The Practical Family Barge - E61 M5

[Hitch78]

MuZiZZle said:

automagically

Brilliant!

[Usget]

This (albeit a saloon) is my real-world dream car. I am very jealous of that amazing engine note!!!

[MuZiZZle]

Well I've had this thing about a fortnight, and I'm utterly smitten.

I've filled it up 3 times and the average consumption is basically horrific as expected.

For me the most surprising thing about this car is when it's off M mode.

With the EDC on comfort, and no jazzy buttons pressed, it's like driving a large cloud, the steering is very very light, and due to the torque it's an effortless drive.

Coming from a 320d MSport, which was changed to real rubber over runflats, this is leagues ahead in driveability and comfort at coummuting speeds.

[D4MJT]

MuZiZZle said:

Well I've had this thing about a fortnight, and I'm utterly smitten.

I've filled it up 3 times and the average consumption is basically horrific as expected.

For me the most surprising thing about this car is when it's off M mode.

With the EDC on comfort, and no jazzy buttons pressed, it's like driving a large cloud, the steering is very very light, and due to the torque it's an effortless drive.

Coming from a 320d MSport, which was changed to real rubber over runflats, this is leagues ahead in driveability and comfort at coummuting speeds.

It's no Saxo VTS though is it?

[Shaoxter]

MuZiZZle said:

With the EDC on comfort, and no jazzy buttons pressed, it's like driving a large cloud, the steering is very very light, and due to the torque it's an effortless drive.

Really? I would say it lacks torque at low rpms (1-3k) for day to day driving. Not that that's a bad thing when you get all that crazy power at 5-8k rpm!

[E65Ross]

Shaoxter said:

MuZiZZle said:

With the EDC on comfort, and no jazzy buttons pressed, it's like driving a large cloud, the steering is very very light, and due to the torque it's an effortless drive.

Really? I would say it lacks torque at low rpms (1-3k) for day to day driving. Not that that's a bad thing when you get all that crazy power at 5-8k rpm!

Lacks torque for day to day driving? compared to what?

Seems so many people forget torque and power are related by rpm, and yet they seem to drive every engine (be it diesel or high revving V10) the same. "Low down" torque in something revving 8250rpm is almost twice as high as "low down" on something that revs to 4500rpm isn't it.....

So if you drive a diesel "day to day 1-3k rpm" and then claim the V10 has no torque then you need to learn how to use a gearbox

[D4MJT]

I too find the no torque comment a bit bizarre.

I've not driven it much, but it's easily on par with the 320d pootling around, I personally would say it's got more punch. Iirc it's got 389 ft lb of torque, and something like 70-odd% of it is available from 1,500rpm?

[Shaoxter]

Are you saying people should drive above 3k rpm in day to day driving, i.e. pootle around in second gear at 30mph?

Because that's a sure fire way to get lower than the 10-13mpg you get with these cars around town.

[N88]

Shaoxter said:

Are you saying people should drive above 3k rpm in day to day driving, i.e. pootle around in second gear at 30mph?

Because that's a sure fire way to get lower than the 10-13mpg you get with these cars around town.

I'm interested what you mean by day to day driving?

[E65Ross]

Shaoxter said:

Are you saying people should drive above 3k rpm in day to day driving, i.e. pootle around in second gear at 30mph?

Because that's a sure fire way to get lower than the 10-13mpg you get with these cars around town.

I'm saying that you should use which ever gear gives you the same top road speed regardless of the car before you start saying it has no torque. For example if 3rd in a 330d goes to 100mph, and it does in the M5 then use 3rd gear at a given road speed (e.g. 30mph rolling start in 3rd)

Let's say 30mph in 3rd is 1425rpm (30% of 4750rpm redline) in the 320d and 2475rpm in the M5 (30% of 8250rpm redline) then even if the M5 is making more torque it's revving higher....thus making more power.

If you did it by rpm you would be racing the 330d at 30mph in 3rd vs something like 5th in the M5.....and then you'll claim the M5 has no low down torque.....

You wouldn't drive 2 identical cars but if one had a very short diff and the other very tall you wouldn't drive around in the same gear and suddenly say "that engine has no torque" in the car with a tall diff ratio, would you?

[Shaoxter]

D4MJT said:

I've not driven it much, but it's easily on par with the 320d pootling around, I personally would say it's got more punch. Iirc it's got 389 ft lb of torque, and something like 70-odd% of it is available from 1,500rpm?

Of course it's got more punch than a 320d but that's comparing apples and watermelons isn't it

Here's the power curve, at 2000rpm it's only outputting about 110bhp. Let's say you're doing 40mph in 7th gear on an urban dual carriageway and want to overtake, you really have to shift down to 3rd (or 2nd if you're feeling naughty) to feel the torque/power/surge of acceleration.

[E65Ross]

Shaoxter said:

D4MJT said:

I've not driven it much, but it's easily on par with the 320d pootling around, I personally would say it's got more punch. Iirc it's got 389 ft lb of torque, and something like 70-odd% of it is available from 1,500rpm?

Of course it's got more punch than a 320d but that's comparing apples and watermelons isn't it

Here's the power curve, at 2000rpm it's only outputting about 110bhp. Let's say you're doing 40mph in 7th gear on an urban dual carriageway and want to overtake, you really have to shift down to 3rd (or 2nd if you're feeling naughty) to feel the torque/power/surge of acceleration.

But why would you be driving at 40mph in 7th gear? It's pulling around 1500rpm, yet the "equivalent" to that in a diesel which revs to 4750rpm (for example) would be like driving it along at less than 1k rpm, which you simply wouldn't do....so why would you do effectively the same in this car?

[Shaoxter]

N88 said:

I'm interested what you mean by day to day driving?

For me it generally means being stuck in London traffic
With the odd blast through a tunnel

[Shaoxter]

E65Ross said:

But why would you be driving at 40mph in 7th gear?

Because I'm not an oil sheikh?

So driving in 3rd to maintain 3k rpm would be how you would drive these cars at 40mph?

[N88]

Exactly, so I don't see why the supposed lack of low down torque is ever going to be a problem. It's only low compared to the torque higher up the rev range, not compared to the majority of other cars on the road.

I manage around town in my ITR never mind in a flippin' V10 M5!

[Shaoxter]

N88 said:

Exactly, so I don't see why the supposed lack of low down torque is ever going to be a problem. It's only low compared to the torque higher up the rev range, not compared to the majority of other cars on the road.

I manage around town in my ITR never mind in a flippin' V10 M5!

You're right, I've been spoiled by all the power higher up the rev range.

You can still easily overtake people by putting your foot down in 7th gear but you'd slowly creep past them (as would be the case in a "normal" car) rather than whizzing past. Somehow not as satisfying...

[Cheburator mk2]

Shaoxter said:

You're right, I've been spoiled by all the power higher up the rev range.

You can still easily overtake people by putting your foot down in 7th gear but you'd slowly creep past them (as would be the case in a "normal" car) rather than whizzing past. Somehow not as satisfying...

Don't mean to be condescending, but if you are driving at 40mph in 7th you are lugging the engine... 5th is perfectly adequate as a compromise between fuel economy and engine preservation. In my 2.5yrs and 17,000 miles of ownership of an E61 M5 in London, fuel was definitely the last thing on my mind, compared to the cost of tyres and brakes - three Nurburgring trips and numerous visits to North Wales, and Norfolk/Lincolshire made sure of that...

[cerb4.5lee]

If you read some reviews of the E6x M5 most suggest you need to keep the revs up to make decent progress which in turn makes the car feel like it lacks torque low down it doesn't but most think it does, my E92 M3 was the same you only felt you were making decent progress at high rpm.

I was reading an old review of the Audi RS5 that Chris Harris did and he commented on how that lacked torque yet it has over 300ft/ibs but yet again its a high revving engine so there must be a link to a high revving engine lacking something low down as it always seems to get mentioned with this type of car.

The only way to eliminate the so called lack of torque on these type of engines is to thrash the life out of them and that is good fun in itself!

Diesels and blown engines have a lot to answer for as nowadays most people want performance on tap not have to wait until 6k revs to get the thrills hence why cars like the M135i are so popular as they offer usable punch in the daily environment.

[Truckosaurus]

(As another E61 M5 owner) There's plenty of torque for pottering around town at 30mph and you can take roundabouts (c.20mph) in 3rd without drama. I find that you have to run 1st gear to at least 3000rpm to get a clean change into 2nd (but that might be my shonky footwork on the throttle).

The only time you think the car lacks torque is when you find yourself in 7th around 60mph (in P400 mode) and expect it to shoot off into the distance but a couple of blips of the left-hand paddle sorts that out.

[E65Ross]

cerb4.5lee said:

I was reading an old review of the Audi RS5 that Chris Harris did and he commented on how that lacked torque yet it has over 300ft/ibs but yet again its a high revving engine so there must be a link to a high revving engine lacking something low down as it always seems to get mentioned with this type of car.

Suspect it's more to do with the fact that because they rev so high they offer so much more than their torque figure suggests that at low down they FEEL weedy in comparison to what they can offer up top.