King of the Rank!- 51 plate Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi purchased..
Discussion
Time for another fuelling today-
602.3 miles on 47L (using a 44L WVO, 3L Derv mix). This tank included 17x 14 mile runs at Crail, after I'd remapped it.
Very pleased with that 58.3mpg, and a total fuel cost of £22.33- giving me a cost of 3.7pmile
On the run home I took it very easy- and had this as the shown average (based on the computer being 10% optimistic, I reckon a genuine 80mpg over 17 miles.
602.3 miles on 47L (using a 44L WVO, 3L Derv mix). This tank included 17x 14 mile runs at Crail, after I'd remapped it.
Very pleased with that 58.3mpg, and a total fuel cost of £22.33- giving me a cost of 3.7pmile
On the run home I took it very easy- and had this as the shown average (based on the computer being 10% optimistic, I reckon a genuine 80mpg over 17 miles.
gareth3685 said:
I get the whole economy barge thing but must confess to be slightly perplexed as to why you would drag race it? Apart from the obvious shortcomings, doesn't it just add risk to breaking something (which is fairly high based on the mileage)?
because I can
car cost so little and uses so little fuel I don't care if it breaks..
a full day drag racing (10am-4pm) can be had for £25, plus £7 fuel.
Its bloody good being aboot other car folk, and the opportunity to see a wide variety of cars.
Bluehawk said:
OP...
Don't suppose you could tell me a little bit about what's required to run a car on Vege oil?
or point me in the direction of a Handy link?
As I quite like the idea of this Vege oil diesel shed for commuting duties
It all comes down to the car you choose.Don't suppose you could tell me a little bit about what's required to run a car on Vege oil?
or point me in the direction of a Handy link?
As I quite like the idea of this Vege oil diesel shed for commuting duties
if you read the first few posts of the thread you'll see that the ALH engine that is in the Octavia from 97-2002ish is capable of running on straight WVO. Other cars may need more work.
I just buy it, filter it and bash it in the tank.
I'll pull together a more detailed post tonight if I remember
Matt106 said:
I'm not actually looking to run a veg oil car but find it interesting. I had a quick roam around Google after reading your thread and lots of people seem to have issues running it purely on WVO? I imagine it's down the the type of engine but you seem to be doing well so far.
yeah problems can be a combination of things- oil that is not properly filtered or de watered
sludging in cold weather etc
tbh I'm on a suck it and see gig here- got little enough invested in it so if it dies I can take the hit.
Over the past few months both my brother and myself have been running our Skoda Octavia Tdis on ever increasing concentrations of vegetable oil. I’m now approx 1900 miles in and suffering no ill effects as yet.
I’ve been asked on a fair few fora that I frequent for some basics re the task of running a car on veg oil- so here is my handy basic guide:
1.Older diesel engines are the best option for running on veg oil- due to their (relatively ) low fuel pressure. Modern Common Rail Diesels like the TDCI/HDI engines are less capable and are likely best run on diesel.
2.Research your car! Go to a site like (http://www.biomotors.co.uk/CarsVans.html) for details of whether your car can use it.
3.Some cars need considerable work before they will run on Veg oil- I suggest aiming for something that needs little effort.
4. Bosch fuel pumps are very good news, Lucas pumps less so.
5. Be prepared to do some prep work- both on car and fuel.
6. You can use up to 2500L of oil before needing to pay duty- see here (http://www.vegoilmotoring.com/eng/legal-stuff)
The car
Regardless of your vehicle of choice I recommend you give it a full service prior to starting to run on veg oil.
Its also worth considering pulling the in tank fuel pump and ensuring that any filter elements are clean and clear.
If your car can run it, its worth starting off at a low mix for a tank or two (20-25%) and then ramp it up. The veg cleans out the lines, and this can mean your fuel filter will block- so have some spare! The symptoms of a blocked filter include rough running, poor acceleration and pulsing power delivery. New filters for the Octavias are about £3 a pop, and take 10 mins to fit.
Please be aware that different engines can cope with different concentrations of veg oil to diesel (hence me advising starting at lower concentrations and working up)- this is down to a variety of factors including:
Fuel Supply method- fuel tank type/pump type/line diameter etc
Engine timing
Ambient temperature (the colder it is outside, the more likely the Veg oil will thicken)
For reference, the Octavias we have are both fitted with the 1.9 Tdi ALH engine in 90bhp trim- and a good barometer for VAG engines is that if the oil filler is at the LHS of the engine cover, its good for Veg Oil.
The Oil
There are two main types of veg oil:
SVO- Straight (new) Veg Oil. This is the lovely light yellow stuff you see on supermarket shelves- Its clean, needs no additional work and can be used as is. It is expensive- often 85p-£1 a litre.
The best source for it is from whatever supermarket/cash and carry that may have specials on- sometimes you can get 20L tubs for £14 or so.
WVO- Waste Veg Oil. This is oil that has been used in food preparation, and comes from businesses when they choose to change the oil in their fryers.
WVO needs to be de- watered and filtered before use- you can either buy a setup or buy some off of folk who do it (gumtree/fora are likely sources). I currently have 2 sources I’ve used-
The first supplied WVO de-watered and filtered to 5 microns at a cost of 50p per litre. It was very good quality stuff, and my use of it is only tempered by the fact that the supplier is based in Yorkshire- about 5hrs drive from my locale.
The second is a chap who offers it de- watered and filtered to 40 microns at 35p per litre. The on car filter is about 10 microns, so this WVO needs some additional work prior to being put in the tank.
To allow us to do this, we researched some options and came up with a potential solution at minimal cost.
All you need is a filtering medium, a storage device and a means of dispensing.
£18 bought the following:
1x 210L Water butt (with stand, tap, lid and filler tube)
1x Garden Riddle with 3x grading insert meshes
1x pack of coffee filters
This is what we cobbled together
1.Build up the Stand and place the water butt on top.
2.Screw in the tap (making sure the outlet is clear).
3.Fit the Riddle into the top of the Butt- we found a collar of cable ties provided the required support to avoid it falling in.
4.Place 1 of the meshes in the Riddle.
5.Line the Riddle with coffee filters.
6.Place a 2nd mesh over the top.
7.Check the tap is closed.
8.Pour the oil into the riddle and wait for it to drain through- repeat until oil is all filtered.
9.Draw off oil into fuel cans for pouring into the car tank.
£5 for a 210L water butt/stand and lid from an Associated Dairy
Genius! a 5L can fits under no bother
The Riddle Base
Different Meshs
Refined technique for supporting the filter setup
"Would you like some Cwaffee?"
Multiple Meshage
Golden goodness!
So there you have it- a simple set up to filter the oil, for very little cost. We’ll soon know how successful it has been, as my Octavia is currently running 25L of this oil alongside the 5 micron filtered stuff we already had.
I’ll keep you updated.
any questions please fire away!
*I offer no guarantees that any vehicle can be run on veg oil- anyone who chooses to do so does entirely at their own risk!*
I’ve been asked on a fair few fora that I frequent for some basics re the task of running a car on veg oil- so here is my handy basic guide:
1.Older diesel engines are the best option for running on veg oil- due to their (relatively ) low fuel pressure. Modern Common Rail Diesels like the TDCI/HDI engines are less capable and are likely best run on diesel.
2.Research your car! Go to a site like (http://www.biomotors.co.uk/CarsVans.html) for details of whether your car can use it.
3.Some cars need considerable work before they will run on Veg oil- I suggest aiming for something that needs little effort.
4. Bosch fuel pumps are very good news, Lucas pumps less so.
5. Be prepared to do some prep work- both on car and fuel.
6. You can use up to 2500L of oil before needing to pay duty- see here (http://www.vegoilmotoring.com/eng/legal-stuff)
The car
Regardless of your vehicle of choice I recommend you give it a full service prior to starting to run on veg oil.
Its also worth considering pulling the in tank fuel pump and ensuring that any filter elements are clean and clear.
If your car can run it, its worth starting off at a low mix for a tank or two (20-25%) and then ramp it up. The veg cleans out the lines, and this can mean your fuel filter will block- so have some spare! The symptoms of a blocked filter include rough running, poor acceleration and pulsing power delivery. New filters for the Octavias are about £3 a pop, and take 10 mins to fit.
Please be aware that different engines can cope with different concentrations of veg oil to diesel (hence me advising starting at lower concentrations and working up)- this is down to a variety of factors including:
Fuel Supply method- fuel tank type/pump type/line diameter etc
Engine timing
Ambient temperature (the colder it is outside, the more likely the Veg oil will thicken)
For reference, the Octavias we have are both fitted with the 1.9 Tdi ALH engine in 90bhp trim- and a good barometer for VAG engines is that if the oil filler is at the LHS of the engine cover, its good for Veg Oil.
The Oil
There are two main types of veg oil:
SVO- Straight (new) Veg Oil. This is the lovely light yellow stuff you see on supermarket shelves- Its clean, needs no additional work and can be used as is. It is expensive- often 85p-£1 a litre.
The best source for it is from whatever supermarket/cash and carry that may have specials on- sometimes you can get 20L tubs for £14 or so.
WVO- Waste Veg Oil. This is oil that has been used in food preparation, and comes from businesses when they choose to change the oil in their fryers.
WVO needs to be de- watered and filtered before use- you can either buy a setup or buy some off of folk who do it (gumtree/fora are likely sources). I currently have 2 sources I’ve used-
The first supplied WVO de-watered and filtered to 5 microns at a cost of 50p per litre. It was very good quality stuff, and my use of it is only tempered by the fact that the supplier is based in Yorkshire- about 5hrs drive from my locale.
The second is a chap who offers it de- watered and filtered to 40 microns at 35p per litre. The on car filter is about 10 microns, so this WVO needs some additional work prior to being put in the tank.
To allow us to do this, we researched some options and came up with a potential solution at minimal cost.
All you need is a filtering medium, a storage device and a means of dispensing.
£18 bought the following:
1x 210L Water butt (with stand, tap, lid and filler tube)
1x Garden Riddle with 3x grading insert meshes
1x pack of coffee filters
This is what we cobbled together
1.Build up the Stand and place the water butt on top.
2.Screw in the tap (making sure the outlet is clear).
3.Fit the Riddle into the top of the Butt- we found a collar of cable ties provided the required support to avoid it falling in.
4.Place 1 of the meshes in the Riddle.
5.Line the Riddle with coffee filters.
6.Place a 2nd mesh over the top.
7.Check the tap is closed.
8.Pour the oil into the riddle and wait for it to drain through- repeat until oil is all filtered.
9.Draw off oil into fuel cans for pouring into the car tank.
£5 for a 210L water butt/stand and lid from an Associated Dairy
Genius! a 5L can fits under no bother
The Riddle Base
Different Meshs
Refined technique for supporting the filter setup
"Would you like some Cwaffee?"
Multiple Meshage
Golden goodness!
So there you have it- a simple set up to filter the oil, for very little cost. We’ll soon know how successful it has been, as my Octavia is currently running 25L of this oil alongside the 5 micron filtered stuff we already had.
I’ll keep you updated.
any questions please fire away!
*I offer no guarantees that any vehicle can be run on veg oil- anyone who chooses to do so does entirely at their own risk!*
I've been focusing in the wrong area on this car for a wee while- time to get back to basics!
I bought this car primarily for its economy- so time to look at maximising the MPG. Currently the car is remapped for HP/torque, but done in such a way that low loads mean that it performs almost like stock.
For this tank I intend to see how well I can do on the current map whilst commuting to work. The route is 24 miles each way, of which 3 miles are town driving, 4 are A road and 17 are Motorway (the m80 near Glasgow).
I commute at peak times, and have encountered some tailbacks on every journey.
Here's a look at what I've achieved so far- looking at my initial and latest runs.
Monday Morning- 62.28mpg (51.86 US) actual (allowing for 10%over read on obc)
Monday evening-58.14mpg (48.41US)
AVERAGE= 60.21mpg (50.14US)
Wednesday Morning- 64.17mpg (53.43US)
Wednesday Evening- 63.27mpg (52.68US)
AVERAGE= 63.72mpg (53.06US)
Heading in the right direction at least
I bought this car primarily for its economy- so time to look at maximising the MPG. Currently the car is remapped for HP/torque, but done in such a way that low loads mean that it performs almost like stock.
For this tank I intend to see how well I can do on the current map whilst commuting to work. The route is 24 miles each way, of which 3 miles are town driving, 4 are A road and 17 are Motorway (the m80 near Glasgow).
I commute at peak times, and have encountered some tailbacks on every journey.
Here's a look at what I've achieved so far- looking at my initial and latest runs.
Monday Morning- 62.28mpg (51.86 US) actual (allowing for 10%over read on obc)
Monday evening-58.14mpg (48.41US)
AVERAGE= 60.21mpg (50.14US)
Wednesday Morning- 64.17mpg (53.43US)
Wednesday Evening- 63.27mpg (52.68US)
AVERAGE= 63.72mpg (53.06US)
Heading in the right direction at least
The Spruce goose said:
Looking at The oil you are using you are not increasing the visoicty which is generally why modern engines cannot run SVO, the fuel injections/pump being the weak points, the engine can run on oil.
I would think the summer is helping you but come to winter without any change to visocity, i.e a solvent, i can see you struggling at the concentrations you want to run in winter.
yep you are quite right! winter running will likely be on a blend of WVO/Diesel and possibly Petrol.I would think the summer is helping you but come to winter without any change to visocity, i.e a solvent, i can see you struggling at the concentrations you want to run in winter.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Thursday 13th August 04:36
The petrol will thin the oil a bit, and the diesel has the anti-sludging chemical which could be useful.
Likely start out at a 70% WVO/15% Diesel/15% petrol blend and see.
I may also consider working out how to heat the fuel filter using the coolant to help as well.
Took the Octavia to head to my mother's birthday shindig yesterday.
Approaching a queue of traffic on the m74, the brakes felt odd.
300 yards later on the sliproad and I had no footbrake to speak of.
mildly troublesome.
I ditched it and went about my business with a few swears.
Today I managed to get a look- and it looks like a rear wheel cylinder has failed comprehensively.
luckily a local parts emporium had replacements in stock- so I purchased 2 and some brake fluid.
I'll replace both I think as it was not a pleasant experience
Approaching a queue of traffic on the m74, the brakes felt odd.
300 yards later on the sliproad and I had no footbrake to speak of.
mildly troublesome.
I ditched it and went about my business with a few swears.
Today I managed to get a look- and it looks like a rear wheel cylinder has failed comprehensively.
luckily a local parts emporium had replacements in stock- so I purchased 2 and some brake fluid.
I'll replace both I think as it was not a pleasant experience
Got the calcs completed for the first week of commuting.
Covered 242 miles, averaged 63.04pmg (52.49US), at 35p per litre, its an average of £1.22 per day in fuel.
Even adding on car tax, insurance and servicing, plus parking costs the total commute average was £3.70 per day.
A day return ticket is £12.30 on the train, and a weekly pass is £50.60
So I'm saving £8.60 over a day ticket or £32.10 over a weekly pass
Covered 242 miles, averaged 63.04pmg (52.49US), at 35p per litre, its an average of £1.22 per day in fuel.
Even adding on car tax, insurance and servicing, plus parking costs the total commute average was £3.70 per day.
A day return ticket is £12.30 on the train, and a weekly pass is £50.60
So I'm saving £8.60 over a day ticket or £32.10 over a weekly pass
My Octavia ALH manual has been re-mapped by myself. I saw a 1.2 second reduction in 1/4 mile times, and about 1 sec drop in 0-60mph.
However, my 60ft times didnt really improve.
I reckon it was a combination of the car being mapped for 200ft/lb from 1500rpm, and really crap tyres on the front.
As I read more into the mapping software, it became apparent that you could create a launch control map- essentially limiting the level of fuelling available at a standstill, then phasing in more as the car got underway.
I had a try at doing it tonight, and it makes a helluva difference: launches are consistent with minimal wheelspin.
Feels a bit odd to go foot flat to the floor with the clutch down, and only have it rev to 1600ish
the real trial will be in the rain!
Stock map (I.E. no Launch Control)
Modified map
However, my 60ft times didnt really improve.
I reckon it was a combination of the car being mapped for 200ft/lb from 1500rpm, and really crap tyres on the front.
As I read more into the mapping software, it became apparent that you could create a launch control map- essentially limiting the level of fuelling available at a standstill, then phasing in more as the car got underway.
I had a try at doing it tonight, and it makes a helluva difference: launches are consistent with minimal wheelspin.
Feels a bit odd to go foot flat to the floor with the clutch down, and only have it rev to 1600ish
the real trial will be in the rain!
Stock map (I.E. no Launch Control)
Modified map
Minor update on this today- Got to the bottom of the rattling noise from the boot area, even when empty- a good few shells and other assorted stuff in the spare wheel well. Cheeky shotgun shell too?
Stripped down the other rear drum and got the Wheel Cylinder swapped over- Glad to have some peace of mind, and would have been rude not to as new ones were £8 each
Also got the sock filters for the WVO set up, 10micron on the Right, 5 Micron on the left
The bottle on the right contains the oil as bought, the bottle on the left is after the 10 micron filter- good improvement
Stripped down the other rear drum and got the Wheel Cylinder swapped over- Glad to have some peace of mind, and would have been rude not to as new ones were £8 each
Also got the sock filters for the WVO set up, 10micron on the Right, 5 Micron on the left
The bottle on the right contains the oil as bought, the bottle on the left is after the 10 micron filter- good improvement
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