JZW Stage 5 Saab 9-3 v6 Aero
Discussion
SAAB's finally back home! 6 weeks for a clutch swap!!!!
I've only covered around 50 miles so far but initial impressions on the paddle clutch are good, pedal feels a little harder and definitely more of a spring to it, but soon got used to that and felt better at the end of the journey. Bite points a little lower than standard but still fine, has some chatter at idle/neutral but that goes when it's in gear.
Had a nice surprise with the 6 puck clutch though, not at all grabby/snatchy like I thought it would be, engages just as smooth as the standard one, no problems in heavy start/stop traffic or reversing/edging forward in to tight parking spaces. So far so good!!
Quaife- Haven't really had a chance to try this yet, I'm sticking to that 500 mile break in for the clutch so it's getting driven slow for now! Can definitely feel it corners better though, wasn't too bad before for a fwd car but you can feel the Quaife working and tug you a little tighter into the corner.
Tomorrows job- swap the maf sensors around & remap again, fingers crossed that's cured the throttle cut issue.
450 slow & boring miles to go until I can really see how it drives. First time in 2 years with no clutch slip!!
I've only covered around 50 miles so far but initial impressions on the paddle clutch are good, pedal feels a little harder and definitely more of a spring to it, but soon got used to that and felt better at the end of the journey. Bite points a little lower than standard but still fine, has some chatter at idle/neutral but that goes when it's in gear.
Had a nice surprise with the 6 puck clutch though, not at all grabby/snatchy like I thought it would be, engages just as smooth as the standard one, no problems in heavy start/stop traffic or reversing/edging forward in to tight parking spaces. So far so good!!
Quaife- Haven't really had a chance to try this yet, I'm sticking to that 500 mile break in for the clutch so it's getting driven slow for now! Can definitely feel it corners better though, wasn't too bad before for a fwd car but you can feel the Quaife working and tug you a little tighter into the corner.
Tomorrows job- swap the maf sensors around & remap again, fingers crossed that's cured the throttle cut issue.
450 slow & boring miles to go until I can really see how it drives. First time in 2 years with no clutch slip!!
Edited by griffin dai on Tuesday 3rd November 18:55
Be careful going to downpipes etc that are overly large, there's a possibility that you may sacrifice torque. I think it's a mistake I made on the Evo with ported exhaust manifold and turbo elbow. Might be of more benefit to you, given the amount of hp and torque the car already seems capable of, but I'd maybe ask some questions first, rather than risk finding out the expensive way?
Great thread, btw.
Great thread, btw.
Heaveho said:
Be careful going to downpipes etc that are overly large, there's a possibility that you may sacrifice torque. I think it's a mistake I made on the Evo with ported exhaust manifold and turbo elbow. Might be of more benefit to you, given the amount of hp and torque the car already seems capable of, but I'd maybe ask some questions first, rather than risk finding out the expensive way?
Great thread, btw.
Thanks mate. Yeah most tend to just go for 3" and no more. Thing is with the stock downpipe it's got a big thick cat running straight off the turbo flange, looks around 4-4.5" diameter so plenty of room there for a mental downpipe, just trying to find more info on it, I don't think anyone's done this in the UK yet but a lot of the Vectra VXR guys (same engine) have hollowed out the standard Cat so effectively have a larger downpipe then tapers into 2.25" to the rest of the system. Kicking myself now for not thinking about it when the car was in the garage for the month!!!Great thread, btw.
Standard DP with big precat;
Here's the 5" DP I've found in the states:
https://sites.google.com/site/cbmotorworks/saab/9-...
The second option is our special 5 inch expansion chamber downpipe. This downpipe has a large 5 inch exhaust section behinsd the turbine outlet. Turbine wheel efficency is rated in work extracted from exhaust, and efficecny can be increased by changing the pressure across the wheel. More pressure on the wheel inlet, and less on the wheel outlet increases efficency. The large chamber creates a low pressure zone directly behind the turbine wheel, similar to running no downpipe. The effect is reduced spool time and increases top end efficency. Once the exhaust gas as expanded out in to the chamber and cooled, it is tapered back down in to a 3 inch tube, so that exhaust velocity is retained. The only downsite to this downpipe is that the factory heat shield cannot be retained, as well as a catalytic converter cannot be added to it.
Something to look into next year anyway
camern said:
If you don't mind me asking what sort of ball part cost wise are you looking at for the paddle clutch and quaife diff
I have also have a JZW 9-3 2.8t but only running stage 1
Sure I have also have a JZW 9-3 2.8t but only running stage 1
Clutch was £650 from CG Motorsport but you have to quote Dave from UKSaabs or its £750 (£100 off for UKS, Saab Central & VXROL members) that includes the single mass flywheel, bolts, disc & pressure plate. That's the 666 & 777 kits.
Quaife was £789 from Abbott Racing
You'll also need 2 diff bearings (around £20) plus seals and worth sticking some decent oil in there like Redline. Also really worth sorting the gearbox turret while the box is out, the f40 box is very notchy/stiff but there's a repair kit on eBay for around £20, basically cleans up the inside and swaps the plastic/worn insert for metal. This plus decent oil makes a nice difference to the gearchange.
Labour varies really from place to place, some around £500 but I got quoted £450 & vat, ended up £815 though as they had the car 6 weeks messing around with the duff flywheel
I've just bought a 9-3 as a runabout 3rd car - was mightily tempted by the 2.8 Aero as they tend to be cheap compared to the 2.0T cars, but just could not get my head around paying 500 quid VED on what's supposed to be a shopping/commuting car.
So I'm now trying manfully to resist having a remap done on the 2.0T Vector that I bought!
outnumbered said:
I've just bought a 9-3 as a runabout 3rd car - was mightily tempted by the 2.8 Aero as they tend to be cheap compared to the 2.0T cars, but just could not get my head around paying 500 quid VED on what's supposed to be a shopping/commuting car.
So I'm now trying manfully to resist having a remap done on the 2.0T Vector that I bought!
23rd March 2006 was when the higher tax kicked in on the v6, mines a 55 plate so I think £290 a year. So I'm now trying manfully to resist having a remap done on the 2.0T Vector that I bought!
Swings in roundabouts though, on one hand you pay almost double the tax on a 07 facelift car, but that comes with a much better/easier to upgrade stereo and that's a massive headache not to worry about (if that's a concern) 03-06 systems are crap and pretty difficult to upgrade.
You can also get a pre facelift car with updated dash/system but again you get hit with the higher tax band
Tiny update!
3 bar map sensor now fitted
Another remap to suit but the throttle cut issues still here, actually feels worst than before but Ive read these ecu's need a while to adapt after a reflash so will see how it goes over the next few days. On the old Saab I'd just pull the battery cable for 15 mins then blat it everywhere to quickly adapt but can't here with the new clutch
Need to get the mileage on now so I can send the logs off to the tuner and finally have it mapped up nice. 430 slow/boring miles to go!!!
3 bar map sensor now fitted
Another remap to suit but the throttle cut issues still here, actually feels worst than before but Ive read these ecu's need a while to adapt after a reflash so will see how it goes over the next few days. On the old Saab I'd just pull the battery cable for 15 mins then blat it everywhere to quickly adapt but can't here with the new clutch
Need to get the mileage on now so I can send the logs off to the tuner and finally have it mapped up nice. 430 slow/boring miles to go!!!
Bluehawk said:
Loving this car!!
Recently owned a Saab 93 2.0t, running 300bhp with bigger turbo etc... so i can only imagine what this thing must go like!
Have you had it on a Dyno yet? would love to see some real figures!
Thanks Recently owned a Saab 93 2.0t, running 300bhp with bigger turbo etc... so i can only imagine what this thing must go like!
Have you had it on a Dyno yet? would love to see some real figures!
Yeah goes well to be fair, the Quaifes doing its job
I'm just trying to pile on the miles now up and down the valleys (best place as your constantly up and down the box!!)Hoping to get on the dyno before Christmas, next mod will be an adjustable actuator, hoping that will help with the boost issue
Another map loaded with more base boost, seems to drive better, throttle cut issues still there but not happening until higher up the rev range (keeping it under 4K still though so can't really get a feel for it yet!)
260 odd miles to go until I can floor it!
I can't help thinking the standard actuators not up to this stage 5 tune, so pay day I'll be getting one of these to try, looks a cracking price as it includes the spring kit!!
http://shop.mambatek.com/GM-OPEL-VECTRA-28T-V6-TD0...
This Quaife LSD though!!!! Awesome bit of kit!!!
260 odd miles to go until I can floor it!
I can't help thinking the standard actuators not up to this stage 5 tune, so pay day I'll be getting one of these to try, looks a cracking price as it includes the spring kit!!
http://shop.mambatek.com/GM-OPEL-VECTRA-28T-V6-TD0...
This Quaife LSD though!!!! Awesome bit of kit!!!
Finally managed to get a few logs off to John so he can see what's causing the throttle cut & dumping boost early. Still trying to get my head around HP Tuners, I'll try and post a screen shot of the graph display when I figure it out!!
Basically it's boosting too high and knocking a fair bit, backfiring loads if you accelerate from 2k onwards in 3rd. Initially thought the coils could be on their way out or plugs need replacing (I think they've done around 9k in 2.5 years but he's recommended swapping them after 6k)
So John suggested a different way of driving it, not to load up too early in 3rd & 4th, 2k is way too low. 1st & 2nd no problem but 3rd plus gears needs to be driven a bit different.
3rd gear - don't go WOT until at least 3k
4th gear - don't go WOT until 3.4k
5th & 6th - never go WOT here as it puts too much stress on the engine/drivetrain & clutch so better to drop down and power through the gears instead.
And......he's 100% correct!!!! (I'll add what's been said later but worth a read if you've got the v6) just doing his has transformed the way it drives :shock:
So holding off going WOT until 3k has made a MASSIVE difference to things here! Same map, nothing altered except my driving style. No throttle cut, no boost dump, not a single backfire/pop (completely vanished) just accelerates like never before!!
60-90 in 3.3s!!!! To put that into perspective he's getting 60-90 in 3s with the 20T plus tubular headers and probably a more fine tuned map!!
Pretty impressed with that, I'll get a few more logs to him later, maybe he can tweak the map again and get it a tad quicker? 60-100 is 5 secs dead, pretty sure the 19/20T would cover 90-100 quicker as you get more top end power here, but the whole point of going for the 18t was to have a quick sub 80/90mph car.
So far so good!!
Basically it's boosting too high and knocking a fair bit, backfiring loads if you accelerate from 2k onwards in 3rd. Initially thought the coils could be on their way out or plugs need replacing (I think they've done around 9k in 2.5 years but he's recommended swapping them after 6k)
So John suggested a different way of driving it, not to load up too early in 3rd & 4th, 2k is way too low. 1st & 2nd no problem but 3rd plus gears needs to be driven a bit different.
3rd gear - don't go WOT until at least 3k
4th gear - don't go WOT until 3.4k
5th & 6th - never go WOT here as it puts too much stress on the engine/drivetrain & clutch so better to drop down and power through the gears instead.
And......he's 100% correct!!!! (I'll add what's been said later but worth a read if you've got the v6) just doing his has transformed the way it drives :shock:
So holding off going WOT until 3k has made a MASSIVE difference to things here! Same map, nothing altered except my driving style. No throttle cut, no boost dump, not a single backfire/pop (completely vanished) just accelerates like never before!!
60-90 in 3.3s!!!! To put that into perspective he's getting 60-90 in 3s with the 20T plus tubular headers and probably a more fine tuned map!!
Pretty impressed with that, I'll get a few more logs to him later, maybe he can tweak the map again and get it a tad quicker? 60-100 is 5 secs dead, pretty sure the 19/20T would cover 90-100 quicker as you get more top end power here, but the whole point of going for the 18t was to have a quick sub 80/90mph car.
So far so good!!
New map loaded, more fuel in the mid range and it's definitely heading in the right direction this!!
60-90 down to 3.1secs so getting quicker with every tweak, just sent the logs off again so maybe more to come if he thinks there's room for improvement
Missfiring, throttle cut & boost issues all gone now, running nice
60-90 down to 3.1secs so getting quicker with every tweak, just sent the logs off again so maybe more to come if he thinks there's room for improvement
Missfiring, throttle cut & boost issues all gone now, running nice
Booked in for Saturday with SWSS to get the plugs swapped out for another set of NGK LFR7AIX and have the rear bank of coils changed for new Bosch 112 coils, these seem to be a little less prone to dying comapred to the old type 104 coils. Just needs no 2 & 4 coils swapped next month and that done (no.6 coil swapped out last April)
Front banks dead easy to change on these but the rears are a right pita and easy to snap/break something expensive so it's going to the Saab garage!!
Still getting a little misfire and dumps boost if I go WOT too early, hold off until 3k and its fine. I'm hoping new plugs/coils will help here as these v6's can be a bit fussy with coils when tuned and plugs should be swapped out way earlier than normal, done around 11-12k now and have been advised to change every 6k to keep it happy.
Next purchase is an adjustable actuator, maybe that'll help it hold the extra boost. Running a fair bit over standard here to maybe the insignias actuator is a little weak for stage 5! Plus looking into maybe a td04-gt30 hybrid or just upgrade the old 15t to billet 20T next year (50/50 on this, goes well enough but could do with a little extra sparkle between 90-100) but don't want another lag monster like the old 9000!!
http://shop.mambatek.com/SAAB-9-3-28T-Z28NET-TD04H...
Front banks dead easy to change on these but the rears are a right pita and easy to snap/break something expensive so it's going to the Saab garage!!
Still getting a little misfire and dumps boost if I go WOT too early, hold off until 3k and its fine. I'm hoping new plugs/coils will help here as these v6's can be a bit fussy with coils when tuned and plugs should be swapped out way earlier than normal, done around 11-12k now and have been advised to change every 6k to keep it happy.
Next purchase is an adjustable actuator, maybe that'll help it hold the extra boost. Running a fair bit over standard here to maybe the insignias actuator is a little weak for stage 5! Plus looking into maybe a td04-gt30 hybrid or just upgrade the old 15t to billet 20T next year (50/50 on this, goes well enough but could do with a little extra sparkle between 90-100) but don't want another lag monster like the old 9000!!
http://shop.mambatek.com/SAAB-9-3-28T-Z28NET-TD04H...
Great stuff.
Is that boost cut thing at lower revs to protect the bottom end.
I remember from the t5's if they had the early bosch ecu (4.4 I think) it could get full boost at low rpms with a big turbo fitted it would do big damage.
The cars with the later bosch ecu (me7 if memory serves), had a failsafe to protect against this, the cutting it did was as you describe.
This stuff goes back a few years from when i had my T5, so has most likely been sorted now.
Just a thought that popped into my head reading this.
Is that boost cut thing at lower revs to protect the bottom end.
I remember from the t5's if they had the early bosch ecu (4.4 I think) it could get full boost at low rpms with a big turbo fitted it would do big damage.
The cars with the later bosch ecu (me7 if memory serves), had a failsafe to protect against this, the cutting it did was as you describe.
This stuff goes back a few years from when i had my T5, so has most likely been sorted now.
Just a thought that popped into my head reading this.
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