Another Clio! A 172 this time as a Daily!
Discussion
Well, I had my fun with the BMW but I decided it was time to move on! As of a week ago I bought a Clio but let's see what I owned previously in terms of French Fancies.
To save this for another thread I shall give you the short version. My love affair with French cars started with driving a Pug 205 GTi DTurbo (that last part you read right!). A 306 GTI-6 however made me decide that I needed one!
So for my first GTi it was this:
Between a few friends where planned to buy a car to rally I then became a part of owning this car!
By this point the 306 had gone after quite a bit of work, so I bought this off a friend. Surprisingly it was quite good fun!
After this was sold I bought a right dog of a 106 GTi and commissioned it into use after some work:
Briefly I owned a dog of a Clio as well. My theme with French cars certainly can be said to be interesting, that is for sure. Even in 1.4 flavour it was not a bad steer truth be told:
After this was sold I have enough classic cars to keep me busy! With me now becoming a 1 classic car man a daily was required. Many cars entered the list including the following:
1) Audi TT 225 - Most of these seemed ropey and tired for my budget and with a plethora of common issues.
2) Mini Cooper S R53 - Same as the above and the day to day MPG put me off (the above seem to be more frugal!).
3) Mercedes W124 300TD. Many of these seemed either pricey for a W124 or simply tired. Maybe they have increased in value.
So a varied choice! A Clio 172 has been considered on many occasions but I never quite gelled with them as I did with the 306 or 205s in all honesty. Their plus points were hard to ignore though (good MPG combined with a number of toys. Add to that a great chassis and a pokey engine and they are a lovely package even with the lacklustre steering).
When a low mileage example turned up I decided it was worth a look. For once someone had been accurate with their description! The car drove lovely and with no real faults present! A deal was struck!
Now for some pics of the current motor!:
I have to say that I have grown on this car very quickly despite its condition and history. It drives like it is on rails, and still retains many fun handling features of older hot hatches. They certainly do represent excellent VFM!
What is the spec with this car. IMO it is not a bad one including:
Quantum Remap (180ish BHP)
KTR panel filter
Samco Inlet pipe with breather pipe.
Proflow Cat back system with 182 tailpipes with bumper (this is actually fairly quiet!)
Speedline Turini Wheels
Cup Carbon Fibre washer jet blanks
Cup Rear Spoiler
RenaultSport Mats (Genuine).
Truth be told it did help that the car was in a good spec, or at least for me. IME from a friend the pattern backboxes barely last a couple of years if you are a lucky with the genuine items being expensive, making this solution quite attractive! I also always liked the Turini wheels on the Clio Sports
.
So far I have given the car a service (it was running for a short while on Bosch Super 4 Plugs! Why?) and it has been a superb daily runner!
We shall see if I do more but now it is time to enjoy.
To save this for another thread I shall give you the short version. My love affair with French cars started with driving a Pug 205 GTi DTurbo (that last part you read right!). A 306 GTI-6 however made me decide that I needed one!
So for my first GTi it was this:
Between a few friends where planned to buy a car to rally I then became a part of owning this car!
By this point the 306 had gone after quite a bit of work, so I bought this off a friend. Surprisingly it was quite good fun!
After this was sold I bought a right dog of a 106 GTi and commissioned it into use after some work:
Briefly I owned a dog of a Clio as well. My theme with French cars certainly can be said to be interesting, that is for sure. Even in 1.4 flavour it was not a bad steer truth be told:
After this was sold I have enough classic cars to keep me busy! With me now becoming a 1 classic car man a daily was required. Many cars entered the list including the following:
1) Audi TT 225 - Most of these seemed ropey and tired for my budget and with a plethora of common issues.
2) Mini Cooper S R53 - Same as the above and the day to day MPG put me off (the above seem to be more frugal!).
3) Mercedes W124 300TD. Many of these seemed either pricey for a W124 or simply tired. Maybe they have increased in value.
So a varied choice! A Clio 172 has been considered on many occasions but I never quite gelled with them as I did with the 306 or 205s in all honesty. Their plus points were hard to ignore though (good MPG combined with a number of toys. Add to that a great chassis and a pokey engine and they are a lovely package even with the lacklustre steering).
When a low mileage example turned up I decided it was worth a look. For once someone had been accurate with their description! The car drove lovely and with no real faults present! A deal was struck!
Now for some pics of the current motor!:
I have to say that I have grown on this car very quickly despite its condition and history. It drives like it is on rails, and still retains many fun handling features of older hot hatches. They certainly do represent excellent VFM!
What is the spec with this car. IMO it is not a bad one including:
Quantum Remap (180ish BHP)
KTR panel filter
Samco Inlet pipe with breather pipe.
Proflow Cat back system with 182 tailpipes with bumper (this is actually fairly quiet!)
Speedline Turini Wheels
Cup Carbon Fibre washer jet blanks
Cup Rear Spoiler
RenaultSport Mats (Genuine).
Truth be told it did help that the car was in a good spec, or at least for me. IME from a friend the pattern backboxes barely last a couple of years if you are a lucky with the genuine items being expensive, making this solution quite attractive! I also always liked the Turini wheels on the Clio Sports
.So far I have given the car a service (it was running for a short while on Bosch Super 4 Plugs! Why?) and it has been a superb daily runner!
We shall see if I do more but now it is time to enjoy
.Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 12th March 23:34
Good choice, my silver 172 is also running Turinis and a Cup Spoiler and I also use mine as a daily and have done for the past 4 years. As long as you get one that's been looked after (which appears your has) then bang for buck, they're almost unbeatable.
You are also spot on about the OEM back boxes, I've had 2 since I've owned the car so when the current one goes, I'll be getting a stainless job. You might want to have a look at the Cooksport Springs as your car is sitting a little high? They lower the car a touch but still retain the decent ride.
You are also spot on about the OEM back boxes, I've had 2 since I've owned the car so when the current one goes, I'll be getting a stainless job. You might want to have a look at the Cooksport Springs as your car is sitting a little high? They lower the car a touch but still retain the decent ride.
marky911 said:
Another corker!
We've had a few similar cars. A man of great taste.
PS. I'm not stalking you. It's just that I'll click on a thread and go "Wow, excellent" and then realise it's another one of yours.
No worries, I have had a flick through your post (I shall have to comment on it when I get some spare time!) and I have to say that you do indeed have great taste. It is good to see that some readers are pleased with my choice of motors over the years We've had a few similar cars. A man of great taste.
PS. I'm not stalking you. It's just that I'll click on a thread and go "Wow, excellent" and then realise it's another one of yours.
.grenpayne said:
Good choice, my silver 172 is also running Turinis and a Cup Spoiler and I also use mine as a daily and have done for the past 4 years. As long as you get one that's been looked after (which appears your has) then bang for buck, they're almost unbeatable.
You are also spot on about the OEM back boxes, I've had 2 since I've owned the car so when the current one goes, I'll be getting a stainless job. You might want to have a look at the Cooksport Springs as your car is sitting a little high? They lower the car a touch but still retain the decent ride.
Thank you for the kind comments. I got the same impression before truth be told. As you can see I have had a few French cars and none of them were that bad! Truth be told an 06 Passat I owned was far worse than all of them for issues and reliability! I guess French cars (especially hatches with large engines shoehoned into them) do come with a reputation.You are also spot on about the OEM back boxes, I've had 2 since I've owned the car so when the current one goes, I'll be getting a stainless job. You might want to have a look at the Cooksport Springs as your car is sitting a little high? They lower the car a touch but still retain the decent ride.
This was TBH could have done with a service a little sooner than I did (I am a little pickier than most there mind you) but but it has got low mileage in addition to having cash thrown at it over the years. It even has the odd Mark Fish receipt present in the history folder!
The car does look a little high in some of those shots as a result of the uneven ground, but coming from a lowered E36 and my Escort RS Turbo on Ledas it is nice to have something at a decent height. However I shall bear in mind that recommendation in the future.
iacabu said:
Very nice!
I'm hoping to pick up a 172 cup on Saturday morning... Can't wait
Many thanks. If it is a good 'un you'll love it. I almost went for an R53 Cooper S over this! After driving this more I am glad I went with it! Sure the Mini has better styling inside and offers a superior motorway experience but the performance for me was not all that in addition to the experience leaving me a little lukewarm truth be told!I'm hoping to pick up a 172 cup on Saturday morning... Can't wait
Not much to update here. With some driving in London during the weekend (when did London get so busy) and driving back to Warwick with a number of town trips the car has averaged 34MPG via a tank to tank method. Not too bad I guess when I was putting my foot down on a few of the backroads (they are to be enjoyed after all eh?).
In other news I finished completing the service after going through the Service history. It seems that a few years ago someone put in Bosch Super 4 Plugs, probably because it is what a certain Euro supplier sell for them and the fact that they are a 1/3 of the price of the platinums. After 30k it was definitely time to tie changing them with the service with the correct NGK Platinum plugs, or PFR6E-10s for the plug afficionados.
Suffice to say the plugs had seen better days but the engine seems to be healthy going by the state of them:
I am glad to say that the car despite running well before does seem to run a little better now thankfully.
In other news I finished completing the service after going through the Service history. It seems that a few years ago someone put in Bosch Super 4 Plugs, probably because it is what a certain Euro supplier sell for them and the fact that they are a 1/3 of the price of the platinums. After 30k it was definitely time to tie changing them with the service with the correct NGK Platinum plugs, or PFR6E-10s for the plug afficionados.
Suffice to say the plugs had seen better days but the engine seems to be healthy going by the state of them:
I am glad to say that the car despite running well before does seem to run a little better now thankfully
.SebringMan said:
Suffice to say the plugs had seen better days but the engine seems to be healthy going by the state of them:
I am glad to say that the car despite running well before does seem to run a little better now thankfully.
I pulled my plugs (and did the coil and leads at the same time) last weekend in order to see if I could cure the (overly) lumpy idle...I am glad to say that the car despite running well before does seem to run a little better now thankfully
.Started from the left (Cyl 4) and that was perfect, next one was perfect, pulled the 3rd (Cyl 2) and that was black and very crusty!
A new injector was ordered but I haven't had time/ dry weather/ daylight to swap it over
Ah, not good!
Besides the above hiccup how has Clio ownership treated you?
Re-Edit: I'd be careful with replacing ignition bits with anything but OEM ignition parts. Pattern and 'upgraded' ignition parts tend to cause more issues IME.
Besides the above hiccup how has Clio ownership treated you?
Edited by SebringMan on Tuesday 17th March 19:38
Re-Edit: I'd be careful with replacing ignition bits with anything but OEM ignition parts. Pattern and 'upgraded' ignition parts tend to cause more issues IME.
Edited by SebringMan on Wednesday 18th March 22:36
SebringMan said:
Ah, not good!
Besides the above hiccup how has Clio ownership treated you?
I meant to reply to this, pre-edit, last night - so apologies if this doesn't make sense to anyone else...Besides the above hiccup how has Clio ownership treated you?
Edited by SebringMan on Tuesday 17th March 19:38
Yeah, all the parts are OEM. The leads, particularly, look very different to the aftermarket ones that were on there.
The car already runs better but I won't take it out without doing the injector.
This is my 'daily', despite being remapped with ported runners, stainless exhaust, adjustable dampers etc. It keeps the mileage of my low miles Clio Williams and very low miles Clio V6. I like Clios.
So far, so up and down. It is my second 172 and in pretty good nick, despite the 85k mileage almost certainly being a result of clocking! It needs a new driveshaft (holding together for now) and a new gearbox as an oil change didn't help the crunchy 3rd and 4th gear changes. Possibly a new radiator as well.
Add in some money spent on a new head unit (last one wasn't working), new gearstick gaiter, some leather seat restorer/ polish and the service items... Plus a new passenger hub, a full set of MPS tyres and a number of things I've forgotten and including tax and insurance it has cost me £1,850-ish.
I still don't think that is bad value but when you consider it will likely need the belts, dephaser and a gearbox refresh this year, I am probably looking at £3k all in for an absolutely solid car. When you think of it like that - still not bad value as it will be in good shape and should be good for years to come at that point!
Wow, you do have a collection of Clios and it seems that you have the best! Out of the mods you have done what do you recomennd and is there anything else you can suggest for my car? I am attempting to not fiddle with it as IMO it is a great package as it is but we shall see how long that thought holds for.
Is there much to report? Not really truth be told. I am simply been enjoying this. I have no idea whether the Turinis on 195s would improve handling but boy this car loves to stick in the corners, the chassis really is a joy .
As for MPG this is getting around 28MPG on a work commute and a very short one at that. On a run I have seen true figures between 38 and 43MPG, so not too bad for what it is.
However, one expense is about to arrive; the cambelt :/. The car according to the receipts last had a cambelt done at 29,000 miles by Mark Fish Motorsport in 2010. Come forward to 2015 and the car is now on 70k. Certainly from a mileage perspective it does not require changing, but I dare not risk seeing how long the belt can go on for in this unknown territory.
As a result I have booked the car into BTM Performance to get the belts, tensioners and dephaser pulley all changed. It's an expense I could have done without but OTOH I should not have missed such a key bit of info when buying the car. Ah well, at least it's a very clean car (rare for me!) and with many desirable extra bits....
.As for MPG this is getting around 28MPG on a work commute and a very short one at that. On a run I have seen true figures between 38 and 43MPG, so not too bad for what it is
.However, one expense is about to arrive; the cambelt :/. The car according to the receipts last had a cambelt done at 29,000 miles by Mark Fish Motorsport in 2010. Come forward to 2015 and the car is now on 70k. Certainly from a mileage perspective it does not require changing, but I dare not risk seeing how long the belt can go on for in this unknown territory.
As a result I have booked the car into BTM Performance to get the belts, tensioners and dephaser pulley all changed. It's an expense I could have done without but OTOH I should not have missed such a key bit of info when buying the car. Ah well, at least it's a very clean car (rare for me!) and with many desirable extra bits....
The story was left with my car going to BTM Performance to have its cambelt change undertaken. Whilst it was there the dephaser rattle was picked out almost straight away. It did not sound as bad as some of the YouTube videos in all honesty. Out of all of them it probably sounded like this one albeit quieter, at least to me anyway:
https://youtu.be/gXjmMpvtxc4
I thought, well, hoped that it may have been a tensioner until Fred confirmed my suspicions. A couple of days later and my car had a new dephaser, and new belts with pulleys. Sure enough the car seems to be alot quieter now!
At the time it was noted that whilst the car was a very clean example the cam timing was slightly out from the last specialist that did the work (no, it was not K-Tec, but a very well respected Clio Sport specialist). Whether they used a dial gauge to check TDC is still debatable. That said the car does seem slightly torquier lower down (not much though!) and the top end may have a little more of a kick, but nothing to shout home about. Naturally this could all be in my mind after such an expense! OTOH with the oil being changed as a result of the dephaser swap I should not need to service it for a year or so given that I only gave it a full service a month or 2 beforehand.
As a treat for the car I decided to see what power this car kicked out. With this decided off I headed with some Clio Sport.net peeps to a rolling road in Bidford on Avon.
This was the result:
159BHP at the wheels. Not a bad figure for a 172. The lowest figure was 149BHP for a stock 172 with the 182 all making what mine was oddly enough give or take 1BHP. The highest figure (albeit by 2 BHP!) was by a 172 Cup with a K-Tec exhaust and Sports cat, and IMO a remap.
I knew why the car went so well! What I did know also what that the car did not stop so well! Upon pressing the pedal I was greeted by faint grinding noises yet the brake pads had plenty of life and the discs on the face of it looked almost new! It did however have an advisory for the MOT stating that the discs 'looked worn, grooved or scored, but not seriously weakened' and it did also pass the brake test with no real inbalance. High speed braking also required commitment; I remember Fred @BTM saying that my brakes were shocking! Before I ended up rear ending somebody (easy!) they did require attention swifly.
Off I went and puchased a new set of discs and pads whilst getting together some familiar lubes (no, not like that!) for the job:
Discs? Check
Pads? Check
Brake Grease? Check
Copper Grease? Check
New sliding plates? Check (not necessary, but read on...)
With the a simple external inspection everything looked fine:
Even after removal things looked rosy. Why am I changing these again?
Ah, maybe not?
In places the discs on the inside had worn the grooves down almost flush. A 2mm step had formed within the mid circumference of the braking area.
Take a guess as to which pads were the inner pads on the car...
But hang on, these brakes are nearly new and with not so shoddy parts including Brembo Max discs and Ferodo pads! What could cause this?
There are many reasons why this is said to happen. Some specialists say that the inner pads seized into the carrier causing the above, often saying to remove the anti rattle plates so as to prevent it. This was something I was keen to avoid so as to not have pads clunking about, this is my daily after all. On the other hand I did not wish to have the same problem happen again!
I have never been a fan of copper grease on sliding surfaces finding that it can congeal (indeed, the sliders seemed to have brake dust and gunk on them. Brake grease in these applications however seems to have worked for me in the past. This is a controversial topic so as Columbo (RIP) said, I'll say one more thing on it.
Here is one of the 2 sticking sliders I removed with traces of the good ol' copper grease:
Where I do use copper grease however is for hub faces and fixings, so as to prevent seizing.
I also noticed that there was some corrosion present (well, slight rusting) on the carriers below the plates. I know that on most pre '95 Brembo 4 pots 'plate lift' is a big problem causing pads to seize in. Maybe this is often an overlooked area.
With a wire attachment on drill, followed by some 240 grit sandpaper the surface was smooth once more. To safeguard it I put some Etch primer onto the bare surfaces followed by brake grease. When it came to install the new sliding plates & pads with the aforementioned grease on the sliding surfaces the pads were definitely free to move about on the plates, far moreso than the old pads.
After that it was time to refit everything:
Whilst the pads took some time to bed in they do work very well now! I am pleased that the car can come to a stop under its own steam!
For those of you who have not fallen asleep there was one thing left to do on the car ; regas the AC. This has never worked under my ownership. So off the car went to an AC specialist I have previously used. After performing the vacuum test (and finding 50g worth of stuff in there) there were surprisingly no leaks detected (or major in the guy's words in terms of what a vacuum test can do). After which the car was regassed. It is great to have the AC back working in the car for sure!
In all these first few months have not been the cheapest but I have also seen to a couple of issues that should not plague the car again with any luck. There are one or two more things left to attend to (reversing switch and headlight restoration) but for now they can wait .
Thanks for reading.
https://youtu.be/gXjmMpvtxc4
I thought, well, hoped that it may have been a tensioner until Fred confirmed my suspicions. A couple of days later and my car had a new dephaser, and new belts with pulleys. Sure enough the car seems to be alot quieter now!
At the time it was noted that whilst the car was a very clean example the cam timing was slightly out from the last specialist that did the work (no, it was not K-Tec, but a very well respected Clio Sport specialist). Whether they used a dial gauge to check TDC is still debatable. That said the car does seem slightly torquier lower down (not much though!) and the top end may have a little more of a kick, but nothing to shout home about. Naturally this could all be in my mind after such an expense! OTOH with the oil being changed as a result of the dephaser swap I should not need to service it for a year or so given that I only gave it a full service a month or 2 beforehand.
As a treat for the car I decided to see what power this car kicked out. With this decided off I headed with some Clio Sport.net peeps to a rolling road in Bidford on Avon.
This was the result:
159BHP at the wheels. Not a bad figure for a 172. The lowest figure was 149BHP for a stock 172 with the 182 all making what mine was oddly enough give or take 1BHP. The highest figure (albeit by 2 BHP!) was by a 172 Cup with a K-Tec exhaust and Sports cat, and IMO a remap.
I knew why the car went so well! What I did know also what that the car did not stop so well! Upon pressing the pedal I was greeted by faint grinding noises yet the brake pads had plenty of life and the discs on the face of it looked almost new! It did however have an advisory for the MOT stating that the discs 'looked worn, grooved or scored, but not seriously weakened' and it did also pass the brake test with no real inbalance. High speed braking also required commitment; I remember Fred @BTM saying that my brakes were shocking! Before I ended up rear ending somebody (easy!) they did require attention swifly.
Off I went and puchased a new set of discs and pads whilst getting together some familiar lubes (no, not like that!) for the job:
Discs? Check
Pads? Check
Brake Grease? Check
Copper Grease? Check
New sliding plates? Check (not necessary, but read on...)
With the a simple external inspection everything looked fine:
Even after removal things looked rosy. Why am I changing these again?
Ah, maybe not?
In places the discs on the inside had worn the grooves down almost flush. A 2mm step had formed within the mid circumference of the braking area.
Take a guess as to which pads were the inner pads on the car...
But hang on, these brakes are nearly new and with not so shoddy parts including Brembo Max discs and Ferodo pads! What could cause this?
There are many reasons why this is said to happen. Some specialists say that the inner pads seized into the carrier causing the above, often saying to remove the anti rattle plates so as to prevent it. This was something I was keen to avoid so as to not have pads clunking about, this is my daily after all. On the other hand I did not wish to have the same problem happen again!
I have never been a fan of copper grease on sliding surfaces finding that it can congeal (indeed, the sliders seemed to have brake dust and gunk on them. Brake grease in these applications however seems to have worked for me in the past. This is a controversial topic so as Columbo (RIP) said, I'll say one more thing on it.
Here is one of the 2 sticking sliders I removed with traces of the good ol' copper grease:
Where I do use copper grease however is for hub faces and fixings, so as to prevent seizing
.I also noticed that there was some corrosion present (well, slight rusting) on the carriers below the plates. I know that on most pre '95 Brembo 4 pots 'plate lift' is a big problem causing pads to seize in. Maybe this is often an overlooked area.
With a wire attachment on drill, followed by some 240 grit sandpaper the surface was smooth once more. To safeguard it I put some Etch primer onto the bare surfaces followed by brake grease. When it came to install the new sliding plates & pads with the aforementioned grease on the sliding surfaces the pads were definitely free to move about on the plates, far moreso than the old pads.
After that it was time to refit everything:
Whilst the pads took some time to bed in they do work very well now! I am pleased that the car can come to a stop under its own steam!
For those of you who have not fallen asleep there was one thing left to do on the car ; regas the AC. This has never worked under my ownership. So off the car went to an AC specialist I have previously used. After performing the vacuum test (and finding 50g worth of stuff in there) there were surprisingly no leaks detected (or major in the guy's words in terms of what a vacuum test can do). After which the car was regassed. It is great to have the AC back working in the car for sure!
In all these first few months have not been the cheapest but I have also seen to a couple of issues that should not plague the car again with any luck
. There are one or two more things left to attend to (reversing switch and headlight restoration) but for now they can wait .Thanks for reading.
Edited by SebringMan on Saturday 6th June 09:50
The 'to do' list with my car is shrinking slowly but surely.
For quite some time, well, since I bought the car the reversing lights have never worked. Car parks have been interesting to say the least. I heard that the gearbox sensor was an issue here but I thought I would check the car out first, given that the gearbox has to be partially drained for the sensor to be fitted due to its location.
After obtaining a new reversing sensor, establishing that it went to a dead short upon closing I shorted the wires out on the car with the ignition on. Sure enough the reversing lights worked for the very first time ever in my ownership. With that in mind I ordered 4 litres of Elf's finest; Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80 GL4+ gearbox oil. With some food grade plastic tubing and a funnel I was ready to get stuck in.
Whilst I was draining the gearbox oil I cleaned the misting oil around the selector shaft and noticed a slight amount of play in one of the linkages at the bottom of the gearbox, but the selector shaft is play free.
What was strange was how clean the gearbox oil was that came out of the gearbox! Maybe it had been done before. However, with the new Elf stuff in the gearbox is now pretty much silent :smiley:. Furthermore the gear changes have improved from cold. It also helps that people can see where I am reversing now! It is nice when a job works out like this :smile:.
Now to look into changing the bush/rod at the bottom of the gearbox in an effort to improve the gearchanges. Any ideas if the parts are available seperately?
For quite some time, well, since I bought the car the reversing lights have never worked. Car parks have been interesting to say the least. I heard that the gearbox sensor was an issue here but I thought I would check the car out first, given that the gearbox has to be partially drained for the sensor to be fitted due to its location.
After obtaining a new reversing sensor, establishing that it went to a dead short upon closing I shorted the wires out on the car with the ignition on. Sure enough the reversing lights worked for the very first time ever in my ownership. With that in mind I ordered 4 litres of Elf's finest; Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80 GL4+ gearbox oil. With some food grade plastic tubing and a funnel I was ready to get stuck in.
Whilst I was draining the gearbox oil I cleaned the misting oil around the selector shaft and noticed a slight amount of play in one of the linkages at the bottom of the gearbox, but the selector shaft is play free.
What was strange was how clean the gearbox oil was that came out of the gearbox! Maybe it had been done before. However, with the new Elf stuff in the gearbox is now pretty much silent :smiley:. Furthermore the gear changes have improved from cold. It also helps that people can see where I am reversing now! It is nice when a job works out like this :smile:.
Now to look into changing the bush/rod at the bottom of the gearbox in an effort to improve the gearchanges. Any ideas if the parts are available seperately?
It has been a quite one for me but I have been making progress. There is less to change on the car (Steering wheel if I am picky but it is not bad by any stretch, and maybe a front end respray, but again it is not that bad especially for it being a daily and maybe the top engine mount), it is almost feeling strange!
When the car went to BTM Performance Fred commented on the car's great condition but pointed out a few things I should keep an eye on. While most of these have been taken care of the thermostat had not. He reckoned that with a new one the car would run a little smoother and be just so. With the old thermostat the gauge used to sit bang on half way, maybe go under by half a mm or go the other way, where they tend to sit (slightly above halfway). On the basis that winter is coming and there seems to be little evidence of the coolant being changed I went to Renault to purchase some Type D and a new thermostat.
Initially all looks fine:
Again, everything looks OK:
Errrr, maybe not! The inner thermostat seal had perished and split, causing one side of the seal to expand and come away.
I then filled the engine up with Type-D until coolant came out of the bleed hose when I then filled the coolant to the max and fired it up. It seemed to warm up quicker than previously and the gauge stayed just slightly above 1/2 way without budging at all! On my drive back the coolant level dropped to the minimum where I promptly topped it up once the car had cooled down. I would like to think that the level has settled and all air has come out.
Maybe it is placebo but the car was quite sharp on the throttle which I put down to the remap ; a friend of mine was not too keen about this from his 172. It does seem to be smoother than before as well. The heater is also hotter than before, handy with winter not being miles away and for those cold nights. I had had cars where the gauge does not even approach halfway!
When the car went to BTM Performance Fred commented on the car's great condition but pointed out a few things I should keep an eye on. While most of these have been taken care of the thermostat had not. He reckoned that with a new one the car would run a little smoother and be just so. With the old thermostat the gauge used to sit bang on half way, maybe go under by half a mm or go the other way, where they tend to sit (slightly above halfway). On the basis that winter is coming and there seems to be little evidence of the coolant being changed I went to Renault to purchase some Type D and a new thermostat.
Initially all looks fine:
Again, everything looks OK:
Errrr, maybe not! The inner thermostat seal had perished and split, causing one side of the seal to expand and come away.
I then filled the engine up with Type-D until coolant came out of the bleed hose when I then filled the coolant to the max and fired it up. It seemed to warm up quicker than previously and the gauge stayed just slightly above 1/2 way without budging at all! On my drive back the coolant level dropped to the minimum where I promptly topped it up once the car had cooled down. I would like to think that the level has settled and all air has come out.
Maybe it is placebo but the car was quite sharp on the throttle which I put down to the remap ; a friend of mine was not too keen about this from his 172. It does seem to be smoother than before as well. The heater is also hotter than before, handy with winter not being miles away and for those cold nights. I had had cars where the gauge does not even approach halfway!
Synchromesh said:
Out of interest, how does the 172 compare to the GTI-6?
I should probably point out a few things.My GTi-6 had 99k when I bought it but it was 7 years old as opposed to the Clio now being 12 years old but with 74k now. It was a clean car however.
With that out of the way I prefer the Clio
. The 306 gained pace possibly a little quicker between the gears due to the 6 speed gearbox but the Clio is no slouch. On a 1/4 mile I actually got better times with the Clio with almost a second in it! The Pug had the nicer exhaust note I reckon however.In terms of cornering the GTi-6 was great but the Clio IMHO is something else. It is more playful and predictable, yet no less fun! I trust the Clio more in the bends and enjoy throwing it around if that helps. At high speed the Clio feels very planted compared to the GTi-6 and the 106 GTi I owned. At 3 figures the 306 felt a little light on the front! My Porsche 944s felt very planted at these speeds and the Clio is surprisingly no different. It does feel in some ways like a sorted 205 GTi. The ride is not too bad either! I am seriously consider renewing the suspension with genuine parts next year as opposed to the Bilstein B14s but we shall see.
Where the Pug does win in the handling stakes is in steering feel ; the Clio 172 (and others I have been in) have never had very communicative steering whereas the GTi-6 feels very natural for a PAS setup, probably one of the best PAS setups I have come across despite the weight of the steering. I would not say the Clio is horrific though, the EPAS systems in BMWs these days take care of that
.The interiors are similar, but the Clio does seem more up to date obviously and with more handy toys! The AC seems to work better for one!
The Pug is roomier and more of an easier car to live with in terms of space however.
Both are cheap to run for their performance IMO but the Clio has a pricey cambelt change ; while it is not complicated it can be fubared by mechanics who think tippexing will work. The GTi-6 is similar but it is an easier belt change. However, I could never see more than 39MPG out of the Pug without driving like a nun; 33MPG was the norm. The Clio will easily see 33MPG and on motorways see 40MPG if staying around the speed limit ; I have even had 43MPG out of the Clio via a tank to tank calculation! That IMHO is not much worse than what I got out of diesels! My route to the gym will see around 38MPG from the Clio whereas an Insignia 2.0 CDTi did around 50MPG in comparison, the DCI Kangoos and Clios would usurp that figure but of course they would be slower.
Hopefully the above gives you the answer you want
.SebringMan said:
Where the Pug does win in the handling stakes is in steering feel ; the Clio 172 (and others I have been in) have never had very communicative steering whereas the GTi-6 feels very natural for a PAS setup, probably one of the best PAS setups I have come across despite the weight of the steering. I would not say the Clio is horrific though, the EPAS systems in BMWs these days take care of that .
It's worthwhile swapping the bus steering wheel for an aftermarket one to improve the steering feel IMHO. I went for a 350mm one with a slight dish which also improved the driving position for me. .
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