Peugeot 205 Saloon Libre - RWD Space-Frame Silhouette Racer
Discussion
Trtj said:
That spaceframe looks colossal. Any idea of the weight of the frame alone? You're using catia so i expect an answer to say hmmm 3dp!
The space-frame and sills weigh 122.914kg. 
I want it to come in under 600kg with driver.. currently it's at 499kg with me, excluding bodywork, exhaust system, cooling, fuel and electrical systems, and floor / bulkheads & aero. Squeezing that all in to 100kg will be a pretty tall order!
Phil - They're 2-way adjustable. I figured I'll have enough variables to tune to warrant not spending an extra 1.5k on low speed compression! I can always upgrade the internals later.
CamMoreRon said:
Phil - They're 2-way adjustable. I figured I'll have enough variables to tune to warrant not spending an extra 1.5k on low speed compression! I can always upgrade the internals later.
The single adjuster can be modified to give more low speed authority at the expense of high speed if you want to go that way anyhow, I've done it to them before.Although saying that, he's sorting me a nice low/high speed compression canister for the front of the buggy atm
Max_Torque said:
Not sure how i've missed this one till now!
Nice to see another rwd saloon based special ;-)
Now which car is better. Max's Seat rally spec, or the 205 space frame sprint car?Nice to see another rwd saloon based special ;-)
There's only one way to find out!
Wait 'till they are finished.
Seriously though there are some cracking builds on PH at the moment, feels like there should be some sort of "PH build thread" autotest, hillclimb, shootout day.
Munter said:
Max_Torque said:
Not sure how i've missed this one till now!
Nice to see another rwd saloon based special ;-)
Now which car is better. Max's Seat rally spec, or the 205 space frame sprint car?Nice to see another rwd saloon based special ;-)
There's only one way to find out!
Wait 'till they are finished.
Seriously though there are some cracking builds on PH at the moment, feels like there should be some sort of "PH build thread" autotest, hillclimb, shootout day.
CamMoreRon said:
Yeah they're both built for very different things. That, and I don't even have an engine yet!
350bhp would be nice, though.. that would be getting on for 600bhp/tonne.
Well, that's gonna slow you down a bit ;-)350bhp would be nice, though.. that would be getting on for 600bhp/tonne.
I did look at going to a partial spaceframe for my Ibiza, but when you look at how well optimised the original monocoque actually is, there is was precious little advantage. However, if you can lower the overall vehicle height, add low level aero, and clothe it in super lightweight body panels then for a race car it makes much more sense!
(and in the back of my mind was the fact that rally cars can hit really quite substantial objects on occasions, and i'd rather sacrifice the shell than me!)
Also, for a rally car, basic "low speed" mechanical traction is important (hence my gearbox being at the back of the car over the drive wheels) whereas a circuit car can use super low ride heights and aero tricks to get good traction (and they don't spend a lot of time in 1st and 2nd gear ;-)
Max_Torque said:
Well, that's gonna slow you down a bit ;-)
I did look at going to a partial spaceframe for my Ibiza, but when you look at how well optimised the original monocoque actually is, there is was precious little advantage. However, if you can lower the overall vehicle height, add low level aero, and clothe it in super lightweight body panels then for a race car it makes much more sense!
(and in the back of my mind was the fact that rally cars can hit really quite substantial objects on occasions, and i'd rather sacrifice the shell than me!)
Also, for a rally car, basic "low speed" mechanical traction is important (hence my gearbox being at the back of the car over the drive wheels) whereas a circuit car can use super low ride heights and aero tricks to get good traction (and they don't spend a lot of time in 1st and 2nd gear ;-)
Yeah the weight saving of a space-frame really isn't that much over a monocoque with a decent roll cage, at least not for saloon cars. The big advantages start coming in the freedom you get over layout and locating certain parts, and that you can design for low weight & CoG height right from the start. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, it's more for other readers!I did look at going to a partial spaceframe for my Ibiza, but when you look at how well optimised the original monocoque actually is, there is was precious little advantage. However, if you can lower the overall vehicle height, add low level aero, and clothe it in super lightweight body panels then for a race car it makes much more sense!
(and in the back of my mind was the fact that rally cars can hit really quite substantial objects on occasions, and i'd rather sacrifice the shell than me!)
Also, for a rally car, basic "low speed" mechanical traction is important (hence my gearbox being at the back of the car over the drive wheels) whereas a circuit car can use super low ride heights and aero tricks to get good traction (and they don't spend a lot of time in 1st and 2nd gear ;-)
For those interested in what it'll look like, this is where my CFD has got me so far:
You wouldn't believe the difference that little roof spoiler makes!
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