Capri GTT... V10, 550bhp

[PhillipM]

andygtt said:

I have 2 of the M5s, the black one failed and was not cost effective to repair, so I took the engine out and started building a Capri around it.. I bought another to replace it and that has just failed, vanos solenoids, these are a wear item and there are 4 of them unique to the E60 M5 V10.... On 1st July this year BMW put the price of these up from £82 plus vat each to £870 plus vat each.

So to fix just one tiny usually cheap element it's £4K and they are a know poor design apparently.... This has tainted me using this unit.

A V10 from breakers is £5k ish

I machined some pulleys and new covers up for the racer for that reason, just removed the VANOS completely.

[andygtt]

PhillipM said:

andygtt said:

I have 2 of the M5s, the black one failed and was not cost effective to repair, so I took the engine out and started building a Capri around it.. I bought another to replace it and that has just failed, vanos solenoids, these are a wear item and there are 4 of them unique to the E60 M5 V10.... On 1st July this year BMW put the price of these up from £82 plus vat each to £870 plus vat each.

So to fix just one tiny usually cheap element it's £4K and they are a know poor design apparently.... This has tainted me using this unit.

A V10 from breakers is £5k ish

I machined some pulleys and new covers up for the racer for that reason, just removed the VANOS completely.

I am very interested in your experiences as this was another option, im guessing you locked the cams in high rpm timing.... What was the low down power like, was it massively down on power?
After all my Capri will be 800kgs lighter with a manual box.

[irocfan]

HughG said:

irocfan said:

This ^^^ The thing is there have been loads of custom/racing V6 Capris (and in terms of the racing ones at least with more power than you are likely to achieve), a V10 though....

Have you seen the thread of his 700hp Noble?

ok - I didn't realise the bit about the 700hp Noble I thought that as the factory racers were duking it out with 800hp Porkers they'd be on a similar hp scale. Turns out they were only 500.... from a 1.7! The basic point is though that V6 Capris are around, rarer are V8s of varying flavours I would have thought that a V10 would be unique though (that being said I just read the bit about the price of one of the consumables going up 10 fold OVERNIGHT

[davepoth]

irocfan said:

ok - I didn't realise the bit about the 700hp Noble I thought that as the factory racers were duking it out with 800hp Porkers they'd be on a similar hp scale. Turns out they were only 500.... from a 1.7! The basic point is though that V6 Capris are around, rarer are V8s of varying flavours I would have thought that a V10 would be unique though (that being said I just read the bit about the price of one of the consumables going up 10 fold OVERNIGHT

Makes sense I guess. They'll have laid down a load from stock when the cars were being produced, but those have probably run out now and they have to buy them in small quantities now.

[PhillipM]

andygtt said:

I am very interested in your experiences as this was another option, im guessing you locked the cams in high rpm timing.... What was the low down power like, was it massively down on power?
After all my Capri will be 800kgs lighter with a manual box.

It did bog a little bit at the bottom end, needed a good clutch kick to launch it, but bear in mind it was running through 4wd and probably heavier than yours would be? (Weighted to 1240kg for competition in france).
Running it the other way lost shedloads of top end though so it wasn't worth locking in the low rpm timing.

Mind, 5 litres doesn't tend to bog too much anyway

[Zombie]

PhillipM said:

It did bog a little bit at the bottom end, needed a good clutch kick to launch it, but bear in mind it was running through 4wd and probably heavier than yours would be? (Weighted to 1240kg for competition in france).
Running it the other way lost shedloads of top end though so it wasn't worth locking in the low rpm timing.

Mind, 5 litres doesn't tend to bog too much anyway

I read through Andy's Noble thread a while back (awesome work) but you've now got me wondering what you're running a BMW v10 in? Link?

[PhillipM]

Ah, it was a build with a friend of mine, spaceframed rally/safari car.

[eliot]

I wonder what actually goes wrong with the solenoids? electrical or mechanical failure? Sounds like an opportunity to repair them. Anyone got a faulty one handy?

[andygtt]

eliot said:

I wonder what actually goes wrong with the solenoids? electrical or mechanical failure? Sounds like an opportunity to repair them. Anyone got a faulty one handy?

It's usually mechanical, as they run metal on metal internally and run high pressure..... Lots of talk of finding someone who can repair or rebuild the solenoids, they are nothing special apparently, probably cost pence to produce lol

[PhillipM]

eliot said:

I wonder what actually goes wrong with the solenoids? electrical or mechanical failure? Sounds like an opportunity to repair them. Anyone got a faulty one handy?

AS Andy says, mechanical, they're like a vane type pump inside, easy to see why they struggle with wear when you split them - somewhat resemble a torque converter.

[bmthnick1981]

Amazing project.

[eliot]

PhillipM said:

AS Andy says, mechanical, they're like a vane type pump inside, easy to see why they struggle with wear when you split them - somewhat resemble a torque converter.

Really? I assumed it's more like an electrically actuated spool valve like found inside an auto trans?

Any photos for the curious?

[PhillipM]

It was a while since I was playing with them tbh, probably have some pictures but digging them out is another matter! Tbh I can't remember exactly apart from it looked like solution searching for a problem, like the bloody flywheel that weighed about 10x what it needed to

[andygtt]

I don't suppose he did any dyno runs on it.... Be nice to tally know what the power curve looks like compare to stock, I, not worried about low down as it's an engine to be revved anyhow. And as you say it will have more than enough to move a 1000kgs car around at low revs anyhow.

Getting rid of the vanos would simplify the engine enough to make me consider it again lol.... Wouldn't be that expensive to replace rings and bearings for a decent rebuild then, my plan is to run a triple plate clutch regardless of engine so that quick gear changes will be possible.... Fancied a dsg but the missus is adement we have a manual as hates the flappy paddles in the M5 we have... And a manual is hardly slumming it lol

[PhillipM]

We did, but it had shrick cams in it too and a compression bump, never did a back to back with a stock setup, I do remember it had a fairly big jump in torque around 3krpm - about 60-70lbft over 500rpm or so, and another about 6krpm where it did another 30-40lbft up and then held it bar a slow decline to ~8.5k

Did the same thing with the clutch, 3 plate Tilton and made a flywheel to suit....not much difference vs the old unit....saved something stupid like 20kg+

Edited by PhillipM on Monday 15th August 20:17

[dom9]

Phil, OT for a second, how's your mate's V8 from 2 x Honda F20 (or was it K20) engine project going?

Andy - V10 please! Love that engine, even with its issues!

I actually bought the V8 e61 as I was so scared of it

I need to live vicariously through someone!

[e21Mark]

andygtt said:

Fancied a dsg but the missus is adement we have a manual

Kudos to Mrs Andygtt!

Now you're going space frame and carbon fibre do you have any idea what kerb weight will be achievable once finished?

If I had the funds I would love a V10 in my E30 M3. Obviously it's been done a few times but there just something about the characteristics of that engine that makes me think of it as a bigger, badder s14.

[confucuis]

About the V10...

I was at a hillclimb at the weekend. One of the competitors had put the v10 from the M5 into the E46 3 series, with a straight piped exhaust.

This video I took of it doesn't do the sound justice. Never heard anything like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLF0x0Z8wjo

[andygtt]

Sounds awesome indeed

I put straight through pipes on my black M5... Sounded as good as any road car I have hear in person.

[Zombie]

confucuis said:

About the V10...

I was at a hillclimb at the weekend. One of the competitors had put the v10 from the M5 into the E46 3 series, with a straight piped exhaust.

This video I took of it doesn't do the sound justice. Never heard anything like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLF0x0Z8wjo

TBH, that doesn't sound that nice...