JZW Stage 5 Saab 9-3 v6 Aero

[griffin dai]

Hackney said:

Thanks.

Must stop reading your threads on here and UK Saabs. Keep getting itchy credit card finger!
Shopping list now includes 3" downpipe, strut brace, intercooler, brake upgrade etc, etc.
Necessities: rear diff (maybe), service (in 3,000 miles)

Yeah best to get the diff serviced mate, they can be a little problematic and end up with big repair bills, I think the TX has the same Hadlex as the Insignia VXR and they seem to be having the same diff issues on VXROL. Thorney MS seem to be the ones to use there for a good service/upgrade especially if your looking to tune it. This would be my first port of call before any upgrades tbh.

Strut brace....I can't really say it's made a big difference on mine but with all the other suspension mods it's probably helped. Martin93t fitted one to his TX a while back and it sounded like a worthwhile upgrade here.

Brake upgrade- You've got the same 345's as me on the TX, I guess the next step up would be the Maptun 4 pots or if your flush (I'm not) the Maptun 6 pots. For a cheap upgrade though I'd just for some good pads like Ferodo DS2500 or DS3000, HEL lines and decent fluid like RBF600. Shouldn't cost too much. Basically what I've got but with standard Vec VXR discs. The Maptun kit probably weighs less than the 345's though (they're well heavy)!!

Downpipe you can go slightly bigger to 3.5" but the heat shield won't go back on so you'd have to heat wrap it or get this ceramic coated, 3" will be fine though. I'm going for the 5" one later next year when I've got a few quid spare but have it ceramic coated.

IC- This evo ones fine, had to fit inbetween the rad & a/c though, I know one of the guys on UKS fitted it right up front line a proper FMIC but had issues with it rubbing so bummed it for the DO88 cooler instead (I think that's a drop in fit but 50mm and wider/taller) I'll probably have to bin mine this year and get the thinner IC when i go for a bigger water rad, really tight there so I'll struggle to fit the 90mm IC, 50mm rad and keep the A/C....plus upgrading the oil cooler for an external one which sits right up front of the IC. Gonna be tight!!

[griffin dai]

Thanks mate, yeah I'll ask the garage to keep them in order to check if there's any issues. I'll probably take a small box down with numbered cut outs so they can plonk then in quickly in the right order. The 3 old coils will be kept in the car just in case for spare. The other two will probably die soon

I think new plugs should sort it here, hope so anyway!

[griffin dai]

Have you still got the R1? Guess you've seen this

http://youtu.be/nANRAeyu_sU

[griffin dai]

Heaveho said:

Hi, if you need to change the ic, have a look at the HDI GT range, very good cooler. Had one on my Evo, about 75mm thick, measured the temps, and it was as good as the thicker and much heavier ETS I run now. And cheaper! Both of them are better than the standard Evo 8 item, and that in itself is a good cooler within it's limits. If you're at 500 brake, you're past the limits of a standard Evo cooler, the HDI is rated to 750 brake. I sold mine for £250 a couple of years ago, so they're not barmy money 2nd hand for how good they are. The unbranded stuff on ebay is generally crap at keeping temps low.

All the best with the car, great thread.

Thanks mate I'll take a look at them, if I can keep the 90mm evo IC (Chinese copy off eBay) plus the bigger rad I should be ok. No issues with heat soak here yet either but might be different over summer. Heavy thing though!!

The US Saab lot rate the ETS coolers highly, seems a popular choice over there.

[griffin dai]

Forgot to add another exhaust clip with a few revs thrown in:

http://youtu.be/abtMT-tpxkY

Sounds nice but still missing that little crackle you get on the Turbo X when you lift off. I think that comes from the TX's rumble box that's fitted just before the system splits to the tail pipes.

Standard Aero exhaust


Turbo X exhaust


I might give the rumble box a try out after the boost issues sorted and see how it sounds then

[griffin dai]

Heaveho said:

Hi, are you measuring the temps from the IC you're currently using? A k type thermocouple in the throttle body linked to a digital display, and a scangauge plugged into the OBD socket to take measurements from the IAT on the inlet manifold makes interesting reading. Also interesting comparisons in temp differences between the two, the differences can be massive, depending on throttle openings. The air temp in the manifold is what I've learnt to pay more attention to, that's obviously more representative of the temp of air likely to be entering the cylinders. It's always higher than at the throttle body.

Thanks again I'll be getting my head into HP Tuners over the next few weeks, and hoping to sort something out later this year to keep an eye on things with a small 7" tablet as a display. I think I can measure everything through that?

http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmscanner.php

[griffin dai]

AntiLagGC8 said:

I couldn't agree more.

I had a poor after market intercooler and I didn't understand that was the problem until I took it to the excellent Engine Tuner in Plymouth who know Impreza's very well who took one look and said the rubbish intercooler was the issue. The car never over heated or showed any signs of heat issues but changing it to a recommended one (the HDi GT is always well recommended) and with a remap and some other changes it made an additional 120bhp.

Excellent thread by the way! I love reading threads like this!

Thanks

That's some jump in power What other mods did you do? How much power can the Impreza's take before its forged piston time? Good mate of mine had the P1 for a while, awesome bit of kit

I really need to get into HP Tuners here and start logging a few things. Im happy enough with the performance side now and handlings about as good as I can get it bar fitting some sticky tyres over summer, so next 'project' is tackle the engine temps and try bring them down a bit (you could fry an egg in there it gets so hot!!) should really look at upgrading the water rad and oil cooler sooner than later.

Not many options here bar a uprated Courtney Rad for the Vectra VXR, or go custom for around £500 (nothing Saab available anywhere) Probably not so much an issue yet (not exactly running mad power compared to some 9-3's in the states! Still a pretty small turbo) But will probably go for a bigger turbo later this year so best sort the cooling side out first.

[griffin dai]

Few quid spent there!!!! Bet that really shifts off the line!

How do you find the VF37? Do the Impreza's come with a td04 or td05 standard?

Sorry budd, it was the custom water rad that was £500, I think the Courtney one is closer to £700? Plenty of choice for the IC bit a litre limited with the rad. Bit of a crap set up really on these, the VXR guys tend to upgrade their rads when they tune above stage 1, but hardly any of the Saab lot bother (no idea why as its the same engine, makes sense to upgrade though...)

Oil cooler I'll just copy what one of the Holset guys did, just need this adapter plate from the states and I'll get the rest locally. I'll get there in the end!!

https://sites.google.com/site/cbmotorworks/saab/9-...

[griffin dai]

Coils & plugs done, running a little smoother now, still has that slight problem dumping boost if I go WOT too early but overall smoother power delivery and feels a little more responsive.

I think I'll give that actuator a try out, got a feeling the standard ones struggling a bit with the extra boost.

[griffin dai]

AntiLagGC8 said:

The VF37, front mount and induction kit with the existing engine work really transformed the car. The VF37 is a fantastic mid-range turbo as it spools very well but delivers much far more performance than the TD04 with little increase in lag and whereas the TD04 ran out of puff at around 6k the new turbo make the engine want to smash into the red line.

Sounds similar to my old GT28RS? Loved that turbo!! Just as quick as my old gt3076r 0-60 & 0-100 but without the lag 60-100 was around a second slower but still nice and rapid under 80/90.

[griffin dai]

Heaveho said:

Engine Tuner are very well respected and have a good rep on the Evo forum., I think you'd be in safe hands there.

Thanks. I'll take a look at these later

[griffin dai]

Pics of the old plugs





How do they look?

[griffin dai]

Thanks mate, I think they're ok. I'll be swapping these every yearly service now so probably every 4k, JZW recommends every 6k so should be ok from here on (down to one job now so no more long drives to the sticks!)

Really have to sort this faulty temp gauge out though, needle keeps rising to almost redline so have to stop for 15 mins with the battery pulled to reset it Happened 3 times today and it's a right PITA!!!!!

Common (ish) fault in the 9-3 and needs a new instrument cluster fitted.

[griffin dai]

No real update here but have the car booked in with GotBoost for a dyno day in March to see what it's putting out.

Any S.Wales guys (or if anyone else fancies a drive across the bridge to 'sunny' South Wales!!!!) more than welcome to attend

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Hoping the dyno op can see what's causing this throttle cut issue, I think I'll come in around 15% lower than expected though as the US cars get dynod on a dynojet dyno so usually read a little higher? Should have really got this done 2 years ago when the car was standard to get a baseline figure to work off

I'll book it back in for April/May then for a couple hours on the dyno to try this Mambatec actuator out with different springs and see which is best to use (still 99% sure this insignias actuators causing the problem)

[griffin dai]

Update time...some good & some bad....

I had the car dyno'd last week so treated it to bath with the local Polish guys before going:




My Abbott Racing stickers finally got to go on!



Clean bum (tail pipes stayed shiny for around a day!!)



Then got HP Tuners back out and did a couple logs to get a rough idea what power of get....and try and log a run with this throttle cut/boost dump problem I'm still getting Tried the boost solenoid off my old 15t but still the same.



So looking at that it's getting around 277/278gps which I think is around the 340bhp mark?? (The 19t guys are getting 309gps so a fair bit lower here but still feels nice & quick so no complaints here)

Still getting around 3.3/3.4s 60-90 so not too far off the 19t's pace



So back to the dyno and it didn't go well

I did ask them to do a pull from 3k in 3rd or 3.5k in 4th where the cars happy but they didn't and did a run from around 2nd in 4th and the car ran like st, hit throttle cut, then had traction problems when it sorted itself out and made low power (does this on the road, just can't got WOT below 3k in 3rd or 3,400 in 4th as it hits throttle cut, backfires, kills the boost and I have to back right off then accelerate again and it's ok) But if I nail it where I should (3k plus) it's off like a rocket and pulls strong all the way to redline.

Here's the dyno plot (and it's not looking good!!!)





Feedback from them was it's running dangerously lean low down, he was happy with mid range & top end power but recommended getting the map looked at.

So being a little worried I went back to my tuner, showed him the graphs and after a bit of messaging back & forth he explained how he maps these differently to the other tuners, sounds like it's a much more aggressive way of mapping and unlike some of the euro tuners where you get a nice steady build up of torque, here it's pretty much full boost from the get go. So with these tunes the cars don't like to be lugged low down as it puts too much stress on the rods, box & clutch and it's better to run them WOT between 3k to 6k instead of flooring it lower down and riding the torque like the others. Maptun/Hirsch cars don't seem to have these problems as they're tuned differently. Both still v.quick but a bit less mad to save stress on the engine & clutch.

So had a few map tweaks to make it slightly richer lower down and this has virtually eliminated the throttle cut around 2.5-3k so can now get a decent pace on around half throttle then nail it at 3k (quick!!!) whereas before I'd have to baby it to 3k the go wot. But yes there is a problem here but it looks like it's a weak fuel pump. It's running a bit leaner than the other cars that are .86 lambda and this stays in .98 range until 5k. So the main suspect now is the fuel pump. Nothing after market/upgrade I can find for this (miss the old days with the 9000! 80 quid Walbro, job done!! But have been advised to just get a new standard pump (£175 plus shipping/tax!!!!!) which is good for 450bhp. Tank also had to be dropped so there's a good few hours labour here Also worth swapping the fuel pump controller module and I'll get a new petrol cap while I'm at it as any one of these can throw a cel (0089) so worth doing the lot in one go. If you don't give the cap 3 clicks when you tighten it, run the tank low etc....throws cel 0089

[griffin dai]

djgritt said:

When I mailed asking about issues/concerns with my Map and low figures/lean running, I got a "it's the Dyno type" reply etc.

JZW was very reluctant to do anything with the map to address the issues that I was raising.

Still, car is long gone now so no need to think about it anymore.

Did you get it sorted in the end?

I'm ordering the pump & sensors in a couple weeks, then getting it done on my week off. Hopefully this will be the end of it & it'll run like it should.

[griffin dai]

Shadow R1 said:

Id be taking it to a different mapper, a\f ratios like that wont end well.

A fuel pump fault \ limitation would show at the top end not low down.

I'll stick with him mate, I've got faith in him and he's got an awesome rep in the Saab tuning world, definitely knows his stuff here but likes to push things a little harder than others, and to be fair he's been really helpful trying to sort everything out. I'll dig out the main bits & pieces from the emails later (18 of them in around a day!!) explaining what's what. I'll be honest and was a little worried driving home from the dyno but now he's explained everything it's put my mind at ease and given me a kick up the arse to get things sorted....

There's definitely a problem here though, that's obvious now and needs fixing.

The fuel pumps can be problematic on the v6 and one of the first signs is throwing CEL 0089 which could be a number of things, could be something really simple like the petrol cap hasn't been tightened enough so it's recommended to give it at least 3 clicks (guilty!!) running the tank too low (again....guilty) Or could be the control module fuel pump (I think it's the small sensor on the fuel rail under the engine cover) or the pump itself. I had this code flash up a couple times at stage 1, my fault for leaving it run too low. The code cleared and didn't flash for months & months but came back a few times.

Big thread on it over on SaabCentral, they've tried all sorts to fix it cheaply but the only real fix is a new pump & sensor

[griffin dai]

Finally fitted my BPS short shifter kit.



http://youtu.be/Eko96Zk4pfw

Bit of a faff to fit but changes feel miles better. More pics to follow, just have to fit the stainless shifter bushes tomorrow and that's done.

[griffin dai]

Pics of the shifter fitted, needed a bit of fettling this one!!! Just couldn't get 1st or 2nd no matter what I tried, so had to file down a load off the plastic cover where reverse lock usually lives!

You can see where I had to trim the cover here to get the shifter assembly through the hole, still a tight squeeze.



Clamp fitted, you can move this up & down to reposition the stick



Neutral then reverse & 1st onwards.










Here's where I've had to file a load of plastic away to get 1st & 2nd, needs a couple mm shaved off the bottom to get 2nd easier.



Need to sort this out now :wall: I think I can adjust the nuts here to get the shift pattern bang on...





Bit of a faff to fit this considering the cost of the thing!!!

[griffin dai]

More pics....

Here's how much extra I've had to shave off the cover as I couldn't get 1st or 2nd gear, far from ideal this and after a quick drive selecting 1st & 2nd is still a pain. I might get another cover off a breaker and have a play around with it. On the plus side the gear changes feel miles better.



First thing to do is remove the large plastic covers either side of the tunnel, then the flat black metal brace & large plastic air vent to get access to the bolts.

Here's the 4 bolts you have to remove to fit the washers:

Front


Rear


Close up, it's one bolt then a T shape washer and underneath is a rubber grommet


T shape washers


With these removed the shifter base is loose, then you have to prize/push out the rubber grommet from the top


Grommet


New washers then go underneath the holes, they're chamfered one side so the chamfered part goes through the hole and stays put


Washer on top


Bolt back down and it's done


Then had to adjust the 2 nuts on top of the shifter to get the knobs shift pattern center.


All done


Definitely an improvement over standard, changes feel much better.

Pretty sure the Chevy Cobalt uses the same set up and maybe the 6 speed Vectra? I'll try and get another cover from each plus another Saab and see if I can sort something out. 1st & reverse are really close together, with no reverse lock you can easily get reverse by mistake and slam in to the car behind!!! 1st to 2nd's ok but dropping from 3rd/4th to 2nd is a nightmare.