Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
ReaderScars said:
OP, you mentioned your thoughts about doing this as a business but that you work too slow.
How about you complete this project, sell it and use the funds to pay for the first year's salaries and take on some skilled guys on - and become project manager as well as tech/engineer?
That way you could take on multiple projects over the year and make a go of it. Although the Singer comparison is interesting, what about being able to turn around an old hot hatch, for instance? Or grabbing a few LHD Renault 5's from France, converting them to RHD and dropping a V6 in the back and making something like a Turbo2 replica?
Or perhaps a business around some type of rebodying and modifying of Mk3 MR2's, for instance? Seems to me you could pretty much do anything that the majority of us PH types would be interested in.
I wouldn't want to employ anyone else - at least initially. I want the freedom of being a sole trader. I am looking at electrification of classics in addition to high quality restos & customisation restos How about you complete this project, sell it and use the funds to pay for the first year's salaries and take on some skilled guys on - and become project manager as well as tech/engineer?
That way you could take on multiple projects over the year and make a go of it. Although the Singer comparison is interesting, what about being able to turn around an old hot hatch, for instance? Or grabbing a few LHD Renault 5's from France, converting them to RHD and dropping a V6 in the back and making something like a Turbo2 replica?
Or perhaps a business around some type of rebodying and modifying of Mk3 MR2's, for instance? Seems to me you could pretty much do anything that the majority of us PH types would be interested in.
Early 360 windscreen washer reservoir
I found during some of my research that early 360's had a very small washer tank. These early cars did not have xenon's and thus not a requirement for headlamp washers either meaning the tank capacity could be lower. Ferrari discontinued this smaller tank when the first xenon's started to appear on the 360, and from that point only supplied the larger tank but with the additional motor hole blanked off for non-xenon cars. The smaller tank presented a meaningful weight saving capacity not from the tank itself - which is already quite light - but from the minimum quantity of fluid required to keep the dashboard warning light from illuminating, which is the level of fluid I fill to; I don't use the wipers except for the MOT but if I do need to there's a good to three days worth of fluid in even the smaller tank.
With my original tank fitted to the car I blocked off the motor output ports and connected a multimeter in continuity check mode to the level senor, then filled the tank until the circuit was broken. This was to be the comparison at 5.2kg.
Here's a photo to show the F430 tank (top) next to the early 360 tank (bottom). The F430 has a different front sheet metal to suit the revised underbody aerodynamics, so the two lower mounting lugs on the 360 tank require modification. Also, I would need to find a way to fit the F430's headlamp washer pump to the 360 tank.
The filler neck and low fluid sensor are identical so can be swapped over, and to make life easier the upper mounting hole is only 4mm out so I just enlarged the mounting hole. I found that the lower mounting lugs could be trimmed to suit the F430 body. I added new Rivnuts to the shell and blanked off the now unused ones with butyl, so that the original tank can be refitted at any time.
I bored an 18mm hole in the side of the tank at a suitable place, and Dad came up with the ideal of using a P clip or other fitting to secure the headlamp washer motor to the body. It turned out that a 32mm solvent weld domestic plumbing fitting was perfect for the job! I had to extend the motor harness by 200mm.
New tank installed and working. It saved 2.358kg.
Headlights complete and installed
I made another modification to the headlamps at the last moment. When I commissioned the carbon inserts I asked for a slight tint but when they arrived I was never really happy with it. I decided to take the risk of stripping off the epoxy top coat and initially tried sanding, but if anyone knows epoxy...too hard! 99.5% pure Methylene Chloride wasn't strong enough, but Nitromors paint stripper left on for a few hours enabled me to scrape off the epoxy with a knife. I finished with 400 grit wet and dry paper to expose the carbon cloth.
I initially painted with matt lacquer as per OEM but I didn't like it - too lackluster - so I settled on satin lacquer which gave a bit more life to the carbon. The process saved some further weight but that wasn't the primary goal.
Dad bought over his DA and we gave the headlamp covers a good polish inside and out.
Lights installed with my new clear indicators and grey bezels. I'm happy.
Misc
The front bumper is back on and the alignment is much better. I won't say perfect because nothing bodywork related on these cars is perfect, but for me believe it or not that's actually become part of the attraction of the F430. Obviously, the car is due a good clean and polish.
Scuttle panel and wipers back on with stainless fastenings
My trimmer wasn't comfortable working with the airbag so I've stripped it down for him so he can retrim the cover in red with new embossing for the 'AIRBAG' text.
Weight saving
Sprung weight saved: 80.60 kg
Unsprung weight saved: 24.97 kg
Total weight saved: 105.57 kg
I found during some of my research that early 360's had a very small washer tank. These early cars did not have xenon's and thus not a requirement for headlamp washers either meaning the tank capacity could be lower. Ferrari discontinued this smaller tank when the first xenon's started to appear on the 360, and from that point only supplied the larger tank but with the additional motor hole blanked off for non-xenon cars. The smaller tank presented a meaningful weight saving capacity not from the tank itself - which is already quite light - but from the minimum quantity of fluid required to keep the dashboard warning light from illuminating, which is the level of fluid I fill to; I don't use the wipers except for the MOT but if I do need to there's a good to three days worth of fluid in even the smaller tank.
With my original tank fitted to the car I blocked off the motor output ports and connected a multimeter in continuity check mode to the level senor, then filled the tank until the circuit was broken. This was to be the comparison at 5.2kg.
Here's a photo to show the F430 tank (top) next to the early 360 tank (bottom). The F430 has a different front sheet metal to suit the revised underbody aerodynamics, so the two lower mounting lugs on the 360 tank require modification. Also, I would need to find a way to fit the F430's headlamp washer pump to the 360 tank.
The filler neck and low fluid sensor are identical so can be swapped over, and to make life easier the upper mounting hole is only 4mm out so I just enlarged the mounting hole. I found that the lower mounting lugs could be trimmed to suit the F430 body. I added new Rivnuts to the shell and blanked off the now unused ones with butyl, so that the original tank can be refitted at any time.
I bored an 18mm hole in the side of the tank at a suitable place, and Dad came up with the ideal of using a P clip or other fitting to secure the headlamp washer motor to the body. It turned out that a 32mm solvent weld domestic plumbing fitting was perfect for the job! I had to extend the motor harness by 200mm.
New tank installed and working. It saved 2.358kg.
Headlights complete and installed
I made another modification to the headlamps at the last moment. When I commissioned the carbon inserts I asked for a slight tint but when they arrived I was never really happy with it. I decided to take the risk of stripping off the epoxy top coat and initially tried sanding, but if anyone knows epoxy...too hard! 99.5% pure Methylene Chloride wasn't strong enough, but Nitromors paint stripper left on for a few hours enabled me to scrape off the epoxy with a knife. I finished with 400 grit wet and dry paper to expose the carbon cloth.
I initially painted with matt lacquer as per OEM but I didn't like it - too lackluster - so I settled on satin lacquer which gave a bit more life to the carbon. The process saved some further weight but that wasn't the primary goal.
Dad bought over his DA and we gave the headlamp covers a good polish inside and out.
Lights installed with my new clear indicators and grey bezels. I'm happy.
Misc
The front bumper is back on and the alignment is much better. I won't say perfect because nothing bodywork related on these cars is perfect, but for me believe it or not that's actually become part of the attraction of the F430. Obviously, the car is due a good clean and polish.
Scuttle panel and wipers back on with stainless fastenings
My trimmer wasn't comfortable working with the airbag so I've stripped it down for him so he can retrim the cover in red with new embossing for the 'AIRBAG' text.
Weight saving
| Original Part | Fitted Quantity | Original Part (kg) | Replacement Part (kg) | Sprung Saving (kg) | Unsprung Saving (kg) | Replacement Part |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pedals - brake | 1 | 0.987 | 0.627 | 0.36 | - | 16M/Scuderia |
| Pedals - brake and clutch height adjuster bracket | 1 | 0.086 | 0 | 0.086 | - | Removed - unused |
| Brakes - ABS/ESP - acceleration sensor | 1 | 0.091 | 0 | 0.091 | - | Removed - function provided by CAN yaw |
| Pedals - Pedals - accelerator assembly | 1 | 0.883 | 0.869 | 0.014 | - | 16M/Scuderia |
| Door hinges | 4 | 0.705 | 0.5005 | 0.818 | - | Machined to reduce weight |
| Dashboard plaque 'F430 Spider' - carbon version | 1 | 0.025 | 0.086 | -0.061 | - | '16M Scuderia Spider - Limited 499' |
| Interior - centre console, complete (carbon driving zone) | 1 | 2.253 | 1.341 | 0.912 | - | 16M (carbon) |
| Windscreen washer tank, pumps, and minimum fluid | 1 | 5.257 | 2.899 | 2.358 | - | 360 non-headlamp wash version adapted |
| Headlamps - standard | 2 | 0.3505 | 0.137 | 0.427 | - | 16M (carbon) |
Sprung weight saved: 80.60 kg
Unsprung weight saved: 24.97 kg
Total weight saved: 105.57 kg
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 17th January 08:21
Thanks all. The official weight saving figure for the 16M is 80kg.
Time-wise I get on average two weekends a month of half days, or one full weekend depending depending on how you look at it. Not enough! Anything that's small or removable I can take home (a building site so it doesn't matter - yet!) and spend the odd free hour in an evening as and when.
Time-wise I get on average two weekends a month of half days, or one full weekend depending depending on how you look at it. Not enough! Anything that's small or removable I can take home (a building site so it doesn't matter - yet!) and spend the odd free hour in an evening as and when.
mwstewart said:
Thanks all. The official weight saving figure for the 16M is 80kg.
Does this fact just reinforce the theory that the specialist "low run" Ferrari models - 360 CS, 16M, Specialie are indeed, just a Ferrari marketing exercise to shift a few more cars. Indeed, if they were serious about creating lightweight specials - you'd see much more than an 80kg reduction?Amazing thread OP. Very jealous of your skills
Candellara said:
Does this fact just reinforce the theory that the specialist "low run" Ferrari models - 360 CS, 16M, Spec ialie are indeed, just a Ferrari marketing exercise to shift a few more cars. Indeed, if they were serious about creating lightweight specials - you'd see much more than an 80kg reduction?
Amazing thread OP. Very jealous of your skills
I think the specials are still quite road biased despite the marketing bias suggesting otherwise, so there's immediately 30kg of A/C, 5-7kg of xenon headlamps, etc. etc. My view is that they are also customer funded development platforms for technologies that eventually end up on the regular models, e.g.Amazing thread OP. Very jealous of your skills
360CS - titanium springs, composite underbody panels, hollow anti roll bars.
Scuderia - High compression engine and Eldor ion knock sensing. IMO that wasn't about power but a testbed for the knock system that was lifted and shifted over to the 458. Also, Superfast 2 which was used for many years later by Maserati.
There are more examples.
The specials are not particularly light weight, as you say. The Speciale is above 1500kg! Despite that Ferrari do go to an awful lot of trouble - just not in a complete no compromise sort of way.
d.
JonChalk said:
mwstewart said:
I don't use the wipers except for the MOT ..........
You're going to need to emigrate with the car, once it's done, then.........;) .That's dedication to the cause.
The smaller tank holds a couple of days worth of fluid so is still perfectly usable If I need it.
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