Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
This has to be the best 430 ever, surely?
If I was in the market for one of these (most definitely am not unfortunately) I think I would actually pay MORE for yours. All this talk of no Ferrari main dealer history is baffling to me given the detail on here.
I clearly need to retain as a friggin solutions architect ffs!
If I was in the market for one of these (most definitely am not unfortunately) I think I would actually pay MORE for yours. All this talk of no Ferrari main dealer history is baffling to me given the detail on here.
I clearly need to retain as a friggin solutions architect ffs!
from wikipedia: - A solutions architect in Information Technology is a practitioner of solution architecture. Typically, part of the solution development team, the solutions architect is responsible for translating the requirements created by functional analysts into the architecture for that solution and describing it through the set of architecture and design artifacts. Those artifacts are then used by the rest of the development team to implement the solution. The process of defining architecture by the solutions architect often involves selection of the most appropriate technology for the problem being solved.[1][2]
Had to read that a couple of times to get an idea of what one was, that and me thinking it was to do with building tricky houses means I'm probably a long way off being one...
Love the thread.
Had to read that a couple of times to get an idea of what one was, that and me thinking it was to do with building tricky houses means I'm probably a long way off being one...
Love the thread.
mwstewart said:
A day away from work today and the afternoon was spent with my Dad on a road trip to collect the new rear bumper & grille. I’ve been on many parts trips to date and found it’s not unusual to go find something else I wasn’t looking for at the time, and today was no exception; I came away agreeing to buy a part I didn't expect to source for the project:
A 16M carbon fibre inlet plenum.
The stock plenum is case aluminium powder coated in crackle finish red, and both My Dad and I both think it will be a shame to loose the red accent under the engine bay window, so I'm going to have a custom paint job on the new plenum that will add a hint of Rosso red on top of each plenum chamber.
Hi,A 16M carbon fibre inlet plenum.
The stock plenum is case aluminium powder coated in crackle finish red, and both My Dad and I both think it will be a shame to loose the red accent under the engine bay window, so I'm going to have a custom paint job on the new plenum that will add a hint of Rosso red on top of each plenum chamber.
Love the carbon plenum chambers!
I have carbon air box and covers in mine, interested in the plenum chambers in carbon! Where did you source them from?!
Have you upgraded the oil filler cap for the titanium one? I have on mine, its billet and the detail on it really is a nice touch.
Have looked at scud rear end also but decided against it, have sourced a carbon scud grill. Just looking for the lower bumper for a standard 430 to go with the carbon grill now so if you know were I might find one (or come across one please would you let me know?)
I was lucky when I got mine 18 months back that the previous owner had added an awful lot of bits to it already!
It really does add to the occasion!
confucuis said:
Love this car!
Thanks.chillo said:
Hi,
Love the carbon plenum chambers!
I have carbon air box and covers in mine, interested in the plenum chambers in carbon! Where did you source them from?!
Have you upgraded the oil filler cap for the titanium one? I have on mine, its billet and the detail on it really is a nice touch.
Have looked at scud rear end also but decided against it, have sourced a carbon scud grill. Just looking for the lower bumper for a standard 430 to go with the carbon grill now so if you know were I might find one (or come across one please would you let me know?)
I was lucky when I got mine 18 months back that the previous owner had added an awful lot of bits to it already!
It really does add to the occasion!
Hi there, Nice, isn't it? I found someone breaking a Scud who was willing to sell it seperate to the motor. I have the Ti caps on my list - they are very nice - but there's quite a lot I want to get sorted before the finishing touches.Love the carbon plenum chambers!
I have carbon air box and covers in mine, interested in the plenum chambers in carbon! Where did you source them from?!
Have you upgraded the oil filler cap for the titanium one? I have on mine, its billet and the detail on it really is a nice touch.
Have looked at scud rear end also but decided against it, have sourced a carbon scud grill. Just looking for the lower bumper for a standard 430 to go with the carbon grill now so if you know were I might find one (or come across one please would you let me know?)
I was lucky when I got mine 18 months back that the previous owner had added an awful lot of bits to it already!
It really does add to the occasion!
The standard bumper can be cut to suit the Challenge grille - all the mounting bosses are already there for it.
Cheers.
mwstewart said:
I gave more thought to the weight loss project and soon realised that however much I like the stock rear bumper it would be silly to keep it and the heavy F430 exhaust & undertray arrangement, so I shall replace the lot.
For those not familiar with the exhaust system differences I've uploaded a couple of photos. First the stock F430 tailpipes: the green arrow shows the silencer mating flange, and the blue arrow points to the rear of the car.
The 16/Scuderia in comparison makes do without the long pipes and has a much more direct path between the car and tailpipes, which now exit through the centre of the rear bumper. The simpler route sheds weight as the F430 tailpipes are quite heavy, but it also improves aerodynamics due to Base Bleed.
Given that I was now changing the skirts and both bumpers, I decided it would make sense to go full 16M spec but with a few expections:
1) Manual gearbox (obviously) to remain with regular F430 ratios;
2) Sound deadening to remain;
3) Leather door panels to remain (for now).
There is such a gulf in value between mine and a 16M that the man mathsfor this undertaking make perfect sense, and although the end result won't have the Superfast 2 transmission with its lower Scuderia/16M ratios, or the cams and compression ratio increase, I do have a few planned changes to the engine culminating in a remap which I hope will result in performance close to a stock 16M.
I have sourced an OEM carbon fibre 'challenge' grille for a Spider model (they are different to the Berlinetta).
More importantly a very nice 16M/Scuderia rear bumper.
F
I will instruct my painter to remove all of the black paint including overspray on the rear, so that the only base coat on the bumper is Grigio Silverstone - including the overspray on the back - as it would come from the factory. Anal, I know, but it has to be 'right'!
I don't think that spider challenge grill will fit the coupe as the boot lids are different. the part near the lights is longer on the coupe versionFor those not familiar with the exhaust system differences I've uploaded a couple of photos. First the stock F430 tailpipes: the green arrow shows the silencer mating flange, and the blue arrow points to the rear of the car.
The 16/Scuderia in comparison makes do without the long pipes and has a much more direct path between the car and tailpipes, which now exit through the centre of the rear bumper. The simpler route sheds weight as the F430 tailpipes are quite heavy, but it also improves aerodynamics due to Base Bleed.
Given that I was now changing the skirts and both bumpers, I decided it would make sense to go full 16M spec but with a few expections:
1) Manual gearbox (obviously) to remain with regular F430 ratios;
2) Sound deadening to remain;
3) Leather door panels to remain (for now).
There is such a gulf in value between mine and a 16M that the man mathsfor this undertaking make perfect sense, and although the end result won't have the Superfast 2 transmission with its lower Scuderia/16M ratios, or the cams and compression ratio increase, I do have a few planned changes to the engine culminating in a remap which I hope will result in performance close to a stock 16M.
I have sourced an OEM carbon fibre 'challenge' grille for a Spider model (they are different to the Berlinetta).
More importantly a very nice 16M/Scuderia rear bumper.
F
I will instruct my painter to remove all of the black paint including overspray on the rear, so that the only base coat on the bumper is Grigio Silverstone - including the overspray on the back - as it would come from the factory. Anal, I know, but it has to be 'right'!
thebraketester said:
About the brakes. I drove a challenge that had steel brakes. (2 piece performance friction) much bigger than the stock 430 items and they were stunning. Maybe worth looking into over CC brakes.
Cheers. Something to think about. Girodisc sell 398mm metal replacements for 16M/Scuderia/Challenge CCMs, and for track work they work out considerably cheaper - the CCMs are usually worn out in one race weekend, or a few track days.My use is fast road so CCMs will probably last long enough, and unsprung weight is a consideration too. I'll have to find out what kind of penalty is asscoiated with a metal conversion. I've had metal AP discs in the past which are incredibly light for their size so there may not be too much in it.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142101454-post2.h...
fchat said:
Andrea Taurino at Taurino Racing here in U.S. (down here in Florida) is offering affordable replacements CCM rotors for the F430, 360CS, Scuderia, 16M, 458, and the F430C/458C. These are units built better than the ones supplied by Brembo, and their price more affordable. A little over 2x the price of steel rotors.
However, no matter how affordable these CCM rotors are, they will never offer the cost/benefit of steel rotors.
On the Ferrari Challenge, the front rotors are replaced every 2 race weekends, and rear rotors every 3 race weekends, so the front rotors life is in between 12 hours and 15 hours.
On the street cars (360CS, F430, Scuderia, 16M, 458), these rotors will last for a long time, think more than 100,000 miles easily. But once the street cars are driven on racetracks, or driven on public roads at European speeds (not the U.S. 55mph speed limit), the wear comes into place.
The CCM rotors in Ferrari/Lamborghini/Audi/Mercedes/Aston/Chevy are all the same in construction. Only Porsche uses a different construction that lasts twice as long as our CCM rotors (for track use), Porsche advertised their PCCB are good for 186,000 miles (300.000 kms).
Based on my continuous measurement of CCM rotor weight, physical inspection, and their printed new weight and minimum weight, I have been able to estimate their life with track use. In my specific use, the stock Scuderia front rotors are good for 24-30 track hours, while the rear rotors are good for 48-60 track hours. This is valid for my use where I do cool down laps, I don't abuse the brakes once they start fading from overheating (yes, I have reached those limits with the Scuderia), I use track specific brake pads that are benign on the rotors, and I use the best quality brake fluids.
For people bringing their cars to racetracks, and typically not aware of the care these CCM rotors need, they will get less than 24 track hours on the front rotors.
The reason my rear rotors last twice as long is that I run with CST-OFF, so I don't get the extra wear caused by the Sport/Race/CT-OFF systems.
On a 458 Italia, I would expect a brake wear increase of 20%, given the near 400 lbs of weight carried by the U.S. version 458, the extra power, and the closer ratios transmission, bringing the car to higher speeds, having to slow down more mass, and at a lower speeds (the Scuderia carries more minimum speed on a corner).
I switched to Steel rotors last year, thanks to the amazing work Girodisc is doing.
Martin Meade (Girodisc's owner) is a great car enthusiast, and the engineering quality on his products is impressive. I inquired Martin about brakes for the Scuderia back in 2009, he was on the early stages of development, today he offers steel brake replacements for the 360 Challenge Stradale, F430, 430 Scuderia, 16M, 458 Italia, 430 Challenge, and pretty soon 458 Challenge.
The prices of Girodisc steel rotors have come down since last year, and when new rotors are needed, you don't need to pay for new centers, you can swap the rotor rims yourself, or send your old ones to Girodisc and have them serviced, even cheaper than the complete rotor assembly.
One advantage of the Girodisc steel rotors, the front Scuderia rotors move up from 398mm to 405mm, and they are thicker than the stock CCM rotors, so less heat on the front rotors which is a problem with the 360CS, Scuderia, Italia and 16M.
I weighed the steel rotors, and the kit added near 50 lbs of total unsprung weight, but my lap times have gone faster, as the braking is more consistent compared to CCM rotors with more than 70% wear on them.
I'm too lazy to spend 4-6 hours to switch between CCB rotors and steel rotors. I like the steel rotors a lot for track use, plus I'm not afraid to work hard on my brakes when running steel rotors. When I track my car with CCM rotors, I'm always trying to manage and take care of them, but when I track my car with steel rotors I don't even think about brake wear, I just focus on all other important things.
There is a nice variety of track brake pads for these Girodisc steel rotors, for CCM rotors the brake pad options are scarce and more expensive.
There are other factors that increase/decrease brake rotors life, the racetrack layout, the air temperature, the length of the track sessions, the type of tires used, and the one with the most influence: the driver's skill. A slow driver gets longer life on his brake rotors (CCM or steel) than a fast driver."
50lb / ~22.6Kg of additional unsprung weight is not something I would be happy with on my road car. However, no matter how affordable these CCM rotors are, they will never offer the cost/benefit of steel rotors.
On the Ferrari Challenge, the front rotors are replaced every 2 race weekends, and rear rotors every 3 race weekends, so the front rotors life is in between 12 hours and 15 hours.
On the street cars (360CS, F430, Scuderia, 16M, 458), these rotors will last for a long time, think more than 100,000 miles easily. But once the street cars are driven on racetracks, or driven on public roads at European speeds (not the U.S. 55mph speed limit), the wear comes into place.
The CCM rotors in Ferrari/Lamborghini/Audi/Mercedes/Aston/Chevy are all the same in construction. Only Porsche uses a different construction that lasts twice as long as our CCM rotors (for track use), Porsche advertised their PCCB are good for 186,000 miles (300.000 kms).
Based on my continuous measurement of CCM rotor weight, physical inspection, and their printed new weight and minimum weight, I have been able to estimate their life with track use. In my specific use, the stock Scuderia front rotors are good for 24-30 track hours, while the rear rotors are good for 48-60 track hours. This is valid for my use where I do cool down laps, I don't abuse the brakes once they start fading from overheating (yes, I have reached those limits with the Scuderia), I use track specific brake pads that are benign on the rotors, and I use the best quality brake fluids.
For people bringing their cars to racetracks, and typically not aware of the care these CCM rotors need, they will get less than 24 track hours on the front rotors.
The reason my rear rotors last twice as long is that I run with CST-OFF, so I don't get the extra wear caused by the Sport/Race/CT-OFF systems.
On a 458 Italia, I would expect a brake wear increase of 20%, given the near 400 lbs of weight carried by the U.S. version 458, the extra power, and the closer ratios transmission, bringing the car to higher speeds, having to slow down more mass, and at a lower speeds (the Scuderia carries more minimum speed on a corner).
I switched to Steel rotors last year, thanks to the amazing work Girodisc is doing.
Martin Meade (Girodisc's owner) is a great car enthusiast, and the engineering quality on his products is impressive. I inquired Martin about brakes for the Scuderia back in 2009, he was on the early stages of development, today he offers steel brake replacements for the 360 Challenge Stradale, F430, 430 Scuderia, 16M, 458 Italia, 430 Challenge, and pretty soon 458 Challenge.
The prices of Girodisc steel rotors have come down since last year, and when new rotors are needed, you don't need to pay for new centers, you can swap the rotor rims yourself, or send your old ones to Girodisc and have them serviced, even cheaper than the complete rotor assembly.
One advantage of the Girodisc steel rotors, the front Scuderia rotors move up from 398mm to 405mm, and they are thicker than the stock CCM rotors, so less heat on the front rotors which is a problem with the 360CS, Scuderia, Italia and 16M.
I weighed the steel rotors, and the kit added near 50 lbs of total unsprung weight, but my lap times have gone faster, as the braking is more consistent compared to CCM rotors with more than 70% wear on them.
I'm too lazy to spend 4-6 hours to switch between CCB rotors and steel rotors. I like the steel rotors a lot for track use, plus I'm not afraid to work hard on my brakes when running steel rotors. When I track my car with CCM rotors, I'm always trying to manage and take care of them, but when I track my car with steel rotors I don't even think about brake wear, I just focus on all other important things.
There is a nice variety of track brake pads for these Girodisc steel rotors, for CCM rotors the brake pad options are scarce and more expensive.
There are other factors that increase/decrease brake rotors life, the racetrack layout, the air temperature, the length of the track sessions, the type of tires used, and the one with the most influence: the driver's skill. A slow driver gets longer life on his brake rotors (CCM or steel) than a fast driver."
thebraketester said:
Sounds like a hell of a lot... are you sure those numbers are correct. As a comparison. 362mm AP racing 2 piece disc and bell weighs 8.5kg.
At a guess the OEM disc (330mm??) would weight roughly 10-12kg
I agree it does for just discs, especially given the GiroDiscs have alloy bells too! The poster seems pretty clued-up though...At a guess the OEM disc (330mm??) would weight roughly 10-12kg
Edited by thebraketester on Tuesday 13th October 11:33
Thank you.
Carbon Fuel Cap
I'd mentioned in a previous post that I wasn't keen on exposed carbon fibre on a Silverstone car, however seeing the car in sunlight this summer made me realise the paint is just about light enough to make it work. I have my eye on carbon side skirts and fuel cap, but before paying the extortionate Ferrari prices, I bought a copy fuel cap to test.
It's made really well.
1x1 weave.
I was pleased with the test fit so I'll go ahead and order an OEM flap.
BMC Air Filters
These are often advertised as part of a tuning package for the F430 (cats, filters, Scuderia air box lids, and tune), so I thought I'd fit a pair.
...and this is where the fun started. When removing the airbox lids to remove the OEM filters, I noticed a witness mark on the left-hand airbox lid. Not good. The BMC filters are slightly taller than OEM which compounded the problem and meant the engine lid couldn't close.
I decided to see if I could lower the entire airbox assembly in the engine bay; it is supported on vibration damping mounts. The airbox mounting flange is represented by the green line:
I tried the box with a set of radiator mounts from a Mk3 Fiesta; with this type of mount the airbox mounting flange sits lower down, again illustrated by the green line:
The above didn't work due to a lack of clearance between the airbox and chassis, but it was then I then noticed something; the airbox air filter mounting was not straight. It's difficult to see in the photo, but the left hand side isn't true and rises up to a point 5mm above the rest of the flange. Great!
On Monday I'm taking the airbox enclosure to my fabricator to have this manufacturing issue corrected, and at the same time I'll have the air filter mounting flange lowered by 6mm to provide more clearance for the BMC filter/Scuderia airbox combo.
When the airbox comes back I will send it away to be ceramic coated in satin black (same colour as the 16M/Scuderia).
Carbon Fuel Cap
I'd mentioned in a previous post that I wasn't keen on exposed carbon fibre on a Silverstone car, however seeing the car in sunlight this summer made me realise the paint is just about light enough to make it work. I have my eye on carbon side skirts and fuel cap, but before paying the extortionate Ferrari prices, I bought a copy fuel cap to test.
It's made really well.
1x1 weave.
I was pleased with the test fit so I'll go ahead and order an OEM flap.
BMC Air Filters
These are often advertised as part of a tuning package for the F430 (cats, filters, Scuderia air box lids, and tune), so I thought I'd fit a pair.
...and this is where the fun started. When removing the airbox lids to remove the OEM filters, I noticed a witness mark on the left-hand airbox lid. Not good. The BMC filters are slightly taller than OEM which compounded the problem and meant the engine lid couldn't close.
I decided to see if I could lower the entire airbox assembly in the engine bay; it is supported on vibration damping mounts. The airbox mounting flange is represented by the green line:
I tried the box with a set of radiator mounts from a Mk3 Fiesta; with this type of mount the airbox mounting flange sits lower down, again illustrated by the green line:
The above didn't work due to a lack of clearance between the airbox and chassis, but it was then I then noticed something; the airbox air filter mounting was not straight. It's difficult to see in the photo, but the left hand side isn't true and rises up to a point 5mm above the rest of the flange. Great!
On Monday I'm taking the airbox enclosure to my fabricator to have this manufacturing issue corrected, and at the same time I'll have the air filter mounting flange lowered by 6mm to provide more clearance for the BMC filter/Scuderia airbox combo.
When the airbox comes back I will send it away to be ceramic coated in satin black (same colour as the 16M/Scuderia).
I'm still collecting parts.
16M/Scuderia MAF sensors
First, some more parts to improve the inlet system: 16M/Scuderia MAF sensor and throttle body connecting bellows. These are approx. 6mm larger in diameter than the stock F430 parts and go hand-in-hand with the high volume air boxes to help reduce any restriction in the inlet system, relative to the flow improvements from the improved exhaust manifolds.
I have planned some work on the actual inlet manifold itself and then I'll take the car to DMS for a remap.
16M/Scuderia Side Skirt
I was impressed with the replica carbon fuel flap but the 16M skirts are still a way off, so in the mean time I'll go with some standard skirts; I've found the O/S genuine Ferrari 16/Scuderia skirt, so just the N/S to go.
16M/Scuderia MAF sensors
First, some more parts to improve the inlet system: 16M/Scuderia MAF sensor and throttle body connecting bellows. These are approx. 6mm larger in diameter than the stock F430 parts and go hand-in-hand with the high volume air boxes to help reduce any restriction in the inlet system, relative to the flow improvements from the improved exhaust manifolds.
I have planned some work on the actual inlet manifold itself and then I'll take the car to DMS for a remap.
16M/Scuderia Side Skirt
I was impressed with the replica carbon fuel flap but the 16M skirts are still a way off, so in the mean time I'll go with some standard skirts; I've found the O/S genuine Ferrari 16/Scuderia skirt, so just the N/S to go.
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 11:41
mwstewart said:
thebraketester said:
About the brakes. I drove a challenge that had steel brakes. (2 piece performance friction) much bigger than the stock 430 items and they were stunning. Maybe worth looking into over CC brakes.
Cheers. Something to think about. Girodisc sell 398mm metal replacements for 16M/Scuderia/Challenge CCMs, and for track work they work out considerably cheaper - the CCMs are usually worn out in one race weekend, or a few track days.My use is fast road so CCMs will probably last long enough, and unsprung weight is a consideration too. I'll have to find out what kind of penalty is asscoiated with a metal conversion. I've had metal AP discs in the past which are incredibly light for their size so there may not be too much in it.
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