Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
mwstewart said:
I said I wouldn't modify it, but...
I'm having the steering wheel trimmed to my own design by Jack at Royal Steering wheels.
He's starting on it when back from holiday on 4th September
I also found a photo online of another Grigio Silverstone car but with a red roof (I got the colour wrong in my original post; it's Silverstone not Titanio). I'm currently getting quotes for a roof re-trim.
Red roof looks great I'm having the steering wheel trimmed to my own design by Jack at Royal Steering wheels.
He's starting on it when back from holiday on 4th September
I also found a photo online of another Grigio Silverstone car but with a red roof (I got the colour wrong in my original post; it's Silverstone not Titanio). I'm currently getting quotes for a roof re-trim.
Erudite geezer said:
Mr mwstewart Sir, what are your thoughts on the Ferrari wingshields/ badges?
Personally I think no Ferrari should leave the factory without a pair.
Considered getting these for your F430?
I completely agree. I've had a pair of Scuderia Shields on order for a couple of weeks so all being well they will be here next week. The factory ordered shields are £4500 but that price includes a slightly different pair of front wings which are pressed to recess the shields. Personally I think no Ferrari should leave the factory without a pair.
Considered getting these for your F430?
I'll have to make do with the shields stuck directly to my wings.
mwstewart said:
Erudite geezer said:
Mr mwstewart Sir, what are your thoughts on the Ferrari wingshields/ badges?
Personally I think no Ferrari should leave the factory without a pair.
Considered getting these for your F430?
I completely agree. I've had a pair of Scuderia Shields on order for a couple of weeks so all being well they will be here next week. The factory ordered shields are £4500 but that price includes a slightly different pair of front wings which are pressed to recess the shields. Personally I think no Ferrari should leave the factory without a pair.
Considered getting these for your F430?
I'll have to make do with the shields stuck directly to my wings.
Love the red fabric for the roof! With you being so focussed on OEM will anything other than a factory supplied roof drop the value of the car hugely? Especially with such a lovely manual 430 (which is bound to increase). Or will you keep the original roof and swap again when it is time to move on? I'm always enjoying your threads and love the minute details and craftsmanship, so please do not consider my comment a slight on your behalf. Cheers!
Erwin1978 said:
Love the red fabric for the roof! With you being so focussed on OEM will anything other than a factory supplied roof drop the value of the car hugely? Especially with such a lovely manual 430 (which is bound to increase). Or will you keep the original roof and swap again when it is time to move on? I'm always enjoying your threads and love the minute details and craftsmanship, so please do not consider my comment a slight on your behalf. Cheers!
I'm going to use http://www.kbaggstrimming.co.uk/Gallery_Marque/Gal... for the retrim because they already have a pattern for the F430, so as you suggest I can keep the original roof. To be perfectly honest except for the mechanical parts none of the Ferrari parts are particularly great quality, so I almost expect the replacement to be an upgrade I was initially very disappointed with the car, primairly I think because the build quality came as a shock after the kind of performance cars I've owned, and still do (M3). I wasn't quite prepared for what is considered 'normal' within the realms of supercar ownership! I would place the general trim/interior/bodywork fastening quality on par with a Mk4 Fiesta, but with a fabric roof. Don't get me wrong, it isn't terrible, but there is a gulf between it and for example my E46 M3, which let's face it is an old car now. I feel magazines and internet reviews serve to create a kind of romance and aura around these cars that in my opinion isn't fully justified.
I am perhaps being critical because I like well-made things and my expectations were off, but essentially a Ferrari is a great chassis and engine with some - very - nicely designed parts screwed on afterwards in a way only the Italians can. I've had a nosey around some of the trim and fastenings etc. and the best way to sum it up would be: good concepts but sometimes the execution is poor I will be improving some of the trim in due course.
Handling wise it is very good but I need at least another month with it before I've raised my driving to the point where I can explot its limits. On the legal side of a ton my modified m3 is a sharper handling car, and if there wasn't a power difference between the two there would be little in it on a twisty road, however the mid engine balance of the Ferrari can be felt at all times and in fairness as a car it doesn't begin to shine until well into prison-sentance territory. This is where the gap between the two cars opens up.
As other reviews have covered the F430 can pootle along quite happily if it needs to, though I have noticed that after 30 minutes or so of heavy stop/start traffic the clutch can judder so that's something that is best avoided. With the Manettino set to 'wet/slippery' the suspension becomes very pliable, comfortable in fact, though with eight ball joints linking wheels to chassis any transition in road surface is always immediately felt despite the comfortable damping.
The engine is as expected: a masterpiece. I thought the CSL airbox was glorious until I heard the F430; it has such vocal talent and such a wide range of sounds that one can almost play it like an instrument! Between 7k and 8.5k it's simply awesome and it's the first car I've owned that I would call fast. I think any more power than this would just frustate me on the public roads.
Back to the theme of the first paragraph, something has already gone wrong. I dropped off the car this morning to Graypaul in Nottingham as a section of the magnesium roof frame has cracked. I had the sense to buy an extended warranty but this part is being covered under the supplying dealers warranty. I've asked Ferrari to check over the roof to ensure there are no alignment issues or anything else - for example snapped elastic under the fabric - that will cause the issue to reoccur. I had to take a photo as I ended up parked next to a 458 also finished in Grigio Silverstone.
I did find last week that the car has Capristo brackets fitted to the rear silencer which is a sure sign the previous owner knew about the OEM manifold issue and F430 ownership in general, so that's good. In spite of the brackets I have just ordered a pair of stainless tubular manifolds as I couldn't shake the feeling that I was driving around in a grenade with the OEM manifolds still fitted.
I expect to update in a months time and by then have fallen in love with the car. It has happenend before
I am perhaps being critical because I like well-made things and my expectations were off, but essentially a Ferrari is a great chassis and engine with some - very - nicely designed parts screwed on afterwards in a way only the Italians can. I've had a nosey around some of the trim and fastenings etc. and the best way to sum it up would be: good concepts but sometimes the execution is poor
I will be improving some of the trim in due course.Handling wise it is very good but I need at least another month with it before I've raised my driving to the point where I can explot its limits. On the legal side of a ton my modified m3 is a sharper handling car, and if there wasn't a power difference between the two there would be little in it on a twisty road, however the mid engine balance of the Ferrari can be felt at all times and in fairness as a car it doesn't begin to shine until well into prison-sentance territory. This is where the gap between the two cars opens up.
As other reviews have covered the F430 can pootle along quite happily if it needs to, though I have noticed that after 30 minutes or so of heavy stop/start traffic the clutch can judder so that's something that is best avoided. With the Manettino set to 'wet/slippery' the suspension becomes very pliable, comfortable in fact, though with eight ball joints linking wheels to chassis any transition in road surface is always immediately felt despite the comfortable damping.
The engine is as expected: a masterpiece. I thought the CSL airbox was glorious until I heard the F430; it has such vocal talent and such a wide range of sounds that one can almost play it like an instrument! Between 7k and 8.5k it's simply awesome and it's the first car I've owned that I would call fast. I think any more power than this would just frustate me on the public roads.
Back to the theme of the first paragraph, something has already gone wrong. I dropped off the car this morning to Graypaul in Nottingham as a section of the magnesium roof frame has cracked. I had the sense to buy an extended warranty but this part is being covered under the supplying dealers warranty. I've asked Ferrari to check over the roof to ensure there are no alignment issues or anything else - for example snapped elastic under the fabric - that will cause the issue to reoccur. I had to take a photo as I ended up parked next to a 458 also finished in Grigio Silverstone.
I did find last week that the car has Capristo brackets fitted to the rear silencer which is a sure sign the previous owner knew about the OEM manifold issue and F430 ownership in general, so that's good. In spite of the brackets I have just ordered a pair of stainless tubular manifolds as I couldn't shake the feeling that I was driving around in a grenade with the OEM manifolds still fitted.
I expect to update in a months time and by then have fallen in love with the car. It has happenend before
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 13:11
Couldn't agree with you more regarding your thoughts / comments on supercar build quality (Ferrari in particular) being somewhat disappointing. Obviously I've never owned one, but am fortunate enough to work on a wide range of very expensive and often rare exotica and I sometimes struggle to figure how their price tags were ever justified! Look forward to seeing what subtle improvements you make to this, going by your other cars it's sure to be a winner!
Will be interested to see the wheel too as I've been planning to send mine to Jack for a while now too but have never got round to it!
Will be interested to see the wheel too as I've been planning to send mine to Jack for a while now too but have never got round to it!
Cheers
Scuderia Shield copies. These are gel badges and I've since decided to go for a replica enamel badge version produced by someone on Ferrari Chat.
My replacement manifolds have arrived. They are mande by 'Top Speed' http://www.topspeedauto.com/ and cost an incredible £655 including delivery for the pair. They are a 4-1 design which optimises power in the top end of the rev range. I chose them after looking at the alternatives;
Fabspeed/Agency power - Quality of construiction appears identical to Top Speed except for the flange, which is cast and of better quality. £1,600 ish
Capristo - As above excpet these are a 4-2-1 design which optimises mid-range torque rather than top end. £3,676.45.
Supersprint - Of the manifolds I have seen these are clearly the best design and quality. £3338.23
Why am I replacing the manifolds? The OEM Ferrari manifolds contain a pre-car and are prone to cracking, and due to the route the primaries take around the chassis, debris can collect close to the exhaust ports and enter the engine on the over-run. The manifolds were revised in 2008 and called 'Mk2', but even these fail. I'm not interested in additional power but this is a welcome side effect due to the removal of the pre-cats in all of the after market manifolds.
Why have I chosen Top Speed? I don't like how certain components attract a premium just because of the target vehcile or market, for example the often disproportionate cost of powder coating/refurbishing alloy wheels just because they are a car fashion accessory, or the price of certain components for premium or exotic cars. I chose the Top Speed manifolds because they are exceptionally well-priced and appeared in photos to be procuded to a standard which meant they comfortably out-lasted the OEM manifolds. I beleive they are new to market hence I was happy to treat them as an evaluation.
What are they like?
The manifolds have been TIG welded. It's not artwork quality but perfectly functional and decent quality. Material is T304.
Welding, O2 sensor, and cat flange detail.
The flange has been welded externally and internally. Internal welds are neat and have been dressed where required.
The manifolds have been constructed so that the steps from overlapped sections face away from exhaust flow, which is ideal.
This next photo shows the worst part for me: the joint and resulting radius of the rearmost cylinders could be smoother.
Mating face tolderance was circa 1mm. This is within spec for the composite gaskets supplied by Top Speed, but is boderline for a multi-layter-steel (MLS) gasket used on the OEM manifolds.
Composite gaskets supplied:
I perfer the MLS gasket so I decided to have the manifolds linished to suitable tolerances i.e. within ~0.25mm.
Ferrari gaskets ordered from Eurospares.
I will report back regarding fitment once I have the car back from Graypaul.
Something else I want to mention is another enthusiast, Aldous Voice, who has an excellent blog: http://aldousvoice.com/ Aldous has been very helpful to date in answering various questions I've had about the car.
Scuderia Shield copies. These are gel badges and I've since decided to go for a replica enamel badge version produced by someone on Ferrari Chat.
My replacement manifolds have arrived. They are mande by 'Top Speed' http://www.topspeedauto.com/ and cost an incredible £655 including delivery for the pair. They are a 4-1 design which optimises power in the top end of the rev range. I chose them after looking at the alternatives;
Fabspeed/Agency power - Quality of construiction appears identical to Top Speed except for the flange, which is cast and of better quality. £1,600 ish
Capristo - As above excpet these are a 4-2-1 design which optimises mid-range torque rather than top end. £3,676.45.
Supersprint - Of the manifolds I have seen these are clearly the best design and quality. £3338.23
Why am I replacing the manifolds? The OEM Ferrari manifolds contain a pre-car and are prone to cracking, and due to the route the primaries take around the chassis, debris can collect close to the exhaust ports and enter the engine on the over-run. The manifolds were revised in 2008 and called 'Mk2', but even these fail. I'm not interested in additional power but this is a welcome side effect due to the removal of the pre-cats in all of the after market manifolds.
Why have I chosen Top Speed? I don't like how certain components attract a premium just because of the target vehcile or market, for example the often disproportionate cost of powder coating/refurbishing alloy wheels just because they are a car fashion accessory, or the price of certain components for premium or exotic cars. I chose the Top Speed manifolds because they are exceptionally well-priced and appeared in photos to be procuded to a standard which meant they comfortably out-lasted the OEM manifolds. I beleive they are new to market hence I was happy to treat them as an evaluation.
What are they like?
The manifolds have been TIG welded. It's not artwork quality but perfectly functional and decent quality. Material is T304.
Welding, O2 sensor, and cat flange detail.
The flange has been welded externally and internally. Internal welds are neat and have been dressed where required.
The manifolds have been constructed so that the steps from overlapped sections face away from exhaust flow, which is ideal.
This next photo shows the worst part for me: the joint and resulting radius of the rearmost cylinders could be smoother.
Mating face tolderance was circa 1mm. This is within spec for the composite gaskets supplied by Top Speed, but is boderline for a multi-layter-steel (MLS) gasket used on the OEM manifolds.
Composite gaskets supplied:
I perfer the MLS gasket so I decided to have the manifolds linished to suitable tolerances i.e. within ~0.25mm.
Ferrari gaskets ordered from Eurospares.
I will report back regarding fitment once I have the car back from Graypaul.
Something else I want to mention is another enthusiast, Aldous Voice, who has an excellent blog: http://aldousvoice.com/ Aldous has been very helpful to date in answering various questions I've had about the car.
mwstewart said:
Max M4X WW said:
Being a serial Fiesta owner like yourself Mark that had me in stitches 
Haha, you will also apprecaite the electronic release button for the glove box:
Good work with the manifold's, I'm also tight so a cheaper option is always good when it nearly matches others
The car is back from Graypaul and now sports a replacement section of the magensium convertible roof frame. The underlying cause was identified as a broken pin. The roof had an adjustment and alignment check as part of the work and was given a clean bill of health, which I'm really pleased about as the roof mechanism can and will cause issues if out of spec. It's something useful for the history file.
I'm not impressed with the customer service from Graypaul however; I had to call them for updates and when I did it felt like I was causing them trouble. In comparison I have the Golf booked in on Friday for a £99 service and I've already had a courtesy call to confirm and remind me! I will look elsewhere next time even if it means a long trip.
I'm not impressed with the customer service from Graypaul however; I had to call them for updates and when I did it felt like I was causing them trouble. In comparison I have the Golf booked in on Friday for a £99 service and I've already had a courtesy call to confirm and remind me! I will look elsewhere next time even if it means a long trip.
mwstewart said:
The car is back from Graypaul and now sports a replacement section of the magensium convertible roof frame. The underlying cause was identified as a broken pin. The roof had an adjustment and alignment check as part of the work and was given a clean bill of health, which I'm really pleased about as the roof mechanism can and will cause issues if out of spec. It's something useful for the history file.
I'm not impressed with the customer service from Graypaul however; I had to call them for updates and when I did it felt like I was causing them trouble. In comparison I have the Golf booked in on Friday for a £99 service and I've already had a courtesy call to confirm and remind me! I will look elsewhere next time even if it means a long trip.
Best way, vote with your feet...I'm not impressed with the customer service from Graypaul however; I had to call them for updates and when I did it felt like I was causing them trouble. In comparison I have the Golf booked in on Friday for a £99 service and I've already had a courtesy call to confirm and remind me! I will look elsewhere next time even if it means a long trip.
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