JZW Stage 5 Saab 9-3 v6 Aero
Discussion
Few quid spent there!!!! Bet that really shifts off the line!
How do you find the VF37? Do the Impreza's come with a td04 or td05 standard?
Sorry budd, it was the custom water rad that was £500, I think the Courtney one is closer to £700? Plenty of choice for the IC bit a litre limited with the rad. Bit of a crap set up really on these, the VXR guys tend to upgrade their rads when they tune above stage 1, but hardly any of the Saab lot bother (no idea why as its the same engine, makes sense to upgrade though...)
Oil cooler I'll just copy what one of the Holset guys did, just need this adapter plate from the states and I'll get the rest locally. I'll get there in the end!!
https://sites.google.com/site/cbmotorworks/saab/9-...
How do you find the VF37? Do the Impreza's come with a td04 or td05 standard?
Sorry budd, it was the custom water rad that was £500, I think the Courtney one is closer to £700? Plenty of choice for the IC bit a litre limited with the rad. Bit of a crap set up really on these, the VXR guys tend to upgrade their rads when they tune above stage 1, but hardly any of the Saab lot bother (no idea why as its the same engine, makes sense to upgrade though...)
Oil cooler I'll just copy what one of the Holset guys did, just need this adapter plate from the states and I'll get the rest locally. I'll get there in the end!!
https://sites.google.com/site/cbmotorworks/saab/9-...
griffin dai said:
Few quid spent there!!!! Bet that really shifts off the line!
How do you find the VF37? Do the Impreza's come with a td04 or td05 standard?
Sorry budd, it was the custom water rad that was £500, I think the Courtney one is closer to £700? Plenty of choice for the IC bit a litre limited with the rad. Bit of a crap set up really on these, the VXR guys tend to upgrade their rads when they tune above stage 1, but hardly any of the Saab lot bother (no idea why as its the same engine, makes sense to upgrade though...)
Oil cooler I'll just copy what one of the Holset guys did, just need this adapter plate from the states and I'll get the rest locally. I'll get there in the end!!
https://sites.google.com/site/cbmotorworks/saab/9-...
Thanks, yes the build has cost a few quid especially with all of the other bits like the clutch and other supporting mods. I've only launched it a few times but its brutal, I've no idea what the car does now but its lighter than standard and much more powerful and the standard car could do a 0-60 in 4.9's.How do you find the VF37? Do the Impreza's come with a td04 or td05 standard?
Sorry budd, it was the custom water rad that was £500, I think the Courtney one is closer to £700? Plenty of choice for the IC bit a litre limited with the rad. Bit of a crap set up really on these, the VXR guys tend to upgrade their rads when they tune above stage 1, but hardly any of the Saab lot bother (no idea why as its the same engine, makes sense to upgrade though...)
Oil cooler I'll just copy what one of the Holset guys did, just need this adapter plate from the states and I'll get the rest locally. I'll get there in the end!!
https://sites.google.com/site/cbmotorworks/saab/9-...
My Impreza (RB5) had the TD04 (some models had the TD05). The TD04 spooled really quickly because its a little turbo which meant the car was very responsive but the VF37 spools well over 3.2k (so about 500-750rpm later) and there is a real rush to the red line now, a huge change. I also had three maps made for the Alcatek a low boost map (which I can use 97 fuel) and a high boost map (for 99 only) and finally the full fat map which has everything the high boost map has but also uses launch control and anti-lag. I've considered a meth map (should make about 30bhp+ more I'm told) but I dislike the stuff and I'm not sure if I be bothered with the faff of using it.
The VF37, front mount and induction kit with the existing engine work really transformed the car. The VF37 is a fantastic mid-range turbo as it spools very well but delivers much far more performance than the TD04 with little increase in lag and whereas the TD04 ran out of puff at around 6k the new turbo make the engine want to smash into the red line.
I'd definitely get cooling in order to look after the engine and potentially you can make more power with a remap? It will certainly aid performance going forwards.
Coils & plugs done, running a little smoother now, still has that slight problem dumping boost if I go WOT too early but overall smoother power delivery and feels a little more responsive.
I think I'll give that actuator a try out, got a feeling the standard ones struggling a bit with the extra boost.
I think I'll give that actuator a try out, got a feeling the standard ones struggling a bit with the extra boost.
AntiLagGC8 said:
The VF37, front mount and induction kit with the existing engine work really transformed the car. The VF37 is a fantastic mid-range turbo as it spools very well but delivers much far more performance than the TD04 with little increase in lag and whereas the TD04 ran out of puff at around 6k the new turbo make the engine want to smash into the red line.
Sounds similar to my old GT28RS? Loved that turbo!! Just as quick as my old gt3076r 0-60 & 0-100 but without the lag 
60-100 was around a second slower but still nice and rapid under 80/90. 
Thanks mate, I think they're ok. I'll be swapping these every yearly service now so probably every 4k, JZW recommends every 6k so should be ok from here on (down to one job now so no more long drives to the sticks!)
Really have to sort this faulty temp gauge out though, needle keeps rising to almost redline so have to stop for 15 mins with the battery pulled to reset it
Happened 3 times today and it's a right PITA!!!!!
Common (ish) fault in the 9-3 and needs a new instrument cluster fitted.
Really have to sort this faulty temp gauge out though, needle keeps rising to almost redline so have to stop for 15 mins with the battery pulled to reset it
Happened 3 times today and it's a right PITA!!!!!Common (ish) fault in the 9-3 and needs a new instrument cluster fitted.
No real update here but have the car booked in with GotBoost for a dyno day in March to see what it's putting out.
Any S.Wales guys (or if anyone else fancies a drive across the bridge to 'sunny' South Wales!!!!) more than welcome to attend
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Hoping the dyno op can see what's causing this throttle cut issue, I think I'll come in around 15% lower than expected though as the US cars get dynod on a dynojet dyno so usually read a little higher? Should have really got this done 2 years ago when the car was standard to get a baseline figure to work off
I'll book it back in for April/May then for a couple hours on the dyno to try this Mambatec actuator out with different springs and see which is best to use (still 99% sure this insignias actuators causing the problem)
Any S.Wales guys (or if anyone else fancies a drive across the bridge to 'sunny' South Wales!!!!) more than welcome to attend
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Hoping the dyno op can see what's causing this throttle cut issue, I think I'll come in around 15% lower than expected though as the US cars get dynod on a dynojet dyno so usually read a little higher? Should have really got this done 2 years ago when the car was standard to get a baseline figure to work off
I'll book it back in for April/May then for a couple hours on the dyno to try this Mambatec actuator out with different springs and see which is best to use (still 99% sure this insignias actuators causing the problem)
Update time...some good & some bad....
I had the car dyno'd last week so treated it to bath with the local Polish guys before going:
My Abbott Racing stickers finally got to go on!
Clean bum (tail pipes stayed shiny for around a day!!)
Then got HP Tuners back out and did a couple logs to get a rough idea what power of get....and try and log a run with this throttle cut/boost dump problem I'm still getting Tried the boost solenoid off my old 15t but still the same.
So looking at that it's getting around 277/278gps which I think is around the 340bhp mark?? (The 19t guys are getting 309gps so a fair bit lower here but still feels nice & quick so no complaints here)
Still getting around 3.3/3.4s 60-90 so not too far off the 19t's pace
So back to the dyno and it didn't go well
I did ask them to do a pull from 3k in 3rd or 3.5k in 4th where the cars happy but they didn't and did a run from around 2nd in 4th and the car ran like s
t, hit throttle cut, then had traction problems when it sorted itself out and made low power (does this on the road, just can't got WOT below 3k in 3rd or 3,400 in 4th as it hits throttle cut, backfires, kills the boost and I have to back right off then accelerate again and it's ok) But if I nail it where I should (3k plus) it's off like a rocket and pulls strong all the way to redline.
Here's the dyno plot (and it's not looking good!!!)
Feedback from them was it's running dangerously lean low down, he was happy with mid range & top end power but recommended getting the map looked at.
So being a little worried I went back to my tuner, showed him the graphs and after a bit of messaging back & forth he explained how he maps these differently to the other tuners, sounds like it's a much more aggressive way of mapping and unlike some of the euro tuners where you get a nice steady build up of torque, here it's pretty much full boost from the get go. So with these tunes the cars don't like to be lugged low down as it puts too much stress on the rods, box & clutch and it's better to run them WOT between 3k to 6k instead of flooring it lower down and riding the torque like the others. Maptun/Hirsch cars don't seem to have these problems as they're tuned differently. Both still v.quick but a bit less mad to save stress on the engine & clutch.
So had a few map tweaks to make it slightly richer lower down and this has virtually eliminated the throttle cut around 2.5-3k so can now get a decent pace on around half throttle then nail it at 3k (quick!!!) whereas before I'd have to baby it to 3k the go wot. But yes there is a problem here but it looks like it's a weak fuel pump. It's running a bit leaner than the other cars that are .86 lambda and this stays in .98 range until 5k. So the main suspect now is the fuel pump. Nothing after market/upgrade I can find for this (miss the old days with the 9000! 80 quid Walbro, job done!! But have been advised to just get a new standard pump (£175 plus shipping/tax!!!!!) which is good for 450bhp. Tank also had to be dropped so there's a good few hours labour here Also worth swapping the fuel pump controller module and I'll get a new petrol cap while I'm at it as any one of these can throw a cel (0089) so worth doing the lot in one go. If you don't give the cap 3 clicks when you tighten it, run the tank low etc....throws cel 0089
I had the car dyno'd last week so treated it to bath with the local Polish guys before going:
My Abbott Racing stickers finally got to go on!
Clean bum (tail pipes stayed shiny for around a day!!)
Then got HP Tuners back out and did a couple logs to get a rough idea what power of get....and try and log a run with this throttle cut/boost dump problem I'm still getting
Tried the boost solenoid off my old 15t but still the same.So looking at that it's getting around 277/278gps which I think is around the 340bhp mark?? (The 19t guys are getting 309gps so a fair bit lower here but still feels nice & quick so no complaints here)
Still getting around 3.3/3.4s 60-90 so not too far off the 19t's pace
So back to the dyno and it didn't go well
I did ask them to do a pull from 3k in 3rd or 3.5k in 4th where the cars happy but they didn't and did a run from around 2nd in 4th and the car ran like s
t, hit throttle cut, then had traction problems when it sorted itself out and made low power (does this on the road, just can't got WOT below 3k in 3rd or 3,400 in 4th as it hits throttle cut, backfires, kills the boost and I have to back right off then accelerate again and it's ok) But if I nail it where I should (3k plus) it's off like a rocket and pulls strong all the way to redline. Here's the dyno plot (and it's not looking good!!!)
Feedback from them was it's running dangerously lean low down, he was happy with mid range & top end power but recommended getting the map looked at.
So being a little worried I went back to my tuner, showed him the graphs and after a bit of messaging back & forth he explained how he maps these differently to the other tuners, sounds like it's a much more aggressive way of mapping and unlike some of the euro tuners where you get a nice steady build up of torque, here it's pretty much full boost from the get go. So with these tunes the cars don't like to be lugged low down as it puts too much stress on the rods, box & clutch and it's better to run them WOT between 3k to 6k instead of flooring it lower down and riding the torque like the others. Maptun/Hirsch cars don't seem to have these problems as they're tuned differently. Both still v.quick but a bit less mad to save stress on the engine & clutch.
So had a few map tweaks to make it slightly richer lower down and this has virtually eliminated the throttle cut around 2.5-3k so can now get a decent pace on around half throttle then nail it at 3k (quick!!!) whereas before I'd have to baby it to 3k the go wot. But yes there is a problem here but it looks like it's a weak fuel pump. It's running a bit leaner than the other cars that are .86 lambda and this stays in .98 range until 5k. So the main suspect now is the fuel pump. Nothing after market/upgrade I can find for this (miss the old days with the 9000! 80 quid Walbro, job done!! But have been advised to just get a new standard pump (£175 plus shipping/tax!!!!!) which is good for 450bhp. Tank also had to be dropped so there's a good few hours labour here
Also worth swapping the fuel pump controller module and I'll get a new petrol cap while I'm at it as any one of these can throw a cel (0089) so worth doing the lot in one go. If you don't give the cap 3 clicks when you tighten it, run the tank low etc....throws cel 0089 djgritt said:
When I mailed asking about issues/concerns with my Map and low figures/lean running, I got a "it's the Dyno type" reply etc.
JZW was very reluctant to do anything with the map to address the issues that I was raising.
Still, car is long gone now so no need to think about it anymore.
Did you get it sorted in the end? JZW was very reluctant to do anything with the map to address the issues that I was raising.
Still, car is long gone now so no need to think about it anymore.
I'm ordering the pump & sensors in a couple weeks, then getting it done on my week off. Hopefully this will be the end of it & it'll run like it should.
Shadow R1 said:
Id be taking it to a different mapper, a\f ratios like that wont end well.
A fuel pump fault \ limitation would show at the top end not low down.
I'll stick with him mate, I've got faith in him and he's got an awesome rep in the Saab tuning world, definitely knows his stuff here but likes to push things a little harder than others, and to be fair he's been really helpful trying to sort everything out. I'll dig out the main bits & pieces from the emails later (18 of them in around a day!!) explaining what's what. I'll be honest and was a little worried driving home from the dyno but now he's explained everything it's put my mind at ease and given me a kick up the arse to get things sorted....A fuel pump fault \ limitation would show at the top end not low down.
There's definitely a problem here though, that's obvious now and needs fixing.
The fuel pumps can be problematic on the v6 and one of the first signs is throwing CEL 0089 which could be a number of things, could be something really simple like the petrol cap hasn't been tightened enough so it's recommended to give it at least 3 clicks (guilty!!) running the tank too low (again....guilty)
Or could be the control module fuel pump (I think it's the small sensor on the fuel rail under the engine cover) or the pump itself. I had this code flash up a couple times at stage 1, my fault for leaving it run too low. The code cleared and didn't flash for months & months but came back a few times.Big thread on it over on SaabCentral, they've tried all sorts to fix it cheaply but the only real fix is a new pump & sensor
Finally fitted my BPS short shifter kit.
http://youtu.be/Eko96Zk4pfw
Bit of a faff to fit but changes feel miles better. More pics to follow, just have to fit the stainless shifter bushes tomorrow and that's done.
http://youtu.be/Eko96Zk4pfw
Bit of a faff to fit but changes feel miles better. More pics to follow, just have to fit the stainless shifter bushes tomorrow and that's done.
Pics of the shifter fitted, needed a bit of fettling this one!!! Just couldn't get 1st or 2nd no matter what I tried, so had to file down a load off the plastic cover where reverse lock usually lives!
You can see where I had to trim the cover here to get the shifter assembly through the hole, still a tight squeeze.
Clamp fitted, you can move this up & down to reposition the stick
Neutral then reverse & 1st onwards.
Here's where I've had to file a load of plastic away to get 1st & 2nd, needs a couple mm shaved off the bottom to get 2nd easier.
Need to sort this out now :wall: I think I can adjust the nuts here to get the shift pattern bang on...
Bit of a faff to fit this considering the cost of the thing!!!
You can see where I had to trim the cover here to get the shifter assembly through the hole, still a tight squeeze.
Clamp fitted, you can move this up & down to reposition the stick
Neutral then reverse & 1st onwards.
Here's where I've had to file a load of plastic away to get 1st & 2nd, needs a couple mm shaved off the bottom to get 2nd easier.
Need to sort this out now :wall: I think I can adjust the nuts here to get the shift pattern bang on...
Bit of a faff to fit this considering the cost of the thing!!!
More pics....
Here's how much extra I've had to shave off the cover as I couldn't get 1st or 2nd gear, far from ideal this and after a quick drive selecting 1st & 2nd is still a pain. I might get another cover off a breaker and have a play around with it. On the plus side the gear changes feel miles better.
First thing to do is remove the large plastic covers either side of the tunnel, then the flat black metal brace & large plastic air vent to get access to the bolts.
Here's the 4 bolts you have to remove to fit the washers:
Front
Rear
Close up, it's one bolt then a T shape washer and underneath is a rubber grommet
T shape washers
With these removed the shifter base is loose, then you have to prize/push out the rubber grommet from the top
Grommet
New washers then go underneath the holes, they're chamfered one side so the chamfered part goes through the hole and stays put
Washer on top
Bolt back down and it's done
Then had to adjust the 2 nuts on top of the shifter to get the knobs shift pattern center.
All done
Definitely an improvement over standard, changes feel much better.
Pretty sure the Chevy Cobalt uses the same set up and maybe the 6 speed Vectra? I'll try and get another cover from each plus another Saab and see if I can sort something out. 1st & reverse are really close together, with no reverse lock you can easily get reverse by mistake and slam in to the car behind!!! 1st to 2nd's ok but dropping from 3rd/4th to 2nd is a nightmare.
Here's how much extra I've had to shave off the cover as I couldn't get 1st or 2nd gear, far from ideal this and after a quick drive selecting 1st & 2nd is still a pain. I might get another cover off a breaker and have a play around with it. On the plus side the gear changes feel miles better.
First thing to do is remove the large plastic covers either side of the tunnel, then the flat black metal brace & large plastic air vent to get access to the bolts.
Here's the 4 bolts you have to remove to fit the washers:
Front
Rear
Close up, it's one bolt then a T shape washer and underneath is a rubber grommet
T shape washers
With these removed the shifter base is loose, then you have to prize/push out the rubber grommet from the top
Grommet
New washers then go underneath the holes, they're chamfered one side so the chamfered part goes through the hole and stays put
Washer on top
Bolt back down and it's done
Then had to adjust the 2 nuts on top of the shifter to get the knobs shift pattern center.
All done
Definitely an improvement over standard, changes feel much better.
Pretty sure the Chevy Cobalt uses the same set up and maybe the 6 speed Vectra? I'll try and get another cover from each plus another Saab and see if I can sort something out. 1st & reverse are really close together, with no reverse lock you can easily get reverse by mistake and slam in to the car behind!!! 1st to 2nd's ok but dropping from 3rd/4th to 2nd is a nightmare.
Found a guide on a Cobalt forum, should have put the car in 4th before I started taking the bloody shifter assembly apart!!! Would have bolted straight up and the clamp would just need a bit of fine adjusting up & down the selector & saved me a couple hours messing around filing it down, refitting, file, refit, file......
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/how-guide-43/chevro...
I'll get a spare cover off a breaker then start again when I'm off work for the week. Gearchanges feel miles better though with this fitted, solid bushes also made a nice improvement over the rubber ones.
That's about as good as I can get this side now
Billet Pro Shop shifter
Solid shifter mount kit
Taliaferro Shifter reinforcement kit
CG 777 paddle clutch kit
Quaife ATB LSD
Decent gear oil
Powerflex Yellow engine mounts
Next job: New fuel pump & couple sensors, then sort the ABS/TCS/Stability control faul out (should just be a duff abs sensor) then give it some beans to get the runs logged and hopefully get the map sorted.
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/how-guide-43/chevro...
I'll get a spare cover off a breaker then start again when I'm off work for the week. Gearchanges feel miles better though with this fitted, solid bushes also made a nice improvement over the rubber ones.
That's about as good as I can get this side now
Billet Pro Shop shifter
Solid shifter mount kit
Taliaferro Shifter reinforcement kit
CG 777 paddle clutch kit
Quaife ATB LSD
Decent gear oil
Powerflex Yellow engine mounts
Next job: New fuel pump & couple sensors, then sort the ABS/TCS/Stability control faul out (should just be a duff abs sensor) then give it some beans to get the runs logged and hopefully get the map sorted.
Finally got the short shifter sorted. Luckily I had a spare cover sent to me from one of the UKsaabs forum guys otherwise I'd have to buy a complete shifter assembly! Then followed the guide above from the cobalt forum. Had to shave down a few mm on the inside again to get it over the shifter stick. Bolted everything back up but still can't get 1st
Tried moving the shifter clamp all the way up and down the cable in 4th to adjust it but still the same, I can only get 1st if I lift the reverse collar and gently try and hit 1st and not reverse (can get a little interesting sat at the lights!!!) that's no good!
So had another look at the shifter, it's slightly thicker on the left side and fouls the cover, just feels like it needs to go across a tad more left and you can see the metal scraping the plastic, so had to file around 4-5mm straight down the side but not touch the reverse lock like last time or I'm back in the same boat!
And it's done the job
What a fk about!!! Hours & hours of messing where it should be a straight swap.
All the messing aside, nice little mod
Tried moving the shifter clamp all the way up and down the cable in 4th to adjust it but still the same, I can only get 1st if I lift the reverse collar and gently try and hit 1st and not reverse (can get a little interesting sat at the lights!!!) that's no good!
So had another look at the shifter, it's slightly thicker on the left side and fouls the cover, just feels like it needs to go across a tad more left and you can see the metal scraping the plastic, so had to file around 4-5mm straight down the side but not touch the reverse lock like last time or I'm back in the same boat!
And it's done the job
What a f
k about!!! Hours & hours of messing where it should be a straight swap. All the messing aside, nice little mod
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