BMW E36 328i Saloon Track Car Project!

[mattcambs]

danjama said:

I don't think you were driving your MR2 how it's supposed to be driven, Matt

Trust me the limits were tested

They are great cars, just lack the balance and feedback you get from the Roadster. Boxster is better balanced too. In bang for buck terms, they're pretty hard to beat though

[g3org3y]

Congrats

Sorry to hear of the rust issues. I suppose that's the problem with travelling so far to view a car - often you are forced to make compromises. Hopefully can all be sorted.

Best of luck with the project.

[danjama]

mattcambs said:

Trust me the limits were tested

They are great cars, just lack the balance and feedback you get from the Roadster. Boxster is better balanced too. In bang for buck terms, they're pretty hard to beat though

Yes, very true actually. Fair points The balance can definitely be 'testing'. Feedback is too varied I find, i've changed wheels and tyre combos often enough and I think it's almost completely dependent on them.

[Dannbodge]

Looks great!

On the short shifter. I got a Z3m one for my 328i, makes the throws about 25% shorter and pretty notchy.
I got a weighted gear knob on mine which makes them 10000% better than stock.

It also has a satisfying metal clink when shifting (Like open gate ferraris etc have)

[TroubledSoul]

Dannbodge said:

Looks great!

On the short shifter. I got a Z3m one for my 328i, makes the throws about 25% shorter and pretty notchy.
I got a weighted gear knob on mine which makes them 10000% better than stock.

It also has a satisfying metal clink when shifting (Like open gate ferraris etc have)

How did you bend the shifter? Understeer.com says that you need to but I don't really have the facilities.

[TroubledSoul]

Here's my lovely boot floor:





I've found a guy breaking a few cars, including an M3 EVO. He agreed to sell me a boot floor:



Oh and I might have bought the Evo rear axle too....

[TroubledSoul]

Z3 steering rack arrived yesterday!



I am hoping to go and see a top body shop later today to get a rough quote on the welding in of the replacement boot floor. After this flurry, things may go slightly dark for a while but I will be updating as I fit certain bits.

Oh and because the suspension is shafted on this, I have got a set of M3 shocks, springs and anti roll bars for the princely sum of £25 as a stop gap to allow me to move it about and test things without it being like a tilt train around the corners! That's assuming the stuff is in good working order, but at £25 I figured it was worth a punt. It will definitely get coilovers as soon as finances permit.

[Sammo123]

Have a read here to see which shifter will work best with yours

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f92/e36-z3-z3m...

[Humour]

TroubledSoul said:

Send me the details and I'll gladly have a look. I can actually buy BMW the parts with staff discount now as I have a friend who works for them. The problem with the Z3 setup is that I don't have the facility for bending the shifter or the selector rod which it appears you have to do.

The suspension exchange is unfortunately a no go, but I meant PSS, not PSS9.

What did you do with the Z3 rack for the bracket that they say is needed to attach a pipe to?

The advert has now expired, but I'm sure the seller can be contacted about it, given the type of parts he/she sells. Anyway Fleabay It looks quid a different arrangement on the pivot point, with what looks like a massive cap which if it is fixable onto the chassis will provide a solid point for the shifter which will avoid the shifter wandering around during hard cornering.

I don't know which of the Z3 gear sticks you are referring to, but in all the reading I have done, nobody has ever mentioned about bending the stick. There is a thread somewhere that shows pictures of the E36 328 stick vs all Z3 variants and tbh there isn't a significant enough difference in stick angles to suggest it will need bending. News to me tbh mate. I'm just going to go with the Z3M shifter new from a stealer and see how she feels. If it needs bending, a vice and some force will sort it in no time lol.

Re; the steering rack, there is a very slight offset for a mounting bracket on the right hand side of the rack at the front, this allows the PAS Radiator/cooling pipes to attached to the rack. Can be done with a decent cable tie tbh, we just cut a 60mm x 20mm x 2mm piece of aluminium, drilled two holes in it and attached one to the rack and the other to the bracket with some M5/M6 bolt and nut. 10 minute job max. If I can find the pic I took on my phone I'll post it up.

Bad news on the rust/floor I learned the same lesson the hard way once.

Hum

P.S. Just noticed Sammo123 has provided on of the useful links above Below is the list of parts and prices from other similar helpful threads that I have collected. Note that included are all bushes and circlips, not just the gearstick side, since for a track car you want as much refreshed and as tight as possible

Z3 M - Shift Lever – 25117527254 x1

Bearing – 25111220600 x1

Plastic Washer - 25111220439 x6

Clip - 25117571899 x4

Rubber boot – 25111221700 x1

Bush bearing – 25117507695 x1

Bearing bolt – 25111221849 x1

This is for Z3M shifter onto a 6pot engine.

Indicative prices from BMW Hereford: (couple of years ago I think)

254 £42.42
600 £7.09
439 £4.70
899 £3.31
700 £18.22
695 £1.93
849 £4.06

I think the rubber boot will not apply to a track car, so that's 18 quid less. If you get this priced up through your friend, it might be worth seeing if they can supply 2~5 sets, as I want one and there are another couple of E36 track builds going at the moment, where some are yet to get the short shifter mod done, so there may be interest in a group buy, especially if BMW discounts are on the table

Edited by Humour on Wednesday 28th January 17:54

Edited by Humour on Wednesday 28th January 17:57

[f0xy]

The Z3M shifter will feel like it sits too far forward when in 1st/3rd/5th when just put onto the car, some might like it and others dont. I adjusted the angle of mine slightly to make it more like the original item, was easy enough in a vice.

The other problem with it is, depending on what propshaft/gearbox you are on, the bottom of the shifter will sometimes touch the propshaft when in the middle position. I ended up dropping the gearbox 2-3mm so it has sufficient clearance.

[TroubledSoul]

Well I went to pick up my new gear knob earlier, as one which doesn't come off would be a great upgrade! I decided to order the Z3M shifter and a couple of circlips as per the link posted above. That link stated that it should work without having to bend it etc. so I hope it does, else I'll be pretty frustrated.

I did wonder about buying those other bits but it sounded like I wouldn't need to refresh them from that link. I have however ordered a couple of bits from the US, so have delrin pedal bushes coming and a pair of delrin shift bushes. I also already ordered the main round bearing that goes on the shifter. I'll have a think about those other bits.

[Humour]

Useful feedback and advice from Foxy......he knows his onions. Duly noted.

OP if you are that bothered about the angle of the stick, just compare with the original after removal and bend it like Beckham to match. Didn't think much of the Polish version then?

Hum

[TroubledSoul]

f0xy said:

The Z3M shifter will feel like it sits too far forward when in 1st/3rd/5th when just put onto the car, some might like it and others dont. I adjusted the angle of mine slightly to make it more like the original item, was easy enough in a vice.

The other problem with it is, depending on what propshaft/gearbox you are on, the bottom of the shifter will sometimes touch the propshaft when in the middle position. I ended up dropping the gearbox 2-3mm so it has sufficient clearance.

I was worried about the prospect of it touching the propshaft. Ultimately it will be running the 328 box, M3 propshaft and Evo diff. I was hoping the Z3M item wouldn't need bending.

Understeer.com also sell a bent selector rod. Would I be better off buying that?

[f0xy]

The bend is above the pivot point, so would not affect how close it comes to the prop, that is just simply down to the length of the lower part (and what gives you the shorter shift as its moving further).

You should be OK with the combo you are using - mine was fine, never heard it catch, until I swapped gearboxes and fitted new gearbox mounts (I'm guessing the old ones had sagged slightly) and then it started catching every so often. I simply spaced the gearbox away from the chassis with a thin piece of steel on each side between the mount and body.

[TroubledSoul]

Thanks F0xy, maybe I need to invest in some kind of bench and a vice.... I don't really want it to feel too far forward as that would ruin it for me.

I am hoping to speak to someone about welding a boot floor in tomorrow morning. Hopefully that won't bee too bad. I also need to decide which bushes to buy. I see that Powerflex are now doing their black ones for track use. There are so many brands doing these things now though and many of them much cheaper than Powerflex.

Might be the case that the diff carrier mounts are better off with the regular purple bushes (or their equivalent) purely from the POV of it being allowed a small amount of flex with those?

[Sammo123]

TroubledSoul said:

Thanks F0xy, maybe I need to invest in some kind of bench and a vice.... I don't really want it to feel too far forward as that would ruin it for me.

I am hoping to speak to someone about welding a boot floor in tomorrow morning. Hopefully that won't bee too bad. I also need to decide which bushes to buy. I see that Powerflex are now doing their black ones for track use. There are so many brands doing these things now though and many of them much cheaper than Powerflex.

Might be the case that the diff carrier mounts are better off with the regular purple bushes (or their equivalent) purely from the POV of it being allowed a small amount of flex with those?

If you can find yourself a Euro Car Parts discount code then order the Powerflex bushes through them!

[TroubledSoul]

Sammo123 said:

If you can find yourself a Euro Car Parts discount code then order the Powerflex bushes through them!

Cheers I didn't realise they sold them.

[TroubledSoul]

Unfortunately I cannot find the rear diff carrier bushes on ECP.

I am actually considering buying a set of cheapo Hot Tuning coilovers. I know, I know. Buy cheap, buy twice etc. but that's actually OK by me if it means I can put something firmer on, save some money right now to put towards the boot and floor repairs and actually have some form of handling for this year's track days. Next year I'd replace them with something more suited to proper racing.

Need to give this some thought. There are a few things I will probably buy cheaper versions of and then replace once I get more serious, like buckets that are out of date and that sort of thing.

Makes sense to me right now to get the car to a useable track spec as cheaply as I can and then upgrade to proper stuff as and when needed/wanted. It's a long term thing after all.

[Dannbodge]

TroubledSoul said:

How did you bend the shifter? Understeer.com says that you need to but I don't really have the facilities.

Put it in a vice with two large drills either side and hit it with a rubber mallet.

It's surprisingly soft and east to bend.

I also drilled through the outer casing, through the central shaft and put some hard steel pins through becasue the only thing holding the shaft to the gearknob normally is rubber.

[TroubledSoul]

Dannbodge said:

Put it in a vice with two large drills either side and hit it with a rubber mallet.

It's surprisingly soft and east to bend.

I also drilled through the outer casing, through the central shaft and put some hard steel pins through becasue the only thing holding the shaft to the gearknob normally is rubber.

Hmm I'll see what I can come up with. Will it 100% need bending? I actually thought (forgotten exactly what I read now) that it just was the 1.9 shifter that needed bending.