Capri GTT... V10, 550bhp
Discussion
Not done huge progress as I did my back in tiling the utility room and have been struggling to actually stand up let alone do anything meaningful.
I have been trying to nail down the colour the car will be... My Wife always wanted a yellow capri, so I really want a pearl to make it 'pop' against the exposed carbon.
I managed to get hold of a lambo yellow that a liked (but it wasn't a pearl) and also a 3 stage TVR pearl yellow and I did a test spray out of each along with a pearl orange that I already had... the Lambo yellow was stunning an exactly what I wanted but it didn't have the pearl 'pop' i wanted.... the TVR 'poped' fanatically, but it was too tangerine in some directions/light.... I tried the pearl over the Lambo yellow which made it 'pop' but turned it to a mustard colour which we did not like.
So I was back on the search and I managed to find another colour which was similar yellow to the lambo but was a 3 stage pearl.... sprayed this out and it was absolutely perfect.
I have also spent some time reshaping the window returns, I didn't like the metal moulds around the glass of the side windows, so I have temporary filled them with filler and shaped them. I put masking tape down so that the filler will remove easily what I have taken moulds. I will then have the option to have these returns painted or lacquered raw carbon.
I also started filling the holes in the drivers door and rectifying the odd small dent ready for me to take moulds... not 100% sure what design of door handle I am going to have, however it is going to be flush and 'hidden'.
Anyhow over to the pics.... car is starting to look very multi coloured due to all the quick test sprays lol
I have been trying to nail down the colour the car will be... My Wife always wanted a yellow capri, so I really want a pearl to make it 'pop' against the exposed carbon.
I managed to get hold of a lambo yellow that a liked (but it wasn't a pearl) and also a 3 stage TVR pearl yellow and I did a test spray out of each along with a pearl orange that I already had... the Lambo yellow was stunning an exactly what I wanted but it didn't have the pearl 'pop' i wanted.... the TVR 'poped' fanatically, but it was too tangerine in some directions/light.... I tried the pearl over the Lambo yellow which made it 'pop' but turned it to a mustard colour which we did not like.
So I was back on the search and I managed to find another colour which was similar yellow to the lambo but was a 3 stage pearl.... sprayed this out and it was absolutely perfect.
I have also spent some time reshaping the window returns, I didn't like the metal moulds around the glass of the side windows, so I have temporary filled them with filler and shaped them. I put masking tape down so that the filler will remove easily what I have taken moulds. I will then have the option to have these returns painted or lacquered raw carbon.
I also started filling the holes in the drivers door and rectifying the odd small dent ready for me to take moulds... not 100% sure what design of door handle I am going to have, however it is going to be flush and 'hidden'.
Anyhow over to the pics.... car is starting to look very multi coloured due to all the quick test sprays lol
Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 27th March 12:53
Max_Torque said:
Are you keeping the std EMS / SMG trans? or converting to manual and an aftermarket ecu etc?
Well that is a very good question.I have been planning to have a go at getting the SMG 7 speed running on a all new module... I am going to use a manual clutch so it will 'just' be the change thats needed and I would have incorporated it into an H pattern switch module.... the box have 6 solenoids and its now hydraulic system so is pretty self contained.
Fall back position is to buy a box from the V8 M3 which bolts straight on and was actually used in the M5 as a manual in the states.
All the 'experts' are saying that the 7 speed smg isn't possible to get working stand alone with stupid spend.... but I have heard that before quite a few times... I'm not going to spend and significant money trying to get it working as the M3 boxes are quite cheap.
Engine wise I am going a tried and test route of using a cheap tornado... it comes complete with map and modify my loom and runs everything I need in a self contained package... its far from a perfect package for the engine, but its £2k all in including map loom and is plug and play and they have sold around 40 units for this engine so its as well proven as anything.
I would have preferred to have worked with the original engine and gearbox ecus etc... but i got quotes from companies that have done it and they want £6.5k upwards not including providing any hardware at all.... as I have the entire M5 at my disposal this was the way I thought I was going to go originally... plus I wanted to use the clocks from the M5 as they are very nice.... but Im not spending that kind of money on it.
The 7 speed SMG3 box in the M5 uses a "drop on" mechatronics unit that operates the 4 shift rods directly. I think, but i haven't confirmed it, that the (CNC'd from billet rather than cast ally) mechatronics part used for the SMG is a direct replacement for a manual shift unit/top cover, that bolts on in the same way and actuates the shifter rods when you move the lever. In effect, the manual box is the same box?
If you were going to swap to a manually operated clutch, then just switching the control solenoids to pop the appropriate selector rail back n' forth isn't difficult at all. I was looking at using an SMG3 mechatronics unit (or rather the pressure control solenoids and pistons/ position sensor) for another application a while back......
If you were going to swap to a manually operated clutch, then just switching the control solenoids to pop the appropriate selector rail back n' forth isn't difficult at all. I was looking at using an SMG3 mechatronics unit (or rather the pressure control solenoids and pistons/ position sensor) for another application a while back......
Think there's a member on here called S62 who used to run a forced induction S50 motor in his E30 race car but is currently in the process of changing to an S85. Think I recall him mentioning something about all the standalone "it can't be done" comments being b
ks, and it actually being fairly easy.
-E
Found it, turns out I was wrong- it was about fitting the M-DCT box to the S85.
ks, and it actually being fairly easy.-E
Found it, turns out I was wrong- it was about fitting the M-DCT box to the S85.
Max_Torque said:
The 7 speed SMG3 box in the M5 uses a "drop on" mechatronics unit that operates the 4 shift rods directly. I think, but i haven't confirmed it, that the (CNC'd from billet rather than cast ally) mechatronics part used for the SMG is a direct replacement for a manual shift unit/top cover, that bolts on in the same way and actuates the shifter rods when you move the lever. In effect, the manual box is the same box?
If you were going to swap to a manually operated clutch, then just switching the control solenoids to pop the appropriate selector rail back n' forth isn't difficult at all. I was looking at using an SMG3 mechatronics unit (or rather the pressure control solenoids and pistons/ position sensor) for another application a while back......
Very interesting what you say about the shift unit, i have not stripped mine but I was told the box was built to be sequential and thus the positions of the gears do not translate to an H pattern and you would be shifting all over the box. be great if i could simply bolt the gearshift on lol.If you were going to swap to a manually operated clutch, then just switching the control solenoids to pop the appropriate selector rail back n' forth isn't difficult at all. I was looking at using an SMG3 mechatronics unit (or rather the pressure control solenoids and pistons/ position sensor) for another application a while back......
Do you have any advice were to look of who to speak to for getting a module to move the solenoids, I'm a bit of an electrical novice who just thinks it must be easy for someone who knows what they are doing lol.
andygtt said:
Very interesting what you say about the shift unit, i have not stripped mine but I was told the box was built to be sequential and thus the positions of the gears do not translate to an H pattern and you would be shifting all over the box. be great if i could simply bolt the gearshift on lol.
Do you have any advice were to look of who to speak to for getting a module to move the solenoids, I'm a bit of an electrical novice who just thinks it must be easy for someone who knows what they are doing lol.
TBH, i haven't looked at the rod assignment. There is a good chance that if it was designed as an automated manual then the assignment will be uneven, ie 1,3,5,7 and 6,4,2,R as that makes for easy control logic and shift overlap. However, the shift rods are linked to the bauk rings by the selector forks, and so you may find that it is these that change between the manual version and the SMGDo you have any advice were to look of who to speak to for getting a module to move the solenoids, I'm a bit of an electrical novice who just thinks it must be easy for someone who knows what they are doing lol.
iirc, there are 6 solenoids, the rear 2 are the shift pressure controllers which set how much hydraulic pressure is applied to the shift pistons and the front 4 are the shift sequencers, which apply that controlled pressure to the correct end of the correct shift piston.
That means the pressure control solenoids are probably closed loop current controlled as a minimum (is there a hydraulic pressure sensor?) but the sequencers may just be ON/OFF (they are probably centre closed sprung, needing current applied in two directions to operate.
There is also a hall effect rod position sensor, that reads the current position of the shift rods, and the hydraulic pump to be controlled and probably an input and output shaft speed sensor. A quick look inside the std trans controller would tell you a lot about how things are being driven.
If you wanted to use a different controller, you'd need a 6 H bridge outputs (probably 3A continous, 5A peak (ish) and some High side outputs to switch the hyd pump etc. Then two frequency inputs and 6 or so analogue inputs. Most ECU developers have modules like this used by people for body and chassis control systems. The issue will be the cost to write the code and test it etc!
The thing that makes me think the box is a conventional box with automation added is the fact that the mechatronics unit is housed in a nice CNC'd cover plate, but the rest of the box is conventional mass produced high pressure cast alluminium:
This makes me think the SMG shifters are an addition to the basic design of the gearbox!
(low production volumes of M5's mean it wasn't cost effective to tool up to cast this piece!)
This makes me think the SMG shifters are an addition to the basic design of the gearbox!
(low production volumes of M5's mean it wasn't cost effective to tool up to cast this piece!)
Transmission info here:
M5_SMG_PDF
"SMG" only apparently, so no shift mech available to re-order gate to accept a lever (but of course you could machine something yourself....)
Also some details of hydraulics / control etc
M5_SMG_PDF
"SMG" only apparently, so no shift mech available to re-order gate to accept a lever (but of course you could machine something yourself....)
Also some details of hydraulics / control etc
I have the gearbox ecu and everything for it, not sure its easily or cheaply usable.
I have not stripped the controller off yet to have a look... I have read from the online 'experts' that this is neither a sequential or a conventional H pattern box and thus you can't just slap a shifter on it.
Saying that people have found ways to convert mechanically an H pattern to sequential so it can't be 'that' hard. Just depends how much force it actually takes to change the gear or hold them in gear.
What makes me think that this is the case is that BMW didn't this box as a manual in any car or iteration... instead they fitted the 6 speed from the V8 M3.
I have not stripped the controller off yet to have a look... I have read from the online 'experts' that this is neither a sequential or a conventional H pattern box and thus you can't just slap a shifter on it.
Saying that people have found ways to convert mechanically an H pattern to sequential so it can't be 'that' hard. Just depends how much force it actually takes to change the gear or hold them in gear.
What makes me think that this is the case is that BMW didn't this box as a manual in any car or iteration... instead they fitted the 6 speed from the V8 M3.
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