The Practical Family Barge - E61 M5
Discussion
cerb4.5lee said:
I was reading an old review of the Audi RS5 that Chris Harris did and he commented on how that lacked torque yet it has over 300ft/ibs but yet again its a high revving engine so there must be a link to a high revving engine lacking something low down as it always seems to get mentioned with this type of car.
It's a feel thing, having to rev a petrol car higher than a diesel to get the same torque at the wheels for any given gear or road speed will give you the impression that the petrol car lacks torque even of technically it doesn't. Obviously every car feels different and in comparison to a low revving turbo engine a high revving petrol will feel like it has no torque, even of the peaks are largely the same.
Anyway, some cars do actually have less torque at the wheels for any given gear/road speed which seems to be often ignored by those who love to go on about torque at the wheels vs flywheel and how gearing 'compensates' for it.
leglessAlex said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I was reading an old review of the Audi RS5 that Chris Harris did and he commented on how that lacked torque yet it has over 300ft/ibs but yet again its a high revving engine so there must be a link to a high revving engine lacking something low down as it always seems to get mentioned with this type of car.
Obviously every car feels different and in comparison to a low revving turbo engine a high revving petrol will feel like it has no torque, even of the peaks are largely the same. cerb4.5lee said:
I was always quick to criticise my E92 M3 low down and our TTS felt miles more lively and punchy low down in the revs because of the turbo in comparison but the TTS doesn't have the top end fireworks of the M3...its a shame you cant have it both ways really.
Have you driven an M5 V10? The E90/92/93 M3 is 100 ft-lb's down on torque in comparison to the S65 V10 lump. That's pretty much 25% torque loss. The S65 V8 lump also makes peak torque far earlier at 3,900rpm, whereas the S85 V10 makes it's peak torque far later at 6,100rpm.I should make it clear that I haven't driven the E9x M3 with the S65 V8, but I am aware it is regarded widely as being "highly strung" and an engine that needs to be worked to extract the best from. I honestly can't say the S85 V10 lump felt wanting for torque, it really feels lively and punchy at any speed, and ballistic if you drop a few gears and pin it.
D4MJT said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I was always quick to criticise my E92 M3 low down and our TTS felt miles more lively and punchy low down in the revs because of the turbo in comparison but the TTS doesn't have the top end fireworks of the M3...its a shame you cant have it both ways really.
Have you driven an M5 V10? The E90/92/93 M3 is 100 ft-lb's down on torque in comparison to the S65 V10 lump. That's pretty much 25% torque loss. The S65 V8 lump also makes peak torque far earlier at 3,900rpm, whereas the S85 V10 makes it's peak torque far later at 6,100rpm.I should make it clear that I haven't driven the E9x M3 with the S65 V8, but I am aware it is regarded widely as being "highly strung" and an engine that needs to be worked to extract the best from. I honestly can't say the S85 V10 lump felt wanting for torque, it really feels lively and punchy at any speed, and ballistic if you drop a few gears and pin it.
even when I purchased my M3 I said to the salesman that I always wanted a M5 and it was only the fact that I wanted a Manual gearbox so that's why I went with the M3...but I prefer the M5 in virtually every other way. cerb4.5lee said:
No I haven't been lucky enough to have a go in a V10 M5...but I would love too! it always looks an epic performer from what I have seen on videos as well, make no mistake I love the M5 even when I purchased my M3 I said to the salesman that I always wanted a M5 and it was only the fact that I wanted a Manual gearbox so that's why I went with the M3...but I prefer the M5 in virtually every other way.
If you get a chance, do it, it's an unreal engine, I really don't understand the "no-torque" brigade, it feels strong all the time, and if you drop a few cogs it feels ungodly! even when I purchased my M3 I said to the salesman that I always wanted a M5 and it was only the fact that I wanted a Manual gearbox so that's why I went with the M3...but I prefer the M5 in virtually every other way. 
D4MJT said:
cerb4.5lee said:
No I haven't been lucky enough to have a go in a V10 M5...but I would love too! it always looks an epic performer from what I have seen on videos as well, make no mistake I love the M5 even when I purchased my M3 I said to the salesman that I always wanted a M5 and it was only the fact that I wanted a Manual gearbox so that's why I went with the M3...but I prefer the M5 in virtually every other way.
If you get a chance, do it, it's an unreal engine, I really don't understand the "no-torque" brigade, it feels strong all the time, and if you drop a few cogs it feels ungodly! even when I purchased my M3 I said to the salesman that I always wanted a M5 and it was only the fact that I wanted a Manual gearbox so that's why I went with the M3...but I prefer the M5 in virtually every other way. 
According to the stats, the car puts out 380 lb-ft of torque peak, it's supposed to put out 73% of that from 1200rpm? so 284 lb-ft
So as a cruiser it's more than happy to do 40 in some stupidly high gear, for 40 i'd be in 5th or maybe 4th.
On the school run which is a long high street I'd be lucky to get into 5th, on the A1 mixing witht commuters I'm at 60 in 7th, the way the traffic is when I commute to work I'd never get a gap big enough to really go silly, and since the brakes are lurpak I have to factor in 10 seconds of the loud pedal = 4 years of braking.
It does rev faster the high up the rev band you get though, akin to VTEC but actually making the car go quickly.
I plan to run this car for a while, so I'm trying not to kick it's head in all the time, it's a really nice place to be, it makes an amazing burble, I need to try and keep it in my life, not a hedge, or the BMW workshop.
So as a cruiser it's more than happy to do 40 in some stupidly high gear, for 40 i'd be in 5th or maybe 4th.
On the school run which is a long high street I'd be lucky to get into 5th, on the A1 mixing witht commuters I'm at 60 in 7th, the way the traffic is when I commute to work I'd never get a gap big enough to really go silly, and since the brakes are lurpak I have to factor in 10 seconds of the loud pedal = 4 years of braking.
It does rev faster the high up the rev band you get though, akin to VTEC but actually making the car go quickly.
I plan to run this car for a while, so I'm trying not to kick it's head in all the time, it's a really nice place to be, it makes an amazing burble, I need to try and keep it in my life, not a hedge, or the BMW workshop.
Edited by MuZiZZle on Friday 2nd May 11:18
Well, almost 2 months of ownership and the first problem has struck, both of my fobs just randomly stopped working.
Now I can use the key in the fob to lock it by hand but when unlocking it the alarm goes off, which when you leave for work at 6am can realy annoy your neighbors.
It's going in to Lloyds of ewcastle this friday for a diagnostic, I suspect it to be the comfort access module that lives in the spoiler getting wet, but I'll get them to crawl all over the car once it's in their mitts.
This is a known issue I'm told, and they modify the spoiler with some internal foam blocks to keep the lids on things?
Other than that it's been spot on, it's due the big 60k service in a few hundred miles too, so I'll be happy knowing it's got delicious fresh fluids in it and they've drained all of the sheared teeth and metal shavings from the gearbox and diff. It's due new plugs and filters and god knows what else.
Now I can use the key in the fob to lock it by hand but when unlocking it the alarm goes off, which when you leave for work at 6am can realy annoy your neighbors.
It's going in to Lloyds of ewcastle this friday for a diagnostic, I suspect it to be the comfort access module that lives in the spoiler getting wet, but I'll get them to crawl all over the car once it's in their mitts.
This is a known issue I'm told, and they modify the spoiler with some internal foam blocks to keep the lids on things?
Other than that it's been spot on, it's due the big 60k service in a few hundred miles too, so I'll be happy knowing it's got delicious fresh fluids in it and they've drained all of the sheared teeth and metal shavings from the gearbox and diff. It's due new plugs and filters and god knows what else.
Have you tried rebooting the keys in the lock?
Lock car with key in lock.
With the key in the lock press and hold 'open' button on fob. Turn key to open with button still held.
Press and hold button again and turn to lock.
If it's just a comfort computer issue this may solve your problem. If it's moisture related then it may not.
Worth a try though.
Lock car with key in lock.
With the key in the lock press and hold 'open' button on fob. Turn key to open with button still held.
Press and hold button again and turn to lock.
If it's just a comfort computer issue this may solve your problem. If it's moisture related then it may not.
Worth a try though.
ecain63 said:
Have you tried rebooting the keys in the lock?
Lock car with key in lock.
With the key in the lock press and hold 'open' button on fob. Turn key to open with button still held.
Press and hold button again and turn to lock.
If it's just a comfort computer issue this may solve your problem. If it's moisture related then it may not.
Worth a try though.
I've tried allsorts, but it tends to stop working after rain, and since I have a warranty it may aswell go in, cheers for the idea though!Lock car with key in lock.
With the key in the lock press and hold 'open' button on fob. Turn key to open with button still held.
Press and hold button again and turn to lock.
If it's just a comfort computer issue this may solve your problem. If it's moisture related then it may not.
Worth a try though.
I thought I'd stick a few photos on too, not much is going on other than using it really, getting the new rear tyres on, and washing it lots, it could do with a few chips sorted out, and the wheels could do with a refurb, until then I've stripped the wax off, glazed it with Poorboys Black Hole, and waxed it with Dodojuice Purple Haze.
It's been used as a sort of high speed van.
I've also stuck some seats in for the nippers.
Edited by MuZiZZle on Sunday 15th June 08:14
eldavo said:
Have you still got the Saxo track car too?
Dean at DW Motorworks in Gateshead is an ex-M technician and knows his way around an E60 M5 like you wouldn't believe - he'll be a damn site cheaper than Lloyd's too!
David - with the 944 Turbo on Great Park
+1 he's a top bloke and totally trustworthy. He's looked after my E65 and the missus E92 for years and his knowledge of the cars never fails to surpise me. (Dean that is, not David Dean at DW Motorworks in Gateshead is an ex-M technician and knows his way around an E60 M5 like you wouldn't believe - he'll be a damn site cheaper than Lloyd's too!
David - with the 944 Turbo on Great Park
)eldavo said:
Have you still got the Saxo track car too?
Dean at DW Motorworks in Gateshead is an ex-M technician and knows his way around an E60 M5 like you wouldn't believe - he'll be a damn site cheaper than Lloyd's too!
David - with the 944 Turbo on Great Park
Ah hello!Dean at DW Motorworks in Gateshead is an ex-M technician and knows his way around an E60 M5 like you wouldn't believe - he'll be a damn site cheaper than Lloyd's too!
David - with the 944 Turbo on Great Park
Yes I have, I mean the M5 is okay, but it's no VTS!
bennyboydurham said:
eldavo said:
Have you still got the Saxo track car too?
Dean at DW Motorworks in Gateshead is an ex-M technician and knows his way around an E60 M5 like you wouldn't believe - he'll be a damn site cheaper than Lloyd's too!
David - with the 944 Turbo on Great Park
+1 he's a top bloke and totally trustworthy. He's looked after my E65 and the missus E92 for years and his knowledge of the cars never fails to surpise me. (Dean that is, not David Dean at DW Motorworks in Gateshead is an ex-M technician and knows his way around an E60 M5 like you wouldn't believe - he'll be a damn site cheaper than Lloyd's too!
David - with the 944 Turbo on Great Park
)
Sadly Dean isn't VAT registered so I can't use him and maintain the Mondial warranty, I managed to haggle out a reasonable price with Lloyds so it's getting serviced when it goes in for it's little diagnostic stop, I say reasonable.......
They said it can take 2 hours to 2 days to run diagnostics on it, and they have to do that before doing the module if that's at fault, it's also getting the + paddle swapped as the light has gone out on it, the load cover looked at as it's hitty miss and if I remember the non assisted tailgate damper as it appears to have split the outer plastic casing.
I wonder what my loaner car will be, I'll have it for 4 days......
They said it can take 2 hours to 2 days to run diagnostics on it, and they have to do that before doing the module if that's at fault, it's also getting the + paddle swapped as the light has gone out on it, the load cover looked at as it's hitty miss and if I remember the non assisted tailgate damper as it appears to have split the outer plastic casing.
I wonder what my loaner car will be, I'll have it for 4 days......
Driven a few of these for work and love them, of course they'll feel slightly sluggish at lower revs, most petrol engines do. The big difference is when you hit higher revs and the thing just transforms into a different animal altogether. This would be in my £100k garage alongside a tuned RS6 V10 avant.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff