The not so common A45 AMG
Discussion
ecain63 said:
Facelift arrives in Q3 so you may see pre-facelifts drop soon
I wish! The facelift barely qualifies as one. Adds a couple hp from a remap, no other major changes from what I know?I am afraid it won't affect the residuals of the older cars at all. Zero incentive for owners of the old cars to switch to the newer one. The only nice thing to have for me personally would be Apple Carplay.
ecain63 said:
TheAllSeeingPie said:
ecain63 said:
chuntington101 said:
What part of the Stage 3 upgrade? guessing a larger low temp rad for the chargecooler and a beefier pump.
I don't wonder why MB are soo insistent on using chargecoolers rather than air to water intercoolers. I adds a lot of weight and complexity to a system. Dose anyone do a chargecooler delete option for these?
Don't think this is an option yet, if at all. The A45 is still a young platform and any new mod released really is new territory. Give it time!I don't wonder why MB are soo insistent on using chargecoolers rather than air to water intercoolers. I adds a lot of weight and complexity to a system. Dose anyone do a chargecooler delete option for these?
The chargecooler (air to water intercooler) is the silver box thing mounted above the gearbox in between the turbo and the inlet manifold. This is basically like a radiator, the hot air from the turbo heats up the water, thus cooling he intake air. This water is then pumped to the front of the car and through another radiator. This expels the heat to the atmosphere and the cycle starts again.
An air to air intercooler is basically a large radiator that the air passes through. The ambient air then directly cools the boosted air. The advantage of the air to air intercooler is it is more efficient as the heat only has one thermal barrier to go through (one layer of aluminium).
OEMs have done the chargecooler before and turbo road cars (thinking back to the mk1 Toyota celica) and most owners ditch the chargecooler and go with a front mounted air to air intercooler.
chuntington101 said:
I don't wonder why MB are soo insistent on using chargecoolers rather than air to water intercoolers. I adds a lot of weight and complexity to a system. Dose anyone do a chargecooler delete option for these?
chuntington101 said:
Yeah I don't blame you! Lol
The chargecooler (air to water intercooler) is the silver box thing mounted above the gearbox in between the turbo and the inlet manifold. This is basically like a radiator, the hot air from the turbo heats up the water, thus cooling he intake air. This water is then pumped to the front of the car and through another radiator. This expels the heat to the atmosphere and the cycle starts again.
An air to air intercooler is basically a large radiator that the air passes through. The ambient air then directly cools the boosted air. The advantage of the air to air intercooler is it is more efficient as the heat only has one thermal barrier to go through (one layer of aluminium).
OEMs have done the chargecooler before and turbo road cars (thinking back to the mk1 Toyota celica) and most owners ditch the chargecooler and go with a front mounted air to air intercooler.
Where I highlighted in your first post, did you mean air-to-air then? I'm confused as you've said that you should replace a chargecooler with soemthing that works in the same way, then said that way is rubbish and use air to air?The chargecooler (air to water intercooler) is the silver box thing mounted above the gearbox in between the turbo and the inlet manifold. This is basically like a radiator, the hot air from the turbo heats up the water, thus cooling he intake air. This water is then pumped to the front of the car and through another radiator. This expels the heat to the atmosphere and the cycle starts again.
An air to air intercooler is basically a large radiator that the air passes through. The ambient air then directly cools the boosted air. The advantage of the air to air intercooler is it is more efficient as the heat only has one thermal barrier to go through (one layer of aluminium).
OEMs have done the chargecooler before and turbo road cars (thinking back to the mk1 Toyota celica) and most owners ditch the chargecooler and go with a front mounted air to air intercooler.
Personally I prefer chargecoolers as they are more thermally efficient at the cooling stage and you can get the air temps close to ambient or lower if you use dry ice / killer chiller (air con). You won't get down to ambient with an air to air cooler as the heat has to transfer somewhere and you won't get an intercooler big enough without suffering from pumping losses / lag. However I do go for supercharged engines where chargecoolers are probably more common and fit the power delivery better.
Edited by TheAllSeeingPie on Thursday 2nd July 18:48
TheAllSeeingPie said:
chuntington101 said:
I don't wonder why MB are soo insistent on using chargecoolers rather than air to water intercoolers. I adds a lot of weight and complexity to a system. Dose anyone do a chargecooler delete option for these? [/quot]
Personally I prefer chargecoolers as they are more thermally efficient at the cooling stage and you can get the air temps close to ambient or lower if you use dry ice / killer chiller (air con). You won't get down to ambient with an air to air cooler as the heat has to transfer somewhere and you won't get an intercooler big enough without suffering from pumping losses / lag. However I do go for supercharged engines where chargecoolers are probably more common and fit the power delivery better.
Yeah sorry that was a slight typo! I meant air to air.chuntington101 said:
Yeah I don't blame you! Lol
The chargecooler (air to water intercooler) is the silver box thing mounted above the gearbox in between the turbo and the inlet manifold. This is basically like a radiator, the hot air from the turbo heats up the water, thus cooling he intake air. This water is then pumped to the front of the car and through another radiator. This expels the heat to the atmosphere and the cycle starts again.
An air to air intercooler is basically a large radiator that the air passes through. The ambient air then directly cools the boosted air. The advantage of the air to air intercooler is it is more efficient as the heat only has one thermal barrier to go through (one layer of aluminium).
OEMs have done the chargecooler before and turbo road cars (thinking back to the mk1 Toyota celica) and most owners ditch the chargecooler and go with a front mounted air to air intercooler.
Where I highlighted in your first post, did you mean air-to-air then? I'm confused as you've said that you should replace a chargecooler with soemthing that works in the same way, then said that way is rubbish and use air to air?The chargecooler (air to water intercooler) is the silver box thing mounted above the gearbox in between the turbo and the inlet manifold. This is basically like a radiator, the hot air from the turbo heats up the water, thus cooling he intake air. This water is then pumped to the front of the car and through another radiator. This expels the heat to the atmosphere and the cycle starts again.
An air to air intercooler is basically a large radiator that the air passes through. The ambient air then directly cools the boosted air. The advantage of the air to air intercooler is it is more efficient as the heat only has one thermal barrier to go through (one layer of aluminium).
OEMs have done the chargecooler before and turbo road cars (thinking back to the mk1 Toyota celica) and most owners ditch the chargecooler and go with a front mounted air to air intercooler.
Personally I prefer chargecoolers as they are more thermally efficient at the cooling stage and you can get the air temps close to ambient or lower if you use dry ice / killer chiller (air con). You won't get down to ambient with an air to air cooler as the heat has to transfer somewhere and you won't get an intercooler big enough without suffering from pumping losses / lag. However I do go for supercharged engines where chargecoolers are probably more common and fit the power delivery better.
The only way an air to water setup is more efficient is if you cool the water BELOW ambient. The only ways you can do this is adding ice or using a heat pump. Both methods will only give you any advantage for a very short period of time. Once the water is heated to above ambient your loosing any advantages of an air to water cooler over a air to air. You will need to stop and add more ice or allow time for the killer chiller to remove the heat energy.
However with a properly sized air to air intercooler you peak temps will be lower and recovery pretty much instant.
Obviously with a supercharged V8 it's not as easy to run air to air intercoolers, although not impossible. Look at the Mini r53 front mounted intercoolers for some ideas!
Even if the water is above ambient it'll still cool the charge though. It just needs to be colder than the charge air, which out of a turbo won't be that hard as it'll easily be near the boiling point of the water or higher. Air-water is capable of absorbinh heat about 4x faster than air-air, so simply increasing his coolant tank and maybe a larger heat exchanger would be far better than any air-air system he tries to cram into that engine bay.
TheAllSeeingPie said:
Even if the water is above ambient it'll still cool the charge though. It just needs to be colder than the charge air, which out of a turbo won't be that hard as it'll easily be near the boiling point of the water or higher. Air-water is capable of absorbinh heat about 4x faster than air-air, so simply increasing his coolant tank and maybe a larger heat exchanger would be far better than any air-air system he tries to cram into that engine bay.
I'm sorry mate but your wrong! It's been done to death in the Japanise car market with similar engines to this. Chargecoolers are great for drag racers or cars where you can't package a decent sized intercooler. Otherwise fit the biggest intercooler you can and have lower intake temps for longer!No one is saying water can not absorb more heat, but people forget you have to reject that heat also. Then you look at what's actually happening. The chargecooler is heating the water, but the water isn't coming out the chargecooler at the same temp as the boosted air. So when it gets to the HE (where the system actually rejects the heat) there is a lower temperature difference between the water and the ambient air than with an air to air intercooler (boosted air to ambient air). This further reduces the rate of heat loss to the ambient air. Then you factor in that the heat has another layer of ally to pass through (as you have two sets of radiators) and you are reducing the efficency even further.
As said, it's just not as efficient as an air to air system. The only way it can work is if you can artificially cool the water below ambient. Even then it won't keep the water cool for long and as soon as the water is above ambient than you are loosing your advantage over air to air.
Hi Eddie,
I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
AntiLagGC8 said:
Hi Eddie,
I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
Hi mate. Yeah, I know of him from his project thread on the A45 forum. He started well but I think he has maybe overstayed his welcome with some suppliers. Lots of requests for free testing in return for feedback has left a few sour grapes. Not sure if this is how he worked in the Scooby world but backs are being rubbed the wrong way with this project.I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
Eddie
AntiLagGC8 said:
Hi Eddie,
I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
That's an interesting read! Makes the car seem even more impressive. Nice how MB ramp the boost up at higher rpm to maintain the flat torque curve. Although this dose get me thinking how tuned the engine is already and how much is left. Anyone know what compression ratio the engine runs at? I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
Also can't help thinking about the V8 version of this engine. 900bhp with bolt one and a remap would be pretty impressive! Lol
chuntington101 said:
That's an interesting read! Makes the car seem even more impressive. Nice how MB ramp the boost up at higher rpm to maintain the flat torque curve. Although this dose get me thinking how tuned the engine is already and how much is left. Anyone know what compression ratio the engine runs at?
Also can't help thinking about the V8 version of this engine. 900bhp with bolt one and a remap would be pretty impressive! Lol
The 5.5 bi-turbo has already been mapped to 800+ without any bolt ons.Also can't help thinking about the V8 version of this engine. 900bhp with bolt one and a remap would be pretty impressive! Lol
ecain63 said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
Hi Eddie,
I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
Hi mate. Yeah, I know of him from his project thread on the A45 forum. He started well but I think he has maybe overstayed his welcome with some suppliers. Lots of requests for free testing in return for feedback has left a few sour grapes. Not sure if this is how he worked in the Scooby world but backs are being rubbed the wrong way with this project.I thought I'd link you to this thread on ScoobyNet of a chap who was the co-owner of the site and has been building spectacular Impreza's and his journey into tuning his A45 AMG. It's a very interesting read and he will undoubtedly push the boundaries of the car. His last Impreza was over 600bhp and won many events.
http://www.scoobynet.com/projects-40/1019943-a45-a...
Eddie
I don't know a massive amount about how the industry works other than the suppliers I've used but I've gone down a well trodden path as opposed to being first to break new ground.
I do really like the way he provides detailed technical information (like you do) on the process, that's what mainly interests me!
5potTurbo said:
OK, now Locally bought they're more than an arm and a leg €€€€€€, with not a penny discount from MB Lux. 
Don't know if I got lucky but you may get a decent discount from a Mercedes franchise dealer via carwow.co.uk. I ordered my CLA 45 not long after release date and managed to get £4k off list with a few key options added. Mind you, I had to take a train up to North to collect the car, but it gave a chance to eat into the initial 1000 mile break in period.Prior to ordering, I walked into the flagship dealer in Brentford and showed them my offer from up North, asked them to match it but they couldn't offer a single penny off.
In other news it looks like I will have to reluctantly sell mine after being forced into the dull world of company cars, and its pointless running 2 motors. So if anyone wants a nice example with over 18 months warranty, then holla!
Edited by kiparoo on Wednesday 15th July 16:32
Yeah, that would have been me. I was heading home from Shakespeare County Raceway. Been up at the RWYB event to prove the car on an official 1/4 mile strip. Luckily the car did me proud and on the 3rd run (1st run was 12.0 and 2nd run 12.5 due to oil on track) the car produced the 11.8 i was looking for. The track was pretty busy yesterday and it took 3 1/2 hours to get 3 runs in due the Kawasaki Triples constantly dropping fluids on the track between car runs. Very few got the runs they wanted yesterday.
Possibly the fasted officially timed A45 on stock turbo in the world. All with road tyres, regular fuel and full weight.
Excuse the borrowed clothing (forgot you had to have arms and legs covered so I borrowed from some bystanders lol), and the language, and the excitement. Ha!
http://vid251.photobucket.com/albums/gg306/niacuk/...
Possibly the fasted officially timed A45 on stock turbo in the world. All with road tyres, regular fuel and full weight.
Excuse the borrowed clothing (forgot you had to have arms and legs covered so I borrowed from some bystanders lol), and the language, and the excitement. Ha!
http://vid251.photobucket.com/albums/gg306/niacuk/...
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff