89' Toyota GT-Four Lightweight
Discussion
Update - ish time
Spent this morning/early afternoon at LRS today, didn't have anything too specific to go for but was curious to see Warners workshop and have a discussion about a few of the smaller changes to be made. Warner kindly took the time to show me around, his unit is a lot bigger than I first thought with some very tasty machinery inside. the tour continued to see a BDC drfit Volvo estate which has a BMW V8 in it which sounds amazing and a chat to the owner which was good.
I got a chance to see my engine ready and waiting to go in next week and a 4 paddle clutch which Warner is having refurbed with new paddle material. Also saw my brakes from the the donor 185 there, they look bloody huge, the thing should stop well.
Also saw some very business looking suspension that's being fitted and I'm having a whiteline arb put on too.
Was nice to see the LW again and looking forward to a possible delivery date of next Friday, not too far away
Given the engine rebuild; the CS bonnet, charge cooler setup and TTE lamp pod will have to wait but that's not the end of the world.
It should go, handle and stop nicely when it's done
Spent this morning/early afternoon at LRS today, didn't have anything too specific to go for but was curious to see Warners workshop and have a discussion about a few of the smaller changes to be made. Warner kindly took the time to show me around, his unit is a lot bigger than I first thought with some very tasty machinery inside. the tour continued to see a BDC drfit Volvo estate which has a BMW V8 in it which sounds amazing and a chat to the owner which was good.
I got a chance to see my engine ready and waiting to go in next week and a 4 paddle clutch which Warner is having refurbed with new paddle material. Also saw my brakes from the the donor 185 there, they look bloody huge, the thing should stop well.
Also saw some very business looking suspension that's being fitted and I'm having a whiteline arb put on too.
Was nice to see the LW again and looking forward to a possible delivery date of next Friday, not too far away
Given the engine rebuild; the CS bonnet, charge cooler setup and TTE lamp pod will have to wait but that's not the end of the world.
It should go, handle and stop nicely when it's done
engine waiting to be run in
hard to get perspective on the discs/calipers (they're huuuge) but here we see a front 4 pot complete with rusty disc and a rear 2 pot to the left of the shot.
The discs are going to be skimmed to ensure they're smooth and straight and new pads are going in the rears. Notice the disc has been machined to accept a 5X100 pcd, will be a little bit of a potch when it comes to renew them but thankfully they won't have to be machined/replaced that often
and the paddle clutch which will be re surfaced before being fitted
hard to get perspective on the discs/calipers (they're huuuge) but here we see a front 4 pot complete with rusty disc and a rear 2 pot to the left of the shot.
The discs are going to be skimmed to ensure they're smooth and straight and new pads are going in the rears. Notice the disc has been machined to accept a 5X100 pcd, will be a little bit of a potch when it comes to renew them but thankfully they won't have to be machined/replaced that often
and the paddle clutch which will be re surfaced before being fitted
Edited by squareflops on Tuesday 18th June 16:56
Edited by squareflops on Sunday 30th June 18:54
Cheers Chunt - I have considered it. There's a few reasons why I don't think I'll go for it.
The more efficient charge cooler (or inter heater as you refer to it
) system is more in keeping with the period of the car as it will be when it's done; the CS/RC and TTE Celicas (making a very lose connection) all ran charge cooler setups rather than front mounts so the LW will be more 'period'
Front mounts are more suited (in my mind) to the bodykit/sound install/dropped to the ground clique. It's a bit yo for me.
It adds weight to forward of the front axle. Not a huge amount admittedly but these are known for their under-steer as it is so I'm reluctant add even more weight to the very front of the car.
This next point is an unlikely but I saw a rally (stage prepped and I've seen it over Epynt recently) Four whilst at Warners yesterday that made me think also. That car had a front mount and at some point it had taken a large hit to the front bumper that had crushed the core quite badly. Mine is unlikely to be ever be 'competitively' driven but the core will be the first solid thing that gets hit if I decide to stuff it into something immovable
The charge cooler setup sees consistently controlled temps up to around 300/350hp by all accounts from the research that has been done on them, I'll be over the moon if I'm running 280, plus mine won't get driven under high load for extended periods - almost ever.
The inter warmer moniker can really refer to the air to air top mount of the non CS/RC 185 GT-Fours. They really are worse than useless..
The more efficient charge cooler (or inter heater as you refer to it
) system is more in keeping with the period of the car as it will be when it's done; the CS/RC and TTE Celicas (making a very lose connection) all ran charge cooler setups rather than front mounts so the LW will be more 'period'Front mounts are more suited (in my mind) to the bodykit/sound install/dropped to the ground clique. It's a bit yo for me.
It adds weight to forward of the front axle. Not a huge amount admittedly but these are known for their under-steer as it is so I'm reluctant add even more weight to the very front of the car.
This next point is an unlikely but I saw a rally (stage prepped and I've seen it over Epynt recently) Four whilst at Warners yesterday that made me think also. That car had a front mount and at some point it had taken a large hit to the front bumper that had crushed the core quite badly. Mine is unlikely to be ever be 'competitively' driven but the core will be the first solid thing that gets hit if I decide to stuff it into something immovable
The charge cooler setup sees consistently controlled temps up to around 300/350hp by all accounts from the research that has been done on them, I'll be over the moon if I'm running 280, plus mine won't get driven under high load for extended periods - almost ever.
The inter warmer moniker can really refer to the air to air top mount of the non CS/RC 185 GT-Fours. They really are worse than useless..
not pics of the setup at the moment, will do next Friday though 
Good question on the size of the heat exchanger, the top mount is roughly the same dimensions as the ata setup that sits atop the engine and it also has a pre rad that sits behind (I recall?) the main radiator that is maybe half the size of the engine rad. If I'm wrong someone may correct me I know there's a few boys sculking around here from the GT4OC.
Being a 185 a2a 'fan' this will be my first foray into the charge cooler setup.
As a reference to how bad the a2a setup is I remember pulling into a petrol station off the motorway on a warm day, it sat there super heating the air for a few seconds and when pulling off and rejoining the M4 I was convinced the thing had blown the turbo hose off or something, the air was so warm going into the engine it must have been utilizing about 60hp
as I drove through the cooler air it picked up and returned to normal after quarter mile.
Pretty boring story but highlights how susceptible that setup is to engine temps and atmospheric conditions
Good question on the size of the heat exchanger, the top mount is roughly the same dimensions as the ata setup that sits atop the engine and it also has a pre rad that sits behind (I recall?) the main radiator that is maybe half the size of the engine rad. If I'm wrong someone may correct me I know there's a few boys sculking around here from the GT4OC.
Being a 185 a2a 'fan' this will be my first foray into the charge cooler setup.
As a reference to how bad the a2a setup is I remember pulling into a petrol station off the motorway on a warm day, it sat there super heating the air for a few seconds and when pulling off and rejoining the M4 I was convinced the thing had blown the turbo hose off or something, the air was so warm going into the engine it must have been utilizing about 60hp
as I drove through the cooler air it picked up and returned to normal after quarter mile.Pretty boring story but highlights how susceptible that setup is to engine temps and atmospheric conditions
Well, just footed for a whiteline rear adjustable arb which will stiffen the back end up; for junctions and roundabouts. a charge-cooler setup to keep the intake temps cool and consistent (really don't want to spend x on an engine rebuild and have it det) and a TTE 4 lamp rally pod to go on the CS fibreglass (will save bout 20kg off the front I think) bonnet!
But I may not be able to afford to drive it after this final expenditure
But I may not be able to afford to drive it after this final expenditure
non update.
Car should be ready this week, very early next week. Speaking to the builder I've opted to go for electric power steering also. This setup uses the motor from a... Peugeot 106 i think he said. He runs these on all his rally car builds as they get rid of the very heavy, 30 kg+ oe power steering setup, all the lines etc and the pump itself is replaced of course. Physically removing the pump frees up a lot of space at the back of the block next to the gearbox which in turn makes cam belt changes much quicker; saving on labour.
Another benefit is the pump as standard works off the engine rpms. I've experienced the downside of this myself as I'm sure most Celica owners have, as the revs drop the steering becomes very heavy; almost solid. This normally happens during a high spirited drive when you're going for another gear (normally during hard cornering) not the best time to lose your steering. The feedback is the electric system is slightly more weighted than standard also so increases feel and feedback, and that's good as standard so I'll look forward to that.
In summary
big weight saving
linear/weighted steering
engine bay tidy up with increased access to stuff
not expensive
In other news we were discussing other weight saving, the fiberglass bonnet will save about 20 kg, I'll need to factor in the heavier charge cooling system though and around 7 kg for the lamp pod. With the standard power steering gone overall it should be - lighter!
And then he mentioned the carbon single piece prop shafts he has made and shipped over from California. Another 60/70 kg saving. Might have to save up for one of those though
Pictures to follow this week when he starts ripping it apart
OH, It's first 'event' will be Rally Day @ Combe. Will be sat on the Lewis Rally Sport / GT4OC stand by Quarry
Car should be ready this week, very early next week. Speaking to the builder I've opted to go for electric power steering also. This setup uses the motor from a... Peugeot 106 i think he said. He runs these on all his rally car builds as they get rid of the very heavy, 30 kg+ oe power steering setup, all the lines etc and the pump itself is replaced of course. Physically removing the pump frees up a lot of space at the back of the block next to the gearbox which in turn makes cam belt changes much quicker; saving on labour.
Another benefit is the pump as standard works off the engine rpms. I've experienced the downside of this myself as I'm sure most Celica owners have, as the revs drop the steering becomes very heavy; almost solid. This normally happens during a high spirited drive when you're going for another gear (normally during hard cornering) not the best time to lose your steering. The feedback is the electric system is slightly more weighted than standard also so increases feel and feedback, and that's good as standard so I'll look forward to that.
In summary
big weight saving
linear/weighted steering
engine bay tidy up with increased access to stuff
not expensive
In other news we were discussing other weight saving, the fiberglass bonnet will save about 20 kg, I'll need to factor in the heavier charge cooling system though and around 7 kg for the lamp pod. With the standard power steering gone overall it should be - lighter!
And then he mentioned the carbon single piece prop shafts he has made and shipped over from California. Another 60/70 kg saving. Might have to save up for one of those though
Pictures to follow this week when he starts ripping it apart
OH, It's first 'event' will be Rally Day @ Combe. Will be sat on the Lewis Rally Sport / GT4OC stand by Quarry
Edited by squareflops on Sunday 30th June 19:27
squareflops said:
It's had:
mirror glazed crank surround
1thou overbore to remove oval
crank ground and lightened & balanced with flywheel and rods pistons
new rings
full acl race bearings and thrust
Not in that picture it hasn't. mirror glazed crank surround
1thou overbore to remove oval
crank ground and lightened & balanced with flywheel and rods pistons
new rings
full acl race bearings and thrust
What is 'mirror glazed crank surround'?
You over bored and aren't fitting new pistons?
One thou" = .025mm, it isn't possible to bore this little and it wouldn't take out any appreciable ovality or wear.
I think you may be relaying the info slightly incorrectly or someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes a bit - be careful.
Edited by Evoluzione on Monday 1st July 10:47
Evoluzione said:
Not in that picture it hasn't.
What is 'mirror glazed crank surround'?
You over bored and aren't fitting new pistons?
One thou" = .025mm, it isn't possible to bore this little and it wouldn't take out any appreciable ovality or wear.
I think you may be relaying the info slightly incorrectly or someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes a bit - be careful.
Or missed a '0' and it's a 10 thou bore, which is conceivable. The bores in that pic look scuffed to me though, and certainly not freshly honed!What is 'mirror glazed crank surround'?
You over bored and aren't fitting new pistons?
One thou" = .025mm, it isn't possible to bore this little and it wouldn't take out any appreciable ovality or wear.
I think you may be relaying the info slightly incorrectly or someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes a bit - be careful.
Edited by Evoluzione on Monday 1st July 10:47
Evo, I've had a response and am satisfied all is good.
To address this point though
Anyway; It's being pulled into the workshop very soon so should fingers crossed be with me in a short while
To address this point though
Evoluzione said:
You over bored and aren't fitting new pistons?
it certainly has had new pistons, they look quite shiny to me Anyway; It's being pulled into the workshop very soon so should fingers crossed be with me in a short while
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