M///Shed (M3 Evo content)
Discussion
Before some of you get too excited, I didn’t pick this up for “shed of the week“ money, but this definitely comes from the barrel scraping end of the M car market.
That fine point where, as long any there isn’t anything too terminally wrong with the engine (which is far from assured), the cars value is greater in parts than it is together.
To cut a long story short, my suggestion to put coilovers on my 130i to improve its trackday performance was met with disapproval from the girlfriend (who steals the keys at every opportunity) so the hunt was on for a new semi-track car.
I was all set to buy a clio 172 cup until a mate convinced me to enter the ropey end of the M3 market.
Now I’ve always said there is no such thing as a cheap BMW. I’ve proved this theory before and this little adventure may just prove it again.
Here is the last picture I have of my previous cheap BMW experiment 6 years ago.
Putting that aside, I looked at a number of cars and it would be fair to say E36 M3’s are getting fairly rare and you are beginning to reach a stage of having to take what you can get. After viewing a number of different cars a deal was done.
A picture on the way home from collecting the car.
Don’t let the photo fool you, I think the bonnet badge better sets the tone.
It’s not the worst M3 I have ever seen. It not even the second or third but it would be fair to say I won’t be winning any concourse events in the near future.
Its not all bad. The car came with a full service history backed with wedge of receipts (mainly for tyres but proof of VANOs filter changes), a decent slug of MOT, an original BMW tool kit, torch and what looks like the still plastic wrapped original first aid kit.
Flicking through the history, is looks like the car was owned by a guy in Essex for the last 10 years. He sold it recently to the person I purchased it off. I was told the vendor had another baby on the way so it was being replaced by an estate but I couldn’t help but wonder whether the seller had done the sums on the impending bills and decided this cheap M3 was anything but.
I don’t like buying cars I know have faults, it makes me uncomfortable. I take the view that if I can spot issues in a 10 minutes’ walk around just imagine how many there really are.
My 10 minute walk around told me;
• Rear tyres were down to the marker
• The spare wheel had no tyre on it
• The rear dampers were leaking
• Rear arches had some rust and there was a tiny spot on bubbling by the boot lid.
• A number of the bushes were shot
• The rear leather seats that look like somebody had carried live stock or given birth on them.
• Brake discs had sizable lips on all round (but decent pads)
I took the view that none of this really mattered for what I had in mind and hoped I hadn’t missed too much. That and the fact that the list of faults was fairly tame compared to some of the others I had seen.
The drive home and subsequent ownership have further confirmed;
• First gear and reverse pretty much disappeared once the gearbox has become warm (common problem caused by the rubber clutch line I’m told (hope))
• The heater is stuck on cold (I checked that the aircon worked but not the heater blew warm. Typical)
• The passenger seat doesn’t appear to fold down
• It has heated seats. These don’t work
• Drivers side tie rod ball joint was shot (although this was a point for debate)
Thankfully a subsequent look underneath on a two post lift seems to suggest (time will tell) that it’s fundamentally a solid car underneath (for what is a cheap M3).
The plan is to use it as a clubsport track car by upgrading the brakes, suspension and bushes and go driving.
I am already having to hold myself back from making it mint. I found myself looking at leather seat restorers the other day so we shall see how this pans out. This could get expensive.
First job was to book a slot at a self-service garage to give me access to a lift.
First job was change the front wishbone bushes with polybushed items.
As was the way with these things, while one bush took all of 10 minutes to change (helped by access to hydraulic presses at the garage) the other one took about two hours as it refused to slide off the wishbone. An electric drill and fire eventually solved the problem.
I had hoped to fit the coilovers that day but it turned out that most of the suspension nuts had locktight applied at some point making removal difficult.
Having failed to remove the bolts with my trusty ebay Snap-on air wrench, bent a breaker bar and having damaged one of the nut heads in the process I decided to call that a day and focus on the easy stuff and swapped the brakes over and bled the hydraulic lines.
Stripping the brakes back revealed that the car generally still contained original BMW parts including the expensive floating discs which is always a good sign.
I used www.rampandwrench.co.uk to hire the lift and I can’t recommend them enough. Half an hour before closing time I brought the car down to pack up and found the clutch went floor.
To cut a long story down, when bleeding the clutch line it turns out BMW recommend you use a pressured bleed kit. What they actually mean is it’s impossible to do the normal way and you will fill your clutch line with air if you try.
The guys helped me fix the issue past closing time to get me on my way even though really it was my own daft fault for not reading up on the subject properly and not bleeding the system under pressure, so top marks to them.
With time against me before my next track day, I decided to cheat and booked into a local garage to fit the coilovers, fit the rear trailing arm bushes and swap my clutch line over (cause of the poor gear change), as the connector had seized meaning I was unable to change it while it was on the lift.
This however wasn’t quite as successful as I had hoped. The clutch line and bushes were sorted but the car returned still on the same old suspension.
Turns out that you need spacers to fit HSD’s to an E36 M3, not that there is any mention of this in the product specs, the instructions or on the phone by the guys who sold them to me. It would have been nice to know that before I had handed the car over.
Hence a phone call from the garage telling me they had swapped over the front suspension and the wheels wouldn’t go back on.
Luckily I managed to fit the suspension myself on my driveway in-between the 15 other jobs and the intermittent rain showers we had over Easter, in preparation for the 15mm spacers I had on order.
Removing the old dampers highlighted just how done they were.
With the suspension on, the new spacers were fitted giving the required clearance allowing me to drop the car back onto its wheels.
However its first track day was not to be, as taking the car round the corner to get the alignment sorted highlighted that one of the inner track rod ends was knackered.
A quick dash round the local motor factors failed to turn up the required part, which was doubly irritating as I had already dropped the car into a different garage a week before to investigate the track rods and the car was given the all clear.
That is the story so far. I’ve brought a fairly tired M3 and made it slightly less tired but with more work to go.
What next? Well I get married in a few months so the car is going to take a back burner for a bit, however I plan to do the following in the next few months.
- Swap the VANOS filter and bolts over with the new set I have sitting on my desk
- Sort out the rear arches
- Get the track rod sorted
- Strip down the heater to get it blowing warm air
- Chase down some of the oil leaks and decide if I am that bothered by them to fix them
Longer term the plan is to get some track days in later this year so we shall see.
Edited by (steven) on Sunday 16th October 13:25
Edited by (steven) on Sunday 16th October 13:35
Good write up, I've been down this route in the past... And also fell foul of the spacer issue when fitting PSS9's.
Did anyone mention to you about swapping the front top mounts over to give you more -ve camber. Transformed the turn in on my Evo ... And it's free!.. Which became a refreshing change as things went on!
Did anyone mention to you about swapping the front top mounts over to give you more -ve camber. Transformed the turn in on my Evo ... And it's free!.. Which became a refreshing change as things went on!
mark.c said:
Did anyone mention to you about swapping the front top mounts over to give you more -ve camber. Transformed the turn in on my Evo ... And it's free!.. Which became a refreshing change as things went on!
Good shout except I've already gone down the adjustable top mounts route which came with the HSD's I've put on. More tips of free upgrade appreciated though!With the next track day in the diary, I’ve started the final push to get the car usable so I can find out whether the car will take being used on track. I hoping yes, otherwise is going to have been an expensive day out.
When I purchased the car, it had supposedly just been serviced although checking the car over, the definition of service appears to have been oil change.
Therefore I decided to replace any service item I didn’t like the look of.
The apologetic request for £70 of the Queens finest from the guy at the GFS parts desk for 6 spark plugs pretty much sums up the situation when running one these cars. The running costs have not depreciated with the purchase price.
Uncovering the coils shows it’s still running original coils all round but at £30 each, I might get it on a diagnostic machine before I start replacing them.
While not brand new, the air filter looks new enough so for now I have left that all where it is. It would be annoying to replace all that stuff only for the engine to let go on the first track day.
However I have taken the opportunity to swap out the VANO’s filter. The old one looked reassuring clean which is always a good sign.
I also got a new set of calliper bleed bolts and replaced the front passenger side nipple as it was so corroded I couldn’t get a spanner on it to bleed the brakes.
I had to file the old one down so I could get enough leverage to remove it. It does focus the mind somewhat knowing that, as your filing, if it doesn’t work you’re going to need to stump up for a new calliper.
I also swapped out one of the hub bolts that I had made a mess of when changing the suspension. BMW wanted over £30 for 10, so I ordered some stainless steel ones off the internet for about a tenth of the price per nut.
Back when I started this project I had to endure a particularly chilly drive to drive to a self-service garage as the heating didn’t work and I was keen to get that fixed.
Reading around, the suggestion was it most likely to be heater control valve and at over £200 for a new one, the starting point was to strip down the old one to see if it could be revived.
Opening it up, I discovered a bit of gunk and a broken wire (although I half suspect I broke the wire opening it up). I soldered the wire back together, cleaned out the mechanism and lined it with PTFE to help the mechanism move more freely.
Reinstalling the valve revealed that I now have half working heating. The digital temperature control still doesn’t seem to do seem to do that much but there is a manual adjuster below the central heating vent which now turns the heating from cold to very hot, so that will do for now.
I’ve also reinstalled the boot lining from when I replaced the suspension, the steering is fixed, so all I need to do is get the alignment done and it should be “ready” to go.
It will be interesting to see how it does at Bedford and let’s hope nothing to major decides to call it a day (or anything for that matter).
I might just get it on the ramp for one last inspection though...
So only 4 months later than planned, I finally made it out on track at Bedford in August.
Here it is with a friend’s equally ropey track M3 (and another friends rather lovely CSL. When we said we were all going to buy old M3’s for track days……).
Other than my undertray coming loose half way through the day, the MShed proved that with a little bit of TLC, it was able to mix it with the big boys.
I have to say, that given this car is 17 years old, I was seriously impressed with its capability.
When I find a couple of minutes, I am going to get a quote for getting the rear arches sorted as that is the most pressing issue to the car’s life expectancy.
Other than that, the only near term issues I have is with the alignment and the brakes.
I had the car aligned before the last track day but the only way to adjust the HSD’s is to drop the suspension arms and that seems to bring out most alignment places in a rash. (Any recommendations in the east midlands greatly appreciated).
Therefore I’m currently running with a slight front camber and caster imbalance and the rear camber bolts are seized so the net impact seems to be a slight pull to left which becomes noticeable on motorway runs.
I keep finding my mind turning to cleaning up the interior as every thread on the matter seems to suggest these cars are appreciating faster than the central London housing market although I am unconvinced as yet.
I also fancy a big brake kit but I think in the short term at least, a set of R29’s may well be the sum total of the investment.
Here it is with a friend’s equally ropey track M3 (and another friends rather lovely CSL. When we said we were all going to buy old M3’s for track days……).
Other than my undertray coming loose half way through the day, the MShed proved that with a little bit of TLC, it was able to mix it with the big boys.
I have to say, that given this car is 17 years old, I was seriously impressed with its capability.
When I find a couple of minutes, I am going to get a quote for getting the rear arches sorted as that is the most pressing issue to the car’s life expectancy.
Other than that, the only near term issues I have is with the alignment and the brakes.
I had the car aligned before the last track day but the only way to adjust the HSD’s is to drop the suspension arms and that seems to bring out most alignment places in a rash. (Any recommendations in the east midlands greatly appreciated).
Therefore I’m currently running with a slight front camber and caster imbalance and the rear camber bolts are seized so the net impact seems to be a slight pull to left which becomes noticeable on motorway runs.
I keep finding my mind turning to cleaning up the interior as every thread on the matter seems to suggest these cars are appreciating faster than the central London housing market although I am unconvinced as yet.
I also fancy a big brake kit but I think in the short term at least, a set of R29’s may well be the sum total of the investment.
Edited by (steven) on Sunday 16th October 15:10
This is a great read, half because I really rather like the look of your car and your approach, and half because I've done most of it myself on my E36!
Out of interest, how much spacing did you need for the HSDs in the end? Have you gone for Dualtech (like me) or Monopro? Very impressed with mine so far but not that impressed with my "just-in-case" 5mm spacers being nowhere near what was required, it's now on 15mm hubcentric ones plus the 5mm cheapies to clear the strut acceptable..
Done front lower wishbone rear bushes on my E46, pending on the E36, and I foresaw that they might not want to come off the wishbone but given the state and accessibility of some of the bolts had no intention of removing the whole arm. This was my solution
Great fire and furious anger still required to get all of the crap oil-filled bush out, though, and then it still needed a hacksaw to remove the steel collar around it. A steel collar inside an aluminium housing, I ask you..
Where abouts in the East Midlands are you based? Can't be far
Out of interest, how much spacing did you need for the HSDs in the end? Have you gone for Dualtech (like me) or Monopro? Very impressed with mine so far but not that impressed with my "just-in-case" 5mm spacers being nowhere near what was required, it's now on 15mm hubcentric ones plus the 5mm cheapies to clear the strut acceptable..
Done front lower wishbone rear bushes on my E46, pending on the E36, and I foresaw that they might not want to come off the wishbone but given the state and accessibility of some of the bolts had no intention of removing the whole arm. This was my solution
Great fire and furious anger still required to get all of the crap oil-filled bush out, though, and then it still needed a hacksaw to remove the steel collar around it. A steel collar inside an aluminium housing, I ask you..
Where abouts in the East Midlands are you based? Can't be far
Edited by McSam on Wednesday 10th September 10:38
Good thread, look forward to the updates.
For info, my Evo had to have 15mm spacers for the HSD's.
I now have 20mm on as the Federal tyres are a bit wide.
Interested to hear who you use for alignment. Center Gravity near Tamworth are the place to go for the best setup but it will cost.
This is mine if interested, sort of Club Sport... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
For info, my Evo had to have 15mm spacers for the HSD's.
I now have 20mm on as the Federal tyres are a bit wide.
Interested to hear who you use for alignment. Center Gravity near Tamworth are the place to go for the best setup but it will cost.
This is mine if interested, sort of Club Sport... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
martin mrt said:
Try Simpson Motorsport for the suspension set up
Thanks for the tip, will look into that.McSam said:
Out of interest, how much spacing did you need for the HSDs in the end? Have you gone for Dualtech (like me) or Monopro?
Where abouts in the East Midlands are you based? Can't be far
I’m in Notts. The car is running Monopro’s with 15mm hubcentric ebay special spacers. That’s the same amount of spacing as the purple M3 in the picture although he has just moved up to 20mm to accommodate a big brake setup if I remember correctly and he is running D2's.Where abouts in the East Midlands are you based? Can't be far
Your 328 looks good. I’ve just been through your thread and it looks like you are suffering from the same bleed screw issue I had. I filed down the sides flat so I could get an adjustable spanner on it and then replaced it with a new bleed screw I got off ebay and then bled the lines.
BullyB said:
Center Gravity near Tamworth are the place to go for the best setup but it will cost.
I’ll look into them, if only for comedy value but the price of paying guys not to do the job properly is beginning to rack up so it may make sense. You have another quality project there.
I think you may vaguely know the owner of the purple M3 in the picture. At the risk of making this a bit of a E36 track car love in, his build thread is over in the Bmw section here.
Where did you get your roll cage done by the way? I’m torn between getting something like that and leaving the car in a position where I can go back to stock.
steven said:
I’m in Notts. The car is running Monopro’s with 15mm hubcentric ebay special spacers. That’s the same amount of spacing as the purple M3 in the picture although he has just moved up to 20mm to accommodate a big brake setup if I remember correctly and he is running D2's.
Your 328 looks good. I’ve just been through your thread and it looks like you are suffering from the same bleed screw issue I had. I filed down the sides flat so I could get an adjustable spanner on it and then replaced it with a new bleed screw I got off ebay and then bled the lines
Thanks for all the info, glad you like the car! It's good to know that's two of you in M3s getting away with 15mm spacers, at the minute I have 15mm+5mm but that's because my replacement wheel bolts turned out too long and would foul the backing plate without the extra 5mm Your 328 looks good. I’ve just been through your thread and it looks like you are suffering from the same bleed screw issue I had. I filed down the sides flat so I could get an adjustable spanner on it and then replaced it with a new bleed screw I got off ebay and then bled the lines
by the sounds of it, if I get the correct length bolts I'll be fine at 15mm.How have you found the Monopros so far? I'm mega impressed with my Dualtechs, great value and they seem more than up to the job. Playing around with the dampers to see what settings work best.
If my rear brakes feel adequate with proper pads in, then I might go down the same route to get the rear caliper bleed screws sorted out. But if it still feels lacking in stopping power, the calipers might be changing anyway!
Yes, I know the Panzer!
My roll cage is a cup cage from Custom Cages.
I got it sent direct to Willie Poole Motorsport Services
http://www.wp-ms.co.uk/Willie_Poole_Motorsport_Ser...
Willie also did my harness mounts.
Center Gravity: http://www.centregravity.co.uk
I went to a Porsche demo day there and they are great. Give them a call and see what you think.
I will take my M3 when I finally get the time.
My roll cage is a cup cage from Custom Cages.
I got it sent direct to Willie Poole Motorsport Services
http://www.wp-ms.co.uk/Willie_Poole_Motorsport_Ser...
Willie also did my harness mounts.
Center Gravity: http://www.centregravity.co.uk
I went to a Porsche demo day there and they are great. Give them a call and see what you think.
I will take my M3 when I finally get the time.
McSam said:
How have you found the Monopros so far?
I’m pretty happy with them in so much that they allow me to corner with greater speed on the track and run more extreme geo than the standard road car, which is what I bought them to do. The real deal closer for me was they could replicate the EVO’s stock caster angle whereas a lot of the competition either couldn’t or were unclear if it was possible.
Suspension wise, whether or not they are better or worse than any comparable model at that price point I couldn’t really say.
To make the product perfect, I do think the fitting and setup instructions could be a lot better and the product would need to be easier to adjust when on the car. Plus the front suspension is really low, even when set to the highest setting. I wouldn’t like to try and put the car on a trailer with its current setup.
To adjust the damping adjustment knob on the front you have to jack the car up (it’s an inverted design) and I suspect that will get old (I run softer settings when driving to and from the track) and the fact you have to take the car apart to adjust the camber is also a bit of a shame, as a friend has D2’s on his car and I have watched him adjust his camber with nothing more than an allen key and his foot.
BullyB said:
My roll cage is a cup cage from Custom Cages.
Thanks!.Edited by (steven) on Monday 16th February 20:16
So it’s probably time for an update on the MShed. My natural tendency to want to fix stuff got the better of me and I couldn’t take a moment longer of looking at the rusty arches:
So with the help of my local body shop I got the arches cut out and replaced.
Even they commented how straight the rest of the exterior was for its age which is always reassuring (although they agreed with my assessment of the interior).
On the way home from the body shop I dropped the car off for an MOT which it passed first time.
With the car ready to roll, I got a late track day at Bedford in November. Another great day and really built up some speed over the day, although on the last lap of the day I nearly suffered the curse of the new bodywork by taking a trip over the grass:
A little too much speed through one of the high speed corners saw the tail come round faster than I would like.
Over the winter break I’ve fitted a few upgrades, focusing on the brakes as despite high temperature race fluid I was still getting brake fade. Reading the reviews on here I went pagid RC29’s and the rears with blue stuff.
Night and day difference in performance compared to my original setup of EBC blue stuff on the front and yellow stuff on the rear, although given the cost I would hope so.
The yellow stuff pads were completely destroyed after two track days. Definitely not suitable for the M3’s power/weight combination.
On the front, the heat build up is getting so much that I managed to melt the pad sensor before it touched the disc.
I might need that big brake kit after all.
I also cracked on with some servicing items, replacing the engine and diff oil. I also planned to replace the oil level sensor although it turns out the sensor I purchased had the wrong connector so I will have to put up with the warning light for a bit longer.
First track day of the season at Donnington park confirmed the effectiveness of the new brake setup and also pointed the way to the next upgrade, the seats.
Towards the end of the day I was getting lower back ache from having to hold myself in my seat, even with a CG lock and I’ve still got a few bruises on my legs from bracing myself against the transmission tunnel.
Unnecessary group shot from Donny.
That pretty much brings me up to date. Still a few jobs to do on the car as ever. I’m getting a few drips from the power steering and I want to change the gearbox fluid at some point but with a 1,000 miles under the cars belt, mainly on or going to trackdays I’m making progress.
Just need to finish my garage so I have somewhere to store it.
So with the help of my local body shop I got the arches cut out and replaced.
Even they commented how straight the rest of the exterior was for its age which is always reassuring (although they agreed with my assessment of the interior).
On the way home from the body shop I dropped the car off for an MOT which it passed first time.
With the car ready to roll, I got a late track day at Bedford in November. Another great day and really built up some speed over the day, although on the last lap of the day I nearly suffered the curse of the new bodywork by taking a trip over the grass:
A little too much speed through one of the high speed corners saw the tail come round faster than I would like.
Over the winter break I’ve fitted a few upgrades, focusing on the brakes as despite high temperature race fluid I was still getting brake fade. Reading the reviews on here I went pagid RC29’s and the rears with blue stuff.
Night and day difference in performance compared to my original setup of EBC blue stuff on the front and yellow stuff on the rear, although given the cost I would hope so.
The yellow stuff pads were completely destroyed after two track days. Definitely not suitable for the M3’s power/weight combination.
On the front, the heat build up is getting so much that I managed to melt the pad sensor before it touched the disc.
I might need that big brake kit after all.
I also cracked on with some servicing items, replacing the engine and diff oil. I also planned to replace the oil level sensor although it turns out the sensor I purchased had the wrong connector so I will have to put up with the warning light for a bit longer.
First track day of the season at Donnington park confirmed the effectiveness of the new brake setup and also pointed the way to the next upgrade, the seats.
Towards the end of the day I was getting lower back ache from having to hold myself in my seat, even with a CG lock and I’ve still got a few bruises on my legs from bracing myself against the transmission tunnel.
Unnecessary group shot from Donny.
That pretty much brings me up to date. Still a few jobs to do on the car as ever. I’m getting a few drips from the power steering and I want to change the gearbox fluid at some point but with a 1,000 miles under the cars belt, mainly on or going to trackdays I’m making progress.
Just need to finish my garage so I have somewhere to store it.
Edited by (steven) on Saturday 21st March 20:00
InfamousKeiran said:
I'm surprised how much the M3 saloons are. 
The saloons certainly used to be the ugly step child of the range, but the lower build numbers mean they are becoming rare beasts. Don’t get too caught up with the appreciating value hype, £4K will get you a usable one off ebay if you’re willing to travel and wait for the right one to appear.
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