Spartan Mercedes 190 (w201)
Discussion
Levin said:
I must admit, I'm very surprised they still make viable dailies, but my thinking may be soured by the late 1990s cars and their predilection for rust.
I'm always slightly perplexed by this approach (said gently and without internet contention). After all, they made perfectly viable daily drivers in 1990, so why not in 2017? The nature of such use has not changed: if anything, people use cars less intensely now than they did then. The only reason they might not make reliable dailies is want of repair: but that is in your hands. As cars, however, I'd suggest that Mercedes models from the w123 onwards were fully matured. In many ways, they are better-suited to daily driving than a lot of moderns: more comfortable ride and narrower body, to name but two characteristics. As cars, however, I'd suggest that Mercedes models from the w123 onwards were fully matured. In many ways, they are better-suited to daily driving than a lot of moderns: more comfortable ride and narrower body, to name but two characteristics.
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Sorry to wade in on the slightly off topic lilt here, but with less so called safety features (crash structure) you can see out of 70's / 90', car's with out stoopid blind spots. I've lost cars in the pillars before now on roundabouts and junctions.
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Sorry to wade in on the slightly off topic lilt here, but with less so called safety features (crash structure) you can see out of 70's / 90', car's with out stoopid blind spots. I've lost cars in the pillars before now on roundabouts and junctions.
sprouting said:
Sorry to wade in on the slightly off topic lilt here, but with less so called safety features (crash structure) you can see out of 70's / 90', car's with out stoopid blind spots. I've lost cars in the pillars before now on roundabouts and junctions.
Upright screen and slim pillars; an easily overlooked benefit of 1990's & earlier cars.
Great to see the 190 is still providing sterling service R129. Is it coming to York next month?
The 190 is coming to York next month. The 124 needs a head gasket and the 129 is not very barge so only last night I sought and miraculously obtained permission to take the Spartan.
I agree about visibility. Nor is there much safety deficit from the 201/124 onwards. By fully matured, I meant this: the car always works as a car without wants of development and it has almost all modern safety attributes (CAD body shell, ABS brakes, multi-link rear axle, airbags, side impact protection: the only big development since has been ESP). The EuroNCAP crash test is Daimler Benz's crash test régime as it applied to the w124: it was taken wholesale.
I agree about visibility. Nor is there much safety deficit from the 201/124 onwards. By fully matured, I meant this: the car always works as a car without wants of development and it has almost all modern safety attributes (CAD body shell, ABS brakes, multi-link rear axle, airbags, side impact protection: the only big development since has been ESP). The EuroNCAP crash test is Daimler Benz's crash test régime as it applied to the w124: it was taken wholesale.
r129sl said:
I'm always slightly perplexed by this approach (said gently and without internet contention). After all, they made perfectly viable daily drivers in 1990, so why not in 2017? The nature of such use has not changed: if anything, people use cars less intensely now than they did then. The only reason they might not make reliable dailies is want of repair: but that is in your hands. As cars, however, I'd suggest that Mercedes models from the w123 onwards were fully matured. In many ways, they are better-suited to daily driving than a lot of moderns: more comfortable ride and narrower body, to name but two characteristics.
No offence taken! I saw a lot of 190s still in daily use in Germany, so they probably are perfectly viable dailies, but I find myself concerned with the availability of parts and any potential for rust being exacerbated by age. Parts mightn't be too much of a problem for the 190 depending on if you can buy them from Mercedes or if you have to rely on cars being broken. Perhaps a symptom of living in Northern Ireland but I haven't seen many on the road in years.I hope this sheds some light on my thinking, for you've definitely given me something to think about as well.
Rust is the main problem. The 190 is better than most, better than the 124 and certainly the later Merc fare. Don't buy a rusty one! I live at the beach and ours seems OK. I've had it all treated for long term health. Rust is pretty cheap and easy to deal with if you catch it early.
A lot of interior trim is no longer available but everything else is available either from the dealer or on the after market. Consumable parts—filters, pads, suspension bits—are very cheap, even at the dealer. Earlier in the thread you'll see me buying things like a new key, coded to the car's locks, for about £30 or an ignition barrel, again matching the existing locks, for about £100, all coming from Germany within a few days. The parts supply is really good.
I've said this before: you can run an old car as a daily driver but you have to accept that it will need repair more frequently than a modern and you have to enjoy the business of diagnosing and fixing faults. Moderns aren't perfect and they do seem to break down but it is almost always attributable to some low resistance electrical fault which mere mortals like us have no chance of finding.
A lot of interior trim is no longer available but everything else is available either from the dealer or on the after market. Consumable parts—filters, pads, suspension bits—are very cheap, even at the dealer. Earlier in the thread you'll see me buying things like a new key, coded to the car's locks, for about £30 or an ignition barrel, again matching the existing locks, for about £100, all coming from Germany within a few days. The parts supply is really good.
I've said this before: you can run an old car as a daily driver but you have to accept that it will need repair more frequently than a modern and you have to enjoy the business of diagnosing and fixing faults. Moderns aren't perfect and they do seem to break down but it is almost always attributable to some low resistance electrical fault which mere mortals like us have no chance of finding.
Edited by r129sl on Thursday 27th April 20:40
r129sl said:
Rust is the main problem. The 190 is better than most, better than the 124 and certainly the later Merc fare. Don't buy a rusty one! I live at the beach and ours seems OK. I've had it all treated for long term health. Rust is pretty cheap and easy to deal with if you catch it early.
A lot of interior trim is no longer available but everything else is available either from the dealer or on the after market. Consumable parts—filters, pads, suspension bits—are very cheap, even at the dealer. Earlier in the thread you'll see me buying things like a new key, coded to the car's locks, for about £30 or an ignition barrel, again matching the existing locks, for about £100, all coming from Germany within a few days. The parts supply is really good.
I've said this before: you can run an old car as a daily driver but you have to accept that it will need repair more frequently than a modern and you have to enjoy the business of diagnosing and fixing faults. Moderns aren't perfect and they do seem to break down but it is almost always attributable to some low resistance electrical fault which mere mortals like us have no chance of finding.
You know, I may never get around to buying one, but if I ever do I'll keep it in mind that they fare quite well compared to some other cars. My only first hand experience is with a Ford Sierra (an '80s Ford - of course), where bumpers, panels, trim and most other bits are unobtainium. Many thanks for your time and wisdom on the matter!A lot of interior trim is no longer available but everything else is available either from the dealer or on the after market. Consumable parts—filters, pads, suspension bits—are very cheap, even at the dealer. Earlier in the thread you'll see me buying things like a new key, coded to the car's locks, for about £30 or an ignition barrel, again matching the existing locks, for about £100, all coming from Germany within a few days. The parts supply is really good.
I've said this before: you can run an old car as a daily driver but you have to accept that it will need repair more frequently than a modern and you have to enjoy the business of diagnosing and fixing faults. Moderns aren't perfect and they do seem to break down but it is almost always attributable to some low resistance electrical fault which mere mortals like us have no chance of finding.
Edited by r129sl on Thursday 27th April 20:40
Levin said:
No offence taken! I saw a lot of 190s still in daily use in Germany, so they probably are perfectly viable dailies, but I find myself concerned with the availability of parts and any potential for rust being exacerbated by age. Parts mightn't be too much of a problem for the 190 depending on if you can buy them from Mercedes or if you have to rely on cars being broken. Perhaps a symptom of living in Northern Ireland but I haven't seen many on the road in years.
I hope this sheds some light on my thinking, for you've definitely given me something to think about as well.
Where abouts are you? Your more than welcome to come take a look round mine at any stage, I'm in Moira. Agree with all thats said, a good one is a dream and mine puts the wifes modern focus to shame in many areas. Absolutely superb things. I hope this sheds some light on my thinking, for you've definitely given me something to think about as well.
I'm on the hunt for a 500e/e500 at the minute, thats a proper minefield.
irish boy said:
Levin said:
No offence taken! I saw a lot of 190s still in daily use in Germany, so they probably are perfectly viable dailies, but I find myself concerned with the availability of parts and any potential for rust being exacerbated by age. Parts mightn't be too much of a problem for the 190 depending on if you can buy them from Mercedes or if you have to rely on cars being broken. Perhaps a symptom of living in Northern Ireland but I haven't seen many on the road in years.
I hope this sheds some light on my thinking, for you've definitely given me something to think about as well.
Where abouts are you? Your more than welcome to come take a look round mine at any stage, I'm in Moira. Agree with all thats said, a good one is a dream and mine puts the wifes modern focus to shame in many areas. Absolutely superb things. I hope this sheds some light on my thinking, for you've definitely given me something to think about as well.
I'm on the hunt for a 500e/e500 at the minute, thats a proper minefield.
I was thinking about the above comments on my way to work this morning, especially the comment about why wouldn't a 90s car make a suitable daily, as it has all modern crash features such as airbags.
It got me wondering about the life span of airbags, and if they ever need replacing? I see on some cars it states 10 years, but I've never heard of anyone replacing them. Would you be confident of a 25 year old airbag firing? I wonder about my 13 year old one sometimes...
It got me wondering about the life span of airbags, and if they ever need replacing? I see on some cars it states 10 years, but I've never heard of anyone replacing them. Would you be confident of a 25 year old airbag firing? I wonder about my 13 year old one sometimes...
There was a thing about this a few years ago. For the earliest airbags, Mercedes initially recommended replacement after 15 years. I think there is even a sticker to that effect in my 1993 w124 or maybe it was in its 1992 predecessor. For most cars since the late-1980s, however, Mercedes and others now state that the airbag will last the life of the vehicle, whatever that means. The SMMT advises that all airbags last the life of the car. It is quite a remarkable and resilient piece of technology and it tickles me that almost all airbags die a death never having seen the light of day.
mccrackenj said:
irish boy said:
Where abouts are you? Your more than welcome to come take a look round mine at any stage, I'm in Moira. Agree with all thats said, a good one is a dream and mine puts the wifes modern focus to shame in many areas. Absolutely superb things.
I'm on the hunt for a 500e/e500 at the minute, thats a proper minefield.
Seconded. I'm in east Belfast. Don't currently have a 190 but have a W124 and you're more than welcome to poke about and have a drive.I'm on the hunt for a 500e/e500 at the minute, thats a proper minefield.
Levin said:
mccrackenj said:
irish boy said:
Where abouts are you? Your more than welcome to come take a look round mine at any stage, I'm in Moira. Agree with all thats said, a good one is a dream and mine puts the wifes modern focus to shame in many areas. Absolutely superb things.
I'm on the hunt for a 500e/e500 at the minute, thats a proper minefield.
Seconded. I'm in east Belfast. Don't currently have a 190 but have a W124 and you're more than welcome to poke about and have a drive.I'm on the hunt for a 500e/e500 at the minute, thats a proper minefield.
I took the 190 on its first long distance trip this weekend. Heretofore, it has never been much further than Newcastle, something my six year old pointed out as we sailed past Durham en route for sunny Sheffield. It surprised me by how good it is at fast motorway speeds. I started out at 70, soon crept up to 80 and by Darlo was keeping it steady at 95, around about 4,500rpm. The following day we left the Loser Conference (hardcore losers only this time: a northern venue sorts the wheat from the chaff) in York at about 3pm and were 109 miles away in Mitford in Northumberland by 4.40pm, a similar rate of progress being maintained. While I did not take it much above the ton, it is very sweet (if a little droning) at that kind of speed. Best of all, it turned in 31mpg over 400 fast miles.
For the cheapest, simplest car (and the least powerful petrol engine) in Mercedes' 1990 range, it is quite an impressively long-legged machine. I definitely would not hesitate to use one for long distance work again. The 2.6litre six must be superb.
For the cheapest, simplest car (and the least powerful petrol engine) in Mercedes' 1990 range, it is quite an impressively long-legged machine. I definitely would not hesitate to use one for long distance work again. The 2.6litre six must be superb.
My wife reported a slightly alarming experience upon her return from ASDA this evening. She reported hearing a loud bang from her left as she drove along; and she had found a chip on the left door pillar. Looking at the damage, I suspect the car was shot at with a .22 air rifle. Just silly rough kids, of course (I have an alibi and I couldn't afford a hitman), but a few inches either way and the window would have been out and that would have been a very nasty fright. Bit off that it's at head height, too. There's a bit of a dimple, irritatingly, but I'm sure the Man can sort it.
It could be worse. She could have been shopping at the Lidl.
It could be worse. She could have been shopping at the Lidl.
Edited by r129sl on Tuesday 9th May 21:57
Big service at Mercedes-Benz of Newcastle today. Mileage is 153,262. Oil and filter, transmission fluid and filter, air filter, coolant, brake fluid, spark plugs. It's two years and 32,000miles since most of this stuff was last done (oil and filter excepted, of course). They turned it round in the day for £407 including VAT which is not all bad. If you deal with the right people there, it is a very good garage. I find the parts departments very helpful (and generous with the discounts); Claire Allen always takes my booking and Paul Smith (who has been there since these cars were new) works on the car.
Edited by r129sl on Monday 22 May 17:55
r129sl said:
It's two years and 32,000miles since most of this stuff was last done
Out of interest, what's your total annual mileage across all of your fleet?You seem to do a lot of miles. I have no idea how you have the time to do so many miles, keep all of your old Benzes in tip-top condition, AND take pretty photos for the Readers Cars threads!
We do about 55,000miles across the three cars.
Two long commutes: mine is about 60miles a day, Mrs R's is 50. Often I'll nip out on some mission to the garage or Euro Car Parts or somewhere, adding another 10 miles. Most Sunday nights I take all three cars to the petrol station to fill them in turn. That's an extra 45 miles a week. It adds up.
I travel a lot for work and tend to drive because (1) it is cheaper, faster and more reliable than the train, (2) I enjoy it and (3) I tend to carry a lot of stuff.
We drive on holidays. We drive to see relatives in Sheffield and Cheshire a fair bit. And in the north east, places are further apart and driving is more fun.
We like driving!
Two long commutes: mine is about 60miles a day, Mrs R's is 50. Often I'll nip out on some mission to the garage or Euro Car Parts or somewhere, adding another 10 miles. Most Sunday nights I take all three cars to the petrol station to fill them in turn. That's an extra 45 miles a week. It adds up.
I travel a lot for work and tend to drive because (1) it is cheaper, faster and more reliable than the train, (2) I enjoy it and (3) I tend to carry a lot of stuff.
We drive on holidays. We drive to see relatives in Sheffield and Cheshire a fair bit. And in the north east, places are further apart and driving is more fun.
We like driving!
Edited by r129sl on Monday 22 May 22:04
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