My latest Furore F1
Discussion
Thanx for the comments & feedback guys, to answer a few Q's;
Yes, it has quadrant & pushrod front suspension.
Re proportions/airbox etc. some of these are compromises to get both car & bike engines available to be fitted & to be able to get a passenger behind the driver (when not using the airbox!) - it's an interesting packaging excersize, to say nothing of getting real life sized people in the car rather than F1 sized people. Obviously almost anything can be built if you're just building a one off to satisfy a particular set of parameters, barring budget constraints, but trying to build something which is versatile enough to satisfy a whole bunch of different customer requirements & still be capable of being produced in a road legal fashion with great performance at a sensible price (ie not T1 Caparro prices!) is a tad more difficult!
@ Futuramic, not quite understanding you, something like a model A would obviously have had a solid beam axle originally, if fitting IFS the most common ways would obviously be MacPherson strut, or a wishbone type system, the only simple way I can think of that would eliminate both would be some form of swing arm system, such as that used on the old 2 CV, not pretty or great in terms of functionality. Only other way would be a sliding pillar system off a beam axle type setup. Or, are you simply saying you want to get the springs & dampers out of sight? In which case there are a no. of ways you can use a double wishbone system & have springs & dampers inboard & out of sight - need a bit more info on exactly what you want to acheive?
Yes, it has quadrant & pushrod front suspension.
Re proportions/airbox etc. some of these are compromises to get both car & bike engines available to be fitted & to be able to get a passenger behind the driver (when not using the airbox!) - it's an interesting packaging excersize, to say nothing of getting real life sized people in the car rather than F1 sized people. Obviously almost anything can be built if you're just building a one off to satisfy a particular set of parameters, barring budget constraints, but trying to build something which is versatile enough to satisfy a whole bunch of different customer requirements & still be capable of being produced in a road legal fashion with great performance at a sensible price (ie not T1 Caparro prices!) is a tad more difficult!
@ Futuramic, not quite understanding you, something like a model A would obviously have had a solid beam axle originally, if fitting IFS the most common ways would obviously be MacPherson strut, or a wishbone type system, the only simple way I can think of that would eliminate both would be some form of swing arm system, such as that used on the old 2 CV, not pretty or great in terms of functionality. Only other way would be a sliding pillar system off a beam axle type setup. Or, are you simply saying you want to get the springs & dampers out of sight? In which case there are a no. of ways you can use a double wishbone system & have springs & dampers inboard & out of sight - need a bit more info on exactly what you want to acheive?
Edited by Russ Bost on Saturday 15th September 19:05
CypherP said:
In my mind, every one could do the same with a strong idea and enough passion and determination. I admire the OP for what he is doing and individual cars like this certainly keep Britain's roads interesting. I however don't like it, but can completely appreciate that there are plenty of people who do. However Spaximus, I, like every other member here, have an opinion and should I choose to dislike something doesn't mean I'm knocking the guy's abilities. I fear your horse may be a little too high.
You may be correct but on PH we do have too many people who overlook the engineering aspect. You say everyone could do the same. I doubt that as they must be able to do lots of design and have the skill set to navigate the IVA process let alone produce the chassis and body work.You are correct everyone has a right to an opinion which is what makes the world as it is, but there have been 17 people motivated enough to buy them so that in my mind is a huge sucess in the kitcar world. It may not be the prettiest car in the world but in a world of uniformity this is a breath of fresh air.
FELIX_5 said:
Exactly! Don't ask people what they think, if you only want nice comments!
I have no problem with people making negative comments, but I do like to hear why they have a problem with XYZ or whatever. Exceptionally childish comments like the first one in the thread I can only assume are made by people with some form of unusual mental condition. 
Russ Bost said:
...& top speed around 160 I believe, tho' never had any inclinatuion to take it that far & certainly not tested at that sort of speed...
This surprised me - as the manufacturer of this, don't you have an obligation (legal or moral) to test that it doesn't all come apart at vmax? That's a genuine question rather than a dig.Output Flange said:
This surprised me - as the manufacturer of this, don't you have an obligation (legal or moral) to test that it doesn't all come apart at vmax? That's a genuine question rather than a dig.
Fair comment, can see where you're coming from, however if you buy a car from any manufacturer that is designed & built for road use (which this is) normally you would expect that to be within the parameters of the country it's sold in (Vmax = 70mph). You will not find any manufacturer that will guarantee their cars for any form of motorsport or track use - you'll normally find a disclaimer to that effect in the handbook along the lines of "not guaranteed for rallying, racing, or any form of motorsport blah blah blah". There are simply too many factors controlled by the driver under these situations. For instance I could do 1000's of track miles without a problem then some numpty jumps in & puts it across a kerb at 150MPH, I'm certainly not guaranteeing the front wing to remain in place in such a situation! If they can't manage it with a real F1 car & carbon fibre I don't think I can with fibreglass & steel!
If someone wants to take their car to Germany & belt it down the Autobahn (only legal under certain circumstances) then there's no reason for it to come to bits, (providing of course they've not damaged a tyre or similar at some previous point.............) but track use is a whole different ball game.
I think a lot of people take massive speeds from modern cars without actually thinking "what happens if ...........", I enjoy being a nutter as much as the next bloke (you could probably guess that from the car!
) but I do have a certain sense of self preservation!I get your comment about track use, but:
Obviously you've found 16 people who don't share my concern. I'm just surprised that as someone selling a car of your own design you don't have an obligation to have tested it to its full potential.
Russ Bost said:
If someone wants to take their car to Germany & belt it down the Autobahn (only legal under certain circumstances) then there's no reason for it to come to bits, (providing of course they've not damaged a tyre or similar at some previous point.............) but track use is a whole different ball game.
you're selling a car with big wings on it, without knowing what effect that has. It could become completely unstable at 120mph (or it might not), but the fact that you've not tested it would concern me as a customer.Obviously you've found 16 people who don't share my concern. I'm just surprised that as someone selling a car of your own design you don't have an obligation to have tested it to its full potential.
Output Flange said:
you're selling a car with big wings on it, without knowing what effect that has. It could become completely unstable at 120mph (or it might not), but the fact that you've not tested it would concern me as a customer.
Obviously you've found 16 people who don't share my concern. I'm just surprised that as someone selling a car of your own design you don't have an obligation to have tested it to its full potential.
I didn't say I'd not tested it at speed, I said I'd not had it up to 160MPH!Obviously you've found 16 people who don't share my concern. I'm just surprised that as someone selling a car of your own design you don't have an obligation to have tested it to its full potential.
The wings, if set correctly, can only generate downforce, they are a "proper" aerofoil, the car is flat floored & again, providing ride heights are set correctly this will also generate substantial downforce, as will the rear diffuser. I have absolutely no control of how people set these paramaters, I can only make recommendations. However ANY car with a flat floor doing significantly over 100mph is going to become an aeroplane if it gets launched & gets air under the flat floor, have a word with Mark Webber about it, he seems to have more experience than most!
I can say with confidence that the car is completely stable (to the point where you can take your hands off the steering wheel, tho' that's not a recommendation!) at around 135 - 140MPH, but once you get over those sort of speeds I don't think any car is entirely safe & it is very much a case of being responsible for yourself in such situations - as I said b4, I think people get very blase about high speeds in modern cars, once you're significantly the wrong side of the ton it takes only a very minor driver error to turn fun into a monster accident.
Further, I can't stop a customer sticking a more powerful engine in & taking the car to stupid speeds. For the IVA test they ask for a maximum speed - I fill in 119mph, I know the car is perfectly safe at that speed providing you don't do something daft with it.
t from it and I give it a big thumbs upHave seen your cars mentioned more than a couple of time here on PH.
But one thing I haven't figured out yet, though I'm not knocking your craftmanship, as I'm pretty sure the mechanical parts works as they should.
But, why you haven't there been put more 'effort' into the bodywork, making it more rounded and less boxy?
I'm pretty sure the looks could be improved quite a lot and make it seem more like the real thing. That coupled with a staggered wheel set up on some small wheels with big meaty tyres on it would certainly improve the looks side of it!
But one thing I haven't figured out yet, though I'm not knocking your craftmanship, as I'm pretty sure the mechanical parts works as they should.
But, why you haven't there been put more 'effort' into the bodywork, making it more rounded and less boxy?
I'm pretty sure the looks could be improved quite a lot and make it seem more like the real thing. That coupled with a staggered wheel set up on some small wheels with big meaty tyres on it would certainly improve the looks side of it!
James Dean said:
Have seen your cars mentioned more than a couple of time here on PH.
But one thing I haven't figured out yet, though I'm not knocking your craftmanship, as I'm pretty sure the mechanical parts works as they should.
But, why you haven't there been put more 'effort' into the bodywork, making it more rounded and less boxy?
I'm pretty sure the looks could be improved quite a lot and make it seem more like the real thing. That coupled with a staggered wheel set up on some small wheels with big meaty tyres on it would certainly improve the looks side of it!
Unfortunately it's very much in the eye of the beholder - we're in the process of producing some rather more curvy sidepods - I put a thread on Locostbuilders a while back with some pics & asking for opinions, I got quite a few ideas regarding how the sidepods could be improved, but the last comment on there IIRC was to the effect that when it's driving down the road to the casual observer it's going to look like an F1 car either way, why change what you've got!!!! So you can't please everybody.But one thing I haven't figured out yet, though I'm not knocking your craftmanship, as I'm pretty sure the mechanical parts works as they should.
But, why you haven't there been put more 'effort' into the bodywork, making it more rounded and less boxy?
I'm pretty sure the looks could be improved quite a lot and make it seem more like the real thing. That coupled with a staggered wheel set up on some small wheels with big meaty tyres on it would certainly improve the looks side of it!
Much of it is down to budget, I'd happily produce different bodywork for a customer, but he has to be prepared to foot the bill, if we went on to take moulds from that bodywork obviously the customer would see some reimbursement. Again re the wheels, how deep are your pockets? The car is already on the widest wheels you can get (7.5" front & 9" rear) without resorting to either 18" wheels, which I feel are simply too big, or a 3 piece rim, which is very expensive. Even if you go to a 3 piece rim you can't readily buy wider tyres in either 16 or 17" than I'm already fitting (225 front & 245 or 255 rear), if you go down to a 15" split rim or steel banded wheels you can get some monster (335 IIRC) wide tyres from the States, but they are aimed at the dune buggy market so I wouldn't anticipate them actually having any grip!
So, as you can see perhaps not as simple as you might think, if I had the budget of a T1 Caparro I think I could build something that would be faster, better looking & more practical whilst still retaining the WoW! factor. However I don't think they've sold many .....................
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