Discussion
My old MOMO steering wheel came back from Royal today and they did a terrific job. I asked for black alcantara, with M colour stitching and a slightly thicker than OE feel, as I have pretty big hands. I'm really pleased with the finished result.
The engine is off being rebuilt and there's a fair bit to be done. This is the first time this engine has been apart, as far as we can tell. It has done over 110k though so it's hardly surprising. It's the price of the parts that has been the biggest shock though and kind of explains why so many people opt to go with the s50 or s54 conversion instead. I always wanted to stay with the s14 though, so have had to bite the bullet when it comes to parts cost. I've also opted to go with forged pistons, lightweight flywheel, flowed head with matched ports etc. I'm hoping we will see upwards of 250 bhp but time will tell.
The engine is off being rebuilt and there's a fair bit to be done. This is the first time this engine has been apart, as far as we can tell. It has done over 110k though so it's hardly surprising. It's the price of the parts that has been the biggest shock though and kind of explains why so many people opt to go with the s50 or s54 conversion instead. I always wanted to stay with the s14 though, so have had to bite the bullet when it comes to parts cost. I've also opted to go with forged pistons, lightweight flywheel, flowed head with matched ports etc. I'm hoping we will see upwards of 250 bhp but time will tell.
Currently still waiting on parts, which is a bit frustrating although it's no hardship having the car off the road over winter. As well as ARP studs and bolts, Automac are also supplying a lighter flywheel, new clutch and the Schrick cams. The 'big wing' sump is coming from the USA though. http://www.automac.co.uk/category/18952297
Sandy Brown https://www.facebook.com/Sandy-Brown-racing-engine... (who is doing the mapping using the dyno at ARM) is making the loom over the next few days and it will be good to lose the compromise of running the Alpha N piggy-back system. It has been OK but was just so sensitive to ambient temp' changes and elevation. It could feel like a different car from one day to the next.
It's easy to understand why so many people opted to swap out their s14's for s50/s54's as even just a regular rebuild is bloody expensive. Cam chain kits are well over £600 and when you start looking for a bit more power, it starts to get silly pretty quickly. Even then you're left with less power than an s50/s54 gives you straight out of the box! That said, it's all about the s14 for me. I know any people here don't have much time for 4 cylinder engines but I'm just not one of them. I've always thought the s14 was pretty special and one with 250+ bhp is another league. I know ARM's own car, with a sight more than 250bhp!, was pretty spectacular at Oulton Park recently. The s14 and sequential Drenth gearbox (with flat shift) meant it was showing much more modern / powerful cars a clean pair of heels and spitting a bit of flame as it did so!
Sandy Brown https://www.facebook.com/Sandy-Brown-racing-engine... (who is doing the mapping using the dyno at ARM) is making the loom over the next few days and it will be good to lose the compromise of running the Alpha N piggy-back system. It has been OK but was just so sensitive to ambient temp' changes and elevation. It could feel like a different car from one day to the next.
It's easy to understand why so many people opted to swap out their s14's for s50/s54's as even just a regular rebuild is bloody expensive. Cam chain kits are well over £600 and when you start looking for a bit more power, it starts to get silly pretty quickly. Even then you're left with less power than an s50/s54 gives you straight out of the box! That said, it's all about the s14 for me. I know any people here don't have much time for 4 cylinder engines but I'm just not one of them. I've always thought the s14 was pretty special and one with 250+ bhp is another league. I know ARM's own car, with a sight more than 250bhp!, was pretty spectacular at Oulton Park recently. The s14 and sequential Drenth gearbox (with flat shift) meant it was showing much more modern / powerful cars a clean pair of heels and spitting a bit of flame as it did so!
e21Mark said:
My old MOMO steering wheel came back from Royal today and they did a terrific job. I asked for black alcantara, with M colour stitching and a slightly thicker than OE feel, as I have pretty big hands. I'm really pleased with the finished result.
The engine is off being rebuilt and there's a fair bit to be done. This is the first time this engine has been apart, as far as we can tell. It has done over 110k though so it's hardly surprising. It's the price of the parts that has been the biggest shock though and kind of explains why so many people opt to go with the s50 or s54 conversion instead. I always wanted to stay with the s14 though, so have had to bite the bullet when it comes to parts cost. I've also opted to go with forged pistons, lightweight flywheel, flowed head with matched ports etc. I'm hoping we will see upwards of 250 bhp but time will tell.
I had my Atiwe wheel done in a similar way Mark - black Alcantara, tri-colour stitching and a bit more 'meat' than standard - very pleased with the result - feels lovely to use The engine is off being rebuilt and there's a fair bit to be done. This is the first time this engine has been apart, as far as we can tell. It has done over 110k though so it's hardly surprising. It's the price of the parts that has been the biggest shock though and kind of explains why so many people opt to go with the s50 or s54 conversion instead. I always wanted to stay with the s14 though, so have had to bite the bullet when it comes to parts cost. I've also opted to go with forged pistons, lightweight flywheel, flowed head with matched ports etc. I'm hoping we will see upwards of 250 bhp but time will tell.
e21Mark said:
Currently still waiting on parts, which is a bit frustrating although it's no hardship having the car off the road over winter. As well as ARP studs and bolts, Automac are also supplying a lighter flywheel, new clutch and the Schrick cams. The 'big wing' sump is coming from the USA though. http://www.automac.co.uk/category/18952297
Sandy Brown https://www.facebook.com/Sandy-Brown-racing-engine... (who is doing the mapping using the dyno at ARM) is making the loom over the next few days and it will be good to lose the compromise of running the Alpha N piggy-back system. It has been OK but was just so sensitive to ambient temp' changes and elevation. It could feel like a different car from one day to the next.
It's easy to understand why so many people opted to swap out their s14's for s50/s54's as even just a regular rebuild is bloody expensive. Cam chain kits are well over £600 and when you start looking for a bit more power, it starts to get silly pretty quickly. Even then you're left with less power than an s50/s54 gives you straight out of the box! That said, it's all about the s14 for me. I know any people here don't have much time for 4 cylinder engines but I'm just not one of them. I've always thought the s14 was pretty special and one with 250+ bhp is another league. I know ARM's own car, with a sight more than 250bhp!, was pretty spectacular at Oulton Park recently. The s14 and sequential Drenth gearbox (with flat shift) meant it was showing much more modern / powerful cars a clean pair of heels and spitting a bit of flame as it did so!
250+ bhp s14, how much would a set up like that cost going from standard spec?Sandy Brown https://www.facebook.com/Sandy-Brown-racing-engine... (who is doing the mapping using the dyno at ARM) is making the loom over the next few days and it will be good to lose the compromise of running the Alpha N piggy-back system. It has been OK but was just so sensitive to ambient temp' changes and elevation. It could feel like a different car from one day to the next.
It's easy to understand why so many people opted to swap out their s14's for s50/s54's as even just a regular rebuild is bloody expensive. Cam chain kits are well over £600 and when you start looking for a bit more power, it starts to get silly pretty quickly. Even then you're left with less power than an s50/s54 gives you straight out of the box! That said, it's all about the s14 for me. I know any people here don't have much time for 4 cylinder engines but I'm just not one of them. I've always thought the s14 was pretty special and one with 250+ bhp is another league. I know ARM's own car, with a sight more than 250bhp!, was pretty spectacular at Oulton Park recently. The s14 and sequential Drenth gearbox (with flat shift) meant it was showing much more modern / powerful cars a clean pair of heels and spitting a bit of flame as it did so!
japseye007 said:
250+ bhp s14, how much would a set up like that cost going from standard spec?
There are far better qualified people to answer that than I. I can give you an idea of what has been spent thus far though?Head rebuild (assuming the guides are ok) inc flow work is between £750 - 1000 dependent on who you use? Obviously new heads are NLA and even used they're rare nowadays, so you need to be sure you use someone who knows what they're doing.
Cams are about £850 (again dependent on supplier)
Flywheel circa £300.
Wossner forged pistons £550 (currently on offer so £300 off RRP)
DTA ECU is upwards of £450 (dependent on model you choose) plus new loom (£250'ish) and related sensors etc. There is also the cost of mapping to be taken into account.
I was fortunate enough to already have the DTM style air box fitted.
Added to that is the cost of service items like head gasket, timing chain kit inc new tensioner etc, so another £1k give or take a few pounds. There's also new oil pump, plugs, filters etc etc. I've also opted to go with a baffled, 'big wing' sump i an effort to protect my investment. Finally there's the labour cost to factor in, dependent on what (if anything) you are able to do yourself?
I'm sure I could have cut a few corners and the standalone, Schrick cams etc were choice over necessity but a) this isn't a car I intend selling any time soon and b) as the engine had to come apart anyway (to replace the damaged timing chain cover and oil pump) it just made sense to do everything now, rather than later.
I could have just gone and bought an s54/3.2 for £2 - 2.5k but (personally) I think the s14 is part of what makes E30 M3 special. I know 4 pots aren't a PH favourite but when you hear an s14 (like the one in ARM's own car) screaming past at 9k RPM it's pretty hard to beat. The worst bit is the cost though. I am in no way wealthy and am doing as much overtime as I can to pay for this. I don't see why things like the timing chain kit are so bloody expensive though?
Anyway, hope this helps? I'm sure those with more knowledge/experience will add anything I've missed or got wrong?
I saw the ARM car at Oulton Park earlier in the month and was very impressed. The costs for an S14 soon mount up, I also found this out as you are, although 265bhp is making it easier to swallow.
Re. clutches, mine has been fitted with an E46 M3 clutch to a lightened flywheel. JC Racing that work on mine say that it's a good conversion as it's obviously designed for far more torque than an S14 could ever throw at it and it's standard BMW parts. Might be worth contacting them regarding the how's for such a conversion, I'm not sure on all of the ins and outs of fitting it myself.
Re. clutches, mine has been fitted with an E46 M3 clutch to a lightened flywheel. JC Racing that work on mine say that it's a good conversion as it's obviously designed for far more torque than an S14 could ever throw at it and it's standard BMW parts. Might be worth contacting them regarding the how's for such a conversion, I'm not sure on all of the ins and outs of fitting it myself.
Thanks for that. One of the things I have always liked about BMW's is the way you can mix and match some parts. I think Automac have already supplied the clutch and lightened flywheel but it's something I will remember in future.
Right now I am just trying to do as much overtime as I can, whilst spending the absolute minimum day to day. Christmas and New Year are my busiest time, so am hoping to be able to squirrel away a few quid in the coming weeks. I'm resigned to not having the car back till Spring now anyway.
Right now I am just trying to do as much overtime as I can, whilst spending the absolute minimum day to day. Christmas and New Year are my busiest time, so am hoping to be able to squirrel away a few quid in the coming weeks. I'm resigned to not having the car back till Spring now anyway.
Ever since I bought my M3 the gearbox has been a little 'reluctant' when cold. I usually select 3rd, 2nd and then first for the first time, then allow the oil to warm. Once a few miles have been covered it's fine but this has always been something that bugged me. Anyway, in for a penny etc and I have had the box rebuilt. In fairness, it has covered 100k miles and a rebuild is well overdue anyway. This, the new clutch and the Samsona sould really transform the gearchange.
I've also got some Christmas lights on order.
I've also got some Christmas lights on order.
Some amount of progress over the past few months Mark and work planned sounds immense. Good man.
I would have loved to have done something like this to an E30 M3 if the prices hadn't gone to the moon...
The ARM car looks serious. Anyone have some links to videos etc? All I'm getting is control arm etc type results....
I would have loved to have done something like this to an E30 M3 if the prices hadn't gone to the moon...
The ARM car looks serious. Anyone have some links to videos etc? All I'm getting is control arm etc type results....
e21Mark said:
I've also got some Christmas lights on order.
The ARM car is built to pretty much Grp A spec with around the 300 brake mark and a 9k rev limit. It sounds immense and was making about 107db thanks to the induction noise! I'm still looking for video from last weekends Rockingham Stages but evidently it's a bit of a flame thrower!
Well the only thing holding up my car now is the new cam chain and guides. It's on back order from Germany but there's no expected date for delivery, which is pretty annoying. It's not as if I can simply go elsewhere. I'll simply have to wait it out I guess?
The Evo chin spoiler is NLA so I have had to go with a fibreglass copy. It's actually pretty good quality but the problem is the lack of fixings. Obviously I don't want to just screw it on, so am on the look out for a way of attaching some fixings. If anyone can suggest a solution please do?
The only other consideration right now is whether to opt for aftermarket con rods? I've been looking at those offered by Arrow but am wondering if there's any real need? I don't want to spend another £200 if there isn't any benefit above and beyond bragging rights.
The Evo chin spoiler is NLA so I have had to go with a fibreglass copy. It's actually pretty good quality but the problem is the lack of fixings. Obviously I don't want to just screw it on, so am on the look out for a way of attaching some fixings. If anyone can suggest a solution please do?
The only other consideration right now is whether to opt for aftermarket con rods? I've been looking at those offered by Arrow but am wondering if there's any real need? I don't want to spend another £200 if there isn't any benefit above and beyond bragging rights.
https://www.sinclair-rush.co.uk/ Should be able to find suitable clips from them.
A justification for the con rods could be if you plan on future engine mods? If not then I doubt with this range of power that they are needed unless you're competing perhaps?
If neither of the above I'd be inclined to leave the standard ones if they are strong enough. Unless, of course there is a significant weight saving... after all the other work you've had done would be worth the extra coin imo.
Hope I've suitably confused you!
If neither of the above I'd be inclined to leave the standard ones if they are strong enough. Unless, of course there is a significant weight saving... after all the other work you've had done would be worth the extra coin imo.
Hope I've suitably confused you!
Definitely worth keeping an eye out for cam chain guides from some other source, BMW parts can be on back order for years before they get a new batch made. Which part or parts are you waiting on?
Edited by RichardM5 on Tuesday 20th December 06:54
Edited by RichardM5 on Tuesday 20th December 06:55
WRT con rods, the factory balance spec is +-4g total and +-2g on big/small ends. Not very precise!
I would consider balancing the originals and use ARP bolt. Originals are safe to 8.5k rpm.
But, when you look at the cost of balancing and bolts, what is the price difference and then decided if 70g (approx. 640g vs 570g) weight saving of Arrow rods are worth it.
The "while I'm in there" affliction is quite troubling for the wallet.
I would consider balancing the originals and use ARP bolt. Originals are safe to 8.5k rpm.
But, when you look at the cost of balancing and bolts, what is the price difference and then decided if 70g (approx. 640g vs 570g) weight saving of Arrow rods are worth it.
The "while I'm in there" affliction is quite troubling for the wallet.
Edited by stevesingo on Tuesday 20th December 13:40
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff