The road-going racing car - Sam McKee's BMW E36 328i
Discussion
Cheers guys! Yes, brave indeed letting that lunatic drive the car again 
Tom, if I don't remember to come and say hello, please do so!
Tom, if I don't remember to come and say hello, please do so!
Bear Phils said:
I remember reading something about the track rods possibly causing judder under braking, ball joints may be at fault as well if the new brakes don't solve the problem, the outer ones are a common failure.
Hmm, that's interesting. I can't get any sort of judder or even vague feeling that I'd normally associate with track rods and ball joints in any cornering situation, only under braking. The car also feels rock solid over kerbs and the like, which I'd expect to show up any ball joint issues. But now you've mentioned it, I'll see if it behaves any differently when the steering input changes while braking - if there's any suspension fault, that should show it up. Thanks for the info.Oh, don't worry, the tyres weren't an actual design solution 
the car's deliberately a bit conservative because I've been using it to introduce novices to track days, but at Bedford we fancied a bit of tail-happiness so used the crap tyres as a quick and easy way to upset it!
Good to hear your experience with the camber though.. I have -2.5° front and -1.5° rear, but since I can't find any proper figures for how much camber gain the rear produces in roll, I've no idea what the balance is like when loaded up mid-corner. I reckon the front is about right, but a bit less rear could be helpful - especially if you still managed a good balance with 235-section rears! Could probably do with checking the geo anyway, it's been over a year of abuse since it was last set up so I'll play around with it then
the car's deliberately a bit conservative because I've been using it to introduce novices to track days, but at Bedford we fancied a bit of tail-happiness so used the crap tyres as a quick and easy way to upset it! Good to hear your experience with the camber though.. I have -2.5° front and -1.5° rear, but since I can't find any proper figures for how much camber gain the rear produces in roll, I've no idea what the balance is like when loaded up mid-corner. I reckon the front is about right, but a bit less rear could be helpful - especially if you still managed a good balance with 235-section rears! Could probably do with checking the geo anyway, it's been over a year of abuse since it was last set up so I'll play around with it then
So, the covers are off for an early start to the 2016 season - and the car can say hello to its new stablemate, too! Both in equally desperate need of a wash, but still seemed worth a photo.
For the first time, we had a non-starter. I always disconnect the negative terminal when leaving the car for more than a week, but this time it didn't want to turn over anyway. Was absolutely fine with a jump from the big Six, and ran OK. Not currently taxed or insured so I couldn't go for a drive but all seemed in order.
I dropped the oil out, for no real reason other than I felt it deserved it after 18 months and a thousand track miles.. Came out still golden and feeling as smooth as new, I was very impressed! That's Mobil 1 0W/40, I've never used anything else in my BMWs and this justifies it nicely.
The next outing is Oulton Park on Friday, half the day spent in this and the other half in an RX-8 a friend just bought - that was one of the alternatives, so it'll be very interesting to see how they compare. Looking forward to it!
For the first time, we had a non-starter. I always disconnect the negative terminal when leaving the car for more than a week, but this time it didn't want to turn over anyway. Was absolutely fine with a jump from the big Six, and ran OK. Not currently taxed or insured so I couldn't go for a drive but all seemed in order.
I dropped the oil out, for no real reason other than I felt it deserved it after 18 months and a thousand track miles.. Came out still golden and feeling as smooth as new, I was very impressed! That's Mobil 1 0W/40, I've never used anything else in my BMWs and this justifies it nicely.
The next outing is Oulton Park on Friday, half the day spent in this and the other half in an RX-8 a friend just bought - that was one of the alternatives, so it'll be very interesting to see how they compare. Looking forward to it!
Excellent day at Oulton Park with MSVT last Friday. It started out really cold and a little frosty on track, but that soon cleared up and by lunchtime even Druids and Lodge were feeling grippy. We were on the Island layout, a bit of a demotion from the advertised International circuit but incomplete construction at Shell Oils meant there was no other option. It was still a lovely circuit to drive, I'll certainly be returning.
I had my time split between the E36 and a friend's newly purchased RX-8:
There are 228,000 miles in that photo.. 79% of them on my car for a standard road car, I was very impressed with the RX-8. It felt nicely balanced, the pedal layout and weight was decent, the gearshift good and the engine constantly begging to be revved out. It needed more serious brake pads in it and was a touch too soft when you started pushing really hard, but a very pleasant thing to drive on track and certainly a good starting point. It did feel a little gutless, mind, and despite an alleged 40bhp advantage and very similar weight and gearing, the E36 outpaced it down the straights.
Getting back into the E36 felt strange, by comparison it's actually a bit of a nightmare ergonomically, but it all made sense once I started to push it. The car felt great and ran without fault for 45 laps in the afternoon. This was the first chance I'd had to do sustained sessions in the dry with my Mintex 1155 front and 1144 rear pads, and I was impressed to find no fade whatsoever. The rears are shot now though, and I'm trying to work out whether the 740 track miles they managed is good enough, or if I should go for a more heavy-duty option. Open to suggestions on that.
Here's a few trackside photos, and some footage from a session at the end of the day where I went out behind acquaintances in a K-series Elise, a Toyota-engined Elise and an N/A VX220. Very satisfying run, and my fastest lap was a 1'49.3. For reference, the best we could get out of the RX-8 was a 2'01.6, but with a passenger and a couple of seconds lost behind an Elise at the end of the lap. A clean solo run might have seen a 1'57 or so.
https://youtu.be/R7Or11r4cpY
I had my time split between the E36 and a friend's newly purchased RX-8:
There are 228,000 miles in that photo.. 79% of them on my car
for a standard road car, I was very impressed with the RX-8. It felt nicely balanced, the pedal layout and weight was decent, the gearshift good and the engine constantly begging to be revved out. It needed more serious brake pads in it and was a touch too soft when you started pushing really hard, but a very pleasant thing to drive on track and certainly a good starting point. It did feel a little gutless, mind, and despite an alleged 40bhp advantage and very similar weight and gearing, the E36 outpaced it down the straights.Getting back into the E36 felt strange, by comparison it's actually a bit of a nightmare ergonomically, but it all made sense once I started to push it. The car felt great and ran without fault for 45 laps in the afternoon. This was the first chance I'd had to do sustained sessions in the dry with my Mintex 1155 front and 1144 rear pads, and I was impressed to find no fade whatsoever. The rears are shot now though, and I'm trying to work out whether the 740 track miles they managed is good enough, or if I should go for a more heavy-duty option. Open to suggestions on that.
Here's a few trackside photos, and some footage from a session at the end of the day where I went out behind acquaintances in a K-series Elise, a Toyota-engined Elise and an N/A VX220. Very satisfying run, and my fastest lap was a 1'49.3. For reference, the best we could get out of the RX-8 was a 2'01.6, but with a passenger and a couple of seconds lost behind an Elise at the end of the lap. A clean solo run might have seen a 1'57 or so.
https://youtu.be/R7Or11r4cpY
McSam said:
Now I know, it's from reading this thread!
I took those photos, car looked well and sounded great!
BMW E36 328i R233KAN - photo by Retro-Motoring
Ahah, you should have said hello! I ended up buying this car for exactly the same reason, I was idly browsing Auto Trader and saw an advert with a photo I knew I'd seen before - it was from Synchromesh's thread on here!
Nice work with the camera, some really good shots on your website, and it's good of you to make decent-res ones freely available
Thanks for the kind words - I've always been interested to know how the car sounds from the outside, it's probably really quiet from the rear but it's the approach with the induction noise that I'd like to hear! Will have to let someone loose in it on their own sometime and find out.
Nice work with the camera, some really good shots on your website, and it's good of you to make decent-res ones freely available
Thanks for the kind words - I've always been interested to know how the car sounds from the outside, it's probably really quiet from the rear but it's the approach with the induction noise that I'd like to hear! Will have to let someone loose in it on their own sometime and find out.
McSam said:
Ahah, you should have said hello! I ended up buying this car for exactly the same reason, I was idly browsing Auto Trader and saw an advert with a photo I knew I'd seen before - it was from Synchromesh's thread on here!
Nice work with the camera, some really good shots on your website, and it's good of you to make decent-res ones freely available
Thanks for the kind words - I've always been interested to know how the car sounds from the outside, it's probably really quiet from the rear but it's the approach with the induction noise that I'd like to hear! Will have to let someone loose in it on their own sometime and find out.
If I see you there again I definitely will! It actually sounded great accelerating out of Lodge and up Deer Leap, classic BMW straight six. I wouldn't say it was muted, but it wasn't harsh like they can be.Nice work with the camera, some really good shots on your website, and it's good of you to make decent-res ones freely available
Thanks for the kind words - I've always been interested to know how the car sounds from the outside, it's probably really quiet from the rear but it's the approach with the induction noise that I'd like to hear! Will have to let someone loose in it on their own sometime and find out.
Sometimes I think it's a shame that I have two cylinders less in my E36 318i and it doesn't sound the same, I'll probably end up with a six when it needs replacing but that's hopefully a few years off yet!
McSam said:
The car felt great and ran without fault for 45 laps in the afternoon. This was the first chance I'd had to do sustained sessions in the dry with my Mintex 1155 front and 1144 rear pads, and I was impressed to find no fade whatsoever. The rears are shot now though, and I'm trying to work out whether the 740 track miles they managed is good enough, or if I should go for a more heavy-duty option. Open to suggestions on that.
I still can't recommend the performance friction carbon metallic pads highly enough. My fronts have done thousands of track miles and two euro trips, with about 50% of the pad left. The rears have done Snetterton, Brands, Silvertone, Oulton, Bedford twice and Spa. They still look new!Hamster69 said:
I still can't recommend the performance friction carbon metallic pads highly enough. My fronts have done thousands of track miles and two euro trips, with about 50% of the pad left. The rears have done Snetterton, Brands, Silvertone, Oulton, Bedford twice and Spa. They still look new!
Wow! I was thinking they were a bit expensive, but in that context they sound like very good value indeed. darrenw said:
If I see you there again I definitely will! It actually sounded great accelerating out of Lodge and up Deer Leap, classic BMW straight six. I wouldn't say it was muted, but it wasn't harsh like they can be.
Sometimes I think it's a shame that I have two cylinders less in my E36 318i and it doesn't sound the same, I'll probably end up with a six when it needs replacing but that's hopefully a few years off yet!
Excellent, glad to hear it Sometimes I think it's a shame that I have two cylinders less in my E36 318i and it doesn't sound the same, I'll probably end up with a six when it needs replacing but that's hopefully a few years off yet!
thanks! Certainly good from the inside. You do at least have rather less weight to carry around than I do..anonymous said:
[redacted]
Cheers! If you want to try this one, just let me know.. you'd only be the eighth person to drive me in it Hamster69 said:
I still can't recommend the performance friction carbon metallic pads highly enough. My fronts have done thousands of track miles and two euro trips, with about 50% of the pad left. The rears have done Snetterton, Brands, Silvertone, Oulton, Bedford twice and Spa. They still look new!
Hmmm. Which compound are you using, and where did you source them from? The price list I saw suggested £415 for a car set of the 08s, so they'd need to be bloody good, to pay back against the Mintex they'd need to do 3,000 miles! For comparison, Carbone Lorraine RC6 are £282, Ferodo DS3000 £240, EBC Bluestuff £148 and Mintex 1155/1144 £118. I am prepared to pay for something special, but I think even the CLs might be the limit..
Mmmm, premium goodness for the PistonShed. New Brembo high-carbon rear discs, a Meyle front wheel bearing to even up the one I already changed, and Performance Friction Z-rated .11-compound pads for front and rear. Only the rears are going on for now, as my Mintex 1155s still have something left to give on the front, but I'm really keen to try them out.
I ordered them from http://www.part-box.com/ run by Co-ordSport, who gave me truly excellent service, well recommended. The whole lot came to a hair over £250, which I'm quite pleased with.
Sorry, been a bit busy and didn't get around to posting an update! In a word, excellent. It's hard to say much about absolute performance because I only had the rears in, but they haven't worn past the edge chamfers, so essentially showing no signs of use at all yet and I did 140 hard miles in pretty long sessions. This is the first time I've been able to push with no regard for my brakes at Bedford, and the Mintex 1155 front / Performance Friction Z-rated rear combination stood up without any complaint. Very pleased.
I also managed to lop two seconds off my personal best at Bedford, down to a 3'02.15 according to the footage - that wasn't perfect either, with some traffic slowing me at one point, leaving a sub-three minute lap tantalisingly close.
Next up is a sprint at Blyton Park, before that I want to get the front left wheel bearing changed (seems to be following the already-replaced RH one out). I'm also finally, finally going to get some weight out. You heard it here first!
Oh, and for any Mighty Car Mods fans, my housemate got us little presents before we went to Bedford..
I also managed to lop two seconds off my personal best at Bedford, down to a 3'02.15 according to the footage - that wasn't perfect either, with some traffic slowing me at one point, leaving a sub-three minute lap tantalisingly close.
Next up is a sprint at Blyton Park, before that I want to get the front left wheel bearing changed (seems to be following the already-replaced RH one out). I'm also finally, finally going to get some weight out. You heard it here first!
Oh, and for any Mighty Car Mods fans, my housemate got us little presents before we went to Bedford..
Absolutely, thanks for the tip. We'll see what they're really like when the fronts go on.
In other news, this car is now absolutely screaming for an LSD, but they seem far harder to find than back when I first bought it. I'd like to go a bit shorter, but I would not like to change the whole subframe, so I think that means 3.0 M3, 325i Sport or 318is. Anyone know of any?
In other news, this car is now absolutely screaming for an LSD, but they seem far harder to find than back when I first bought it. I'd like to go a bit shorter, but I would not like to change the whole subframe, so I think that means 3.0 M3, 325i Sport or 318is. Anyone know of any?
I know of an e36 with LSD - I fitted it before I sold the car. Dont know if the new owner would sell it on but you never know. What would you offer for it? PM me if you like. I will ask the new owner. You could try Lewis Hayler at BMW Enthusiasts nr Peterborough - he is the man for spares.
Thanks for the tip - I didn't get back to you straight away because I had another in the offing, and voila:
This is a 3.15 LSD in a Typ 188 casing, originally from a 3.0 M3 - but happily enough, it had been run in a 328i rally car for a while, so it's known to be working properly and already has the correct output flanges on it! I was determined to get it on the car before a sprint at Blyton yesterday, but unfortunately nobody told the car. It was all going well, I had new replacement fixings for everything I was going to touch in good preparation, I had absolutely everything undone and ready except for the left-hand driveshaft bolts, and after ten minutes trying to get tools onto the first one, this happened..
Honestly, bolts with male Torx heads are the work of the devil. With that snapped off, I was left with a plain round flange and no way of turning it, so it's either cut it (and presumably the other five) off or drill it out, with little to no access. I didn't have the kit, space or time to deal with that, so had to reassemble the car as it started... Five hours later and off for the world's most disappointing shakedown: "Yep, it feels really nice, good car this. Exactly the same it was this morning."
I now had to find another way to get some performance. So I took to removing everything that the car no longer needs, stripping it as far as I could without reducing function or making the front less inhabitable - as I drive it to events it still has a full audio system, for example, and I haven't deleted the air con yet - but I still got to 72kg, which I'm quite pleased with. I have a list I can type up if anyone's interested/anal enough/really bored.
On to the event, then.. when I saw this thing on the entry list I didn't really believe it, but there it was basking in the sunshine:
Just lovely. How to feel like a poor relation - park next to the immaculate E30 M3 race car! Poverty spec though she may be, my car felt pretty good around Blyton's Eastern layout and despite having excess fuel on board was feeling noticeably better off for her diet. I think I might need some new semi-slicks though - going from my trusty Nankang NS-2Rs to the pretty knackered Kumho KU31s I've always used for sprinting, I was able to match my quickest laptime in our morning "track day" format. Too many heat cycles on the Nankangs, methinks, because they used to feel quite a bit stickier in direct comparison like that.
To the timed runs: the class record I set previously was a 1'20.63, and I got off to a good start with a 1'20.87 on my first run. With a few scrappy runs in between, I then managed to set not one but two 1'20.21s, both feeling like they'd left time on the table in different parts of the circuit.. this was a decent chunk off my previous best, but so close to getting under the 1'20 barrier that I couldn't let it lie. Happily, at 5:02pm, my "last chance plus one" run looked like this:
https://youtu.be/n5DjbbhwAow
1'19.86
This is a 3.15 LSD in a Typ 188 casing, originally from a 3.0 M3 - but happily enough, it had been run in a 328i rally car for a while, so it's known to be working properly and already has the correct output flanges on it! I was determined to get it on the car before a sprint at Blyton yesterday, but unfortunately nobody told the car. It was all going well, I had new replacement fixings for everything I was going to touch in good preparation, I had absolutely everything undone and ready except for the left-hand driveshaft bolts, and after ten minutes trying to get tools onto the first one, this happened..
Honestly, bolts with male Torx heads are the work of the devil. With that snapped off, I was left with a plain round flange and no way of turning it, so it's either cut it (and presumably the other five) off or drill it out, with little to no access. I didn't have the kit, space or time to deal with that, so had to reassemble the car as it started... Five hours later and off for the world's most disappointing shakedown: "Yep, it feels really nice, good car this. Exactly the same it was this morning."
I now had to find another way to get some performance. So I took to removing everything that the car no longer needs, stripping it as far as I could without reducing function or making the front less inhabitable - as I drive it to events it still has a full audio system, for example, and I haven't deleted the air con yet - but I still got to 72kg, which I'm quite pleased with. I have a list I can type up if anyone's interested/anal enough/really bored.
On to the event, then.. when I saw this thing on the entry list I didn't really believe it, but there it was basking in the sunshine:
Just lovely. How to feel like a poor relation - park next to the immaculate E30 M3 race car! Poverty spec though she may be, my car felt pretty good around Blyton's Eastern layout and despite having excess fuel on board was feeling noticeably better off for her diet. I think I might need some new semi-slicks though - going from my trusty Nankang NS-2Rs to the pretty knackered Kumho KU31s I've always used for sprinting, I was able to match my quickest laptime in our morning "track day" format. Too many heat cycles on the Nankangs, methinks, because they used to feel quite a bit stickier in direct comparison like that.
To the timed runs: the class record I set previously was a 1'20.63, and I got off to a good start with a 1'20.87 on my first run. With a few scrappy runs in between, I then managed to set not one but two 1'20.21s, both feeling like they'd left time on the table in different parts of the circuit.. this was a decent chunk off my previous best, but so close to getting under the 1'20 barrier that I couldn't let it lie. Happily, at 5:02pm, my "last chance plus one" run looked like this:
https://youtu.be/n5DjbbhwAow
1'19.86
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