Peugeot 205 Saloon Libre - RWD Space-Frame Silhouette Racer
Discussion
Thanks! That's the way I look at it, too.
The styling will remain a surprise until the body shows up (because I'm an a***hole like that) but it will be very tasteful, very 80's, and very cool.
On the gearbox: yes the assembly is very long! A mock-up with my space-frame CAD model shows that it's 200mm too long to fit, but I have a couple of options for making it work.
1: Move the main hoop 100mm forwards and have the diff 100mm behind the axle line - the former *should* be OK, given that I was sitting next to the B-pillar in my space-frame, and that some misalignment of the driveshafts is actually good for the CV joints, but we are going to do a mock-up once the rear floor is removed to see what the interior space will be like for the driver in that configuration. If it's no good, then goto step 2.
2: There is a dry sump tank in the bellhousing that adds roughly 300mm to the length of the assembly. This can be replaced with a custom bellhousing and separate tank, as well as shortening the input shaft, to reduce the overall length significantly. We'd rather not go down this route as it obviously adds expense and removes the "Plug & Play" installation of the FR engine & box, but if needs must then we will do it.
Just in case anyone is wondering: I plan to keep the space-frame and the rolling chassis components, assemble them, then mount the whole thing on the wall at my workshop.
The styling will remain a surprise until the body shows up (because I'm an a***hole like that) but it will be very tasteful, very 80's, and very cool.
On the gearbox: yes the assembly is very long! A mock-up with my space-frame CAD model shows that it's 200mm too long to fit, but I have a couple of options for making it work.
1: Move the main hoop 100mm forwards and have the diff 100mm behind the axle line - the former *should* be OK, given that I was sitting next to the B-pillar in my space-frame, and that some misalignment of the driveshafts is actually good for the CV joints, but we are going to do a mock-up once the rear floor is removed to see what the interior space will be like for the driver in that configuration. If it's no good, then goto step 2.
2: There is a dry sump tank in the bellhousing that adds roughly 300mm to the length of the assembly. This can be replaced with a custom bellhousing and separate tank, as well as shortening the input shaft, to reduce the overall length significantly. We'd rather not go down this route as it obviously adds expense and removes the "Plug & Play" installation of the FR engine & box, but if needs must then we will do it.
Just in case anyone is wondering: I plan to keep the space-frame and the rolling chassis components, assemble them, then mount the whole thing on the wall at my workshop.
First of all as someone who has only just discovered this thread, amazing work.
But I'm confused as to what is happening. So you've sold the 205 because you don't have time for it, but you're starting a new one in a month? Or is this a customer car or something like that? Have you already sold the work you'd completed on the 205? I'm curious how easy it is to find a buyer for a project like that.
EDIT: oops, just saw I missed the bit where you said you're keeping the space frame.
But I'm confused as to what is happening. So you've sold the 205 because you don't have time for it, but you're starting a new one in a month? Or is this a customer car or something like that? Have you already sold the work you'd completed on the 205? I'm curious how easy it is to find a buyer for a project like that.
EDIT: oops, just saw I missed the bit where you said you're keeping the space frame.
Edited by TacoExcellence on Sunday 8th May 07:37
Well after finding the build on build-threads I started reading through the 205 owners club thread. Then when that ended some what briefly you'd imagine I was happy to stumble across this new thread through some google searching!
But to find out you never finished it after 2 days of reading...
I'm guessing the new project never took hold as can't find a thread?
But to find out you never finished it after 2 days of reading...
I'm guessing the new project never took hold as can't find a thread?
Hello again..
Sorry it's taken me so long to get a project thread going for the new build, but I've been so busy with it that I've barely had the time to keep one updated, let alone spread it around!
The new build has been underway since June 2016 and is now approaching the finish, which should be around the end of February. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link directly so if you search the web for "205 Endurance Racer Prototype" you should be able to find the thread.
Now should be a good time to start reading, as the majority of long tedious slogging is out the way and it's almost on its wheels!
Sorry it's taken me so long to get a project thread going for the new build, but I've been so busy with it that I've barely had the time to keep one updated, let alone spread it around!
The new build has been underway since June 2016 and is now approaching the finish, which should be around the end of February. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link directly so if you search the web for "205 Endurance Racer Prototype" you should be able to find the thread.
Now should be a good time to start reading, as the majority of long tedious slogging is out the way and it's almost on its wheels!
Good to see you back and building!
Any chance you could cross-post here?
I am guessing this is the link: http://www.cliosport.net/threads/205-endurance-rac...
Mods shouldn't have a problem with that at all
Will have a read now!
Edited to add: Read it - Brilliant, just brilliant. Have a load of questions and things but will save them to see whether the thread appears on PH
Any chance you could cross-post here?
I am guessing this is the link: http://www.cliosport.net/threads/205-endurance-rac...
Mods shouldn't have a problem with that at all
Will have a read now!
Edited to add: Read it - Brilliant, just brilliant. Have a load of questions and things but will save them to see whether the thread appears on PH
Edited by dom9 on Wednesday 4th January 13:57
Just seen this, awesome build.. whichever way you go I'm sure it'll be interesting
May be worth chatting to the fella who built this if you're still looking into electric power
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
May be worth chatting to the fella who built this if you're still looking into electric power
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Just read this on another forum, as has been already said, just wow. Amazing work.
Did you manage to find a solution for the plumbing that needs to go front to back?
Also, re the door bar X that was modified to gain more room for driver / passenger arms, is there a possibility you could use smaller diameter tube just for that section to free even more space? Not teaching you to suck eggs, just curious?
Keep up the good work, hopefully I can see it in action at Cadwell soon?!
Charlie.
Did you manage to find a solution for the plumbing that needs to go front to back?
Also, re the door bar X that was modified to gain more room for driver / passenger arms, is there a possibility you could use smaller diameter tube just for that section to free even more space? Not teaching you to suck eggs, just curious?
Keep up the good work, hopefully I can see it in action at Cadwell soon?!
Charlie.
CamMoreRon said:
Dom - Thanks! It's unlikely to get a thread on here though as I'd have to leave out so much detail for it to be OK. Feel free to ask anything on the thread or here though!
Is the concern that they'll see it as advertising for your services?It's still your project car, huh? Plenty of professional engineers on here with projects.
It would be a shame to miss out on this project being on PH - will drive traffic, I am sure!
dom9 said:
Is the concern that they'll see it as advertising for your services?
It's still your project car, huh? Plenty of professional engineers on here with projects.
It would be a shame to miss out on this project being on PH - will drive traffic, I am sure!
Yeah the problem is it's a project I'm building for someone else, so it'd be a pretty sparse thread if I left any detail out that could be considered advertising / promotion. I'm really trying not to cross that line at the mo, so I'll have to leave it there!It's still your project car, huh? Plenty of professional engineers on here with projects.
It would be a shame to miss out on this project being on PH - will drive traffic, I am sure!
CHARLESBERG - I could use slightly smaller tube but it's mandated at a minimum size, so it only gains ~2mm.. this way gives around 80mm extra space and is getting pretty popular amongst WRC teams and other high level motorsports - the new Mini WRC has a pretty cool solution that's worth checking out if you haven't already.
The plumbing front-rear is a work in progress but I have a good idea of how to get it working.
Going through new thread now; I don't care what you build, just enjoy watching it come together (your workmanship looks truly exceptional).
In the very nicest way possible it reminds me a lot of Project Binky (look it up if you don't already follow). Exacting engineering with a sense of humour. If you ever find the hours in the day I'm sure your builds would make for a lot of keen Youtube followers too.
In the very nicest way possible it reminds me a lot of Project Binky (look it up if you don't already follow). Exacting engineering with a sense of humour. If you ever find the hours in the day I'm sure your builds would make for a lot of keen Youtube followers too.
Without going back and checking; I think the target weight is around 750kg.
It looks like a lot of the heavy steel is in the floor for a nice, low centre of gravity.
I'm loving it - think it looks awesome and should really shift. Might be worth taking moulds of those panels if they're so hard to come by. A light accident could turn into a real pain!
Lots of interesting GRP bodywork available on the market eg RS200, 6R4 etc. Group B replicas could be a nice line for the OP. Or I'd like to see you have a go at a Group C; a 962 a la GTRCLIVE would be cool.
Will be interesting to see what price the Speed 3 Automotive 6R4 kit comes in at. They're using an Audi V6 but I do wonder if a Subaru Flat-4 and 'box would make a nice, low CoG alternative, perhaps giving more room from a shorter overall length (which I'm guessing it may be).
I remember some mid engine Minis with the Alfa flat-4 engine and box 25 years ago and they looked awesome!
It looks like a lot of the heavy steel is in the floor for a nice, low centre of gravity.
I'm loving it - think it looks awesome and should really shift. Might be worth taking moulds of those panels if they're so hard to come by. A light accident could turn into a real pain!
Lots of interesting GRP bodywork available on the market eg RS200, 6R4 etc. Group B replicas could be a nice line for the OP. Or I'd like to see you have a go at a Group C; a 962 a la GTRCLIVE would be cool.
Will be interesting to see what price the Speed 3 Automotive 6R4 kit comes in at. They're using an Audi V6 but I do wonder if a Subaru Flat-4 and 'box would make a nice, low CoG alternative, perhaps giving more room from a shorter overall length (which I'm guessing it may be).
I remember some mid engine Minis with the Alfa flat-4 engine and box 25 years ago and they looked awesome!
dom9 said:
Without going back and checking; I think the target weight is around 750kg.
It looks like a lot of the heavy steel is in the floor for a nice, low centre of gravity.
I'm loving it - think it looks awesome and should really shift. Might be worth taking moulds of those panels if they're so hard to come by. A light accident could turn into a real pain!
Lots of interesting GRP bodywork available on the market eg RS200, 6R4 etc. Group B replicas could be a nice line for the OP. Or I'd like to see you have a go at a Group C; a 962 a la GTRCLIVE would be cool.
Will be interesting to see what price the Speed 3 Automotive 6R4 kit comes in at. They're using an Audi V6 but I do wonder if a Subaru Flat-4 and 'box would make a nice, low CoG alternative, perhaps giving more room from a shorter overall length (which I'm guessing it may be).
I remember some mid engine Minis with the Alfa flat-4 engine and box 25 years ago and they looked awesome!
A Subaru flat four turbo would be an interesting powerplant choice for this project - nice and low and really short, with the advantage of an off the shelf gearbox option.It looks like a lot of the heavy steel is in the floor for a nice, low centre of gravity.
I'm loving it - think it looks awesome and should really shift. Might be worth taking moulds of those panels if they're so hard to come by. A light accident could turn into a real pain!
Lots of interesting GRP bodywork available on the market eg RS200, 6R4 etc. Group B replicas could be a nice line for the OP. Or I'd like to see you have a go at a Group C; a 962 a la GTRCLIVE would be cool.
Will be interesting to see what price the Speed 3 Automotive 6R4 kit comes in at. They're using an Audi V6 but I do wonder if a Subaru Flat-4 and 'box would make a nice, low CoG alternative, perhaps giving more room from a shorter overall length (which I'm guessing it may be).
I remember some mid engine Minis with the Alfa flat-4 engine and box 25 years ago and they looked awesome!
Obviously Formula Renault is cool too!
dom9 said:
Without going back and checking; I think the target weight is around 750kg.
It looks like a lot of the heavy steel is in the floor for a nice, low centre of gravity.
I'm loving it - think it looks awesome and should really shift. Might be worth taking moulds of those panels if they're so hard to come by. A light accident could turn into a real pain!
Lots of interesting GRP bodywork available on the market eg RS200, 6R4 etc. Group B replicas could be a nice line for the OP. Or I'd like to see you have a go at a Group C; a 962 a la GTRCLIVE would be cool.
Will be interesting to see what price the Speed 3 Automotive 6R4 kit comes in at. They're using an Audi V6 but I do wonder if a Subaru Flat-4 and 'box would make a nice, low CoG alternative, perhaps giving more room from a shorter overall length (which I'm guessing it may be).
I remember some mid engine Minis with the Alfa flat-4 engine and box 25 years ago and they looked awesome!
Funny you should mention Group C.. I had a guy bring in a full set of LMP2 suspension (wishbones, uprights, brakes, wheels) to see if I was interested in making something like that.It looks like a lot of the heavy steel is in the floor for a nice, low centre of gravity.
I'm loving it - think it looks awesome and should really shift. Might be worth taking moulds of those panels if they're so hard to come by. A light accident could turn into a real pain!
Lots of interesting GRP bodywork available on the market eg RS200, 6R4 etc. Group B replicas could be a nice line for the OP. Or I'd like to see you have a go at a Group C; a 962 a la GTRCLIVE would be cool.
Will be interesting to see what price the Speed 3 Automotive 6R4 kit comes in at. They're using an Audi V6 but I do wonder if a Subaru Flat-4 and 'box would make a nice, low CoG alternative, perhaps giving more room from a shorter overall length (which I'm guessing it may be).
I remember some mid engine Minis with the Alfa flat-4 engine and box 25 years ago and they looked awesome!
Kerb weight will be ~800kg and power is ~190bhp, so it won't be a rocket ship like my original project (600kg / 400bhp) but it should be a LOT of fun and certainly fast enough when hustled well.
The bodywork is a reproduction so isn't the most amazing fit or match to the original. As the car is likely to enter some endurance races, it'd be wise to take moulds and that's definitely on the cards at a later date, but I think to make acceptable reproductions I'd need to get hold of some original parts - there are some out there, but they aren't cheap by any means!
Dr G said:
Going through new thread now; I don't care what you build, just enjoy watching it come together (your workmanship looks truly exceptional).
In the very nicest way possible it reminds me a lot of Project Binky (look it up if you don't already follow). Exacting engineering with a sense of humour. If you ever find the hours in the day I'm sure your builds would make for a lot of keen Youtube followers too.
Thanks, I'll check it out! TBH I've made most of those posts at the end of a long day, so haven't really been able to ramble as much as I'd like, so I'm glad there's a little humour coming through in my frantic updates!In the very nicest way possible it reminds me a lot of Project Binky (look it up if you don't already follow). Exacting engineering with a sense of humour. If you ever find the hours in the day I'm sure your builds would make for a lot of keen Youtube followers too.
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