Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
neilbauer said:
The work you do on all your cars is amazing, but you do seem to spend more time with them in parts than actually driving them!
Do you get more fun in the garage than you do driving the car?
Phase 1 is late by a month but I always get carried away!Do you get more fun in the garage than you do driving the car?
We're going to France & Switzerland in it next month then southern Spain the month after.
mwstewart said:
neilbauer said:
The work you do on all your cars is amazing, but you do seem to spend more time with them in parts than actually driving them!
Do you get more fun in the garage than you do driving the car?
Phase 1 is late by a month but I always get carried away!Do you get more fun in the garage than you do driving the car?
We're going to France & Switzerland in it next month then southern Spain the month after.
mwstewart said:
neilbauer said:
The work you do on all your cars is amazing, but you do seem to spend more time with them in parts than actually driving them!
Do you get more fun in the garage than you do driving the car?
Phase 1 is late by a month but I always get carried away!Do you get more fun in the garage than you do driving the car?
We're going to France & Switzerland in it next month then southern Spain the month after.
I have a pretty big list of parts on the list which total an estimated 50Kg of further weight reduction, but the car as it is now is a significant change over standard so I'm going to take some time to get to know it and enjoy it. I will no doubt start work again over the winter layup period but I need to devote some time to the Fiesta and a house renovation project, so there's no end date for the next phase really.
Phase two will be the rest of the weight savings and completion of the Scuderia electronics including Superfast 2.
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
Phase two will be the rest of the weight savings and completion of the Scuderia electronics including Superfast 2.
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
mwstewart said:
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
Zombie said:
mwstewart said:
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
indeed!mwstewart said:
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
Now that i've had a few beers (off tomorrow ) I have some thoughts, not criticisms per sa...My Dad and I have been known to (re)build an engine or two and they have produced remarkable figures. So I feel somewhat qualified to offer an opinion, but I admit that it relates to a specific corner of vast field. Alfa v6's. (Busso)
They're essentially a 70's throwback that started as a 12v v6 in 2.5 and 3.0 configurations. It's a decent engine but, crucially, the cylinders are widely spaced relative to modern engines:
http://forum.alfa156.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID...
Which means they have a decent sized water jacket to play with.
There are a number of big bore conversions that are available which makes sense on the face of it - the pistons/ liners will fit in the block. 3.0 to 3.5 and 3.2 - 3.8
But in doing so the head also needs modifying, they weld up the channels round the heads reducing their flow capacity.
Which, typically means the head gaskets and heads don't last vey long. However it is entirely dependant on who's welded the heads up and who's developed the method. But I don't know of a single big bore busso conversion that's used on a daily basis.
Hence
And then you're proposing additional read work that will ultimately result in greater heat.
Brave man. I'd try it without the big valve gas flowed heads first.
Unless, you are working with a proven base? Rather than gold plated snake oil?
Edited by Zombie on Friday 22 July 00:41
Edited by Zombie on Friday 22 July 00:46
Interesting project. The F136 architecture was designed at the outset for a capacity range of 3,997 (GT) to 4,691 (Y) hence the studs, cylinder centres, and water jackets are commonised and positioned to suit the various configurations, but the best capacity and rod ratio is somewhere around the 4.5l mark.
Development has been under way on my spec and some heads already sectioned to learn about the port structure and internal castings. There can't be any welding or guesswork with the target peak RPM, and I want durability to be better than present; the rod angle in the F430 is less than ideal at mid stroke and whilst rod failures are rare, they aren't unheard of. Ferrari addressed the design on the 458 by using a 3mm longer rod, a variant of which I will use together with different crank and pistons.
Development has been under way on my spec and some heads already sectioned to learn about the port structure and internal castings. There can't be any welding or guesswork with the target peak RPM, and I want durability to be better than present; the rod angle in the F430 is less than ideal at mid stroke and whilst rod failures are rare, they aren't unheard of. Ferrari addressed the design on the 458 by using a 3mm longer rod, a variant of which I will use together with different crank and pistons.
mwstewart said:
Interesting project. The F136 architecture was designed at the outset for a capacity range of 3,997 (GT) to 4,691 (Y) hence the studs, cylinder centres, and water jackets are commonised and positioned to suit the various configurations, but the best capacity and rod ratio is somewhere around the 4.5l mark.
Development has been under way on my spec and some heads already sectioned to learn about the port structure and internal castings. There can't be any welding or guesswork with the target peak RPM, and I want durability to be better than present; the rod angle in the F430 is less than ideal at mid stroke and whilst rod failures are rare, they aren't unheard of. Ferrari addressed the design on the 458 by using a 3mm longer rod, a variant of which I will use together with different crank and pistons.
Really interesting stuff (and excellent thread!) Development has been under way on my spec and some heads already sectioned to learn about the port structure and internal castings. There can't be any welding or guesswork with the target peak RPM, and I want durability to be better than present; the rod angle in the F430 is less than ideal at mid stroke and whilst rod failures are rare, they aren't unheard of. Ferrari addressed the design on the 458 by using a 3mm longer rod, a variant of which I will use together with different crank and pistons.
mwstewart said:
I have a pretty big list of parts on the list which total an estimated 50Kg of further weight reduction, but the car as it is now is a significant change over standard so I'm going to take some time to get to know it and enjoy it. I will no doubt start work again over the winter layup period but I need to devote some time to the Fiesta and a house renovation project, so there's no end date for the next phase really.
Phase two will be the rest of the weight savings and completion of the Scuderia electronics including Superfast 2.
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
Hopefully you'll be starting a house renovation thread over in Homes, Gardens & DIY.Phase two will be the rest of the weight savings and completion of the Scuderia electronics including Superfast 2.
Phase three is an engine rebuild with different liners, rods, pistons, cams (regrind of Challenge spec), and some Speciale parts. I've already been in discussion with a person in Sweden to whom I will entrust the heads, and have a head specification developed for +12.6% more flow on the inlet and +21.2% on the exhaust. Calculations indicate 550-570bhp/8700 rpm for 4308cc depending on compression ratio, but I'm going for more capacity to target 600bhp/8850 rpm, hence the new liners etc.
Thanks all. The house is a step on the ladder which will be sold as soon as completed, hence I'm not really as enthusiastic about it as I am the cars, but we're working towards a plot and self-build which I will document.
Holiday starts 12th Aug. I'll dig out the plan later to see where we'll be and when.
Holiday starts 12th Aug. I'll dig out the plan later to see where we'll be and when.
mwstewart said:
Interesting project. The F136 architecture was designed at the outset for a capacity range of 3,997 (GT) to 4,691 (Y) hence the studs, cylinder centres, and water jackets are commonised and positioned to suit the various configurations, but the best capacity and rod ratio is somewhere around the 4.5l mark.
Ah, right. I should've known you'd have this covered! Pretty obvious now that I think about too, given the 4.7 v8 in masers... And the 4.5 in the 458.mwstewart said:
Development has been under way on my spec and some heads already sectioned to learn about the port structure and internal castings. There can't be any welding or guesswork with the target peak RPM, and I want durability to be better than present; the rod angle in the F430 is less than ideal at mid stroke and whilst rod failures are rare, they aren't unheard of. Ferrari addressed the design on the 458 by using a 3mm longer rod, a variant of which I will use together with different crank and pistons.
You've been sectioning heads? Fair play.How much of the 458 engine is interchangeable? Or does it's injection system kill that thought? You mention crank - there can't be many (flat plane) replacement options.
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