640d GC 4days in (possibly still the best car in real world)

[Ares]

Wills2 said:

br d said:

Fair enough but I think performance is about a lot more than half a second 0 - 60.

I agree, obviously in the right hands the 911 would be away on a twisting road (and as a driving experience on another plane), but the mid range punch these 8sp diesels have is mostly annoying!

Even in less than the right hands, a 640d wouldn't see which way the 911 went on a twisting road.

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Pooh said:

Not a fan, I cannot see why people think it looks nice and it will depreciate like a brick.
I would far rather have a Maserati GranTurismo S or sport for that sort of money, they have the best residual values in their class and are much more fun to drive, in fact that is exactly what I will be buying within the next few months, so not the slightest bit of jealousy here.

Can't really disagree with anything you say....but the Maserati GranTourismoS STARTS at £84,000. One of the father's at my daughter's school has just taken delivery to replace a 997 Turbo S and sit alongside a Bentley. It's in a different league.

[Ares]

Pooh said:

Ares said:

Pooh said:

Not a fan, I cannot see why people think it looks nice and it will depreciate like a brick.
I would far rather have a Maserati GranTurismo S or sport for that sort of money, they have the best residual values in their class and are much more fun to drive, in fact that is exactly what I will be buying within the next few months, so not the slightest bit of jealousy here.

Can't really disagree with anything you say....but the Maserati GranTourismoS STARTS at £84,000. One of the father's at my daughter's school has just taken delivery to replace a 997 Turbo S and sit alongside a Bentley. It's in a different league.

That is a fair point but you can pick up a very low mileage nearly new Sport for about 75k and that is what I am aiming for, if I cannot quite stretch to that then I will go for an MC shift S for 10 to 15 thousand pounds less.
I am glad that you are enjoying your car, the world would be very dull if we all had the same taste,

I'm sure you'll likewise love the Maser.... Stunning car. I SO nearly bought a 4200GT 10 years or so ago. Still struggle to get over the fact that I missed the chance to own an Italian V8 super-car.
If I didn't want the comfort of a three year warranty/5-years service, I would have been sorely tempted by a QuattroPorte. Fleetingly looked at a Sport GT S at JCT600. But at 3 years old and £72k it was just too much of a gamble. Car is in a different league though.

[Ares]

Thanks for the comments.

Still impressing the arse off me.

First full tank fill-up two days ago, 130 miles in and it gives an indicated range of 700 miles from it's 60 litre tank (and 310bhp engine)



Quoted mpg over first 500 miles has been just under 46mpg.




Also invested in a Karcher JetWash.... almost as impressive.

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Terminator X said:

edo said:

No this st again.

Better range, same performance (quicker in gear). Better residuals (poor versus terrible).

A better drive in the real world (i.e. not on a track). Only sounds marginally worse.

Have you driven a 40d engine?

No, pls tell me all about it. Whilst you're at at though the OP isn't bothered by residuals according to earlier posts so you can discount that which just leaves the mpg issue. Seems silly imho to worry about fuel when you're spending £50k in the first place + the petrol version is a 4.8 V8, what's not to like about that! I'll leave you to cream over Big Diesels though

TX.

Thats a very ignorant post. Of course I'm bothered about residuals, a PCP is based on them. Ditto to think that that level of car makes you ambivolent about fuel costs.

A £50k car does not make you Rockafellar. Anyone with a top, well-specc'd 3-series has spent £50k on their car. Running costs are always going to be a factor.

Would I rather hear a V8 when I hit the throttle - of course
Would I rather have the ability to rocket to 60 half-a-second quicker - not really that bothered.

Would I want to pay £50-10k more for the car? No
Would I want to spend almost double on fuel? No
Would I want to spend well over double on road tax? No.


Considerations like these are what I call 'real world'.

[Ares]

rb5er said:

Fox- said:

rb5er said:

In the real world for that money so many better, more interesting and rarer cars about that I would personally much prefer.

Is this another one of those 'Why would you buy automatic saloon car A when you could buy manual 2 seater sports car B' comments? They are always good fun, especially the part where somebody actually believes somebody buying a large comfortable 4 door wafter cares that they could instead buy a Cayman.

No this is one of those posts pointing out that there are plenty of other boring wafting diesels out there just as there are plenty of better "real world" cars out there whatever that is supposed to mean.

Your post obviously has less of a point too it than mine as you are commenting on something I didn`t even say. Very helpful. Well done.

.....and yet no-one can name a new 4-door car that is so much better,ideally with 300bhp+ ?? If there are SO many, which cars do what the 640d Gran Coupe does, but better??

Genuinely interested. I couldn't find a single one.

[Ares]

rb5er said:

Fox- said:

rb5er said:

When you say of the same type?

Large, new, 4 seater, 4 door saloon cars for similar money. Fairly clear, I'd say?
.

Are you serious? You want me to name every 4 door saloon car up to £73k that I would have over these quite ugly BMW`s? You honestly cant just see that yourself?

I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of the thread title. Not expecting to reel off a list of cars I would personally deem preferable to this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XF-5-0V8-510PS-au...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014-Jaguar-XJ-XJ-3-0d-V...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-S7-/321369698544?pt...

Theres just 3 cars from 2 manufacturers in 30 seconds. Personally i think you can go to a much lower budget and get a preferable car. Its the thread title that I find more pretentious than even the car.

3 cars....none of which really compete? Two forced induction Petrol 'Q-cars' and a diesel luxury car that comes up near 50bhp short and expensive??


So again....of all these cars that I could have/should have bought.... What are they? I'm genuinely interested.

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aspirated said:

OP - Thought about taking an Audi A7 with the new 3.0 BiTDI engine on an extended test drive and writing up a comparison?

Not driven the A7, but have driven the A6 BiTurbo. Lovely car, similarly quick, BMWs edge seems to more down to a better gearbox, good build quality, although a little numb and bland to drive (felt as if you sit 'on' the Audi, rather than 'in' the BMW).

Never warmed to the A7. Nothing like as good looking, especially inside where the interior just seems standard Audi array of germanic design and buttons - fall-away dash also gives it and airy MPV feel rather than something more sporting. Plus Audi's interest in shifting cars is nothing like as much as BMWs is so the deals are nothing like as keen.

Still a nice car though and gives the advantage of the Quattro option!

[Ares]

rb5er said:

Fox- said:

So 3 cars, of which two are nutter turbocharged/supercharged ultra high end performance variants, surely M6 rivals not 640 diesel rivals. Only one is a diesel saloon, and a good one at that.

So thats 1 car thats as good at doing what a 640d does for for the money (Though it is slower and down on power). Excellent. I thought there were 'many, many' cars that were better?

Like I said, looked at 1 site (ebay) and took about 30 seconds. I`m not going to list them all to please you, you can feel free to do that yourself, there are plenty.

Yes some are high performance but are much cheaper than this diesel car (£20k) negating any fuel economy saving. All are preferable in my personal opinion and there are loads to look at if you simply open your eyes and have a little search for yourself.

The point I was making is at the bolshy arrogance of the thread title when so many options are available at that price point.

Hmm 640d or Jaguar XFR and £20k towards fuel.. I know which I would rather.

But an XFR, like-for-like will cost at least as much as the 640d if not more once deals are factored in? (unless you know a supply of £33k brand new XFRs of course ) ....XFR would also cost a lot more to tax, fuel, service, etc etc.


So back to these 'so many options' and my arrogance....??? What other 300bhp, 4 door, 40/50mpg large saloons are there?

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Layacable said:

Its a shame that there is lots of hate in this thread (and not enough pics!)

The GC is a lovely looking thing IMO, but isnt a viable purchace for us as we need 3 full back seats.

Great car OP......more pics please!.

Sorry.....I'll work on the pictures!

The rear seat is a strange choice. Three, 3-point seat belts, but only really two rear bucket seats. My wife sat on the middle 'seat' for a 20 mile journey, legs straddling the rear console. She was fine for that 20 miles/20 mins, but wouldn't have wanted to do it for 2 hours!

That said, the 2 main rear seats are lovely and very, very comfortable.

[Ares]

Cupramax said:

Ares said:

have driven the A6 BiTurbo. Lovely car, similarly quick, BMWs edge seems to more down to a better gearbox,

Both cars have the same gearbox albeit in 4wd format in the Audi, its not a DSG.

Really? doesn't feel like it. The Audi felt a LOT longer geared and the changes were nothing like as quick. Didn't even feel as quick to shift as my old 530d's gearbox - again technically the same ZF box as in the 640d (and A6 from what you are saying).

[Ares]

coolchris said:

In my opinion its a cracking car the OP has the only other similar car I can think of that ticks similar boxes is the Alpina D5 bi turbo 47mpg 345bhp 516ft lb torque 5 secs to 60 55k

Thats a great car - just a shame they don't do the 6GC with the same engine (ditto the lack of 650d - yet!)

[Ares]

rb5er said:

Jealousy of a car I think is ugly and have pointed out several comparables I would rather? Really? Hmm....

...have you?? You proffered one, the diesel XJ that is c50bhp short and more expensive. Despite several request to details 'so many' alternatives?

Care to offer a few more (Similar power/similar economics/similar accommodation - for the avoidance of doubt)

[Ares]

BlimeyCharlie said:

I've looked at the first page comments and now the 13th page comments and nothing seems to have changed?

My first impression and therefore opinion is "too much information..anyone who asks or cares about mpg is boring...diesel car bore...too many words like 'exploded' and 'blasted' and by the 13th page we are still waffling on about mpg".

My mate actually tells me what the mpg is of his Audi whenever he drives down from where he lives 100 miles away. What is the point of that? I tell him every time I don't care. He can't help it. He is boring. A car bore. His car is a diesel. Say no more. Sounds like a taxi and smells like one too.

He also does 'track days' and mountain biking. And 'does' photography. And now takes photos of stars, as in solar system stars. He always 'does' these activities with a group of fellow 'enthusiasts' and they all babble on about gadgets, mpg and so on. Goes camping too. Delights in telling me of some super car he has overtaken at Thruxton or how much his tyres cost or his lens cost or what aperture it is etc. Spends a FORTUNE on gear/equipment but is a tight bast*ard at the same time.

Very tedious and I've...fell...asleep.

Sorry, I got bored reading your 400 word moan. Did you say anything other than a whinge that it's a diesel? Please paraphrase if you did. Or ignore the thread if you didn't. TAGL.

In any regard, it's not like I bought a Volvo.

[Ares]

crazy about cars said:

Loving that display screen. New gen BMWs certainly have improved miles in this area.

Any pictures of the rear OP?

Display is amazing almost notebook size. Real step forward compared to even 3 years ago. Uses Google Maps for satellite imagery, plus destination photos to aid location. Even better, now incorporates Google Traffic with Real-Time-Traffic-Information (same Green/Yellow/Amber/Red route colouring as online) - work very well. See here:




Other pictures as requested....

[Ares]

Thanks Guys!


"Noli sinere nothos te opprimere"

[Ares]

ORD said:

It is a very good-looking car.

Best 4-seater diesel car for less than £60k? I think that is a realistic statement.

If deals come about again that you can get a well spec'd MSport for less than £60k, my advice is to snap hands off quickly.

Best deal my dealer could do on my actual car now is £64,500 and almost double the APR. Still over £10,000 off list, but nothing like what I got. Power of an end-of-quarter negotiation!

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edo said:

I have had my 640d (Coupe) for just over 2 years, personal lease, and it goes back in August.

I am absolutely stumped as to what to replace it with. If anyone thinks I havent had a spread of (petrol and diesel) cars, please check my 40+ car history in my profile. This is absolutely one of the best cars I have owned; Quick, Comfortable, reliable (that's done it) and amazingly good on fuel for the performance.

I'm currently sitting at 23,000 miles, and car is showing 39mpg since day 1. Now I am sure the computer is slightly over optimistic, but even so for a big 300bhp GT car I think that is insane.

It also smashed through its limiter to a gps confirmed 162mph (private track).

The only 3 bad points for me; 1; it's a big car, so parking spaces are sometimes tight, as are carparks like T5 LHR spiral in/out which makes me twitch. 2; Depreciation. Luckily I chose the correct path and did a straight 3+29 personal lease (600pm 12k pa), so for 2.5 years just over 19k. I reckon the car (list 69) is worth no more than 35k now, so whilst a bargain for someone, you'd have needed a bloody big discount to make that depreciation palatable. 3; 20" wheels pretty firm on potholes. Having said that I am still on original tyres which is pretty amazing (slightly helped by winter wheels for 3 months a year).

Alongside nothing going wrong, it has only had one while you wait oil change/service which was dont free as part of the service pack. It doesnt use oil.

What helps the lease/PCP costs is generous (as it should be) spec, including prof media, heated seats, decent hi-fi, elec memory seats, park sensors etc etc, so you dont have to load extras so much which just bump up lease costs. I am getting quotes currently for 2 or 4 series with a few bits just as much as another 6 series..

Is it the "best car in the real world"? I dont know, everyone has different requirements. I am lucky I have 2 other cars as well, one being a good old fashioned manual RWD sports car, but I know which car I prefer to use when I have a long UK journey to do in average weather with a mix of motorway and a and b roads..

I have never repeated a car more than once before, but I may be breaking my rule come August.

Just my 2p.

Great write up, thanks Edo! I share your comments.

I looked at a 435d too (in anticipation of the Gran Coupe version of that coming out) - lovely looking car from the outside, I was just underwhelmed inside as it is a real step down from even the 5-series, let alone the 6. Still a nice interior, and still prefer it to the other German competitors, just could have done more IMO.

Echo your insanity comment on the fuel consumption. I've still not finished a full tank yet to work out real world mpg, and I never did work it out with my 530d so no real comparison other than the computer, but I've done 460 miles so far, gauge still shows 1/4 of a tank, range quoted at 150 miles which gives it 46mpg. Computer shows 44mpg. For a big 310bhp car, its ridiculous.

Interested to know see where your August purchase ends up.

[Ares]

blindswelledrat said:

edo said:

I have had my 640d (Coupe) for just over 2 years, personal lease, and it goes back in August.

I am absolutely stumped as to what to replace it with. If anyone thinks I havent had a spread of (petrol and diesel) cars, please check my 40+ car history in my profile.

Perhaps try a car that isn't German?
Quite an odd unswerving loyalty to any car as long as it is German there!
Edit: Not completely fair, looking a bit closer there is all sorts in there.
But seriously, for your everyday car have you considered something non-german like a Lexus?

Edited by blindswelledrat on Friday 25th April 12:42

Problem is, there is very little that can hold a candle to the Germans (bigotry aside ;-) ). Jaguar are getting there, few others even come close.

Lexus may be fine cars, but they are dull and dull can be to drive (LFA not withstanding, obviously) and not much better to look at, although improving. The only real Japanese rival to the larger german saloons is the GS Hybrid.

[Ares]

blindswelledrat said:

Ares said:

Problem is, there is very little that can hold a candle to the Germans (bigotry aside ;-) ). Jaguar are getting there, few others even come close.
.

How do you know if you don't try them?
With regards to driving 'fun' I never see the relevance when you are comparing the relative merits of one 2 tonne diesel cruiser versus another.
If aesthetics are an issue then surely a Quattroporte/Ghibli are worth a try?
Jag XJ is a stunning car and objectively I would have though most people would find it infinitely more desirable than a 6 series - particularly when you don't have to worry about depreciation and running costs as it will be in warranty?

I know it boils down to taste and preference ultimately but it is this cast iron belief that 'very little can hold a candle to the Germans' that I just don't get

I've tried loads.

The Maserati QP is stunning....but not something I could consider as a real alternative to the 640d or similar. Italian V8 Supercar heart might stir the passion, but from a reliable, common-sense daily driver it's a high-risk and very expensive strategy. The New Ghibli looks as if it will be the 'heart' purchase to the German's 'Head' purchase.

The XJ is lovely.....although externally dating ahead of its time - the interior is amazing though. It's dynamically and technically inferior to it's German cousins though. In my opinion at least. I drive that and the XF. Was left underwhelmed.

As for the merits of 2-tonne diesels..... That is the market that 'real world'/every day common sense sits within. 20mpg, £500 services and £400/yr tax are a big issue when you can get 40-50mpg, free servicing and £140/yr tax.....especially when performance is in at least a similar league.

Trying different cars is a LOT of fun though!