Yet another rescued E36 328i M Sport project...
Discussion
Well, after talking through numerous issues we were having with getting the car running properly, mentioned in my last post, the guy who did the engine rebuild pointed out that as we had put racing cams in the engine, I wouldn't realise their full potential OR extract all of the available horses out of the engine without fitting a tuned exhaust. I had also been doing some swatting-up about tuned exhausts - harmonic balancing - on Enda's EndTuning website, about the same thing.
http://www.endtuning.com/exhaustsystems/
So, whilst looking at a post on one of the ArseBook BMW groups, I noticed that a chap selling-off some S50 engine bits had a picture of them with a pair off manifolds in the top of the picture. I PM'd him straight away, asking if they might be for sale too. He said yes!
Sold them to me for £280 as well!... Was told to expect to pay anywhere between £500 and £750 for a second hand pair IF you can ever find them....
And here they are on my living room floor...
After talking again with Sam - the engine rebuilder - and telling him that I'd managed to get my hands on a pair of "50 manifolds,he then pointed out a few things to me. 1, that they were a waste of time without the rest of the system. 2, that I would need to get the correct Lambda sensors, which are now hard to get hold of, as neither the 328 or M3 Lambda sensors would work. 3, that the manifolds are a complete b
d to fit, and are easier to fit if you take the engine out of the car!!!.....
So, this then became a sub-project that I was going to put on the back-burner for the next year or so. It's almost impossible to find a complete S50 exhaust system, as many people scrap the mid section with the CATs as you can get £200 for the CATs at the scrap yard...
I decided to look into getting the parts that I'd need to do the exhaust replacement, at some point in the future. I managed to source the proper manifold studs from America for $40, instead of around £320 from BMW - over £11 = VAT EACH!!! I also managed to find the correct NTK Lambda sensors too.
Over the next few weeks, I looked around for S50 exhaust and found loads and loads of back boxes - NO mid-sections... I eventually found two complete systems, both in poor condition, loads of money AND one of the was in Lithuania. The other was in London, but after negotiating with the seller, was then informed that he'd sold it to someone before I could get to go and collect it!!!!
Took me over a year to source a decent original 328 LSD, so reigned myself to 'the long haul' before I'd find a decent complete S50 exhaust system.
fk me sideways! A week later a complete S50 exhaust system off a 3.2 EVO appeared on Ebay. Rang the guy straight away. Turns out it was from his M3, that he'd written-off many years ago, when the car only had around 30k miles on it, and he'd forgotten the exhaust until he'd just cleared his garage out. £320 as well!! So, off I go to collect it...
Couldn't believe my eyes / luck when I saw it.
Look at it! Its like new....
Game on!
I then enquired at my local BMW dealer about the mounting brackets, nuts, bolts etc that I'd need, as the system didn't have any when I collected it.
£200 was quite sobering, but hey, had to be done. And there they all are, scattered over the garage floor, behind the back box...
Out with the old 'pig irons'...
Getting the new Lambda sensor bosses welded into the manifold collectors.
Now, rather than trying to relive the pain, anguish, stress, bleeding fingers, cursing and the almost ABSOLUTE IMPOSSIBILITY of trying to fit the manifolds to the head AND fit the once-use copper nuts - with the engine INSTALLED. I'll take a deep breath, and just put up some pics taken along the way...
Which then allows me to move onto the much less stressful main exhaust system fitting.
NEVER, in the history of man kind, has someone meant it more sincerely 'don't try this at home'...
Also, after driving the car a couple of weeks earlier, we found that both the clutch release bearing and the main input shaft gearbox oil seal had failed, so they both got replaced, while doing all the messing around with sorting out the exhaust. E36 world! Never a dull moment.
I hope you've enjoyed reading this. Would make me feel better after all the pain its caused me...
http://www.endtuning.com/exhaustsystems/
So, whilst looking at a post on one of the ArseBook BMW groups, I noticed that a chap selling-off some S50 engine bits had a picture of them with a pair off manifolds in the top of the picture. I PM'd him straight away, asking if they might be for sale too. He said yes!
Sold them to me for £280 as well!... Was told to expect to pay anywhere between £500 and £750 for a second hand pair IF you can ever find them....And here they are on my living room floor...
After talking again with Sam - the engine rebuilder - and telling him that I'd managed to get my hands on a pair of "50 manifolds,he then pointed out a few things to me. 1, that they were a waste of time without the rest of the system. 2, that I would need to get the correct Lambda sensors, which are now hard to get hold of, as neither the 328 or M3 Lambda sensors would work. 3, that the manifolds are a complete b
d to fit, and are easier to fit if you take the engine out of the car!!!.....So, this then became a sub-project that I was going to put on the back-burner for the next year or so. It's almost impossible to find a complete S50 exhaust system, as many people scrap the mid section with the CATs as you can get £200 for the CATs at the scrap yard...
I decided to look into getting the parts that I'd need to do the exhaust replacement, at some point in the future. I managed to source the proper manifold studs from America for $40, instead of around £320 from BMW - over £11 = VAT EACH!!! I also managed to find the correct NTK Lambda sensors too.
Over the next few weeks, I looked around for S50 exhaust and found loads and loads of back boxes - NO mid-sections... I eventually found two complete systems, both in poor condition, loads of money AND one of the was in Lithuania. The other was in London, but after negotiating with the seller, was then informed that he'd sold it to someone before I could get to go and collect it!!!!
Took me over a year to source a decent original 328 LSD, so reigned myself to 'the long haul' before I'd find a decent complete S50 exhaust system.
f
k me sideways! A week later a complete S50 exhaust system off a 3.2 EVO appeared on Ebay. Rang the guy straight away. Turns out it was from his M3, that he'd written-off many years ago, when the car only had around 30k miles on it, and he'd forgotten the exhaust until he'd just cleared his garage out. £320 as well!! So, off I go to collect it...Couldn't believe my eyes / luck when I saw it.
Look at it! Its like new....
Game on!
I then enquired at my local BMW dealer about the mounting brackets, nuts, bolts etc that I'd need, as the system didn't have any when I collected it.
£200 was quite sobering, but hey, had to be done. And there they all are, scattered over the garage floor, behind the back box...
Out with the old 'pig irons'...
Getting the new Lambda sensor bosses welded into the manifold collectors.
Now, rather than trying to relive the pain, anguish, stress, bleeding fingers, cursing and the almost ABSOLUTE IMPOSSIBILITY of trying to fit the manifolds to the head AND fit the once-use copper nuts - with the engine INSTALLED. I'll take a deep breath, and just put up some pics taken along the way...
Which then allows me to move onto the much less stressful main exhaust system fitting.
NEVER, in the history of man kind, has someone meant it more sincerely 'don't try this at home'...
Also, after driving the car a couple of weeks earlier, we found that both the clutch release bearing and the main input shaft gearbox oil seal had failed, so they both got replaced, while doing all the messing around with sorting out the exhaust. E36 world! Never a dull moment.
I hope you've enjoyed reading this. Would make me feel better after all the pain its caused me...
helix402 said:
Still reading! Glad it’s alive.
It's more than alive mate. Thanks for your continued interest. Want to get it dyno'ed next, to see what it's gonna put out. It's definitely gonna be interesting. Before fitting the S50 3.2 EVO exhaust and manifolds, it was VERY quick.Still got some odd tidy-up jobs left to do, but should have the mechanical side sorted now..
Dave0321 said:
You!
I was watching that m3 mid and back box on ebay!
I kid... I also got some s50 manifolds a few weeks ago too and just waiting to find a decent time to fit them. I intend to fit them to the standard 328i centre section though.
How long did it take you overall to fit the manifolds?
Also, I ordered fresh studs and gaskets from bmw... But, I ordered 24 studs, 24 nuts, downpipe gaskets and s50 head-manifold gaskets for about £100... not sure where your £320 figure comes from.
Did you not remove the steering column for a bit more space?
Why don't the 328i lambda sensors work?
I'll reply properly later. But right now, there's a guy on Arsebook - Will Batchelor - selling S50 cats from e36 EVOs. That'll be the hardest bit to find, so worth getting on to it right away mate....I was watching that m3 mid and back box on ebay!
I kid... I also got some s50 manifolds a few weeks ago too and just waiting to find a decent time to fit them. I intend to fit them to the standard 328i centre section though.
How long did it take you overall to fit the manifolds?
Also, I ordered fresh studs and gaskets from bmw... But, I ordered 24 studs, 24 nuts, downpipe gaskets and s50 head-manifold gaskets for about £100... not sure where your £320 figure comes from.
Did you not remove the steering column for a bit more space?
Why don't the 328i lambda sensors work?
Edited by Dave0321 on Friday 28th September 11:33
Dave0321 said:
You!
I was watching that m3 mid and back box on ebay!
I kid... I also got some s50 manifolds a few weeks ago too and just waiting to find a decent time to fit them. I intend to fit them to the standard 328i centre section though.
How long did it take you overall to fit the manifolds?
Also, I ordered fresh studs and gaskets from bmw... But, I ordered 24 studs, 24 nuts, downpipe gaskets and s50 head-manifold gaskets for about £100... not sure where your £320 figure comes from.
Did you not remove the steering column for a bit more space?
Why don't the 328i lambda sensors work?
Well,I was watching that m3 mid and back box on ebay!
I kid... I also got some s50 manifolds a few weeks ago too and just waiting to find a decent time to fit them. I intend to fit them to the standard 328i centre section though.
How long did it take you overall to fit the manifolds?
Also, I ordered fresh studs and gaskets from bmw... But, I ordered 24 studs, 24 nuts, downpipe gaskets and s50 head-manifold gaskets for about £100... not sure where your £320 figure comes from.
Did you not remove the steering column for a bit more space?
Why don't the 328i lambda sensors work?
Edited by Dave0321 on Friday 28th September 11:33
It eventually took around ten hours to fit the manifolds with the engine in situ. Was an absolute b
d though. You'll need a ramp to fit some of the manifold nuts from underneath and fit some from above in the engine bay.I was quoted around £11 each + VAT for the original M3 studs from BMW. That's why I bought mine from America for around $40 for originals. The individual manifold gaskets I bought direct from BMW as they weren't that expensive.
We removed the steering column for greater access AND had already deleted the air con pump and associated pipework, which would have been a major obstruction.
Not sure of the technical details of why the 328 Lambda sensors had to be changed for the 325 sensors. Apparently they don't read correctly for the new setup. If you do a full stage 2 remap, you can dispense with the Lambda sensors altogether.
Dave0321 said:
Ah OK. I ordered M52 studs, I suppose that's where the difference is.
I managed to pick up a centre and back box last weekend for 300 so that's that sorted... I Just have to set aside a weekend to do it!
For what its worth the bloke I bought the cat and back box from said he had no troubles with the 328i lambdas in his s50 headers.
I was fairly reliably informed that the 328 AND M3 Lambdas don't 'read' correctly for the S50 exhaust on the M52B28 engine, so just went with it. I was also advised to use the S50 studs for the manifolds...I managed to pick up a centre and back box last weekend for 300 so that's that sorted... I Just have to set aside a weekend to do it!
For what its worth the bloke I bought the cat and back box from said he had no troubles with the 328i lambdas in his s50 headers.
Read my previous comments and be warned. It's an absolute b
d to fit the manifolds with the engine in the car. You'll also need the arms and hands of a six year old to reach and tighten the copper nuts...iSore said:
I would imagine supporting the engine on a cross brace and dropping the front x-member would make the job 1000 times easier....?
No! We tried all that. We even got to the point of considering taking the engine out... The main problem is accessing the lower set of nuts on the rear manifold as the twists in the manifold pipes prevent you from being able to use sockets and a wratchet to tighten them...Dave0321 said:
Everything I've read says how much if a bd these are to fit... I'm a bit scared!
Do you have a part number for the sensors you ordered? What's the difference between the 328 and the sensors you have?
Don't be scared. Just gonna be around eight hours of stress and ball ache.d these are to fit... I'm a bit scared!Do you have a part number for the sensors you ordered? What's the difference between the 328 and the sensors you have?
The part number for the correct Lambda sensors is NTK 0486
Dave0321 said:
So besides the pain of fitting, how is it now with the exhaust set up compared to the standard manifolds?
The biggest problem we faced was with over-fuelling due to the rear bank of exhaust manifolds not being quite tightened up enough. This meant that there was a slight blowing from the manifold, which resulted in over-reving between gear changes. The ECU then threw O2 sensor faults on bank 2 and a couple of other erroneous errors, due to the bank 2 O2 sensor not getting the balanced amount of exhaust gases and un-burnt fuel readings with bank 1. Once we 'clicked' what was going on, and tightened the offending nuts, the car then ran properly. With the S50B30 exhaust manifolds, the S50B32 exhaust system and the racing cams, the car has been totally transformed. "Goes like stink" is a total understatement. 
Hello again. Well, after running the car for a number of weekends now, it at last seems to be happy and is a real pleasure. Have only experienced a couple of minor problems that had to be resolved, including having to replace the main engine fan clutch - an OEM 'Sachs' version from Euro Car Parts for £60, instead of around £160 for the same from BMW....
The other issue was having to re-tighten the rear S50 exhaust manifold as it was slightly blowing and was affecting the performance....
However, yesterday I was driving down the motorway when I started to get a low-end grumble from the front of the car. Took it to the garage to get it checked out and.... The front passenger side wheel bearing had started to fail. So, went to Euro Car Parts this morning and bought two new OEM FAG front wheel bearing kits for just under £170, instead of nearly £360 from BMW. Probably another £60 or so to fit...
Gonna get the car four wheel tracked next week for around £60...
The other issue was having to re-tighten the rear S50 exhaust manifold as it was slightly blowing and was affecting the performance....
However, yesterday I was driving down the motorway when I started to get a low-end grumble from the front of the car. Took it to the garage to get it checked out and.... The front passenger side wheel bearing had started to fail. So, went to Euro Car Parts this morning and bought two new OEM FAG front wheel bearing kits for just under £170, instead of nearly £360 from BMW. Probably another £60 or so to fit...
Gonna get the car four wheel tracked next week for around £60...
Edited by RickBristol on Wednesday 5th December 21:15
Dave0321 said:
It's a never ending story!
I decided to have a go at fitting the S50 manifolds after reading your posts about it... and you weren't kidding. What a nightmare. I wish it only too me 8 hours like you said... took me 3 days! I had clearance issues with the crank case AND the gearbox! Nightmare!
Have you heard the E36 song? "Its got 99 problems..." I decided to have a go at fitting the S50 manifolds after reading your posts about it... and you weren't kidding. What a nightmare. I wish it only too me 8 hours like you said... took me 3 days! I had clearance issues with the crank case AND the gearbox! Nightmare!
Not sure that I should be sharing this on here but....
Had a little 'indiscretion' with another vehicle a couple of weeks back. Basically, a young and nervous young lady that was driving in front of me decided to hit the anchors full-on, as we where approaching a roundabout doing around 10 mph, just as I looked over to check the time on my stereo...
Basically, as my car is lowered by 6 cm when I hit her car, her bumper hit above mine and I caught to impact in my 'soft spot', bonnet, lights, nose cone etc.... Uffffffff!
Luckily, I know of a guy up in Shropshire - Paul Glover, on Facebook, who regularly breaks E36 M3s. Gave him a call and he had all the bits I needed to sort the car out.
So off to the car repair garage to get sorted...
Had a little 'indiscretion' with another vehicle a couple of weeks back. Basically, a young and nervous young lady that was driving in front of me decided to hit the anchors full-on, as we where approaching a roundabout doing around 10 mph, just as I looked over to check the time on my stereo...
Basically, as my car is lowered by 6 cm when I hit her car, her bumper hit above mine and I caught to impact in my 'soft spot', bonnet, lights, nose cone etc.... Uffffffff!
Luckily, I know of a guy up in Shropshire - Paul Glover, on Facebook, who regularly breaks E36 M3s. Gave him a call and he had all the bits I needed to sort the car out.
So off to the car repair garage to get sorted...
OK. I sent the car over to the repair garage to get the car sorted. All the panels and parts that I bought were in good, rust-free and serviceable condition. The guys at the garage stripped off the damaged parts and checked the car to be sure that there wasn't going to be any hidden nasty surprises and gave it the all clear. They then started putting the car back together, after first painting the panels.
Just love those big E46 330 drilled and grooved brakes...
As you can see from the picture below, the panels came from various cars and were various colours...
The replacement driver's side headlamp fitted
One of the damaged parts was the radiator
I managed to get a brand new replacement from Arrow Radiators in Bristol for...... £58 all in!
And fitted..
And a couple of shots of the car being finished
The nose panel came with it's original kidney grill, both in excellent condition
The bonnet came with it's original sound deadening lining and was in much better condition than my original
Just waiting on a couple of parts to come from BMW in Germany and the car will be back on the road...
Just love those big E46 330 drilled and grooved brakes...
As you can see from the picture below, the panels came from various cars and were various colours...
The replacement driver's side headlamp fitted
One of the damaged parts was the radiator
I managed to get a brand new replacement from Arrow Radiators in Bristol for...... £58 all in!
And fitted..
And a couple of shots of the car being finished
The nose panel came with it's original kidney grill, both in excellent condition
The bonnet came with it's original sound deadening lining and was in much better condition than my original
Just waiting on a couple of parts to come from BMW in Germany and the car will be back on the road...
Well, after getting the car sorted after my accident. I then took it for it's MOT. I was a bit worried about it the emissions as the car needs to be live mapped now and is running REALLY rich - around 17 MGP! But, passed with flying colours. Happy days... 
So, I decided to give it a present and managed to source a mint condition replacement steering wheel - as the leather and air bag cover were shagged and really scratched...
Mr Paul Glover came up trumps again and sole me this for £140, including postage.
As you can see, even the original red, purple and blue M stitching is in perfect condition - on my original the stitching was black...
I also took the car to an auto electrician to get the central locking, ABS light fault, fog lights and seat belt warning lights sorted too. However, the boot lock still wouldn't lock with the central locking as the actuator was found to be fked, So, once again, Mr Glover came to the rescue with a replacement for £20 posted.
Next... After keeping my eyes peeled for the last couple of years or so, I managed to come across a set of 5 BBS wheels, 3 RC041s AND a pair of - rare as rocking horse st - RC042s. Complete with all waffle plates, centre nuts/caps AND decent matching Toyo Proxies tyres for £500. They turned up today and am really pleased with their condition. Might need to get the outer rims polished and lacquered though.
RC042s...
What a result! Was seriously starting to fall out of love with the car recently...
So, I decided to give it a present and managed to source a mint condition replacement steering wheel - as the leather and air bag cover were shagged and really scratched...
Mr Paul Glover came up trumps again and sole me this for £140, including postage.
As you can see, even the original red, purple and blue M stitching is in perfect condition - on my original the stitching was black...
I also took the car to an auto electrician to get the central locking, ABS light fault, fog lights and seat belt warning lights sorted too. However, the boot lock still wouldn't lock with the central locking as the actuator was found to be f
ked, So, once again, Mr Glover came to the rescue with a replacement for £20 posted.Next... After keeping my eyes peeled for the last couple of years or so, I managed to come across a set of 5 BBS wheels, 3 RC041s AND a pair of - rare as rocking horse s
t - RC042s. Complete with all waffle plates, centre nuts/caps AND decent matching Toyo Proxies tyres for £500. They turned up today and am really pleased with their condition. Might need to get the outer rims polished and lacquered though.RC042s...
What a result! Was seriously starting to fall out of love with the car recently...
I took my new set of wheels off to Prestige Wheels in Bristol to get them refurbished as, although they had been painted silver and COULD have gone straight onto the car, I wanted to do them, and the car, justice. The guys there have had them for the last week and have stripped, acid dipped, painted and lacquered them. I am very pleased with the outcome and can't wait to get them on the car.
They sorted the barrels, centres, waffle plates and even the centre waffle plate retaining nuts.
I'll add some more pictures of them, once they're on the car. Well pleased...
They sorted the barrels, centres, waffle plates and even the centre waffle plate retaining nuts.
I'll add some more pictures of them, once they're on the car. Well pleased...
After getting the new wheels refurbished, I decided to fit a fairly discrete star-drive screw into each waffle plate. This was to avoid them getting lost if the centre nut worked loose AND to prevent any chancer scallys from nicking them.
I also managed to buy the original centre nut tightening tool recently.
The wheels really set the car off magnificently.
This morning, the fked key issue reared its ugly little head again!!!
Basically, I found that I had to repeatedly re-programme the key as it kept loosing it's mapping to the car. However, the last time this happened, the usual trick for re-programming the key wouldn't work and I had to take it to an auto electrician to get it to work properly again.
So when it happened this morning, I happened to be near a Timpsons key cutters in Bristol. This time, the red light on the key fob would not go out and the unlock button wouldn't work. So I went in and asked the guy if he could take the battery out and see if he could get it to work again. He took one look at it and said "the button is fked!". He then produced a replacement and said "would you like a replacement key fob body?". I couldn't believe what he had...
It's a BMW exact replacement for the key fob the car originally came with. AND, he went on to say that to put my ship in the new fob, a new battery and the key cutting would cost me the princely sum of £30. BMW wanted well over a hundred quid for a replacement. Bargain of the week!
I also managed to buy the original centre nut tightening tool recently.
The wheels really set the car off magnificently.
This morning, the f
ked key issue reared its ugly little head again!!!Basically, I found that I had to repeatedly re-programme the key as it kept loosing it's mapping to the car. However, the last time this happened, the usual trick for re-programming the key wouldn't work and I had to take it to an auto electrician to get it to work properly again.
So when it happened this morning, I happened to be near a Timpsons key cutters in Bristol. This time, the red light on the key fob would not go out and the unlock button wouldn't work. So I went in and asked the guy if he could take the battery out and see if he could get it to work again. He took one look at it and said "the button is f
ked!". He then produced a replacement and said "would you like a replacement key fob body?". I couldn't believe what he had...It's a BMW exact replacement for the key fob the car originally came with. AND, he went on to say that to put my ship in the new fob, a new battery and the key cutting would cost me the princely sum of £30. BMW wanted well over a hundred quid for a replacement. Bargain of the week!
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