Fiat Twin-Cam Powered Westfield

Fiat Twin-Cam Powered Westfield

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Mr Tidy

22,327 posts

127 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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Yes OP, thread is still being read!

Sounds like you have had some great fun with your Westy. thumbup

Lovely engines those Fiat twin-cams - had a 1600 and an 1800 in Fiat saloons back in the late 70s, and that exhaust looks lovely.

Good luck with the rest of the season!

BenWRXSEi

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
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Thanks! thumbup

Too Late

5,094 posts

235 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
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Love the last update. Great work!

BenWRXSEi

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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Little GIF from the last round at Snetterton. Final season update and stuff coming in the next week or so once BT pull their fingers out of their arses and fix my broadband furiousrage



Resto157

40 posts

94 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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Looking forward to the update.

BenWRXSEi

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Monday 7th November 2016
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Well, the season is over and I’m currently sat in a hotel in Cincinnati (officially the most boring city in the world) so I think it’s time for an update.

First up, Anglesey – if nothing else, the biggest pain in the arse to get to from the home counties. As one of the other competitors put it, the biggest problem with Anglesey is that Manchester’s in the way hehe

Still, the event was to be joint run with the Toyota Sprint Series, so my Celica-owning mate (and room-mate for most of the last two seasons!) and I duly schlepped up there on Saturday, eventually arriving late afternoon. There was a 24-hour 2CV race going on so we braved the wind and walked right round the track perimeter, trying to pay attention to the lines the racers were using and generally enjoying a bit of grass-roots motorsport.





The 2CV race didn’t finish until 10am the next morning, so after a pleasant evening of local beer and hearty pie we took a leisurely trip back to the track to be scrutineered, sign on and watch the survivors competitors cross the finish line. After an admirably quick turnaround by the Javelin crew we were out on the practice runs and the first timed runs of the day.

Fortunately, Anglesey turned out to be well worth the journey. It really is a fantastic track, with all sorts of cambers and elevations I’ve never had to deal with before. Somehow I managed my fastest lap on my fourth run of the day – lucky really, as the heavens opened mid-afternoon meaning no-one would be putting any blinders on the board!

Still, I’d gone all that way and it seemed a shame to waste track-time, so the waterproofs were donned and back out we went biggrin

Usual video format here – my best run, followed by the two runs I was cocking about in the wet hehe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG4CxmwYdJI

Not my best driving really, looking back. I spent the day really struggling with understeer through the slower corners (not this one though!)



Position was less impressive (3rd out of 4 in my class) but it was a lot of fun. And, understeer aside, the old westy performed admirably.

The next, and penultimate, round was to be at Woodbridge – site of my first ever sprint and still one of my favourite venues. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to make it as I being rather distracted by something else…



I’m not even sorry.



My homework before the final event at Snetterton (after rattling all the bd way to Wales and back) was to give the trailer a bit of TLC. This mostly involved stripping some weight by removing the previous-owner-DIY centre section and giving it a general clean up and check over. I think it had seen better days, certainly….




That’s better smile





The final hurrah of this year was to be a full weekend of fun at Snetterton – a trackday on the Saturday (unbelievably my first this year!) on the 200 circuit and the sprint on Sunday on the 300. Admittedly I did worry a little about whether the car would stand up to a full weekend’s abuse – particularly after a fellow competitor blew the engine on his Elise at Snet a couple of days before – but I’d already started a mental list of things that needed to happen over winter so figured I may as well enjoy it! I packed all the tools I could think of along with my daily wheel/tyre combo (a set of Federal 595 RSRs which are a few years old now) and headed up.

The trackday itself was excellent – very few stoppages and minimal idiots (aside from one chap in an E36 compact who WOULD NOT move out of the way) and a good mix of cars on track. While I’m not one for giant-slaying I was pleased with how we got on. I think being able to overtake through Coran (by consent) really helped as I wasn’t relying so much on more powerful cars letting my by on the straights. Managed to keep it mostly on the track as well hehe



The Federals, as predicted, took a couple of laps to warm up and were a bit squealy compared to the R888s I sprint with. More worrying was that after 7-8 laps I was starting to see a brief, but still alarming, dip in oil pressure after the long right-hander of Coram going left into Murrays. It was only momentary, but led me to keeping stints fairly short and has put paid to any ideas I might have had about running slicks next year without going for a pricey dry-sump setup.

For the last couple of runs I swapped over to the soft-compound R888s to scrub them in for the following day. Mindful of the oil pressure I kept the stints down to 4-5 laps but they’re still such an improvement – not bad for a £200 set of second-hand wheels and tyres that have lasted two seasons!

After a very pleasant day, those of us who were doing both events managed to get scrutineered as the sun went down…



I was feeling pretty confident at this point. We all know how that ends!

The scrutineer made a few ‘hmmm’-ing noises as he pointed out a bit of oil here, a touch of coolant there, and a few other little bits that had been fine all season but were now mysteriously not OK. In fading light I gave everything a clean up as best I could, tightened a couple of jubilee clips here and there and headed back to the hotel, mildly concerned but so knackered after a day hacking around in circles I was asleep by 9pm! Arriving the next day I was heartened to see that the spreading pools of liquid I was half-expecting to see under the car had not materialised, so after a quick check over it was time for the sighting laps.

Oh yeah, did I mention it rained?

After tip-toeing around with everyone else I tried to use the untimed practice solo run to see if a wet Snet really was as bad as everyone said it was. I ended up facing backwards, twice, but evidently had better luck than the chap who went before me as I caught him up a few corners from the end hehe

Worse, though, was being waved down by Peter Jebson on the way back in with the words I really didn’t want to hear: “you dropped some oil on the start line.” Arrrrrrrrse.

Really not wanting to ruin anyone’s day by being ‘that’ guy, some slightly more drastic measures were necessary. So I spent an hour, in the rain, checking, cleaning and tightening everything I could get my hands on.



That waterproof romper-suit is definitely the best £25 I’ve ever spent.

After checking everything I could and taking it on a test run around the perimeter roads (eventful in itself, as I’d elected to leave the bodywork off in case anything needed attention and drove straight past a visiting police car!) all seemed ok, so I crossed my fingers and headed out just in time to make run 2.

Did I mention it was wet?



Fortunately lunch brought with it some sunshine, and my previous day’s homework really paid off. Run 3 was a big improvement and run 4 was bone dry, and fortunately everything came together into a run I was very happy with. Well, apart from the crow that I hit at 90mph which led to a brief track closure while one of the unfortunate marshals has to go and, er, scrape up the remains(didn’t lift, mind!).
I didn’t realise it at the time but I’d actually managed to put in a faster run than both of my two main competitors (by which I mean, the two in my class who have beaten me at every other round!), and when the rain inevitably came down later it was clear the positions weren’t going to change. A few of us headed out to have a play in the wet (it’s always the ones without roofs who do this!) but with the weather worsening the team called it a day and we started packing up.

A mixed day in all, but I was very happy with 3rd place in by far the largest group my class has been all year smile





As an added bonus, I also ended up third in class for the season – despite dropping a round.

So, SORN has now kicked in and I need to get my arse in gear with an ever-growing list of things to fix – first and foremost being to swap out the gearbox for my spare and also send the diff off for a rebuild (any recommendations for English diff rebuilds I’m all ears!). Plus servicing, giving the chassis a rub down and re-paint, fitting flared side panels and a rear diffuser, and sorting out some new tyres.

Naturally, the only thing I have achieved thus far is putting some new lights up in the garage (sorry it's not like some of the showroom-esque creations on these hallowed pages!) and giving the ever faithful tow-car a clean hehe





Until next time! byebye

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

243 months

Monday 7th November 2016
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A lot of pictures have sadly gone missing from this thread for some reason.
I don't know if you knew, but you can baffle the sump internally with gates and also weld extensions onto it where space permits, this was done to the works cars which used this engine, it's called a 'big wing sump', home made V Abarth one:







Also the gearboxes have part numbers on them, there were two types, one is stronger than the other.

Do you know the precise spec of your engine btw? You've just given a basic overview. Cam maker/spec, pistons forged or cast, CR, BHP/Tq?

Edited by Evoluzione on Tuesday 8th November 09:16

BenWRXSEi

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Monday 7th November 2016
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Really useful, thanks! I'll work through the pictures when I can and see if I can fix some of the links. I think a brief spell with Imgur is to blame.

The sump I have is the second one you have pictured as far as I can tell (although I've not had it off the car yet to check the internals). I do have a spare, however, which is identical to the second pic and includes the baffles. It's also in better overall condition (i.e. not dented) so I'll probably swap it out over winter.

Any idea how to identify which gearbox I have? Happy to post up a pic when I'm back in the UK.

Engine wise, this is what I know (from the previous owner):

Gas flowed 'Volumex' head with 43.5/36mm valves.
Bogg Brothers R1 Carb conversion, running 160 main jets and Dynojet needles
Piper BP300 high lift 290deg 'Rally' cams
High compression 84.4mm domed forged pistons giving 11:1CR (from Vick Autosport in the US)
Guy Croft uprated head gasket
Guy Croft 12:9 race head bolts
Guy Croft oil pump
New std size big ends
Competition adjustable vernier pulleys
Tuned by Torque Tune, supposedly running circa 170bhp @ 7000rpm but I don't believe any actual power runs were done. I'm taking this figure with plenty of salt.

As I've said in the past it's a bit of a mongrel and I'm sure more could be had with some fine tuning and/or plenty of money (it's still running clockwork ignition for starters). Having read a couple of your threads I'd be very interested to hear you opinion! It was previously owned by a friend of mine who bought it as a fairly questionable eBay purchase, and the engine rebuild was done by a mutual friend of ours after the PO dropped a grub screw through one of the carbs....

The pistons, rings and pulleys were all purchased in the US on a timely road trip, the head was donated by the engine builder from his Lancia Montecarlo and it was all put together in his garage before going for tuning. 3 years later and it's still going hehe

Edited by BenWRXSEi on Monday 7th November 15:58

BenWRXSEi

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Tuesday 8th November 2016
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Pics in post 1 should be fixed now, with any luck smile

(wow, my garage has accumulated a lot of stuff over the last couple of years yikes )

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

243 months

Tuesday 8th November 2016
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Gearboxes aren't really my thing, but apparently the better box has BB in the code for 'big bearing', code should be 131BB1A1005. All the 131 'boxes are relatively strong anyhow, it's only when you turbo them that things start to break.

Mishmash engine specs can often be a disaster (well it depends on who put the list together!), but yours looks ok and obviously works well, the proof of the pudding and all that.....

BenWRXSEi

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Tuesday 8th November 2016
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Really useful - many thanks for that. I'll have a look when I get back smile

seiben

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Sunday 5th February 2017
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Things have been happening...





Should start going back together soon smile

seiben

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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Well, I suppose it’s about that time!

The westy hasn’t turned a wheel since last November (well, until this week. But more on that later) as I’ve been busily beavering away at the long list of jobs needed to bring her back up to scratch. I say beavering away, I’ve actually been busy with such trivialities as work, Christmas, house improvements etc, but I’ve managed to disappear off into the garage here and there. As ever, it’s not yet finished, but hopefully I’ve broken the back of the work needed. It’s almost ready to go sprinting again, at least!

First job (and the one that took the most time) was to get the chassis and various suspension components back up to scratch. It’s all 27 years old now and the original paint isn’t up to much, so my habit of driving it in winter lead to some pretty crusty looking surface rust:



The rear end was definitely going to need some attention – the wishbones were particularly grotty and the diff was also making some unpleasant noises, so apart it all came…





I also discovered at this point that the rear ARB was practically seized!

First step, attack it all with the rust proofer:







Then, once dry and left for a few days to cure, attack with a wire brush drill fitment…





And break out the POR-15:





Not a professional job, certainly, but it does the trick.

Job number two was to fit a pair of flared side panels I purchased recently. This purpose was twofold: partly as an aid to cooling, but mostly to give me better access to the sides of the engine so I could find where that bd oil leak was coming from. Unfortunately it was pretty soon clear that it was from an earlier car and wouldn’t fit without a bit of bodgery, so I turned to plan B.

Break out the Dremel biggrin





I can see things!



Old girl was looking a bit sad at this point.



So, time to start putting a few bits on. I was a bit limited at this point as the diff was off with Tracsport having a rebuild, so I started with a few cosmetics. Firstly, fitting of a new set of front wings (after I botched the existing ones trying to get them so sit straight) and the Flared Side Panels 2.0:



And then I got a shiny thing back!





I’ve finally also been able to confirm that it does indeed have a Quaife ATB diff.

It was a proper bd to refit though, but after much swearing…





It took a bit of fettling to get everything lined up and the speed sensor working again, but we got there. Final touches were to get the wings a slightly better colour, and give it a good service:





(no pics of the servicing, but you all know what oil looks like? All over the garage floor? Yeah, that.) I found out where the oil leak was coming from though – turns out a few of the sump bolts weren’t torqued correctly so some oil was seeping through and dripping off the bottom of the sump.

Finally, new driver’s harness:



Put it all back together…



Out of the garage (leaving behind a bit of mess!)



Et voila!







It had a lovely run out last weekend. Loads of fun! A few little niggles here and there, but nothing major. All I need to do now is a couple of fiddle bits – replace the choke cable, refit the rear ARB – and give it a run on its new rubber:



First sprint is a week on Sunday. Definitely nervous now! hehe

tr7v8

7,192 posts

228 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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Looks like yours is the same spec mine was, SEiW using an English diff in a Westfield case. My chassis was powder coated at the factory & came off in sheets. Mine was to have a Fiat 2L twin cam with an adapter plate with a type 9 bolted up.

seiben

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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Similar, but mine's a narrow chassis and I think originally had a Ford X-flow fitted. It's actually running a Fiat 5-speed gearbox. Always nice to hear of another twink-powered one though! Don't suppose you have any pics? biggrin

Which reminds me, I still need to swap that out for a non-crunchy spare I have...

tr7v8

7,192 posts

228 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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seiben said:
Similar, but mine's a narrow chassis and I think originally had a Ford X-flow fitted. It's actually running a Fiat 5-speed gearbox. Always nice to hear of another twink-powered one though! Don't suppose you have any pics? biggrin

Which reminds me, I still need to swap that out for a non-crunchy spare I have...
Mine was originally a x flow car. I bought it in two pieces as it was crashed on a track day, the rear end was in boxes, the front had been used to build a new Sierra based Westie. It came with the damaged body & a few other bits.. The factory rebuilt the chassis with a new front clip from the foot boxes forward. I started to build it up & had it close to a roller, then damaged my shoulder putting the diff in. My wife wasn't keen so I replaced it with a TR7 V8 meant to be temporary, but we sold the Westie to Phil Lawrence off the 7 bulletin board. He got it running & was then offered a load of money for it so sold it on.
Pics is a good question not sure I have any. The reg was from memory Q827xxx

Furyblade_Lee

4,107 posts

224 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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My neighbour used to have a red Fiat powered Q plate Westfield, wonder if it is the same car? He must have sold it 6 or 7 years ago, lived in Oxted but bought it from Devon? When he arrived home with his missus after an epic journey she hated it, and he said it was awful to drive. I checked it over and found it had 30 psi in the tyres and dampers pretty much on full stiff...... I was horrific to drive, but after 20 minutes sorting it for him he could have kissed me!!


seiben

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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It's great to see more of them coming out of the woodwork! I've had a couple of people mention Fiat powered cars over the last couple of years, but the only one I've ever actually seen was a green and yellow (I think) car that was sold on eBay a couple of years back. I think it had a Lancia-branded engine on twin Webers.

tr7v8 said:
Mine was originally a x flow car. I bought it in two pieces as it was crashed on a track day, the rear end was in boxes, the front had been used to build a new Sierra based Westie. It came with the damaged body & a few other bits.. The factory rebuilt the chassis with a new front clip from the foot boxes forward. I started to build it up & had it close to a roller, then damaged my shoulder putting the diff in. My wife wasn't keen so I replaced it with a TR7 V8 meant to be temporary, but we sold the Westie to Phil Lawrence off the 7 bulletin board. He got it running & was then offered a load of money for it so sold it on.
Pics is a good question not sure I have any. The reg was from memory Q827xxx
Sounds like it was quite an undertaking! I can sympathise with your difficulties getting the diff in. It was a massive pain trying to do it on axle stands and I'm still not entirely sure how it finally slotted into place hehe

Furyblade_Lee said:
My neighbour used to have a red Fiat powered Q plate Westfield, wonder if it is the same car? He must have sold it 6 or 7 years ago, lived in Oxted but bought it from Devon? When he arrived home with his missus after an epic journey she hated it, and he said it was awful to drive. I checked it over and found it had 30 psi in the tyres and dampers pretty much on full stiff...... I was horrific to drive, but after 20 minutes sorting it for him he could have kissed me!!
It's entirely possible I suppose - I really know very little about the car's history before the owner before me. I think he bought it from a typically crap eBay ad somewhere up north. Anything before that (3-4 years ago) is a bit of a mystery. Certainly when I first bought it the shocks were all rock solid and the rear springs were far too high a rate for the car, and a suspension setup by Northampton Motorsport transformed it.

Did the car in question have a windscreen? When I did the dash project last year I found lots of wiring labelled things like 'wipers' and 'washers.' Suffice to say that's all gone now biggrin

Furyblade_Lee

4,107 posts

224 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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Yes it did and had from memory a cream leather interior? I will ask him what his reg no. was

seiben

Original Poster:

2,346 posts

134 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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Furyblade_Lee said:
Yes it did and had from memory a cream leather interior? I will ask him what his reg no. was
Thanks. Definitely no leather in it now! laugh