Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
An update on performance data; I've been in dialogue with Jean-Claude from http://www.asphalte.ch which is a Swiss performance car site that weighs all of the cars it tests. I now have real world data to replace the factory brochure data for the 430, Scuderia, and 458, and: Wow! the factory data is not even representative! I am informed this is the norm by a wide range of manufacturers. McLaren stand out as being accurate.
The effect on the list is quite significant because the Spider models weigh a lot more than their brouchures suggest. In due course I will have my car corner weighted to verify my changes.
F430 Spider F1 CCM = 307.04 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1606 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 493.1 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
16M = 326.66 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1526 kg (unvalidated: F430 Spider F1 minus Ferrari claimed 80kg)
Flywheel power: 498.48 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
F430 Coupe F1 CCM, carbon seats = 334.53 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1474 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 493.1 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
458 Spider = 334.91 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1648.34 kg (unvalidated: 458 Italia plus Ferrari claimed 50.34 kg)
Flywheel power: 552.04 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
458 Italia = 345.46 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1598 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 552.04 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
Scuderia = 350.8 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1421 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 498.48 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
* My car (now) = 359.8 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1505.07 kg (F430 Spider F1 minus 100.93kg)
Flywheel power: 541.52 bhp (Capristo dyno + 10bhp for my airboxes and porting)
* My car (target weight) = 371.92 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1456 kg (F430 Spider F1 minus 150kg)
Flywheel power: 541.52 bhp (Capristo dyno + 10bhp for my airboxes and porting)
* My car (target weight and Scuderia cams) = 378.79 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1456 kg (F430 brochure minus 150kg)
Flywheel power: 551.52 bhp (Capristo dyno + 20bhp for my airboxes, porting, and cams)
458 Speciale = 400.07 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1490.958 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 596.483 bhp (unvalidated: brochure)
* My car (target weight and engine build) = 412.09 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1456 kg (F430 Spider F1 minus 150kg)
Flywheel power: 600 bhp (target 600bhp @ 9000rpm)
The effect on the list is quite significant because the Spider models weigh a lot more than their brouchures suggest. In due course I will have my car corner weighted to verify my changes.
F430 Spider F1 CCM = 307.04 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1606 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 493.1 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
16M = 326.66 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1526 kg (unvalidated: F430 Spider F1 minus Ferrari claimed 80kg)
Flywheel power: 498.48 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
F430 Coupe F1 CCM, carbon seats = 334.53 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1474 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 493.1 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
458 Spider = 334.91 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1648.34 kg (unvalidated: 458 Italia plus Ferrari claimed 50.34 kg)
Flywheel power: 552.04 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
458 Italia = 345.46 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1598 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 552.04 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
Scuderia = 350.8 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1421 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 498.48 bhp (Capristo dyno - avg. of multiple runs)
* My car (now) = 359.8 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1505.07 kg (F430 Spider F1 minus 100.93kg)
Flywheel power: 541.52 bhp (Capristo dyno + 10bhp for my airboxes and porting)
* My car (target weight) = 371.92 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1456 kg (F430 Spider F1 minus 150kg)
Flywheel power: 541.52 bhp (Capristo dyno + 10bhp for my airboxes and porting)
* My car (target weight and Scuderia cams) = 378.79 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1456 kg (F430 brochure minus 150kg)
Flywheel power: 551.52 bhp (Capristo dyno + 20bhp for my airboxes, porting, and cams)
458 Speciale = 400.07 bhp/tonne
Kerb weight: 1490.958 kg ( validated)
Flywheel power: 596.483 bhp (unvalidated: brochure)
* My car (target weight and engine build) = 412.09 bhp/tonne *
Kerb weight: 1456 kg (F430 Spider F1 minus 150kg)
Flywheel power: 600 bhp (target 600bhp @ 9000rpm)
sealtt said:
Those numbers are all very surprising.
Cannot believe the 458 spider has a sub 10% bhp/tonne advantage over the 430 Spider! It drives immensely faster, like different world fast. Can't imagine what a beast yours is going to be like, wow!
Yeah, they are surprising, but also highlight the limitation of using bhp/tonne to compare different models: the torque increase and additional gear on the 458 create an advantage the significance of which is not wholly conveyed by bhp/tonne. It's normally good for a rough idea i.e. "it's close" but that's about it, however it's a useful figure for me on the project to compare the starting point and figure out the weight of the other variants.Cannot believe the 458 spider has a sub 10% bhp/tonne advantage over the 430 Spider! It drives immensely faster, like different world fast. Can't imagine what a beast yours is going to be like, wow!
1/4 mile times would be better if we wanted a more accurate comparison of performance across models.
mwstewart said:
...
the torque increase and additional gear on the 458 create an advantage the significance of which is not wholly conveyed by bhp/tonne.
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETEpDcxJ0YMthe torque increase and additional gear on the 458 create an advantage the significance of which is not wholly conveyed by bhp/tonne.
...
Edited by TartanPaint on Wednesday 9th November 14:17
TartanPaint said:
mwstewart said:
...
the torque increase and additional gear on the 458 create an advantage the significance of which is not wholly conveyed by bhp/tonne.
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETEpDcxJ0YMthe torque increase and additional gear on the 458 create an advantage the significance of which is not wholly conveyed by bhp/tonne.
...
Edited by TartanPaint on Wednesday 9th November 14:17
Both are very quick cars; I wanted a bit more performance so if I'm in their kind of ball park I will be very happy.
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
neilbauer said:
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
Cheapest 16M is £270,000 .... I assume, based on previous posts, it will come in significantly under that and specified to his exact requirements.My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
Trexthedinosaur said:
neilbauer said:
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
Cheapest 16M is £270,000 .... I assume, based on previous posts, it will come in significantly under that and specified to his exact requirements.My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
I knew some of the recent updates had defined a new level of anality, but I'm so caught up in this now I couldn't tackle it any other way.It would of course be a lot easier to buy a ready-made car but the satisfaction and enjoyment from this project are priceless to me. It's been the most enjoyable car related project I've done and something I’ll never forget. I also know from experience it will make the driving experience that bit sweeter.
neilbauer said:
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
I don't think a 16m or any other Ferrari will be screwed together better than this one, where corners appear to have been cut on Ferrari's design/production line, this fella seems to be correcting that creating the perfect platform. The attention to detail is mind blowing. My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
neilbauer said:
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
This just shows how much attention you've paid to the original M3 thread.My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
The M3 CSL (many parts were taken from or inspired from) isn't perfect and has several undesirable spec changes. Conversely, the thread shows the benefits of engineering a car to your own spec and the adjustments put in to truly refine the formula.
The Ferrari is much the same, bringing the very best of the higher model to the existing platform, then refining and adding to it to minimise downfalls and maximise benefits.
It makes perfect sense to me and i'll be modifying whenI buy my own Ferrari too.
C7 JFW said:
neilbauer said:
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
This just shows how much attention you've paid to the original M3 thread.My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
The M3 CSL (many parts were taken from or inspired from) isn't perfect and has several undesirable spec changes. Conversely, the thread shows the benefits of engineering a car to your own spec and the adjustments put in to truly refine the formula.
The Ferrari is much the same, bringing the very best of the higher model to the existing platform, then refining and adding to it to minimise downfalls and maximise benefits.
It makes perfect sense to me and i'll be modifying whenI buy my own Ferrari too.
But I would personally lose the 16M badges as to me it undermines what OP has done making the car to HIS specification. Its a brilliant car, but its not a 16M and doesnt need to pretend to be IMO. It detracts from the work and makes it seem like someone has just tried to make a replica.
p1stonhead said:
C7 JFW said:
neilbauer said:
I've lost my way with this thread a bit.
My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
This just shows how much attention you've paid to the original M3 thread.My issues are you had a real Ferrari F430 and you've now got a 16M replica.
You have spent thousands upon thousands on all of your cars and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.
You could have afforded a real 16M or the real M3 you were building before this.
You have so much talent and skill you could probably build your own car!
So I guess what I'm saying why don't you just buy the car you want?
The M3 CSL (many parts were taken from or inspired from) isn't perfect and has several undesirable spec changes. Conversely, the thread shows the benefits of engineering a car to your own spec and the adjustments put in to truly refine the formula.
The Ferrari is much the same, bringing the very best of the higher model to the existing platform, then refining and adding to it to minimise downfalls and maximise benefits.
It makes perfect sense to me and i'll be modifying whenI buy my own Ferrari too.
But I would personally lose the 16M badges as to me it undermines what OP has done making the car to HIS specification. Its a brilliant car, but its not a 16M and doesnt need to pretend to be IMO. It detracts from the work and makes it seem like someone has just tried to make a replica.
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