Building "Thor"

[AstonZagato]

Storer said:

Where to start.

I have changed the plan a bit, well quite a bit!

My RR Phantom II chassis is up for sale, as will the Phantom III be soon.
Sounds like I have given up?

Not yet, just going in a slightly different direction.
I have purchased a Range Rover Carmichael Fire engine. It is a 6x4 so has 3 axles....



It will need some stretching (in both directions) but is will have 6 wheel disc brakes, probably air suspension, power steering, etc.

Oh, and it might look a bit like this


I have lots of other stuff going on so progress will be sloooooooow but when there is something to report I will post.

Paul

I admired your fire engine while walking the dog over the last couple of weekends.

[RoverP6B]

Sorry, there has never been a good-looking six-wheeled car. The RR is a piece of history in itself. Butchering it would be shameful.

[chuntington101]

Would it not be easier to build your own chassis around whatever wheels brake axels you want? I know you then need a body but you are probably going to have to redesign / mod what ever you go for anyway, so its doesn't really matter what you choose (hmmmmm V12 mini anyone?).

[Hooli]

Have you seen how weak a RR axle is? & the amount of work involved to make a 6x4 into a 6x6? I can't see it working without totally different axles etc & at that point why butcher a rareish old RR?

[guru_1071]

here you go

not sure a meteor would fit, but its certainly swoopy enough from the outside!

http://www.prewarcar.com/index.php?option=com_cara...

[Hugo a Gogo]

I'd be tempted by a strong and simple truck ladder chassis from a 7.5 tonner, beam front axle, solid rear, twin wheels

then build a roadster body on that

[irocfan]

guru_1071 said:

here you go

not sure a meteor would fit, but its certainly swoopy enough from the outside!

http://www.prewarcar.com/index.php?option=com_cara...

got to be honest to me that looks lovely - Mrs Iroc on the other hand isn't as much of a fan!!

[JonRB]

guru_1071 said:

here you go

not sure a meteor would fit, but its certainly swoopy enough from the outside!

http://www.prewarcar.com/index.php?option=com_cara...

Oh my goodness; that is absolutely gorgeous. Mind you, I'm a huge fan of Streamline Moderne and the whole Retro-Futuristic vibe.

[Storer]

RoverP6B said:

Those 6-wheel Range Rovers are very rare and worthy of preservation. Turning it into a 6-wheel Merlin hot-rod will just result in something tacky...

I knew this might cause some controversy as there are plenty of Land Rover fans out there.

Not sure how you define 'rare' but there were over 400 of these Carmichael fire engines made and a number of other 6x4 Range Rover derivatives (many sent to the middle east).
This particular example was for sale for quite a while, so others had a chance to 'save' it.
It looks reasonable from a distance but the body is quite poor close up. Rot and very poor repairs are evident everywhere.
I understand the desire to save a vehicle that can be used like an early Range Rover. However, a reasonably late model Fire Engine only has one use (strangely as a fire engine) so a few good examples can be seen at shows but very little use other than that.

As for 6 wheel cars looking good, well that is probably a matter of personal taste.


Paul

[Storer]

crofty1984 said:

Storer said:

one of the two 27 litre V12 Meteor engines I own.

You win. Don't know what, or what the prize is, but you are definitely the winner.

Time has moved on since I posted that.
I now have six of them.........

Paul

PS. Does the prize get bigger now!

[Storer]

guru_1071 said:

here you go

not sure a meteor would fit, but its certainly swoopy enough from the outside!

http://www.prewarcar.com/index.php?option=com_cara...

I had seen that car before.
I think it would look cool in the US but probably not over here.

Paul

[Storer]

Hugo a Gogo said:

I'd be tempted by a strong and simple truck ladder chassis from a 7.5 tonner, beam front axle, solid rear, twin wheels

then build a roadster body on that

The problem with the truck chassis is that it would need to meet HGV/LGV regulations and be tested by VOSA rather than a local MOT garage.
Also, truck chassis do twist, which they are designed to do.

The rear Range Rover axles used on the Carmichael can be relatively easily linked together as there is only a plate on the back of the middle axle and you can buy upgraded parts from the off road racing fraternity. The engine will also need to be geared up by 2x to 2.5x and the torque reduced accordingly.

Paul

[RoverP6B]

The Range Rover is still useful as an off-roader, and sufficiently rare to be worth keeping original. However, I can't see the chassis or axles being up to that engine...

[Lefty]

There are plenty of 300-400lb/ft defenders out there with upgraded boxes/diffs/axles but what's the torque figure from the meteor? Has to be 1000lb/ft+ ?

[leglessAlex]

Lefty said:

There are plenty of 300-400lb/ft defenders out there with upgraded boxes/diffs/axles but what's the torque figure from the meteor? Has to be 1000lb/ft+ ?

Charlie Broomfield's Meteor engined Rover SD1 makes 2102nm... at the wheels.

[RoverP6B]

Which equates to 1550lbft at the wheels, about 1820 at the crank.

[Hooli]

Storer said:

The rear Range Rover axles used on the Carmichael can be relatively easily linked together as there is only a plate on the back of the middle axle and you can buy upgraded parts from the off road racing fraternity. The engine will also need to be geared up by 2x to 2.5x and the torque reduced accordingly.

If it's a plate on the back of the axle then it's a Rover diff. The stronger LR axles had Sailsburys that fitted from the rear. A normal Rover V8 can eat the Rover diff anytime you want it too, I can't see it lasting long with a Meteor turning it. Not to mention half shafts that used to strip without even selecting low range in my old diesel Discovery.

There is a reason a lot of specced up LR/RRs have Toyota axles grafted on.

[chuntington101]

RoverP6B said:

Which equates to 1550lbft at the wheels, about 1820 at the crank.

No, that's at the gearbox on his car. It runs through a 3:1 step-up box BEFORE the gearbox. So the actual engine torque is closer to 4500lbsft!

[Storer]

Ok chaps. We are getting carried away here and the torque info is not correct.

A Meteor MK4BH engine is 550 to 600hp and about 1500ftlbs torque at the crank. The MK4B1 with it's roller cams is nearer 700hp as it can rev higher (Up to 3000rpm from 2600rpm). The torque is virtually unchanged.

Charlie's engine has had work on it's heads to improve the flow so that he can add boost for more power. He is now at 750hp but not sure of torque. Charlie is a mate and I have supplied him with some parts from my scrap engines to help get his going again.

Regarding using the Range Rover. Thousands of them have been built and there will always be a limited demand for older one's (which had very poor build quality and reliability, I used to drive an early 1970's version in the early 80's).
I quite expect to have to change parts to take the torque but it is likely to be around 500 to 600ftlbs once I have increased crank speed by up to 3 times.
It will be an auto box with a torque converter that will 'cushion' the driveline a little. I may have to use different axles but is that an issue?

This build will be a journey of discovery, learning, trial and probably error with the finished product not to everyone's taste. I will do it because I want to and it adds a bit of a challenge to life.


Paul

[No Sound]

Hi Paul
Great project this and do understand the thinking process behind your ideas but you need to settle and focus on your path that you have now decide to take and start the build as many other problems will surface as you make journey as a car builder.
Andy