned up by the turn of the New Year. That, ain't gonna 'appen.
What has 'appened, is more rust. Yeah, I know!
With the offside front arch done, I moved to the nearside to finish removing the majority of the old underseal that I thought might be concealing corrosion. Turns out, it was. So, on a day where a regular man from country went into space, I welded more bits of new metal into an old French heap:
So, again, what should have been a couple of hours prepping for paint, turned into another weldathon:
That's the sound insulation behind wear the dash goes, just in there....
So I made some bits of metal, which look like scrap on the floor....
....and proceeded to weld them into the arch:
They were then treated with Rustbuster fe-123 rust converter, in part to attack the bits of rust I can't get to, or are already on the surface, and also to prevent the rest of the surface from rusting overnight, as I've left a lot of bare metal surfaces there.
I'm trying to keep the standard high and make it hard to tell there was every any work carried out, but my patience is starting to wear thin! It's starting to be a case of get it done, as opposed to show it off! This is the nearside arch now ready for paint, which I'll then follow by flatting back the engine bay and painting that body colour (had the paint mixed the other day). Then I'll put back all the gear I'd already planned to have put back by now!
What has 'appened, is more rust. Yeah, I know!
With the offside front arch done, I moved to the nearside to finish removing the majority of the old underseal that I thought might be concealing corrosion. Turns out, it was. So, on a day where a regular man from country went into space, I welded more bits of new metal into an old French heap:
So, again, what should have been a couple of hours prepping for paint, turned into another weldathon:
That's the sound insulation behind wear the dash goes, just in there....
So I made some bits of metal, which look like scrap on the floor....
....and proceeded to weld them into the arch:
They were then treated with Rustbuster fe-123 rust converter, in part to attack the bits of rust I can't get to, or are already on the surface, and also to prevent the rest of the surface from rusting overnight, as I've left a lot of bare metal surfaces there.
I'm trying to keep the standard high and make it hard to tell there was every any work carried out, but my patience is starting to wear thin! It's starting to be a case of get it done, as opposed to show it off! This is the nearside arch now ready for paint, which I'll then follow by flatting back the engine bay and painting that body colour (had the paint mixed the other day). Then I'll put back all the gear I'd already planned to have put back by now!
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