Building "Thor"

[e600]

ARAF said:

I think the problem is finding one old enough. Trucks were more like re-bodied cars in the era that Storer is looking at.

Fire engines weren't. How about American lLa France, and for more man points it's twin chain drive

[Steve_D]

JonRB said:

I know this is probably a heretical suggestion, but since you are planning on a rebody, and since all you really need is a strong chassis & running gear to take the weight of that enormous engine, have you considered using a van or small truck for the chassis?

Have to agree a 7.5 ton truck chassis would be a much better starting point.
It would come with brakes, steering and chassis capable of dealing with the weight and power.

Steve

[PanzerCommander]

If you are planning a re-body An American pickup truck chassis might work, it’s certainly heavy duty enough and given what they generally weigh fully loaded (I think the max weight of a 2002 F150 is 4.5 tonnes for example) the brakes (with decent disks and pads) would be more than up to the job. The axle and steering should be more than man enough for the job too, and because they are a body on chassis there is no altering the monocoque to fall foul of (more points retained).

Naturally you want an older one so that you don't have to think about the emissions regulations.

[Hooli]

But a RR engine deserves to be in a RR.

[rolando]

Hooli said:

But a RR engine deserves to be in a RR.

Which neatly takes us back to the PII chassis.

Surely there's enough £ in the PIII to go a long way towards funding the the parts to make the PII chassis a practical proposition?

[Storer]

All interesting comments so keep them coming.

This evening I had the first chance to get the Phantom III up on the lift.

Oh dear, what a bodge job the engine change is. Bits of channel and angle iron welded onto the chassis with bird-st welds and the pin/bush oiling system butchered to run around the mods.

There are oil leaks everywhere. Diff, gearbox (everywhere), engine and steering box. The exhaust is a lash-up, more bird-st, clamps and rubber hose!!!!!!!.
The oil leaks have protected most of the chassis but one body support is corroded.

A reasonable condition Phantom III with a Barker limousine body and original V12 engine is worth about £45 to 50K. I would guess this engine reduces the value by at least 10K.

Now I am unsure what to do as this changes the amount of work required (and therefore cost) to get the car into a good useable state as a standard Phantom III.

The Barker limousine body is the least valuable style. A Park Ward Continental is north of £100K.

The chassis looks stronger than the Phantom II and has the advantage of independent coil spring front suspension.

There is the La France as a possibility but I would still like to build a Rolls Royce Special.


Paul

[ARAF]

Storer said:

All interesting comments so keep them coming.

This evening I had the first chance to get the Phantom III up on the lift.

Oh dear, what a bodge job the engine change is. Bits of channel and angle iron welded onto the chassis with bird-st welds and the pin/bush oiling system butchered to run around the mods.

There are oil leaks everywhere. Diff, gearbox (everywhere), engine and steering box. The exhaust is a lash-up, more bird-st, clamps and rubber hose!!!!!!!.
The oil leaks have protected most of the chassis but one body support is corroded.

A reasonable condition Phantom III with a Barker limousine body and original V12 engine is worth about £45 to 50K. I would guess this engine reduces the value by at least 10K.

Now I am unsure what to do as this changes the amount of work required (and therefore cost) to get the car into a good useable state as a standard Phantom III.

The Barker limousine body is the least valuable style. A Park Ward Continental is north of £100K.

The chassis looks stronger than the Phantom II and has the advantage of independent coil spring front suspension.

There is the La France as a possibility but I would still like to build a Rolls Royce Special.


Paul

I don't suppose there's someone with a good Phantom III engine and chassis, that needs new coachwork? I'm guessing that you can't bear to break the car, but if the body went in one lump, and you then had the rolling chassis, that would be like saving two cars from one.

[andygtt]

Build what you want to build rather than what's worth money at the end, I get the impression money isn't the deciding factor for the build?... Otherwise just invest your money more wisely.

It's a hobby, the entire point is to build exactly what YOU want!

[Storer]

ARAF said:

I don't suppose there's someone with a good Phantom III engine and chassis, that needs new coachwork? I'm guessing that you can't bear to break the car, but if the body went in one lump, and you then had the rolling chassis, that would be like saving two cars from one.

I am sure the body is worth saving and there may be someone who needs a new body.

The whole car could be saved but to be worth the expenditure and time it would need a good original V12 engine. But they are a bit like hen's teeth. This is a car that will cost more than it is worth when finished.

You don't build a 27 litre V12 special to make money! You do it because (you hope) you can!

My issue is that I don't want to 'destroy' a perfectly good saveable car to do it.


Paul

[Megaflow]

Storer said:

I am sure the body is worth saving and there may be someone who needs a new body.

The whole car could be saved but to be worth the expenditure and time it would need a good original V12 engine. But they are a bit like hen's teeth. This is a car that will cost more than it is worth when finished.

You don't build a 27 litre V12 special to make money! You do it because (you hope) you can!

My issue is that I don't want to 'destroy' a perfectly good saveable car to do it.


Paul

Sounds to me like it already has been. Non original engine and gearbox installation to highly questionable standard.

Somebody will either break it for parts or put back to original spec. It sounds to me like the later is unlikely, cost far outweighing the value of the car, parts availability, etc.

The elephant in the room is how long will it be before the car rises in value to a point where returning it to original spec becomes viable, much less than ~5 years and it might be worth leaving it, anything above that and too many other variables come it to the mix, economy, what condition it will be in at said time, parts availability only ever getting worse, etc.

IMO of course...

[anonymous-user]

^^^^ how "rare" is the donor car you now have? If it's rare, then even in poor condition it is worth keeping original. If many other better examples exist, then the world is loosing much less if you cut it up?

I you could sell the body to someone in need, then i agree that the rolling chassis becomes a sensible place to start, having already been "butchered" a bit to fit the previous "wrong" engine into it.

[Hooli]

Storer said:

My issue is that I don't want to 'destroy' a perfectly good saveable car to do it.

That is exactly the problem I can imagine having if I was lucky enough to have a project like yours. Mind it sounds like it isn't a decent car anyway, so your only 'restoring' to a different spec as it were.

[Lefty]

Remember, the bodywork of your car might keep another Phantom on the road which could otherwise be butchered/broken for parts!

Edited by Lefty on Friday 27th June 20:27

[Storer]

My Phantom III with a Barker Limousine body is not common but it is also not liked by the aficionado's. The big money is paid for the Continentals or Sports Tourer'.

The body could be useful for someone as could the engine and maybe the gearbox.

I have asked a local vintage car restoration business owner to come and look the car over and give me his opinion early next week which should help to clarify things a bit.


Paul

[Storer]

Well my local vintage car restorer has had a look.........and thinks that the Phantom 3 is restorable..............but not at a cost anywhere approaching the final value. He thinks that what we can easily see will take the cost way above current market values and is concerned about what we can't see.
He, like me feels that the body is not a "nice, desirable" design, but might be of interest to another owner wishing to restore a Phantom. However, I may hang onto the body so that when/if I ever sell the car it can go with the original body if the buyer wants it.

So, it looks like the Phantom 3 will be the chassis for 'Thor'.

Next step is to complete UK registration which I am currently working on.


Paul

[ARAF]

Back on track.

The size of that body, you could have taken the seats out, and used it as your spray booth.

[Megaflow]

Storer said:

Well my local vintage car restorer has had a look.........and thinks that the Phantom 3 is restorable..............but not at a cost anywhere approaching the final value. He thinks that what we can easily see will take the cost way above current market values and is concerned about what we can't see.
He, like me feels that the body is not a "nice, desirable" design, but might be of interest to another owner wishing to restore a Phantom. However, I may hang onto the body so that when/if I ever sell the car it can go with the original body if the buyer wants it.

So, it looks like the Phantom 3 will be the chassis for 'Thor'.

Next step is to complete UK registration which I am currently working on.


Paul

[AstonZagato]

Storer said:

Well my local vintage car restorer has had a look.........and thinks that the Phantom 3 is restorable..............but not at a cost anywhere approaching the final value. He thinks that what we can easily see will take the cost way above current market values and is concerned about what we can't see.
He, like me feels that the body is not a "nice, desirable" design, but might be of interest to another owner wishing to restore a Phantom. However, I may hang onto the body so that when/if I ever sell the car it can go with the original body if the buyer wants it.

So, it looks like the Phantom 3 will be the chassis for 'Thor'.

Next step is to complete UK registration which I am currently working on.


Paul

I must live near you - was this your Ultima I saw? There is a vintage restorer in my village too. #stalker

[Storer]

AstonZagato said:

I must live near you - was this your Ultima I saw? There is a vintage restorer in my village too. #stalker

May have been mine. Where did you see it?



Paul

[AstonZagato]

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