Peugeot 205 Saloon Libre - RWD Space-Frame Silhouette Racer
Discussion
CamMoreRon said:
Seanlogie said:
Just found this thread tonight ,building a race car is about the detail and the attention to detail . I've come across a few of these types of projects and this one is by far the most interesting and entertaining and informative by a country mile . My only criticism is that the thread has come to an end for now ..... Haste ye back
Thanks! 
Unfortunately I have no updates for you, and it's unlikely I will be able to get back to it until mid-March / early April! I have 7 working days left at my job and am focusing 100,000,000% of my spare time on getting my business going, so that I can hit the ground running! Once I've got the car moved over to my new unit, got the workshop set up, and got a bit of stability, I'll be hitting the project again hard.
For anyone who is interested, I got my website up and running last night!
http://www.saloonlibre.co.uk/
jiggawhat2k said:
your facebook and twitter links on the site go to something not related to you!
Good luck with the new venture, excited to see the finished pug build.
Thanks for the feedback! Good luck with the new venture, excited to see the finished pug build.
Nice spot.. It's just the ones at the bottom of each page, right? The buttons on the contact page work ok?
Afternoon chaps,
It's been a while since I could work on the 205, so I've had a fair amount of thinking / planning time (always dangerous) and am considering taking the project in a new direction.
My original plan was to go with a 2.0 Duratec turbo at around 350bhp and F/R configuration. Recently I can't stop thinking about ditching IC altogether and re-working the car to be fully electric-powered 4WD. I know that might be a shocking prospect (terrible pun, I'm sorry) but the car is about pushing boundaries and I don't really see IC as much of a challenge or relevance to the build any more!
The benefits would be huge from my perspective as a chassis & suspension designer, as I've been in a constant struggle to package everything for good weight distribution. More than that, though, the challenge of exploring EV tech and pushing things in a direction of considerable relevance to today's rapid progression from IC to EV would be very exciting!
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
It'll be a few more months until things are stable enough to work on the car again, which gives me plenty of time to plan things out!
So.. thoughts?
It's been a while since I could work on the 205, so I've had a fair amount of thinking / planning time (always dangerous) and am considering taking the project in a new direction.
My original plan was to go with a 2.0 Duratec turbo at around 350bhp and F/R configuration. Recently I can't stop thinking about ditching IC altogether and re-working the car to be fully electric-powered 4WD. I know that might be a shocking prospect (terrible pun, I'm sorry) but the car is about pushing boundaries and I don't really see IC as much of a challenge or relevance to the build any more!
The benefits would be huge from my perspective as a chassis & suspension designer, as I've been in a constant struggle to package everything for good weight distribution. More than that, though, the challenge of exploring EV tech and pushing things in a direction of considerable relevance to today's rapid progression from IC to EV would be very exciting!
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
It'll be a few more months until things are stable enough to work on the car again, which gives me plenty of time to plan things out!
So.. thoughts?
whatever floats your boat. . . its clearly a personal challenge for you, and you will learn more by going along a different path for sure. . . good luck either way.
When I saw the topic had a new comment, I thought it would be pics of it painted
But do as you please, im still watching and enjoy seeing what your creating.
When I saw the topic had a new comment, I thought it would be pics of it painted
But do as you please, im still watching and enjoy seeing what your creating.
CamMoreRon said:
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDT2tu03OM8Powering the electric motors with a home made jet engine rather than a battery? Just putting it out there...
CamMoreRon said:
Afternoon chaps,
It's been a while since I could work on the 205, so I've had a fair amount of thinking / planning time (always dangerous) and am considering taking the project in a new direction.
My original plan was to go with a 2.0 Duratec turbo at around 350bhp and F/R configuration. Recently I can't stop thinking about ditching IC altogether and re-working the car to be fully electric-powered 4WD. I know that might be a shocking prospect (terrible pun, I'm sorry) but the car is about pushing boundaries and I don't really see IC as much of a challenge or relevance to the build any more!
The benefits would be huge from my perspective as a chassis & suspension designer, as I've been in a constant struggle to package everything for good weight distribution. More than that, though, the challenge of exploring EV tech and pushing things in a direction of considerable relevance to today's rapid progression from IC to EV would be very exciting!
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
It'll be a few more months until things are stable enough to work on the car again, which gives me plenty of time to plan things out!
So.. thoughts?
I don't think the EV route solves your packaging issue. It arguably just gives you very different problems, mainly a heavy battery and large amount of power electronics. It's been a while since I could work on the 205, so I've had a fair amount of thinking / planning time (always dangerous) and am considering taking the project in a new direction.
My original plan was to go with a 2.0 Duratec turbo at around 350bhp and F/R configuration. Recently I can't stop thinking about ditching IC altogether and re-working the car to be fully electric-powered 4WD. I know that might be a shocking prospect (terrible pun, I'm sorry) but the car is about pushing boundaries and I don't really see IC as much of a challenge or relevance to the build any more!
The benefits would be huge from my perspective as a chassis & suspension designer, as I've been in a constant struggle to package everything for good weight distribution. More than that, though, the challenge of exploring EV tech and pushing things in a direction of considerable relevance to today's rapid progression from IC to EV would be very exciting!
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
It'll be a few more months until things are stable enough to work on the car again, which gives me plenty of time to plan things out!
So.. thoughts?
My main concern would be cost- the EV component market is becoming more competitive, but still hardware is chuffin expensive, increasingly so if you require a greater level of performance/integration than currently available off the shelf.
That aside, anything fast and different is always fun- so why the hell not! YASA's offering:
http://www.yasamotors.com/application-example-driv...
Cheers
Pete
Yoof said:
I don't think the EV route solves your packaging issue. It arguably just gives you very different problems, mainly a heavy battery and large amount of power electronics.
My main concern would be cost- the EV component market is becoming more competitive, but still hardware is chuffin expensive, increasingly so if you require a greater level of performance/integration than currently available off the shelf.
That aside, anything fast and different is always fun- so why the hell not! YASA's offering:
http://www.yasamotors.com/application-example-driv...
Cheers
Pete
Thanks for the flurry of replies & enthusiasm! My main concern would be cost- the EV component market is becoming more competitive, but still hardware is chuffin expensive, increasingly so if you require a greater level of performance/integration than currently available off the shelf.
That aside, anything fast and different is always fun- so why the hell not! YASA's offering:
http://www.yasamotors.com/application-example-driv...
Cheers
Pete
Cost is definitely an issue, so I'll have to do a proper cost analysis of the installation, but my engine & transmission package is something like £15k deep at present and will probably be getting on for £25k all-in, so it's not out of the realms of possibility that I can get a decent motor & battery package for around that money.
YASA motors look brilliant! I've been perving on them for a few weeks, now. I've just contacted them with details of the build & my requirements, so that should be a starting point to gauge the cost of an EV build.
davepoth said:
CamMoreRon said:
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDT2tu03OM8Powering the electric motors with a home made jet engine rather than a battery? Just putting it out there...
That would be insane.. a bit like the Manic Beattie, except no engine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11687nVdzdk
CamMoreRon said:
davepoth said:
CamMoreRon said:
Also, what could be better than an 80's matchbox blasting up the hills / round a track in almost total silence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDT2tu03OM8Powering the electric motors with a home made jet engine rather than a battery? Just putting it out there...
That would be insane.. a bit like the Manic Beattie, except no engine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11687nVdzdk
A four-rotor might solve your packaging problems and give you a bit of a challenge too. A pair of 13B Renesis with a common output shaft? Or something more "custom"!
Food for though:
http://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-294/4-rotor-f...
Edited by ManOpener on Thursday 30th April 15:10
an electric 205 you say........
http://www.gumtree.com/p/peugeot/peugeot-205-cj-ju...
perfect donor car!!!!
http://www.gumtree.com/p/peugeot/peugeot-205-cj-ju...
perfect donor car!!!!
If you're going electric you need to do some homework!
you have 4 main issues to sort out:
1) Traction motor - as you won't be developing your own, broadly your options fall into two categories:
a) Off the shelf motor from the likes of Zytek, Yasa, MESL etc. Hope you have deep pockets!
b) Take existing motor from production EV. You could source something second hand, from a Tesla, etc. By using a separate refrigerant loop, you could cool the proddy motors below zero and get signifianctly more power and torque. Limiting factor would be winding flashover and demag.
For your light weight car, you don't need masses of power, but it reality, you car won't be as fast as it would be with an ICE as most EV's are well under 200kW (LEAF is 80kW, i3 is 125kW etc)
2) Battery - TBH, there's only really on sensible option here, and that is to us an existing EV battery, or at least the cells/sub packs from one. Leaf batteries or Tesla batteries are available s/h - If you can re-jig the packs to increase the dc link voltage, with suitable power silicon (which normally falls into two flavours, 600v and 1200v) you could get a much higher motor output than std.
3) Power electronics - Possibly the hardest part. You probably can't use any production electronics as the integration task would be onerous. (you could use proddy power stages with custom controller). You might end up with a commercial inverter, from the likes of Sevcon etc Reasonably good, but pricey. If you can find some commercial grade 1200V power stages (Semikron Skai2 etc), then it's not impossible to roll your own controller
4) Transmission - Probably the easiest to solve. Either have none (which is not great for performance) or use a basic 4 speed dog box from quaife etc
Let me know if you would like to discuss options, as i have a fair bit of experience in this field ;-)
(if you built a range extender engine / genny, you could save significant costs on your battery, but your system complexity/costs would go through the roof (two sets of inverters, motors, possibly a DC-DC convertor, and a suitable system controller to integrate the whole thing, not to mention cooling, fuel systems etc etc)
you have 4 main issues to sort out:
1) Traction motor - as you won't be developing your own, broadly your options fall into two categories:
a) Off the shelf motor from the likes of Zytek, Yasa, MESL etc. Hope you have deep pockets!
b) Take existing motor from production EV. You could source something second hand, from a Tesla, etc. By using a separate refrigerant loop, you could cool the proddy motors below zero and get signifianctly more power and torque. Limiting factor would be winding flashover and demag.
For your light weight car, you don't need masses of power, but it reality, you car won't be as fast as it would be with an ICE as most EV's are well under 200kW (LEAF is 80kW, i3 is 125kW etc)
2) Battery - TBH, there's only really on sensible option here, and that is to us an existing EV battery, or at least the cells/sub packs from one. Leaf batteries or Tesla batteries are available s/h - If you can re-jig the packs to increase the dc link voltage, with suitable power silicon (which normally falls into two flavours, 600v and 1200v) you could get a much higher motor output than std.
3) Power electronics - Possibly the hardest part. You probably can't use any production electronics as the integration task would be onerous. (you could use proddy power stages with custom controller). You might end up with a commercial inverter, from the likes of Sevcon etc Reasonably good, but pricey. If you can find some commercial grade 1200V power stages (Semikron Skai2 etc), then it's not impossible to roll your own controller
4) Transmission - Probably the easiest to solve. Either have none (which is not great for performance) or use a basic 4 speed dog box from quaife etc
Let me know if you would like to discuss options, as i have a fair bit of experience in this field ;-)
(if you built a range extender engine / genny, you could save significant costs on your battery, but your system complexity/costs would go through the roof (two sets of inverters, motors, possibly a DC-DC convertor, and a suitable system controller to integrate the whole thing, not to mention cooling, fuel systems etc etc)
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 30th April 17:54
Funny you should mention EV requirements...
I deal with this kinda thing daily at work Cam, so parts and such, cabling for HV applications is what Frost EV do.
http://www.frostevsystems.co.uk/
Though you'll probably want parts so. http://www.frostevparts.co.uk/
Cables and such we can knock up within a few weeks, so long as you've got Kostal / Tyco connectors.
I deal with this kinda thing daily at work Cam, so parts and such, cabling for HV applications is what Frost EV do.
http://www.frostevsystems.co.uk/
Though you'll probably want parts so. http://www.frostevparts.co.uk/
Cables and such we can knock up within a few weeks, so long as you've got Kostal / Tyco connectors.
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