1975 Triumph Dolomite Sprint
Discussion
v8250 said:
Breadvan72 said:
v8250 said:
Nice pics, BV72. Every time I see the Town Hall I feel as though I should pop into Newitt's for their sausages and award winning pies; did you...?
Not at just after 7AM on a Sunday I didn't!Pevsner describes Thame Town hall thus:
"TOWN HALL. 1888 by HJ Tollitt. A feeble design in Jacobethan style. The position in the centre of the High Street calls for something grander."
Harsh, but fair!
Who knows, this may even start a classic's trend...your classic and
carinaman said:
What's the car on the RH border of the photo?
Dunno, didn't notice. It was 6AM, nadger cold, and I wanted to head back for tea and buns. The supermoon was obscured by cloud, and there was a lot of morning mist about in patches. I revised my view of the dipped beams - they are a bit rubbish. They do that proper Lucas thing of fading and brightening according to engine revs, and they make for a highly effective speed limiter even on non foggy dark roads. Full beams just bounce off fog, so I groped along some country lanes seeing not much. I have set the thermostat on the Kenlowe to just over 90, but the car is still tending to run cool, so what with that and the rear screen demister being on and off, the internal demisting is a bit rubbish at present.At once point I thought that I had blown one of the two fuses (yes, this car has just two fuses - whereas my XJS has approx 97 fuses) as the tacho, fuel and temperature gauges, indicators and wipers all stopped working (this will have meant no brake lights either), but they all came on again a minute or so later. Spooooooooky. Prodding at the wiring near the fusebox later produced only the usual "oh look, there are some wires, connected to some other wires, how interesting" effect on the non electrically minded.
Poisson96 said:
Liking the Town Hall idea......watch this space
I think a Dolomite I'd like would be Yellow. Or Purple.
Moscow!I think a Dolomite I'd like would be Yellow. Or Purple.
The purple Dollies are indeed ace. There are two yellows. Mine is Mimosa, the other yellow is Inca. Originally all Sprints were Mimosa. The dealer would say that you could have a Sprint in yellow and black, or in black and yellow. Later available in brown, purple, red, white, dark blue, green, IIRC. Never in black: only 1500 SEs (a run out model from 1980 ish) came in black.
There are some fake Sprints about. Check with DVLA, but other ways to tell if a so called Sprint is a real Sprint -
1. Does it have a vinyl roof? It should have, although some real ones have lost theirs.
2. It should have five dials and a pizza pie chart (Triumph's nifty "all systems go" indicator), but an 1850 has the same, and the same steering wheel.
3. Does it have a chunkier rear axle and differential than a non Sprinty Dolomite? This is the real killer question - put a Sprint engine into a non Sprint and the diff and axle are not up to the job. The engine itself should be on a slant (1300 and 1500s have an inline four, 1850s and Sprints a slant four). It should have a prominent cam cover usually painted black or red, and the plugs should be seated in deep recesses with rubber sheaths around the leads.
4. Hard to tell with wheels on, but are the rear brake drums bigger than normal?
5. Does it go like a Basildon girl on payday? It should!
In Sprint World, there are two schools of thought about brakes. One is that the Sprint was under braked because it was built to a budget with whatever bits were available from other sporty Triumphs. The other is that the brakes are perfectly adequate for a standard Sprint driven in a non Tiff Nedell stylee. I am of the latter opinion. but I drive like a wuss.
All Dolomites are good cars, as are Toledos and 1300s, but if going for a Dolly I suggest getting an 1850 HL or a Sprint if you can find a good one. I think that I have found a good one. My mechanic says that my car buying skills are improving. Practice, I suppose.
1970s demisting is, er a bit pants, but I already knew that. Worry not, that is water vapour, not smoke, as the morning was cold and damp. Note also feeble tail lights in fog (no rear fog lamps). Note lastly that someone had an unduly Happy Hallowe'en, it appears.
I have been exploring the wet and dry handling of the Dolly. It understeers a bit, which I believe is fairly normal. It tightens up well if you apply power smoothly from the apex of a corner. It is a tad skittery on a wet road, and will dance about a bit if you push hard out of a junction or very tight bend in second gear. It is quite a little flyer on twisty A and B roads. It will easily pull up to licence endangering speeds on the motorway.
I have been exploring the wet and dry handling of the Dolly. It understeers a bit, which I believe is fairly normal. It tightens up well if you apply power smoothly from the apex of a corner. It is a tad skittery on a wet road, and will dance about a bit if you push hard out of a junction or very tight bend in second gear. It is quite a little flyer on twisty A and B roads. It will easily pull up to licence endangering speeds on the motorway.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd November 13:59
Bazonkers! I am a big fan of quarter lights, but I eschewed the sheepskin coat and opted for a ski jacket, gloves, no hat. I opened the sunroof when it got a bit brighter. I do have a cool 1970s Connolly leather double breasted driving coat that I used to wear a lot when I had a Jensen, but it could do just as well for the Dolly, Excel, and XJS.
The only yellow one around South Oxon/Bucks that I know of lives in Risborough. I have seen another yellow one fuelling up at Chinnor (tut, tut, ordinary BP, but should be V-Power for a Sprint).
LHD Dollies were sold in France and the Netherlands, IIRC. There may be a dark blue LHD Sprint for sale in Poland, thought to be the only one there. My squeeze is Polish, and I have suggested that she buys the car and keeps it at her family's country shack near Krakow, but so far she is demurring.
LHD Dollies were sold in France and the Netherlands, IIRC. There may be a dark blue LHD Sprint for sale in Poland, thought to be the only one there. My squeeze is Polish, and I have suggested that she buys the car and keeps it at her family's country shack near Krakow, but so far she is demurring.
I have noticed that pretty much as soon as a Sprint appears on carandclassic, it sells. The Sprint's hour appears to have arrived. This is partly because other classics of the era are now very spenner - a BMW 2002 tii for example will cost about three times the price of a Sprint. It may also reflect the fact that those Sprints that survive, like many Stags, are now the cars that they should have been when new, having been tweaked to get rid of the BL build quality issues. It used to be standard pub wisdom that every Sprint would boil itself and warp its cylinder head in a thrice, but nowadays the engine tends to be screwed together better, and the cooling system improved. My Sprint runs too cool at the moment, so the heater is even more rubbish than usual.
1 HP, pretty hot ship!
There is a youtube somewhere of a Dolly Sprint racing and winning against more modern cars (including a Honda S2000) in a Netherlands race series from a few years ago, although I do not know what sort of tweaks that Sprint has had.
One or more of the quite successful BL Team Sprints usually shows up at events such as Goodwood. I seem to recall that Mansell had an early drive in one of the BL Sprints, but I might be making that up.
There is a youtube somewhere of a Dolly Sprint racing and winning against more modern cars (including a Honda S2000) in a Netherlands race series from a few years ago, although I do not know what sort of tweaks that Sprint has had.
One or more of the quite successful BL Team Sprints usually shows up at events such as Goodwood. I seem to recall that Mansell had an early drive in one of the BL Sprints, but I might be making that up.
Thanks, that jogs the memory, and, yes that Dutch dude is the guy I was thinking of. Pretty rapid, from the looks of the video, and there is one from inside the Honda that shows the Dolly getting past the Honda at some point.
I see that the F3 version of the engine has fuel injection. Triumph, probably correctly, did not try that on the road car, as at that time the early injection system used on the TR sports cars and the big saloon was proving a bit troublesome, I gather.
I see that the F3 version of the engine has fuel injection. Triumph, probably correctly, did not try that on the road car, as at that time the early injection system used on the TR sports cars and the big saloon was proving a bit troublesome, I gather.
That is the standard story, but in Matthew Vale's book on the Dolomite, he says that the 135 name was dropped because Triumph switched to the DIN system for measuring power output, which resulted in a number 5 per cent lower than would have been the case using the previous method. I have no idea which of these is true, as neither version is traced to a verifiable source.
I would not be surprised if the former story was the right one, because one of BL's major problem was old and worn tools. Lord Stokes was (a) an idiot, (b) knew nothing about engineering, and (c) favoured short term gain over long term investment (this, and not trade union militancy, was arguably the core industrial malaise of the UK in the 1970s). My late father told the story of a visit to a 1970s BL production line by engineers and managers from Honda, who asked how often the line was retooled. The answer was that it had been retooled after the War, whereas Honda at that time was re tooling every eight years.
Another of my father's anecdotes concerned watching a worker doing a factory devised bodge to fit some components to Marinas (possibly something to do with the front suspension, I can't recall exactly which bits). The parts as made were so out of whack that a work around had been jury rigged on the line to get the parts to fit. My dad observed that the bodge would fail once placed under load. The worker said that he realised this, but the guys on the line had been told that they had to get the cars out to the dealers ASAP, and the dealers would deal with the problem under warranty. This, my dad inferred, would place the figures on the right bit of the right balance sheet and give the illusion that things were OK.
I note, however, that outside BL manufacturers were quite prepared to tell fibs about power ratings. For example Lotus sold the big valve variant of the Elan Plus Two as a 130, meaning that the 1600 twin cam engine developed 130 BHP, but in fact it developed 125 BHP. NB Lotus telling fibs NB Colin Chapman, need I say more! I vaguely recall Vauxhall doing something similar, but am not sure about that.
I mention this because it could possibly reinforce the Vale version of events. BL marketers were about as scrupulous as other marketers at the time, which is to say not very, and might have had little difficulty in badging the Sprint as a 130 or 135 if they had wanted to, regardless of real power outputs from production cars, if the problem had simply been that the power ratings were inconsistent. They would have said, well, you got that one over there to do 135, so that means that they all do. The engineers on the test rigs got the engine to 150 BHP*, but they were probably building it carefully by hand.
* Allegedly while Spen King was on his hollies and/or on a spying mission in northern Italy. He was mildly pissed off when he got back as he hadn't told the team to do that.
I would not be surprised if the former story was the right one, because one of BL's major problem was old and worn tools. Lord Stokes was (a) an idiot, (b) knew nothing about engineering, and (c) favoured short term gain over long term investment (this, and not trade union militancy, was arguably the core industrial malaise of the UK in the 1970s). My late father told the story of a visit to a 1970s BL production line by engineers and managers from Honda, who asked how often the line was retooled. The answer was that it had been retooled after the War, whereas Honda at that time was re tooling every eight years.
Another of my father's anecdotes concerned watching a worker doing a factory devised bodge to fit some components to Marinas (possibly something to do with the front suspension, I can't recall exactly which bits). The parts as made were so out of whack that a work around had been jury rigged on the line to get the parts to fit. My dad observed that the bodge would fail once placed under load. The worker said that he realised this, but the guys on the line had been told that they had to get the cars out to the dealers ASAP, and the dealers would deal with the problem under warranty. This, my dad inferred, would place the figures on the right bit of the right balance sheet and give the illusion that things were OK.
I note, however, that outside BL manufacturers were quite prepared to tell fibs about power ratings. For example Lotus sold the big valve variant of the Elan Plus Two as a 130, meaning that the 1600 twin cam engine developed 130 BHP, but in fact it developed 125 BHP. NB Lotus telling fibs NB Colin Chapman, need I say more! I vaguely recall Vauxhall doing something similar, but am not sure about that.
I mention this because it could possibly reinforce the Vale version of events. BL marketers were about as scrupulous as other marketers at the time, which is to say not very, and might have had little difficulty in badging the Sprint as a 130 or 135 if they had wanted to, regardless of real power outputs from production cars, if the problem had simply been that the power ratings were inconsistent. They would have said, well, you got that one over there to do 135, so that means that they all do. The engineers on the test rigs got the engine to 150 BHP*, but they were probably building it carefully by hand.
* Allegedly while Spen King was on his hollies and/or on a spying mission in northern Italy. He was mildly pissed off when he got back as he hadn't told the team to do that.
For my father, the words Lord Stokes were dirty words. Michael Edwardes was my dad's business hero. There is a recently published book about BL that is worth a look.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Leyland-Motor-Corp...
Also, words from the man himself
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Brink-Sir-Michael-Edw...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Leyland-Motor-Corp...
Also, words from the man himself
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Brink-Sir-Michael-Edw...
As this is a Dolly thread, here is something what I done wrote on the "buy some old POS for not much money" thread in General Gassing:-
The Dolly Sprint is a curious car, and very, very BL. The basic Dolly was already an old design when Triumph devised a twin carb slant four engine for the 1850 (this being the engine that, as Lowtimer observes, eventually ended up becoming the Saab turbo engine of PH renown). The slant four allowed a low bonnet line (see also the Lotus 900 series of engines, perfect for wedgy sports cars). Then Triumph showed BL engineering genius at its best when they beefed up the engine and devised the SOHC 16 valve head for the Sprint (inlet valves on the cam, exhaust valves on rockers). Elegant engineering, saving weight and size, although adding moving parts.
This clever engine, that was given a gong by the Design Council, was given rather ordinary SU carbs rather than something fancy and Webber or Dellorto ish, and had to be fitted to whatever gearbox, diff and (live) rear axle could be afforded; so bits of TR 6 and 2500 were cobbled together to make the Sprint's drive train, and it made do with slightly upgunned self adjusting drum brakes on the back and OK ish disc brakes on the front. Like the similarly live-axled and rear-drummed Rover SD1, the Sprint handles and stops better than you think it should, although some in Dolly World claim that the rear brakes are only there for show, as the car nose dives on its front brakes when you need to slow down a bit.
The car was penned by Michelotti, and, apart from the truly awful Reliant SS1, he rarely drew a dog. It was, however, rather sixties in appearance - upright, narrow, and three boxy. In typical BL excessive product life stylee, it had to stagger on to 1980, and was not always well built, because the factory blokes were under bad management and were sometimes stroppy, as the unions surged into the vacant space left by crap managers.
Nowadays a good Sprint is a good thing indeed (so good that I bought myself one for a price within the budget of this thread, and do not regret doing so). I have driven a BMW 2002 tii, and agree with reviewers who said that the Sprint is just slightly the better car of the two, but at the time the Beemer cost a huge chunk more than the Sprint, and now the Beemer goes for three times the price of its Coventry rival. Guess who owns the Triumph name nowadays? BMW, of course, so Triumph's a brand that ain't ever coming back, I reckon.
The Dolly Sprint is a curious car, and very, very BL. The basic Dolly was already an old design when Triumph devised a twin carb slant four engine for the 1850 (this being the engine that, as Lowtimer observes, eventually ended up becoming the Saab turbo engine of PH renown). The slant four allowed a low bonnet line (see also the Lotus 900 series of engines, perfect for wedgy sports cars). Then Triumph showed BL engineering genius at its best when they beefed up the engine and devised the SOHC 16 valve head for the Sprint (inlet valves on the cam, exhaust valves on rockers). Elegant engineering, saving weight and size, although adding moving parts.
This clever engine, that was given a gong by the Design Council, was given rather ordinary SU carbs rather than something fancy and Webber or Dellorto ish, and had to be fitted to whatever gearbox, diff and (live) rear axle could be afforded; so bits of TR 6 and 2500 were cobbled together to make the Sprint's drive train, and it made do with slightly upgunned self adjusting drum brakes on the back and OK ish disc brakes on the front. Like the similarly live-axled and rear-drummed Rover SD1, the Sprint handles and stops better than you think it should, although some in Dolly World claim that the rear brakes are only there for show, as the car nose dives on its front brakes when you need to slow down a bit.
The car was penned by Michelotti, and, apart from the truly awful Reliant SS1, he rarely drew a dog. It was, however, rather sixties in appearance - upright, narrow, and three boxy. In typical BL excessive product life stylee, it had to stagger on to 1980, and was not always well built, because the factory blokes were under bad management and were sometimes stroppy, as the unions surged into the vacant space left by crap managers.
Nowadays a good Sprint is a good thing indeed (so good that I bought myself one for a price within the budget of this thread, and do not regret doing so). I have driven a BMW 2002 tii, and agree with reviewers who said that the Sprint is just slightly the better car of the two, but at the time the Beemer cost a huge chunk more than the Sprint, and now the Beemer goes for three times the price of its Coventry rival. Guess who owns the Triumph name nowadays? BMW, of course, so Triumph's a brand that ain't ever coming back, I reckon.
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