Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
mwstewart said:
Muzzer79 said:
Brilliant work, and a fascinating read.
However, I feel compelled to ask a potentially silly question......:
Why not just buy a 16M?
I'm not fully au fait with Ferrari asking prices, but after you've bought all these parts, etc are they much more?
Quite a bit more: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f... - more again if red.However, I feel compelled to ask a potentially silly question......:
Why not just buy a 16M?
I'm not fully au fait with Ferrari asking prices, but after you've bought all these parts, etc are they much more?
I'm not at a stage in my life/career where I have that kind of money to spend on a car, but the enjoyment I get from the project is priceless to me, so if I was I'm not sure I'd do it any differently!
A 16M is a £300k motorcar, today. It will retain the pricing premium based on what it is, exclusivity and what people see as the value of the model.
Your car will be just that, Your car. It will, to you, be better than a 16M and the pleasure it brings will offset the financial implications of doing it your way rather than buying the 16M.
To some onlookers, it will look like madness but fair play to you. I wish I was in a position to throw money at a project like this and not worry about the overall financials. Maybe one day I'll be able to create my own perfect Elise!
One day you'll have to tell us how you keep your other half sweet whilst doing all this!
Must admit my heart sunk a little when I saw the listing for your first car on Copart and again yesterday on eBay after all the work you had put in, but I love how you just got another car and carried straight on again.
All your threads are excellent but this one is in another league because you just don't see people modifying and improving on supercars in this unique way - really looking forward to seeing how this one turns out
All your threads are excellent but this one is in another league because you just don't see people modifying and improving on supercars in this unique way - really looking forward to seeing how this one turns out
ferrisbueller said:
I think that's the subtle piece that people maybe don't always pick up on.
A 16M is a £300k motorcar, today. It will retain the pricing premium based on what it is, exclusivity and what people see as the value of the model.
Your car will be just that, Your car. It will, to you, be better than a 16M and the pleasure it brings will offset the financial implications of doing it your way rather than buying the 16M.
To some onlookers, it will look like madness but fair play to you. I wish I was in a position to throw money at a project like this and not worry about the overall financials. Maybe one day I'll be able to create my own perfect Elise!
One day you'll have to tell us how you keep your other half sweet whilst doing all this!
Thank you. I'm balancing car work with restoring a Victorian house - replacing joists, fitting new bathroom, kitchen etc. etc. A 16M is a £300k motorcar, today. It will retain the pricing premium based on what it is, exclusivity and what people see as the value of the model.
Your car will be just that, Your car. It will, to you, be better than a 16M and the pleasure it brings will offset the financial implications of doing it your way rather than buying the 16M.
To some onlookers, it will look like madness but fair play to you. I wish I was in a position to throw money at a project like this and not worry about the overall financials. Maybe one day I'll be able to create my own perfect Elise!
One day you'll have to tell us how you keep your other half sweet whilst doing all this!
We're doing that together so that's our joint project time. If she's out socialising and I'm not I'll tend to spend that time on the cars. It's a very busy time but it all seems to work pretty well.
Remagel2507 said:
Must admit my heart sunk a little when I saw the listing for your first car on Copart and again yesterday on eBay after all the work you had put in, but I love how you just got another car and carried straight on again.
All your threads are excellent but this one is in another league because you just don't see people modifying and improving on supercars in this unique way - really looking forward to seeing how this one turns out
Thank you. I thought the Copart hammer price made sense for someone who wanted wanted to repair it themselves and run a Cat D at reduced cost. I love the new car, though, and what it's going to become so I wouldn't change now if I had the choice.All your threads are excellent but this one is in another league because you just don't see people modifying and improving on supercars in this unique way - really looking forward to seeing how this one turns out
I will have some more updates this weekend.
absolutely love this thread 
mwstewart said:
Thanks all!
Column mounted paddles are frustrating for a couple of reasons. I much prefer them wheel mounted.
I have a plan to address that but it will come later down the line when I swap the steering wheel.
Interesting, my Maserati had column mounted paddle shifters and I thought they where great because you always knew where they where and they where big enough that I seldom had to move my hand to change gear. Column mounted paddles are frustrating for a couple of reasons. I much prefer them wheel mounted.
I have a plan to address that but it will come later down the line when I swap the steering wheel.
I have driven several cars with wheel mounted paddles(including the F430), they where great on the open road but a pain when manoeuvring in town because you did not always have your hands in the same place on the wheel.
I am curious as to what your issues are with them?
Great thread by the way, the F430 spider is one of my favourite cars, I hope to have one in the future and look forward to seeing how your car turns out.
Thanks all. Dust is a big part of my life at the moment 
I don't think I'd get time to maintain a house thread, but at some point I may upload a bulk job of photos. I must admit I didn't realise there was a house forum on PH!
With regards the paddles - for fast driving I find the wheel mounted paddles a better suited, and actually I just prefer using them.
I don't think I'd get time to maintain a house thread, but at some point I may upload a bulk job of photos. I must admit I didn't realise there was a house forum on PH!
With regards the paddles - for fast driving I find the wheel mounted paddles a better suited, and actually I just prefer using them.
Update time. For the sake of efficiency I will stop writing '16M/Scuderia' and instead use 'Scuderia' unless the part is specific to either type.
Scuderia electronics research – Part 2
Drive mode selection
Further studying of the wiring diagrams has revealed that the Scuderia's racing Manettino 'CT off' position is Race mode but with a single change at the ABS/ESP module.
ABS module and E-Diff module
In my last update I mentioned that the junction connector between the ABS loom and the car loom was identical between Scuderia and F430. It is identical, but there are some key differences:
The Scuderia models have a wire from the Manettino to the ABS module for deactivation of traction control (CT). I take from this that selecting 'CT off' at the Manettino simply broadcasts the Race mode CAN ID along with earthing the CT off pin at the ABS module, via this additional wire.
Another crucial difference between the F430 and Scuderia ABS/ESP systems is the yaw sensor. The F430 has four wires linking the sensor to the ABS module and because of this I make the assumption that it is a two channel analogue sensor: a combined yaw and lateral acceleration sensor. The Scuderia does not have these dedicated wires and instead must use the CAN bus to communicate with the sensor. I tracked down the ESP sensor and confirmed a part number change for F430 and Scuderia. The F430 uses a black top Bosch sensor 0265005241. It is no longer used by Ferrari on new cars but is used in a wide range of cars by different manufacturers.
The Scuderia uses a white top Bosch sensor 0265005616. This sensor is still in use by Ferrari and again is used on a number of other cars.
The two sensors are physically identical and use the same wiring plug but I would like to think the key is different thus preventing accidental replacement with the wrong type.
On learning these differences I went ahead and purchased the RHD Scuderia ABS loom, but I may have jumped the gun a little here because knowing what changes were made to 2008 cars I should have double checked if my car already uses the later ABS module and yaw sensor. I will do that today then decide how to proceed, but either way I’d be very surprised if my body loom had provision for a CT off wire. We shall see.
I have also confirmed there are not wiring differences for the E-Diff in F430 and Scuderia.
Scuderia steering system
I knew the Scuderia had a different rack but specifics for these cars is thin on the ground. I finally tracked down an Italian press which covered the mm/giro (turn) measurement of the rack so using that together with the information I already had for the F430 rack I calculated the missing details for the 16M/Scuderia rack. I also identified that the 599 uses the same rack type, so using another piece of info I found for that I could fill in the blanks.
I know from experience that somewhere around 13:1 is the perfect ratio for road and occasional track day use; I've gone down from 15.4:1 to 12.8:1 in my E46 M3 and that's very direct but as far as I'd like to go for fast driving on non-track surfaces. The 458 is somewhere around 11:1 which for me is too much for road use (good for sales by creating an immediate feeling of change from the previous model), however the 599 is in my view pretty much perfect. I'm quite sure that the 599 rack would bolt on to the F430 as long as the longer track rod ends were swapped for the shorter F430 versions but then there's a consideration with ESP programming: a quicker rack without the reprogramming to suit means the system is effectively 'loosened off' because the quicker rack has less steering angle per equivalent wheel angle.
The changes in the Scuderia system also extend to the PAS pump and cooler. The F430 cooler is a simple exposed tube type whereas the Scuderia uses a four row bar and plate cooler. I've ordered the mounting brackets to suit and also require the connecting pipes.
16M engine lid
In a previous post I covered the difference between the F430 Spider and 16M engine lids whereby the 16M has scallops on the structural members in order to clear the larger carbon air box lids. That is something I will do to my lid in due course, but I subsequently noticed that the 16M lid also had modified grille supports to further aid with clearance. The following photos show the F430 vs the cut down 16M parts.
Here are the original mounting brackets removed. I took the opportunity to weigh them.
Here are the cut down trims weighed. Although Ferrari didn't do this with weight saving in mind I wanted to know the combined weight savings of the grille/lid changes.
Cut down trims fitted showing exposed primer previously underneath the full length brackets. This is the area that I will reshape to 16M spec. It will of course be repainted afterwards in satin black.
Weight comparison between F430 and 16M grille mounting screws.
16M grilles fitted.
The Spider models have a specific guard/trim piece at the rear of the engine lid. Ferrari never offered this in carbon but I have decided to commission a one off carbon replacement.
The original part is 200g and I expect to save 150g. This is more of a cosmetic change.
The above engine lid changes combined have saved 1.412kg.
Challenge/16/Scuderia carbon plenum
New clamps and gaskets ready to refit the carbon plenum. I also have plans for the manifold runners that I'll cover in a later post.
The carbon fibre plenum I'd purchased had a crack in the top edge and a couple of abrasion marks between the plenum chambers. I knew this when I bought it but I've only just got around to commissioning a repair; it's now with a repair shop who are also organising a repaint/lacquer in the Speciale style. The following pics show the repair work complete redy for the bodyshop to take over.
Scuderia front bumper
I had sourced a nice used front bumper which was paid for and supposedly en-route from Poland. Two weeks went by and nothing arrived and no contact from the seller, so at that point I expect trouble. I got in touch and was told by the owner that one of his staff had stolen the bumper - which I found a little strange, but not impossible - so he would refund me. He also gave me the option to wait two weeks as he was due another bumper. I decided to take a refund. I lost out on the exchange rate conversion but these things happen.
Two weeks later I received a photo of the next bumper in stock, but I could tell by the shade of grey that it wasn't factory primer. I asked for a photo of the rear side because I can spot a non-genuine bumper a mile off by looking at the rear. The photo wasn't forthcoming. It was around this time that I noticed the seller had advertised the bumper I had bought on Polish eBay for a higher figure, so my advice is to stay well clear of a Polish supercar parts company trading under a name beginning with O.
In the end I bought a brand new OEM bumper from http://www.enfa-international.com/en/ and I can't really recommend them highly enough. Really, really good to deal with. As a bonus I paid only a fraction more than most used number are advertised for.
I've chosen my PPG Rosso Corsa colour shade for spraying the bumpers: 322(O). There are three PPG shades for 322: 322, 322(L), and 322(O).
I've bought a carbon diffuser for the front bumper. It's made by http://www.radstal.com.pl/ - it's a perfect fit and the weave is good. I recommend them.
I did finally receive a photo of the rear side of the other bumper I mentioned. It was a copy!
Misc parts
16M emblems for front wings. I now have the complete set; out of interest I weighed them because they felt heavy.
Antifreeze decal for the header tank. It arrived with a crease in it so I've asked Claudio at Eurospares if he can help - I'm sure it'll be fine. Today I'm going to remove my tank to fabricate and weld on some aluminium ears to mount the carbon fibre cosmetic cover, and after that's complete it'll obviously need to be refinished.
The F430 header tank and air boxes are sprayed in metallic grey whereas the Scuderia lower air box and header tank are finished in a textured black powder coat. I'm going to match the 16M/Scuderia colour but I'll go one step further by sending the tank and air box base to Camcoat for triple ceramic coating. I've always thought this necessary because of the proximity of the air box to the exhaust silencer - the following thermal image taken from a post on Ferrarichat shows that the air box base acts as a big heat sink, which can't be good for optimum performance.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/tech...
Bobbins/isolators to mount the header tank. Mine had some surface rust.
Carbon sill script emblem attached. These are located with three pins and secured with 3M VHB RP45.
Disc securing screws. Mine had surface rust.
CTEK MXS 5 battery charger. This is a more advanced version of the model that was supplied with the car. Thanks to https://www.kumari.net/index.php/cars/ferrari-batt... I've located the necessary connector and pins from RS to build an adapter cable to plug it into the factory fitted charging socket.
DRLs from Scud Ing Swiss. These are the new 2400 Lumen ILUAL43-HDRLV3 'Ultimate Version'.
Exhaust mounts (used) from an E46 M3 and 3m of 10mm stainless bar. I'm going to use these to mock up a new mounting system to replace the heavy and useless standard design.
Exhaust heat shield for rear bumper. This is the outstanding side that was on back order at the factory.
Hill Engineering dead pedal. I fitted one to my last car and it really made a nice finishing touch to the interior.
Number plate plinth for the 16M/Scuderia rear bumper. This is required because the mesh grille sits in-between the plate and the bumper, so the plinth provides a secure fixing base.
Strikers for the A posts. My original strikers had suffered the usual fate of degraded/worn plastic on the striker post. I saw that Ferrari had updated the part and assumed they had increased the thickness of the plastic, or switched to Derlin to make it stronger. They haven't - they just removed it altogether.
Suspension nuts for the arms and shock lower bolts. I had bought a set of nuts for use on the car but I hadn't spotted that Ferrari use grade 10 for everything, so I've bought OEM to use instead.
F430 improvements by year
Taz/Terry Phillips from Ferrari chat once posted a list of changes made to various assembly numbers of F430. I've built on that data with information I've learned and correlated various assembly numbers with VINs in order to create a timeline based spreadsheet showing the list of changes vs approximate year of production. It can be downloaded at the following link:
http://www.mwstewart.co.uk/misc/f430/F430 assembly...
Scuderia electronics research – Part 2
Drive mode selection
Further studying of the wiring diagrams has revealed that the Scuderia's racing Manettino 'CT off' position is Race mode but with a single change at the ABS/ESP module.
ABS module and E-Diff module
In my last update I mentioned that the junction connector between the ABS loom and the car loom was identical between Scuderia and F430. It is identical, but there are some key differences:
The Scuderia models have a wire from the Manettino to the ABS module for deactivation of traction control (CT). I take from this that selecting 'CT off' at the Manettino simply broadcasts the Race mode CAN ID along with earthing the CT off pin at the ABS module, via this additional wire.
Another crucial difference between the F430 and Scuderia ABS/ESP systems is the yaw sensor. The F430 has four wires linking the sensor to the ABS module and because of this I make the assumption that it is a two channel analogue sensor: a combined yaw and lateral acceleration sensor. The Scuderia does not have these dedicated wires and instead must use the CAN bus to communicate with the sensor. I tracked down the ESP sensor and confirmed a part number change for F430 and Scuderia. The F430 uses a black top Bosch sensor 0265005241. It is no longer used by Ferrari on new cars but is used in a wide range of cars by different manufacturers.
The Scuderia uses a white top Bosch sensor 0265005616. This sensor is still in use by Ferrari and again is used on a number of other cars.
The two sensors are physically identical and use the same wiring plug but I would like to think the key is different thus preventing accidental replacement with the wrong type.
On learning these differences I went ahead and purchased the RHD Scuderia ABS loom, but I may have jumped the gun a little here because knowing what changes were made to 2008 cars I should have double checked if my car already uses the later ABS module and yaw sensor. I will do that today then decide how to proceed, but either way I’d be very surprised if my body loom had provision for a CT off wire. We shall see.
I have also confirmed there are not wiring differences for the E-Diff in F430 and Scuderia.
Scuderia steering system
I knew the Scuderia had a different rack but specifics for these cars is thin on the ground. I finally tracked down an Italian press which covered the mm/giro (turn) measurement of the rack so using that together with the information I already had for the F430 rack I calculated the missing details for the 16M/Scuderia rack. I also identified that the 599 uses the same rack type, so using another piece of info I found for that I could fill in the blanks.
I know from experience that somewhere around 13:1 is the perfect ratio for road and occasional track day use; I've gone down from 15.4:1 to 12.8:1 in my E46 M3 and that's very direct but as far as I'd like to go for fast driving on non-track surfaces. The 458 is somewhere around 11:1 which for me is too much for road use (good for sales by creating an immediate feeling of change from the previous model), however the 599 is in my view pretty much perfect. I'm quite sure that the 599 rack would bolt on to the F430 as long as the longer track rod ends were swapped for the shorter F430 versions but then there's a consideration with ESP programming: a quicker rack without the reprogramming to suit means the system is effectively 'loosened off' because the quicker rack has less steering angle per equivalent wheel angle.
The changes in the Scuderia system also extend to the PAS pump and cooler. The F430 cooler is a simple exposed tube type whereas the Scuderia uses a four row bar and plate cooler. I've ordered the mounting brackets to suit and also require the connecting pipes.
16M engine lid
In a previous post I covered the difference between the F430 Spider and 16M engine lids whereby the 16M has scallops on the structural members in order to clear the larger carbon air box lids. That is something I will do to my lid in due course, but I subsequently noticed that the 16M lid also had modified grille supports to further aid with clearance. The following photos show the F430 vs the cut down 16M parts.
Here are the original mounting brackets removed. I took the opportunity to weigh them.
Here are the cut down trims weighed. Although Ferrari didn't do this with weight saving in mind I wanted to know the combined weight savings of the grille/lid changes.
Cut down trims fitted showing exposed primer previously underneath the full length brackets. This is the area that I will reshape to 16M spec. It will of course be repainted afterwards in satin black.
Weight comparison between F430 and 16M grille mounting screws.
16M grilles fitted.
The Spider models have a specific guard/trim piece at the rear of the engine lid. Ferrari never offered this in carbon but I have decided to commission a one off carbon replacement.
The original part is 200g and I expect to save 150g. This is more of a cosmetic change.
The above engine lid changes combined have saved 1.412kg.
Challenge/16/Scuderia carbon plenum
New clamps and gaskets ready to refit the carbon plenum. I also have plans for the manifold runners that I'll cover in a later post.
The carbon fibre plenum I'd purchased had a crack in the top edge and a couple of abrasion marks between the plenum chambers. I knew this when I bought it but I've only just got around to commissioning a repair; it's now with a repair shop who are also organising a repaint/lacquer in the Speciale style. The following pics show the repair work complete redy for the bodyshop to take over.
Scuderia front bumper
I had sourced a nice used front bumper which was paid for and supposedly en-route from Poland. Two weeks went by and nothing arrived and no contact from the seller, so at that point I expect trouble. I got in touch and was told by the owner that one of his staff had stolen the bumper - which I found a little strange, but not impossible - so he would refund me. He also gave me the option to wait two weeks as he was due another bumper. I decided to take a refund. I lost out on the exchange rate conversion but these things happen.
Two weeks later I received a photo of the next bumper in stock, but I could tell by the shade of grey that it wasn't factory primer. I asked for a photo of the rear side because I can spot a non-genuine bumper a mile off by looking at the rear. The photo wasn't forthcoming. It was around this time that I noticed the seller had advertised the bumper I had bought on Polish eBay for a higher figure, so my advice is to stay well clear of a Polish supercar parts company trading under a name beginning with O.
In the end I bought a brand new OEM bumper from http://www.enfa-international.com/en/ and I can't really recommend them highly enough. Really, really good to deal with. As a bonus I paid only a fraction more than most used number are advertised for.
I've chosen my PPG Rosso Corsa colour shade for spraying the bumpers: 322(O). There are three PPG shades for 322: 322, 322(L), and 322(O).
I've bought a carbon diffuser for the front bumper. It's made by http://www.radstal.com.pl/ - it's a perfect fit and the weave is good. I recommend them.
I did finally receive a photo of the rear side of the other bumper I mentioned. It was a copy!
Misc parts
16M emblems for front wings. I now have the complete set; out of interest I weighed them because they felt heavy.
Antifreeze decal for the header tank. It arrived with a crease in it so I've asked Claudio at Eurospares if he can help - I'm sure it'll be fine. Today I'm going to remove my tank to fabricate and weld on some aluminium ears to mount the carbon fibre cosmetic cover, and after that's complete it'll obviously need to be refinished.
The F430 header tank and air boxes are sprayed in metallic grey whereas the Scuderia lower air box and header tank are finished in a textured black powder coat. I'm going to match the 16M/Scuderia colour but I'll go one step further by sending the tank and air box base to Camcoat for triple ceramic coating. I've always thought this necessary because of the proximity of the air box to the exhaust silencer - the following thermal image taken from a post on Ferrarichat shows that the air box base acts as a big heat sink, which can't be good for optimum performance.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/tech...
Bobbins/isolators to mount the header tank. Mine had some surface rust.
Carbon sill script emblem attached. These are located with three pins and secured with 3M VHB RP45.
Disc securing screws. Mine had surface rust.
CTEK MXS 5 battery charger. This is a more advanced version of the model that was supplied with the car. Thanks to https://www.kumari.net/index.php/cars/ferrari-batt... I've located the necessary connector and pins from RS to build an adapter cable to plug it into the factory fitted charging socket.
DRLs from Scud Ing Swiss. These are the new 2400 Lumen ILUAL43-HDRLV3 'Ultimate Version'.
Exhaust mounts (used) from an E46 M3 and 3m of 10mm stainless bar. I'm going to use these to mock up a new mounting system to replace the heavy and useless standard design.
Exhaust heat shield for rear bumper. This is the outstanding side that was on back order at the factory.
Hill Engineering dead pedal. I fitted one to my last car and it really made a nice finishing touch to the interior.
Number plate plinth for the 16M/Scuderia rear bumper. This is required because the mesh grille sits in-between the plate and the bumper, so the plinth provides a secure fixing base.
Strikers for the A posts. My original strikers had suffered the usual fate of degraded/worn plastic on the striker post. I saw that Ferrari had updated the part and assumed they had increased the thickness of the plastic, or switched to Derlin to make it stronger. They haven't - they just removed it altogether.
Suspension nuts for the arms and shock lower bolts. I had bought a set of nuts for use on the car but I hadn't spotted that Ferrari use grade 10 for everything, so I've bought OEM to use instead.
F430 improvements by year
Taz/Terry Phillips from Ferrari chat once posted a list of changes made to various assembly numbers of F430. I've built on that data with information I've learned and correlated various assembly numbers with VINs in order to create a timeline based spreadsheet showing the list of changes vs approximate year of production. It can be downloaded at the following link:
http://www.mwstewart.co.uk/misc/f430/F430 assembly...
great update, if you are looking to use the m3 mounts in th future it might be worth looking at these:
http://www.hackengineering.co.uk/product/hack-engi...
http://www.hackengineering.co.uk/product/hack-engi...
Hi Mark,
Another great post!
After tales of woe from various websites I finally got round to fitting a set of Capristo exhaust brackets last week and was surprised by a few things:
(1)How easy it was to deflect the transverse leaf spring mounted on the rear of the G/box - some sources suggested that it couldn't be moved even if stood on!?!
(2)How much the nuts needed to be tightened in order that the stainless brackets secured to the underside of the tailpipe/silencer joint would be level and aligned - will it now allow any thermal expansion?
(3)I fitted the large penny washers under the aluminium plates attached to the rear cross member (after reading various threads and poor instructions) which meant that if you also fitted washers under the nuts (good engineering practise!) they would in my cars case, because of stud length, meant using thinner section nyloc nuts to get them in to safety.
(4)How much the OEM parts weighed - approx.8.5lbs in old money - none of the brackets had cracks - although i read somewhere that some owners have had up to 5 cracked brackets in 20K miles!
After coating everything with nickelslip I shall be interested to see if there are any witness marks due to movement, thermal or otherwise.
I look forward to your thoughts and solution with BMW hangers.
ATB
Alan
Another great post!
After tales of woe from various websites I finally got round to fitting a set of Capristo exhaust brackets last week and was surprised by a few things:
(1)How easy it was to deflect the transverse leaf spring mounted on the rear of the G/box - some sources suggested that it couldn't be moved even if stood on!?!
(2)How much the nuts needed to be tightened in order that the stainless brackets secured to the underside of the tailpipe/silencer joint would be level and aligned - will it now allow any thermal expansion?
(3)I fitted the large penny washers under the aluminium plates attached to the rear cross member (after reading various threads and poor instructions) which meant that if you also fitted washers under the nuts (good engineering practise!) they would in my cars case, because of stud length, meant using thinner section nyloc nuts to get them in to safety.
(4)How much the OEM parts weighed - approx.8.5lbs in old money - none of the brackets had cracks - although i read somewhere that some owners have had up to 5 cracked brackets in 20K miles!
After coating everything with nickelslip I shall be interested to see if there are any witness marks due to movement, thermal or otherwise.
I look forward to your thoughts and solution with BMW hangers.
ATB
Alan
DuraAce said:
Great stuff. I love reading about all the research that you put into things.
Where on earth do you find the time though?!
I don't know Where on earth do you find the time though?!
5harp3y said:
great update, if you are looking to use the m3 mounts in th future it might be worth looking at these:
http://www.hackengineering.co.uk/product/hack-engi...
Thanks very much for the link. http://www.hackengineering.co.uk/product/hack-engi...
Those mounts are actually a really bad idea because thermal expansion in the M3 system results in longitudinal growth of approx 30mm. The OEM mounts are designed to accommodate that and of course the vertical movement & vibrations transmitted from the engine. The Hack mounts provide a very small degree of vibration isolation - in exhaust terms a very small - and don’t allow for any movement whatsoever. The increased stress placed on the exhaust itself is considerable. Throw into the mix some heat, aggressive driving, varying degrees of worn engine/gearbox mounts, and you have a recipe for exhaust system component failiure.
The F430 Challenge exhaust I am using weighs a third of the E46 rear silencer so in my application the OEM BMW mounts are actually over-specced. I expect new mounts to last years and years. Incidentally one of the F430’s design issues was the exhaust mounting system. It is near solid and does not allow for much thermal expansion. It is the reason the standard manifolds and mounting brackets fail with regularity.
berksboy26 said:
Hi Mark,
Another great post!
After tales of woe from various websites I finally got round to fitting a set of Capristo exhaust brackets last week and was surprised by a few things:
(1)How easy it was to deflect the transverse leaf spring mounted on the rear of the G/box - some sources suggested that it couldn't be moved even if stood on!?!
(2)How much the nuts needed to be tightened in order that the stainless brackets secured to the underside of the tailpipe/silencer joint would be level and aligned - will it now allow any thermal expansion?
(3)I fitted the large penny washers under the aluminium plates attached to the rear cross member (after reading various threads and poor instructions) which meant that if you also fitted washers under the nuts (good engineering practise!) they would in my cars case, because of stud length, meant using thinner section nyloc nuts to get them in to safety.
(4)How much the OEM parts weighed - approx.8.5lbs in old money - none of the brackets had cracks - although i read somewhere that some owners have had up to 5 cracked brackets in 20K miles!
After coating everything with nickelslip I shall be interested to see if there are any witness marks due to movement, thermal or otherwise.
I look forward to your thoughts and solution with BMW hangers.
ATB
Alan
Hi Alan,Another great post!
After tales of woe from various websites I finally got round to fitting a set of Capristo exhaust brackets last week and was surprised by a few things:
(1)How easy it was to deflect the transverse leaf spring mounted on the rear of the G/box - some sources suggested that it couldn't be moved even if stood on!?!
(2)How much the nuts needed to be tightened in order that the stainless brackets secured to the underside of the tailpipe/silencer joint would be level and aligned - will it now allow any thermal expansion?
(3)I fitted the large penny washers under the aluminium plates attached to the rear cross member (after reading various threads and poor instructions) which meant that if you also fitted washers under the nuts (good engineering practise!) they would in my cars case, because of stud length, meant using thinner section nyloc nuts to get them in to safety.
(4)How much the OEM parts weighed - approx.8.5lbs in old money - none of the brackets had cracks - although i read somewhere that some owners have had up to 5 cracked brackets in 20K miles!
After coating everything with nickelslip I shall be interested to see if there are any witness marks due to movement, thermal or otherwise.
I look forward to your thoughts and solution with BMW hangers.
ATB
Alan
Thank you. Your post is quite timely because a bit later today I will be working on all of the components you describe. I hope mine come apart so easily!
As you know my last car came with the Capristo brackets already installed so I haven’t yet seen the standard mounting system in person. My observations were also that it looks heavy and inefficient.
FYI I saw the full range of movement on my mounts:
Cheers,
Mark
GreatGranny said:
Amazing stuff as usual.
Always look for your updates first when I go on Readers' Rides.
Cheers.Always look for your updates first when I go on Readers' Rides.
p1stonhead said:
A quick question on this epic car - do you need to declare most of these changes to your insurance? Or perhaps supercar insurance gives you a bit of leeway? Im always paranoid of changing the littlest thing on my car and them voiding me if I ever had a claim!
I don't think any insurer gives leeway on anything 
Declare everything.
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