1999 Saab 9-3 Viggen Turbo Convertible
Discussion
1999 Saab 9-3 Viggen 2.3 Turbo Convertible
There have been a couple of threads on PH where I’ve meant to post a reply but not got around to it; one would be the ‘Council’ thread where my Shogun would fit right in; another was a thread about how the garage/mechanic you use and have a good relationship with, influences your choice of car.
Apart from an long dormant interest in the 1980’s T16 Saab 900 I’d not seriously considered a Saab prior to a couple of years ago; but, short of a long distance car for a family holiday to Scotland a couple of years ago, Scott – the mechanic I’ve used since the early noughties – had an early 9-5 Aero which he’d taken in from an ex-Saab main dealer. Scott runs a lovely, much improved, 9-5 and has his own 900 8-value Turbo waiting for some tender loving care, so he knows the faults and strengths of the brand and has deep respect for it.
The Aero had done nearly a quarter of a million miles, to which I’ve added nearly another twenty thousand. There is an old MG advertising slogan “Safety Fast” which is completely apt for the 9-5, to which you could add ‘value’. These are astonishingly good value cars and whenever anyone starts a thread asking for a family, long distance, fast, economical car for less than a few thousand pounds the correct answer is one of these.
The bright amongst you would consider that it would be far more sensible just to replace the Aero and the BBR with a single all-purpose car; I too had thought of that but unfortunately come up with the solution as a BMW X5 4.6iS. I also became, as you do, completely obsessed about it.
It took weeks and weeks of reading about warranty costs, fuel consumption, sub-frame mounting replacements, timing chain failure and gearbox failure together with the ruinously expensive consumables to wean myself off that idea. Of course, anything sensible couldn’t be considered and fundamentally, and quite madly the basic requirements can be summed up in my username: it has to be blue and turbocharged.
Now, last year, briefly I drove a non-turbo, red Saab 900i convertible for a week while my many cars were all off the road together. In spite of it being a good example of the type I didn’t get on with it; it felt too old and too wilfully odd so I never felt comfortable pursuing the 900. The 9-3 range spans from 1998 right through 2006 (where I have an artificial cut off to do with vehicle tax) and beyond but it wasn’t really until I stumbled across the rare Viggen specification that I knew what I wanted.
What sets the Viggen apart, I’d suggest you read this: http://www.abbottracing.net/cms.php?id_cms=15 – but for me it is the only 9-3 fitted with the Saab 2.3 turbocharged engine; that was enough for me to hang my desire on.
Here is the Viggen as pictured by the seller.
I’ve only had it a week or so but I liked it straight away and I’ve decided to sort out the few problems it has and to make it better with upgrades from Abbott Racing.
It was fitted with almost new Autoguard tyres – an unknown Chinese tyre to me, which although they seemed adequate enough I just can’t trust so they have gone and have been replaced with Goodyear Eagle F1’s together with 20 new Saab bolts as they old ones were worn and some were missing there tapered collars.
The coolant temperature was rising and falling (although it did not overheat in London traffic) so a new thermostat will be fitted. The oil and filter has been changed and a replacement electric aerial and new Saab OE computer/clock (SID) panel has been bought to replace the one in the car with missing pixels. Most importantly, plain charcoal grey Saab mats have gone in to replace the rather garish blue trimmed aftermarket mats that were in the Viggen – I’ve re-used the mats to shield me from lying on concrete again painting the rear wheel hubs with some hydrate 80 as they were rusty.
The only modification from OE is a strut brace and some lowered springs; from the sellers pictures you can see that the Viggen was sitting especially low at the rear and once Scott had it up on a ramp it was clear it was running Apex springs that lowered it by 35/40mm. This is much too low for rural Wiltshire and as there was no corresponding damper fitted it was overall rather poorly set up so to rectify this and generally improve the dynamics I’ve ordered the following parts from Abbott:
• Viggen Rescue Kit including steering rack clamp, uprated bushes & bearings and a sub-frame brace;
• 18mm Rear Anti-Roll Sway Bar
• Set of lowered, stiffer, progressive road springs; these are designed for 18” wheels so in conjunction with the Viggen 17” wheels should provide about a 20mm drop in ride height.
• Koni gas-hydraulic dampers; the springs have been matched to the characteristics of the dampers; ideally, I wanted to put the Viggen back to OE spec but you can’t source original front springs
• Uprated front ARB mounting and drop link bushes
• Braided brake hose set
This should have the Viggen running comfortably, safely & fast. I’ve no current plans to up the power but there is no end of possibility to that particular obsession.
I’m going to get some photos taken as the Abbott improvements go on and I’ll post them up.
There have been a couple of threads on PH where I’ve meant to post a reply but not got around to it; one would be the ‘Council’ thread where my Shogun would fit right in; another was a thread about how the garage/mechanic you use and have a good relationship with, influences your choice of car.
Apart from an long dormant interest in the 1980’s T16 Saab 900 I’d not seriously considered a Saab prior to a couple of years ago; but, short of a long distance car for a family holiday to Scotland a couple of years ago, Scott – the mechanic I’ve used since the early noughties – had an early 9-5 Aero which he’d taken in from an ex-Saab main dealer. Scott runs a lovely, much improved, 9-5 and has his own 900 8-value Turbo waiting for some tender loving care, so he knows the faults and strengths of the brand and has deep respect for it.
The Aero had done nearly a quarter of a million miles, to which I’ve added nearly another twenty thousand. There is an old MG advertising slogan “Safety Fast” which is completely apt for the 9-5, to which you could add ‘value’. These are astonishingly good value cars and whenever anyone starts a thread asking for a family, long distance, fast, economical car for less than a few thousand pounds the correct answer is one of these.
TurboBlue said:
I give you a 2001 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (230/manual) in black with beige leather. A not inconsiderable 247,000 miles but a full and complete Saab Main Dealer service history and one company/private owner from new. Being treated to a new clutch and slave cylinder, two new rear dampers, new number plates, a full size spare wheel, new MoT and some fresh synthetic oil this should be on the road next week for the princely sum of £950.
Anyway, so with the 9-5 and the BBR Shogun available to use on a daily basis, it was usually the Aero that would get chosen, which rendered the Shogun a little surplus to requirements. The Shogun and I have a love-hate relationship which the lack of use was not helping with; but I’m not yet willing to give up the fight – I might win in the end – so I had to put a bit of distance between my competing cars or eventually I’d let the Shogun go.
The bright amongst you would consider that it would be far more sensible just to replace the Aero and the BBR with a single all-purpose car; I too had thought of that but unfortunately come up with the solution as a BMW X5 4.6iS. I also became, as you do, completely obsessed about it.
It took weeks and weeks of reading about warranty costs, fuel consumption, sub-frame mounting replacements, timing chain failure and gearbox failure together with the ruinously expensive consumables to wean myself off that idea. Of course, anything sensible couldn’t be considered and fundamentally, and quite madly the basic requirements can be summed up in my username: it has to be blue and turbocharged.
TurboBlue said:
Brief update – back on the road, again...
...and here is the BBR today at the Bristol MC Sprint at Castle Coombe; spectating, just like me. Is that something else blue & turbocharged next to it too, that gives me an idea.
So, what isn’t an estate car, not even a saloon, nor a SUV; must be blue and turbocharged, preferably cheap with four seats; rare, possibly iconic, ideally a convertible. There isn’t much competition and it begins with an ‘S’. You could see the requirements as simple a ruse to the car I’d already thought of, I’d grant you that, but it led to a Saab 900 or 9-3....and here is the BBR today at the Bristol MC Sprint at Castle Coombe; spectating, just like me. Is that something else blue & turbocharged next to it too, that gives me an idea.
Now, last year, briefly I drove a non-turbo, red Saab 900i convertible for a week while my many cars were all off the road together. In spite of it being a good example of the type I didn’t get on with it; it felt too old and too wilfully odd so I never felt comfortable pursuing the 900. The 9-3 range spans from 1998 right through 2006 (where I have an artificial cut off to do with vehicle tax) and beyond but it wasn’t really until I stumbled across the rare Viggen specification that I knew what I wanted.
What sets the Viggen apart, I’d suggest you read this: http://www.abbottracing.net/cms.php?id_cms=15 – but for me it is the only 9-3 fitted with the Saab 2.3 turbocharged engine; that was enough for me to hang my desire on.
Here is the Viggen as pictured by the seller.
I’ve only had it a week or so but I liked it straight away and I’ve decided to sort out the few problems it has and to make it better with upgrades from Abbott Racing.
It was fitted with almost new Autoguard tyres – an unknown Chinese tyre to me, which although they seemed adequate enough I just can’t trust so they have gone and have been replaced with Goodyear Eagle F1’s together with 20 new Saab bolts as they old ones were worn and some were missing there tapered collars.
The coolant temperature was rising and falling (although it did not overheat in London traffic) so a new thermostat will be fitted. The oil and filter has been changed and a replacement electric aerial and new Saab OE computer/clock (SID) panel has been bought to replace the one in the car with missing pixels. Most importantly, plain charcoal grey Saab mats have gone in to replace the rather garish blue trimmed aftermarket mats that were in the Viggen – I’ve re-used the mats to shield me from lying on concrete again painting the rear wheel hubs with some hydrate 80 as they were rusty.
The only modification from OE is a strut brace and some lowered springs; from the sellers pictures you can see that the Viggen was sitting especially low at the rear and once Scott had it up on a ramp it was clear it was running Apex springs that lowered it by 35/40mm. This is much too low for rural Wiltshire and as there was no corresponding damper fitted it was overall rather poorly set up so to rectify this and generally improve the dynamics I’ve ordered the following parts from Abbott:
• Viggen Rescue Kit including steering rack clamp, uprated bushes & bearings and a sub-frame brace;
• 18mm Rear Anti-Roll Sway Bar
• Set of lowered, stiffer, progressive road springs; these are designed for 18” wheels so in conjunction with the Viggen 17” wheels should provide about a 20mm drop in ride height.
• Koni gas-hydraulic dampers; the springs have been matched to the characteristics of the dampers; ideally, I wanted to put the Viggen back to OE spec but you can’t source original front springs
• Uprated front ARB mounting and drop link bushes
• Braided brake hose set
This should have the Viggen running comfortably, safely & fast. I’ve no current plans to up the power but there is no end of possibility to that particular obsession.
I’m going to get some photos taken as the Abbott improvements go on and I’ll post them up.
Edited by TurboBlue on Saturday 28th February 21:26
TimS2000 said:
As much as they are general derided for their handling, I've always liked the Viggen, the coupe particularly - the wheels, colour and body kit make for a great looking car imo
Absolutely agree... have caught myself looking at them on more than one occasion, haha.OP, good to see you're rescuing it and setting it straight again. Look forward to seeing how this thread progresses.
Cheers,
Grant
That's a lovely looking thing. They can be made to handle the Abbot rescue kit your fitting makes a big difference.
I'll be the first to suggest while it's on the ramps having the other work done get the sump dropped and cleaned. The oil pickup on these gets clogged up which starves the engine of oil pretty soon after you'll get bottom end failure. Not worth the risk for the 100ish it costs to clean the sump.
p.s. the Viggen isn't the only 9-3 fitted with the 2.3
I'll be the first to suggest while it's on the ramps having the other work done get the sump dropped and cleaned. The oil pickup on these gets clogged up which starves the engine of oil pretty soon after you'll get bottom end failure. Not worth the risk for the 100ish it costs to clean the sump.
p.s. the Viggen isn't the only 9-3 fitted with the 2.3
That's a lovely looking SE; the hatchback looks the best IMO; but, it was too practical for me!
I've taken my information from wiki regarding the engines here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-3#First_genera...
Yes, the sump was dropped in 2013 when the timing chain was replaced by the previous owner, I have the receipt for the work done, and it was clean.
The sump on my 9-5 Aero was free of sludge too when that was dropped at 247,000 miles.
I've taken my information from wiki regarding the engines here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-3#First_genera...
Yes, the sump was dropped in 2013 when the timing chain was replaced by the previous owner, I have the receipt for the work done, and it was clean.
The sump on my 9-5 Aero was free of sludge too when that was dropped at 247,000 miles.
TurboBlue said:
That's a lovely looking SE; the hatchback looks the best IMO; but, it was too practical for me!
I've taken my information from wiki regarding the engines here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-3#First_genera...
Yes, the sump was dropped in 2013 when the timing chain was replaced by the previous owner, I have the receipt for the work done, and it was clean.
The sump on my 9-5 Aero was free of sludge too when that was dropped at 247,000 miles.
Wiki is right. Mine wasn't built with the 2.3 it was acquired later in its life. There are a few around that have had it done. It's also got a bigger turbo than the normal Td04, all the abbot rescue kit fitted, Blisten dampers, everything poly bushed, big brake conversion and quite a few other bits.I've taken my information from wiki regarding the engines here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-3#First_genera...
Yes, the sump was dropped in 2013 when the timing chain was replaced by the previous owner, I have the receipt for the work done, and it was clean.
The sump on my 9-5 Aero was free of sludge too when that was dropped at 247,000 miles.
The reason i went for the coupe was the boot. Back when i bought it about 6 years ago i was mountain biking every weekend and the boot will swallow a bike, associated kit, camping gear and everything else.
The only problem i've found with it is every time i've looked to replace it there's nothing i'd rather have. Yes an M3 will handle better but you can't get a bike in, a landrovers more practical but you cant take one to vMax or a trackday an Audi RS or AMG estate might do but i couldn't leave one in Newcastle city center at 2am on a Saturday night without worry and so it goes on.
I just picked up a convertible today to keep it company. It's nowhere near as nice as your Viggen just a standard SE HOT but i'm looking forward to running around in it over the summer.
555JWR said:
The only problem i've found with it is every time i've looked to replace it there's nothing i'd rather have. Yes an M3 will handle better but you can't get a bike in, a landrovers more practical but you cant take one to vMax or a trackday an Audi RS or AMG estate might do but i couldn't leave one in Newcastle city center at 2am on a Saturday night without worry and so it goes on.
I just picked up a convertible today to keep it company. It's nowhere near as nice as your Viggen just a standard SE HOT but i'm looking forward to running around in it over the summer.
Yes, in an epic display of man-maths I too have decided that it is better to run a couple of cars that are not worth that much but which do everything and more that a single more expensive car would do. I had even agreed a budget that was considerably larger than the purchase price of the Viggen but in the end I couldn't spend a lot of money; its like the £5k retro thread running currently on GG; what more do you need?I just picked up a convertible today to keep it company. It's nowhere near as nice as your Viggen just a standard SE HOT but i'm looking forward to running around in it over the summer.
Hope you enjoy your High Output Turbo convertible over the summer.
The Viggen is still at the workshop; a tiny bit of suggestion by Scott, on the basis that a little more torque would make the car drive better has seen the ECU dispatched to 'noobtune' for a stage 1 re-map; should be good for around 275 BHP & 420 NM. A quick shift kit is also being sourced from another member of the Saab community. The Abbott kit should all have arrived but I've not had time to go and have a look at it yet.
I'm missing the Viggen, especially with Spring on its way; to compensate I've been scouring eBay for old brochures and found this 1999 Viggen specific fold out colour brochure.
Turbo Blue - ha!
I'm missing the Viggen, especially with Spring on its way; to compensate I've been scouring eBay for old brochures and found this 1999 Viggen specific fold out colour brochure.
Turbo Blue - ha!
Edited by TurboBlue on Friday 6th March 19:38
This is the kit from Abbott; quite a way to spend £1,500!
There is also a breather kit and a K&N filter on its way but that hopefully will be the end for parts.
I took the Viggen out for a brief drive today as the ECU has returned and there is a lovely deep well of power at the bottom end of the rev range and a fantastic turn of speed when given a prod. Part of the package from new with the Viggen was that the available torque was limited in first and second gears, this suits me fine; especially when you consider that it runs no form of traction control whatsoever and has mere 215 section tyres.
The Viggen should be on the ramp at the workshop over the next couple of days to have this all fitted.
There is also a breather kit and a K&N filter on its way but that hopefully will be the end for parts.
I took the Viggen out for a brief drive today as the ECU has returned and there is a lovely deep well of power at the bottom end of the rev range and a fantastic turn of speed when given a prod. Part of the package from new with the Viggen was that the available torque was limited in first and second gears, this suits me fine; especially when you consider that it runs no form of traction control whatsoever and has mere 215 section tyres.
The Viggen should be on the ramp at the workshop over the next couple of days to have this all fitted.
TurboBlue said:
The Viggen is still at the workshop; a tiny bit of suggestion by Scott, on the basis that a little more torque would make the car drive better has seen the ECU dispatched to 'noobtune' for a stage 1 re-map; should be good for around 275 BHP & 420 NM. A quick shift kit is also being sourced from another member of the Saab community. The Abbott kit should all have arrived but I've not had time to go and have a look at it yet.
I'm missing the Viggen, especially with Spring on its way; to compensate I've been scouring eBay for old brochures and found this 1999 Viggen specific fold out colour brochure.
Turbo Blue - ha!
I've got a 2001 9-3 Aero HOT convertible fitted with traction control which is useless to be honest. It still torque steers like a bugger!I'm missing the Viggen, especially with Spring on its way; to compensate I've been scouring eBay for old brochures and found this 1999 Viggen specific fold out colour brochure.
Turbo Blue - ha!
Edited by TurboBlue on Friday 6th March 19:38
Like you, I've got new springs and shocks to go on plus a steering rack brace and a Hirsch exhaust. Then a Noobtune remap will be needed
I'm surprised these cars made it through testing when they were new as I think the handling can be borderline dangerous in some circumstances.St John Smythe said:
I've got a 2001 9-3 Aero HOT convertible fitted with traction control which is useless to be honest. It still torque steers like a bugger!
Like you, I've got new springs and shocks to go on plus a steering rack brace and a Hirsch exhaust. Then a Noobtune remap will be needed I'm surprised these cars made it through testing when they were new as I think the handling can be borderline dangerous in some circumstances.
My old 9-5 Aero was pretty hopeless with torque steer even with traction control (and I never turned it off) but mine was fairly old and little worn out so I think it was about as poor as it could be; interestingly, the Viggen, which is currently sitting very low was quite reluctant to steer itself up to the point where the over-boost kicked in 3rd gear and I had a very sharp tug on the wheel and a determined little jink hedge-wards.Like you, I've got new springs and shocks to go on plus a steering rack brace and a Hirsch exhaust. Then a Noobtune remap will be needed
I'm surprised these cars made it through testing when they were new as I think the handling can be borderline dangerous in some circumstances.I'm hoping that all the extra bracing, bushing, springing and damping going into the 9-3 will bring it up to a more competent level.
TurboBlue said:
St John Smythe said:
I've got a 2001 9-3 Aero HOT convertible fitted with traction control which is useless to be honest. It still torque steers like a bugger!
Like you, I've got new springs and shocks to go on plus a steering rack brace and a Hirsch exhaust. Then a Noobtune remap will be needed I'm surprised these cars made it through testing when they were new as I think the handling can be borderline dangerous in some circumstances.
My old 9-5 Aero was pretty hopeless with torque steer even with traction control (and I never turned it off) but mine was fairly old and little worn out so I think it was about as poor as it could be; interestingly, the Viggen, which is currently sitting very low was quite reluctant to steer itself up to the point where the over-boost kicked in 3rd gear and I had a very sharp tug on the wheel and a determined little jink hedge-wards.Like you, I've got new springs and shocks to go on plus a steering rack brace and a Hirsch exhaust. Then a Noobtune remap will be needed
I'm surprised these cars made it through testing when they were new as I think the handling can be borderline dangerous in some circumstances.I'm hoping that all the extra bracing, bushing, springing and damping going into the 9-3 will bring it up to a more competent level.
One recommendation I have is to fit the ITG panel filter sold by Abbott Racing. It's quite expensive for what it is but it increases the induction noise nicely (I've also replaced the standard recirc dump valve with a Maptun one)
Ah, recommendations! They are a nightmare! Originally, I would have preferred to go right back to OE springs & Sachs dampers but the front springs are NLA and the rears are expensive too. The Bilstein & Maptune spring kit was probably the front runner until Scott spoke to Abbott.
They specifically recommend the Koni dampers for the lighter 9-3, although they are also happy to recommend Bilstein for the heavier, wider 9-5. Abbott said that the Koni’s were such a job to re-valve to fit that it was easier to match them to a specific progressive spring. So we have come down to a Koni fitment and larger springs (for 18” wheels) in an attempt to raise the Viggen up a little; should be about a 20mm drop overall.
To be fair, I run Koni dampers on my Shogun and that ladder framed, live axled truck is sure footed and controlled so I had no problem with what is quite an expensive option. The workshop generally fits K&N air filters so that too is going on.
Would be interested to hear your feedback on the PFS kit – are you fitting the H&R springs?
They specifically recommend the Koni dampers for the lighter 9-3, although they are also happy to recommend Bilstein for the heavier, wider 9-5. Abbott said that the Koni’s were such a job to re-valve to fit that it was easier to match them to a specific progressive spring. So we have come down to a Koni fitment and larger springs (for 18” wheels) in an attempt to raise the Viggen up a little; should be about a 20mm drop overall.
To be fair, I run Koni dampers on my Shogun and that ladder framed, live axled truck is sure footed and controlled so I had no problem with what is quite an expensive option. The workshop generally fits K&N air filters so that too is going on.
Would be interested to hear your feedback on the PFS kit – are you fitting the H&R springs?
TurboBlue said:
Ah, recommendations! They are a nightmare! Originally, I would have preferred to go right back to OE springs & Sachs dampers but the front springs are NLA and the rears are expensive too. The Bilstein & Maptune spring kit was probably the front runner until Scott spoke to Abbott.
They specifically recommend the Koni dampers for the lighter 9-3, although they are also happy to recommend Bilstein for the heavier, wider 9-5. Abbott said that the Koni’s were such a job to re-valve to fit that it was easier to match them to a specific progressive spring. So we have come down to a Koni fitment and larger springs (for 18” wheels) in an attempt to raise the Viggen up a little; should be about a 20mm drop overall.
To be fair, I run Koni dampers on my Shogun and that ladder framed, live axled truck is sure footed and controlled so I had no problem with what is quite an expensive option. The workshop generally fits K&N air filters so that too is going on.
Would be interested to hear your feedback on the PFS kit – are you fitting the H&R springs?
Yep, H&R springs. I'll report back how the car handles with these. To be honest anything will be a massive improvement on how it is at the moment!They specifically recommend the Koni dampers for the lighter 9-3, although they are also happy to recommend Bilstein for the heavier, wider 9-5. Abbott said that the Koni’s were such a job to re-valve to fit that it was easier to match them to a specific progressive spring. So we have come down to a Koni fitment and larger springs (for 18” wheels) in an attempt to raise the Viggen up a little; should be about a 20mm drop overall.
To be fair, I run Koni dampers on my Shogun and that ladder framed, live axled truck is sure footed and controlled so I had no problem with what is quite an expensive option. The workshop generally fits K&N air filters so that too is going on.
Would be interested to hear your feedback on the PFS kit – are you fitting the H&R springs?
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