1983 Citroen BX 16TRS - For the love of cars!
Discussion
williamp said:
You know, I don't actually think I have. I got all cocky and was about to say that I have them all, but I don't think I've seen that one! Will read later and see if I recognise it.CDB1983 said:
I've just read the whole thread with interest, It reminds me of when my parents had a Citroen BX, A red E reg 1.9RD which to a 5 year old was really impressive with the lift up suspension and the first brand new car my parents bought.
It was the first and only car i've been in an accident in, My mum crashed it twice. First into a Frenchman in a Maestro who was on the wrong side of the road on a Scottish single track lane and secondly into a Lada Riva which unfortunately finished the Citroen off. (Lada had a cracked headlight)
I also remember my mother always blaming the car for aquaplaning (She's a rubbish driver) and moaning that the brakes didn't work properly. My dad never had any problems in this respect. I remember several trips from where we lived in the Scottish highlands to Glasgow to get the thing fixed when the suspension failed to lift up (80 bumpy miles of my dad complaining about French engineering)
There was also the fond memory of going to the cash and carry in Glasgow to buy stock for our shop and then off to the station to collect my grandmother. Upon returning to the car someone had smashed one of the rear windows of the citroen and stolen the 3 black bags of rubbish that we were taking to the tip. (They left the stock that my parents bought earlier that day)
Great cars and many memories and its good to see some of them being saved.
I love the fact a British person driving a French car crashed into a French person driving a British car It was the first and only car i've been in an accident in, My mum crashed it twice. First into a Frenchman in a Maestro who was on the wrong side of the road on a Scottish single track lane and secondly into a Lada Riva which unfortunately finished the Citroen off. (Lada had a cracked headlight)
I also remember my mother always blaming the car for aquaplaning (She's a rubbish driver) and moaning that the brakes didn't work properly. My dad never had any problems in this respect. I remember several trips from where we lived in the Scottish highlands to Glasgow to get the thing fixed when the suspension failed to lift up (80 bumpy miles of my dad complaining about French engineering)
There was also the fond memory of going to the cash and carry in Glasgow to buy stock for our shop and then off to the station to collect my grandmother. Upon returning to the car someone had smashed one of the rear windows of the citroen and stolen the 3 black bags of rubbish that we were taking to the tip. (They left the stock that my parents bought earlier that day)
Great cars and many memories and its good to see some of them being saved.
Here's what I was so excited to see at the NEC:
Think my Dad's was a bit more basic than that. Don't remember it having a vinyl roof, nor fabric seats, but I'm pretty sure it was that shade of orange!
No Kadetts there, sadly. Not even a mk1 Astra in fact, but plenty of Marinas. None in blue though, and none with a piano on the bonnet.
On, and no BXs. A disgrace, frankly!
Think my Dad's was a bit more basic than that. Don't remember it having a vinyl roof, nor fabric seats, but I'm pretty sure it was that shade of orange!
No Kadetts there, sadly. Not even a mk1 Astra in fact, but plenty of Marinas. None in blue though, and none with a piano on the bonnet.
On, and no BXs. A disgrace, frankly!
I'm delighted to see I'm not the only person with a strange love of what is franky 80s rubbish.
My personal favourites (mostly connected with my early childhood) are as follows:
Citroen BX - had several in the family, from A through to J reg
Citroen Visa - first new car in the family (C65 RNJ) was a red Visa 17RD, we also had an E reg Visa GTi which I would love one of for myself
Talbot Horizon - no idea why I liked these, but never owned one
Fiat Tipo - spent a few weeks driving one, it has no appeal to any normal human but I like it. I know someone with a Sedicivalvole which would be awesome
Renault 9 or 11 - again, not sure why, I just like old French tat
Peugeot 505 - we never had one but lots of friend's families did (it was the only alternative to a W123/W124) and I still like them and want one
Maybe I need to get help. Or buy one of your BXs...
My personal favourites (mostly connected with my early childhood) are as follows:
Citroen BX - had several in the family, from A through to J reg
Citroen Visa - first new car in the family (C65 RNJ) was a red Visa 17RD, we also had an E reg Visa GTi which I would love one of for myself
Talbot Horizon - no idea why I liked these, but never owned one
Fiat Tipo - spent a few weeks driving one, it has no appeal to any normal human but I like it. I know someone with a Sedicivalvole which would be awesome
Renault 9 or 11 - again, not sure why, I just like old French tat
Peugeot 505 - we never had one but lots of friend's families did (it was the only alternative to a W123/W124) and I still like them and want one
Maybe I need to get help. Or buy one of your BXs...
jamiebae said:
I'm delighted to see I'm not the only person with a strange love of what is franky 80s rubbish.
My personal favourites (mostly connected with my early childhood) are as follows:
Citroen BX - had several in the family, from A through to J reg
Citroen Visa - first new car in the family (C65 RNJ) was a red Visa 17RD, we also had an E reg Visa GTi which I would love one of for myself
Talbot Horizon - no idea why I liked these, but never owned one
Fiat Tipo - spent a few weeks driving one, it has no appeal to any normal human but I like it. I know someone with a Sedicivalvole which would be awesome
Renault 9 or 11 - again, not sure why, I just like old French tat
Peugeot 505 - we never had one but lots of friend's families did (it was the only alternative to a W123/W124) and I still like them and want one
Maybe I need to get help. Or buy one of your BXs...
Yup, this kind of thing does it for me more than the Porsches, BMWs and expensive new performance cars that litter the place.My personal favourites (mostly connected with my early childhood) are as follows:
Citroen BX - had several in the family, from A through to J reg
Citroen Visa - first new car in the family (C65 RNJ) was a red Visa 17RD, we also had an E reg Visa GTi which I would love one of for myself
Talbot Horizon - no idea why I liked these, but never owned one
Fiat Tipo - spent a few weeks driving one, it has no appeal to any normal human but I like it. I know someone with a Sedicivalvole which would be awesome
Renault 9 or 11 - again, not sure why, I just like old French tat
Peugeot 505 - we never had one but lots of friend's families did (it was the only alternative to a W123/W124) and I still like them and want one
Maybe I need to get help. Or buy one of your BXs...
I'd happily point out that the BX was actually a very good 80's car though
Certainly if the Autocar roadtests are anything to go by. Seem to remember the Tipo was a bit of a game changer too. The picture up top of A63RPO outside my cousins' house in Bury would have had a dark green Tipo slightly out of shot, or possible in the garage.Kitchski said:
Yup, this kind of thing does it for me more than the Porsches, BMWs and expensive new performance cars that litter the place.
I'd happily point out that the BX was actually a very good 80's car though Certainly if the Autocar roadtests are anything to go by. Seem to remember the Tipo was a bit of a game changer too. The picture up top of A63RPO outside my cousins' house in Bury would have had a dark green Tipo slightly out of shot, or possible in the garage.
I think they were all good cars in the 80s, they're just rubbish now I'd happily point out that the BX was actually a very good 80's car though
Certainly if the Autocar roadtests are anything to go by. Seem to remember the Tipo was a bit of a game changer too. The picture up top of A63RPO outside my cousins' house in Bury would have had a dark green Tipo slightly out of shot, or possible in the garage.
French stuff appeals to me so much more than the more valuable Fords, Vauxhalls and VWs, and although I'd love a really nice W124 in my heart I'd rather have a BX or CX. I know that a Mk1 Golf GTi is more valuable, but I'd be happier if someone gave me an immaculate Visa GTi, and I'd have an Ami before a Beetle.
Great thread, looking forward to the rest. I'm sure you're right about the long-term influence of family cars.
In 1976 or thereabouts, my Dad had to choose a new company car - me and my brother wanted him to get a Lancia Beta Berlina as it had 4 doors, and IIRC a heater outlet in the back which seemed like the height of luxury. But his allowable budget JUST stretched to an optionless E21 BMW 316 and that's what he picked - it was tiny in the back and only had 2 doors FFS ! Of course in due time we realised that it was actually a better car, and he was right all along. I've owned <fx: counts> 6 BMWs myself since then and my P&J is still a 3 series, albeit a slightly more special version.
jamiebae said:
I think they were all good cars in the 80s, they're just rubbish now
Ah yeah, I knew what you meant. Was only teasing!That said, I think one of the reasons the BX is under my skin so much, aside from the childhood ties, is the fact that should I use it daily in the present day, it still does a good job. My 16v was in daily service recently, and it's amazing how competent it is. Ride's great (better than anything else I own, except this TRS when that's done), economy's pretty good (certainly matches my 2005 Saab), heater's effective and it has things like heated mirrors for cold morning starts - there's not much it struggles at.
Only reason I don't use it daily is that I want to preserve it for as long as possible, and by using it daily I wear it out much more, coupled to the fact if I had a smash in it and I had my kids in it, there's a chance we'd all be much worse off compared with a more modern car.
Plus I get paranoid about some scrote driving into it, or breaking into it with a plastic screwdriver and nicking it for joyride!
Used to get picked up from school sometimes by mates mum who had a cream coloured d reg BX19RD. Remember thinking hoe much more advanced it seemed compared with dad's Montego (this was late 80s). Think it was sold after it has lost its hydraulic fluid one too many times causing the brakes to fail. Was swapped for a boring Laguna I think.
Used to get picked up from school sometimes by mates mum who had a cream coloured d reg BX19RD. Remember thinking hoe much more advanced it seemed compared with dad's Montego (this was late 80s). Think it was sold after it has lost its hydraulic fluid one too many times causing the brakes to fail. Was swapped for a boring Laguna I think.
jamiebae said:
I'm delighted to see I'm not the only person with a strange love of what is franky 80s rubbish.
My personal favourites (mostly connected with my early childhood) are as follows:
Citroen BX - had several in the family, from A through to J reg
Citroen Visa - first new car in the family (C65 RNJ) was a red Visa 17RD, we also had an E reg Visa GTi which I would love one of for myself
Talbot Horizon - no idea why I liked these, but never owned one
Fiat Tipo - spent a few weeks driving one, it has no appeal to any normal human but I like it. I know someone with a Sedicivalvole which would be awesome
Renault 9 or 11 - again, not sure why, I just like old French tat
Peugeot 505 - we never had one but lots of friend's families did (it was the only alternative to a W123/W124) and I still like them and want one
Maybe I need to get help. Or buy one of your BXs...
It isnt, and never was rubbish, you thread shows why, it is just what the bulk of people had back in the day but nobody tends to save, so fair play for having the interest and enthusiasm to save something that isnt a BMW, Porsche or something else that is nice, but predictable.My personal favourites (mostly connected with my early childhood) are as follows:
Citroen BX - had several in the family, from A through to J reg
Citroen Visa - first new car in the family (C65 RNJ) was a red Visa 17RD, we also had an E reg Visa GTi which I would love one of for myself
Talbot Horizon - no idea why I liked these, but never owned one
Fiat Tipo - spent a few weeks driving one, it has no appeal to any normal human but I like it. I know someone with a Sedicivalvole which would be awesome
Renault 9 or 11 - again, not sure why, I just like old French tat
Peugeot 505 - we never had one but lots of friend's families did (it was the only alternative to a W123/W124) and I still like them and want one
Maybe I need to get help. Or buy one of your BXs...
Great story, thanks OP.
I needed a stopgap once and dug a grey BX Gti out of a neighbours garage where it had been mouldering. I recall it had a nice black leather interior and aircon that almost worked. It ran fine, although a throttle body problem caused the accelerator to stick open if pushed passed a certain point. To my shame when I eventually demonstrated it to the next buyer I made sure I never approached the point where it stuck open
SS7
I needed a stopgap once and dug a grey BX Gti out of a neighbours garage where it had been mouldering. I recall it had a nice black leather interior and aircon that almost worked. It ran fine, although a throttle body problem caused the accelerator to stick open if pushed passed a certain point. To my shame when I eventually demonstrated it to the next buyer I made sure I never approached the point where it stuck open
SS7
(Nov '15) Well time for some nitty-gritty anyway!
So, the TRS is now back at my house after my eventful day with it in July last year. Sit-rep between July last year and July this year:
Progress made: None.
Parts obtained: A set of steel wheels with 500mile-old Michelins fitted, to replace the 32yr old Michelins fitted to the car. The steel rims are from a later BX TZD Turbo, with a wider rim and a slightly smaller offset, and though the car appears to be a normal ride height, it is, in fact, propped up by big lumps of timber!
Do the new wheels fit?: No, not on the back (and one of the wheels is seized on, anyway). No big deal - I want to keep the 1983 steelies!
Additional cars bought: Two!
Status of TRS: Exactly as before, only it now no longer runs.
If I'm honest, I had a wobbler and decided I have too many projects on the go. I listed the TRS for sale in early summer 2015, but thankfully with no takers (largely because I wanted to try and recoup my costs on the travelling and the cost of the wheels). I'm now relieved it didn't sell!
So, in July of this year the decision was made to relocate the BX to my workshop, and bring one of my other wrecks back here in its place. The BX arrived at Southways on the 14th July:
First things first, I needed to get the car running again, so I could identify the LHM leak and see if I could repair it enough to recommission the system and see how everything else fared. Otherwise, I'd have to pull the whole thing apart and risk refitting parts I've never tested before, only to possibly find they don't work.
I suspected the Weber DRTC carb was the culprit. It was obviously carrying that horrible manual choke conversion, and probably a fair bit of internal corrosion from sitting around for years and years. In the time it sat in my garage, it went from running poorly to not running poorly. Or at all. Bugger.
Luckily I had another DRTC 32-34 in my spares stash, complete with autochoke unit! I didn't realise I did, until I moved my BX 16v from my parents garage earlier in the year and found it among a pile of bits my Dad was hoping I'd finally removed from their garage, having moved out 8 years beforehand. Still don't remember how I got it - was probably part of a project to make an AX GT use more fuel and not go much quicker. And the icing on the cake - I found a brand new carb rebuilt kit in the glovebox of the TRS! I think the guy I got it off bought it with the intention of sorting out the carb, but never did.
So the carbs were set side by side, and though I wanted to keep the 16 all original, I was prepared to make a good carb out of the two (my spare carb being from a mk2). The original may have only done 17k miles, but corrosion is not bound by mileage:
The original carb with manual conversion:
Progress:
Good carb built up and fitted:
It runs (properly this time, on autochoke)! Only you can't tell, because the rev counter doesn't work:
So, having got the engine running again (and very sweetly it runs too) my attentions turned to the retention of green blood, or more specifically, the lack of it. Because the TRS has been off the road for so many years, and because all the high pressure pipes on an early BX aren't really protective coated, most of them have turned to rust. During my day of horrors (the day I picked it up and was introduced to the leak) I discovered that it emanated from the front subframe area. On a BX subframe-area LHM leak, you think octopus (bundle of rubber hoses that run up the offside chassis rail and are nicknamed the Octopus, because of reasons, it's resemblance to the tentacled creature of the sea seemingly not one of them). However, because it was having trouble even pressurising, I figured it was more likely a high-pressure line failure. So, I had to run the car up, tighten up the bleed screw on the pressure regulator, and see what came out. It didn't take long:
Ah, that'll be those pipes then. The ones that break into multiple pieces of pipe when you touch them:
Realistically, it now seems at least half the car needs re-piping (not entirely surprising, frankly). Knowing that the front subframe needs to come off, I'll leave that for a later date and busy myself with something less messy. Wheels, I think:
Tyres removed (kept one for a spare; seemed a shame to bin one of the original Michelins, though hope I never need to use it!) I then began to set about each wheel in the grit-blaster. Plan is full blast, prep and paint with POR15 and then prime, before finding a matching light grey to the original finish.
30mins in the blaster, one of the wheels laughed at me, and I realised it's not going to happen like I planned:
Most of the coating still there! Quick chat with the Wheel Specialist in Fareham confirmed they're probably originally coated in a form of powder, which the shot is softening with the heat caused by friction and is then bouncing off of. He suggested they be acid-dipped, and though I wanted to do them myself, I think I'm going to have to relent and give them to him.
So, with the wheels a failure currently, I found some others to roll it over to the two-post ramp on, and decided now is as good a time as any to just dive in on that subframe:
The hubs and brakes are a bit.....stored on a Swansea driveway for decades-looking:
As are the brake pipe mounting brackets:
It's all looking a bit....meh:
Then I blew across the subframe with the air line, and this happened:
Very meh!
More meh:
So, the subframe needs to come out then! I had a feeling this was the case, though there are reasons why I was hoping that it would be ok, which I'll get on to later. In the meantime I start removing the brakes, and immediately hit a French WTF moment:
So, having failed to remove the pent-headed bolt, as I don't have any FRENCH-FIVE-SIDED-BLOODY-SOCKETS (because I'm not a masochist) I remove some 32 year old gearbox oil instead:
MMmmmm....smells yummy!
Before removing the inner wheel arches to see what horrors lay underneath. I've already got loads to do on this car, so surely a bit more is in order? Well, no, thankfully!:
Aside from the end caps of the sills, a rub down, treat and paint, and she's good to go! This is a relief, as BXs like to rust around the inner wings. This car has the benefit of not having a factory sunroof fitted, which means there are no drainage tubes going down the A-pillar box sections, which like to block up and retain moisture, rotting the thing from inside-out.
One of the first items out, the front/rear crossbrace fitted to mk1 BXs:
Bit manky! Structurally of no importance at all, as Citroen ditched it for the mk2. It seems its only purpose was to destroy the front subframe in the event of a minor bump. I will put it back in though, because it's a mk1 and all that.
We're getting there, though! Lots of bolts that haven't been removed in 32 years, but on the whole it actually played ball for the most part. I don't think I sheered a single bolt underneath:
Obviously to remove a front subframe, you need to remove the front seats. Obviously. I mean why not? It's obvious:
Totally by the by: The alarm keyfob that used to be on my Dad's keyring for 'RPO'. I've got the rear number plate, this, and a graphic equaliser from it, which will probably find it's way on somewhere:
With the car having no service history at all, even finding this piece of wet & dry with red overspray on, along with an old tax disc from 1998 gives me something:
The reason for taking the seats out:
Had to pop the plastic. Boo
:
Subframe lowering:
Subframe off:
Oh dear:
Rubber steering coupling is not really coupling the steering together anymore, Understandable, what with the age and the outdoor living for all this time, but they're not easy to find!:
Gives a bit more room to sort some of the remaining bits under there, like cambelt, more suspension pipes, gear linkage and suspension height linkage overhaul and more:
Stripping the subframe down ready to get it shot blasted:
Wishbone bushes seem ok, but will probably fail within weeks of first being used:
The infamous bearing!:
When the BX first came out in 1982 (mid '83 for UK cars) the cars featured a subframe design incorporating a wishbone fitted with conventional bushes, and a bearing in the subframe through which the wishbone could pivot on a spindle. The idea being that the bushes take care of the shock loadings and NVH, and the bearings take care of suspension movement. Seems ideal, really, however Citroen dropped this idea in September 1985, reverting to a more conventional design where the bush acts as the pivot too, meaning that not only was the bearing subframe only fitted to mk1 models, it was also only fitted to the initial models. My Dad's GT, for example, has the later conventional bush setup, but is still a mk1 subframe. Because the TRS is so painfully original, I want to try and preserve everything, including the bearing subframe, even though most of the early cars have long since had their bearing subframes binned and been retrofitted with the later bush version (which is possibly what happened to Dad's GT)
For now, because the subframe is marginal on the viability of rescuing it, I've bunged the bearings up with some Sierra anti-roll bar cup washers (perfect fit, result!) In any case, the bearings currently in there are totally screwed, presumably due to it sitting on low for years and years. And even assuming I can keep the bearing setup, there is the issue that you need a special tool to remove the bearings......which I don't have!
Here we have a wishbone from the TRS and a wishbone from the GT:
The GT uses different bushes, same as any BX from Sept 1985 onwards, along with a 16mm diameter spindle, not 14mm like the bearing type. This additionally means the bushes in the wishbone are also unique to the older car, and probably now impossible to find.
I send the subframe away, and decide to remove the front bumper to gain some access to the front panel, which needs stripping and treating in the meantime. Ten M6 scerws to undo, and the bumper should gracefully part with the car.
Nope.
What I actually have is four M6 screws, four M6 speed nuts in the front panel and then six lumps of M6 screw & speed nut-shaped pieces of corrosion. The bolts turn, oh yes. Problem is the nuts do too, and there's no access to them. So it's out with Mr Drill, and try not to melt the bumper!:
These played ball, amazingly:
I'll attack the lower ones another day!
The subframe is back from the blasters:
And knackered. Yay! But, not too knackered. It's fixable. And so, it begins:
And that's where we're up to. More when it happens!
So, the TRS is now back at my house after my eventful day with it in July last year. Sit-rep between July last year and July this year:
Progress made: None.
Parts obtained: A set of steel wheels with 500mile-old Michelins fitted, to replace the 32yr old Michelins fitted to the car. The steel rims are from a later BX TZD Turbo, with a wider rim and a slightly smaller offset, and though the car appears to be a normal ride height, it is, in fact, propped up by big lumps of timber!
Do the new wheels fit?: No, not on the back (and one of the wheels is seized on, anyway). No big deal - I want to keep the 1983 steelies!
Additional cars bought: Two!
Status of TRS: Exactly as before, only it now no longer runs.
If I'm honest, I had a wobbler and decided I have too many projects on the go. I listed the TRS for sale in early summer 2015, but thankfully with no takers (largely because I wanted to try and recoup my costs on the travelling and the cost of the wheels). I'm now relieved it didn't sell!
So, in July of this year the decision was made to relocate the BX to my workshop, and bring one of my other wrecks back here in its place. The BX arrived at Southways on the 14th July:
First things first, I needed to get the car running again, so I could identify the LHM leak and see if I could repair it enough to recommission the system and see how everything else fared. Otherwise, I'd have to pull the whole thing apart and risk refitting parts I've never tested before, only to possibly find they don't work.
I suspected the Weber DRTC carb was the culprit. It was obviously carrying that horrible manual choke conversion, and probably a fair bit of internal corrosion from sitting around for years and years. In the time it sat in my garage, it went from running poorly to not running poorly. Or at all. Bugger.
Luckily I had another DRTC 32-34 in my spares stash, complete with autochoke unit! I didn't realise I did, until I moved my BX 16v from my parents garage earlier in the year and found it among a pile of bits my Dad was hoping I'd finally removed from their garage, having moved out 8 years beforehand. Still don't remember how I got it - was probably part of a project to make an AX GT use more fuel and not go much quicker. And the icing on the cake - I found a brand new carb rebuilt kit in the glovebox of the TRS! I think the guy I got it off bought it with the intention of sorting out the carb, but never did.
So the carbs were set side by side, and though I wanted to keep the 16 all original, I was prepared to make a good carb out of the two (my spare carb being from a mk2). The original may have only done 17k miles, but corrosion is not bound by mileage:
The original carb with manual conversion:
Progress:
Good carb built up and fitted:
It runs (properly this time, on autochoke)! Only you can't tell, because the rev counter doesn't work:
So, having got the engine running again (and very sweetly it runs too) my attentions turned to the retention of green blood, or more specifically, the lack of it. Because the TRS has been off the road for so many years, and because all the high pressure pipes on an early BX aren't really protective coated, most of them have turned to rust. During my day of horrors (the day I picked it up and was introduced to the leak) I discovered that it emanated from the front subframe area. On a BX subframe-area LHM leak, you think octopus (bundle of rubber hoses that run up the offside chassis rail and are nicknamed the Octopus, because of reasons, it's resemblance to the tentacled creature of the sea seemingly not one of them). However, because it was having trouble even pressurising, I figured it was more likely a high-pressure line failure. So, I had to run the car up, tighten up the bleed screw on the pressure regulator, and see what came out. It didn't take long:
Ah, that'll be those pipes then. The ones that break into multiple pieces of pipe when you touch them:
Realistically, it now seems at least half the car needs re-piping (not entirely surprising, frankly). Knowing that the front subframe needs to come off, I'll leave that for a later date and busy myself with something less messy. Wheels, I think:
Tyres removed (kept one for a spare; seemed a shame to bin one of the original Michelins, though hope I never need to use it!) I then began to set about each wheel in the grit-blaster. Plan is full blast, prep and paint with POR15 and then prime, before finding a matching light grey to the original finish.
30mins in the blaster, one of the wheels laughed at me, and I realised it's not going to happen like I planned:
Most of the coating still there! Quick chat with the Wheel Specialist in Fareham confirmed they're probably originally coated in a form of powder, which the shot is softening with the heat caused by friction and is then bouncing off of. He suggested they be acid-dipped, and though I wanted to do them myself, I think I'm going to have to relent and give them to him.
So, with the wheels a failure currently, I found some others to roll it over to the two-post ramp on, and decided now is as good a time as any to just dive in on that subframe:
The hubs and brakes are a bit.....stored on a Swansea driveway for decades-looking:
As are the brake pipe mounting brackets:
It's all looking a bit....meh:
Then I blew across the subframe with the air line, and this happened:
Very meh!
More meh:
So, the subframe needs to come out then! I had a feeling this was the case, though there are reasons why I was hoping that it would be ok, which I'll get on to later. In the meantime I start removing the brakes, and immediately hit a French WTF moment:
So, having failed to remove the pent-headed bolt, as I don't have any FRENCH-FIVE-SIDED-BLOODY-SOCKETS (because I'm not a masochist) I remove some 32 year old gearbox oil instead:
MMmmmm....smells yummy!
Before removing the inner wheel arches to see what horrors lay underneath. I've already got loads to do on this car, so surely a bit more is in order? Well, no, thankfully!:
Aside from the end caps of the sills, a rub down, treat and paint, and she's good to go! This is a relief, as BXs like to rust around the inner wings. This car has the benefit of not having a factory sunroof fitted, which means there are no drainage tubes going down the A-pillar box sections, which like to block up and retain moisture, rotting the thing from inside-out.
One of the first items out, the front/rear crossbrace fitted to mk1 BXs:
Bit manky! Structurally of no importance at all, as Citroen ditched it for the mk2. It seems its only purpose was to destroy the front subframe in the event of a minor bump. I will put it back in though, because it's a mk1 and all that.
We're getting there, though! Lots of bolts that haven't been removed in 32 years, but on the whole it actually played ball for the most part. I don't think I sheered a single bolt underneath:
Obviously to remove a front subframe, you need to remove the front seats. Obviously. I mean why not? It's obvious:
Totally by the by: The alarm keyfob that used to be on my Dad's keyring for 'RPO'. I've got the rear number plate, this, and a graphic equaliser from it, which will probably find it's way on somewhere:
With the car having no service history at all, even finding this piece of wet & dry with red overspray on, along with an old tax disc from 1998 gives me something:
The reason for taking the seats out:
Had to pop the plastic. Boo
:Subframe lowering:
Subframe off:
Oh dear:
Rubber steering coupling is not really coupling the steering together anymore, Understandable, what with the age and the outdoor living for all this time, but they're not easy to find!:
Gives a bit more room to sort some of the remaining bits under there, like cambelt, more suspension pipes, gear linkage and suspension height linkage overhaul and more:
Stripping the subframe down ready to get it shot blasted:
Wishbone bushes seem ok, but will probably fail within weeks of first being used:
The infamous bearing!:
When the BX first came out in 1982 (mid '83 for UK cars) the cars featured a subframe design incorporating a wishbone fitted with conventional bushes, and a bearing in the subframe through which the wishbone could pivot on a spindle. The idea being that the bushes take care of the shock loadings and NVH, and the bearings take care of suspension movement. Seems ideal, really, however Citroen dropped this idea in September 1985, reverting to a more conventional design where the bush acts as the pivot too, meaning that not only was the bearing subframe only fitted to mk1 models, it was also only fitted to the initial models. My Dad's GT, for example, has the later conventional bush setup, but is still a mk1 subframe. Because the TRS is so painfully original, I want to try and preserve everything, including the bearing subframe, even though most of the early cars have long since had their bearing subframes binned and been retrofitted with the later bush version (which is possibly what happened to Dad's GT)
For now, because the subframe is marginal on the viability of rescuing it, I've bunged the bearings up with some Sierra anti-roll bar cup washers (perfect fit, result!) In any case, the bearings currently in there are totally screwed, presumably due to it sitting on low for years and years. And even assuming I can keep the bearing setup, there is the issue that you need a special tool to remove the bearings......which I don't have!
Here we have a wishbone from the TRS and a wishbone from the GT:
The GT uses different bushes, same as any BX from Sept 1985 onwards, along with a 16mm diameter spindle, not 14mm like the bearing type. This additionally means the bushes in the wishbone are also unique to the older car, and probably now impossible to find.
I send the subframe away, and decide to remove the front bumper to gain some access to the front panel, which needs stripping and treating in the meantime. Ten M6 scerws to undo, and the bumper should gracefully part with the car.
Nope.
What I actually have is four M6 screws, four M6 speed nuts in the front panel and then six lumps of M6 screw & speed nut-shaped pieces of corrosion. The bolts turn, oh yes. Problem is the nuts do too, and there's no access to them. So it's out with Mr Drill, and try not to melt the bumper!:
These played ball, amazingly:
I'll attack the lower ones another day!
The subframe is back from the blasters:
And knackered. Yay! But, not too knackered. It's fixable. And so, it begins:
And that's where we're up to. More when it happens!
Edited by Kitchski on Wednesday 25th April 19:24
jamiebae said:
My Dad had a hydraulic line fail on the M1 once. I'm sure it seemed a wonderful idea at the time, but when a single failure leaves you with no PAS, suspension or brakes then something got screwed up at the design phase...
Any different to having a brake line failure on a conventional car? End result is the same - you break down.I think my Dad also had a line fail on his XM, but we think it was because the car beached itself at the beach (honestly!) the week before when it sank on a stoney mound, and likely damaged one of the pipes. Most hydraulic failures on pipe are down to damage anyway, aside from the older stuff where the pipes weren't very well protected, like on this car.
You do have some reserve pressure in the accumulator sphere too, so it's not a case of 'Suddenly, no brakes!' The suspension sinks first, which is fine as it's not as critical as the steering or brakes. The steering goes heavy next, then followed by the brakes, but only after you've exhausted the pressure after a few prods of the pedal (again, same as exhausting the servo pressure if your engine cuts out). By this point the STOP light has been screaming at you for 30secs or so, and if you continue to drive after a warning lamp tells you to stop, you're gonna have a bad time! Sadly, lots of people did.
Really enjoying this write up, I seem to like the less 'exotic' end of the PH restoration threads for some reason.
I do admire your perseverance, one look at the frilly subframe would have me calling the scrapper frankly, which would be a shame. I'm glad you're carrying on, even though rationally it makes no sense at all
I do admire your perseverance, one look at the frilly subframe would have me calling the scrapper frankly, which would be a shame. I'm glad you're carrying on, even though rationally it makes no sense at all
Mark Benson said:
Really enjoying this write up, I seem to like the less 'exotic' end of the PH restoration threads for some reason.
I do admire your perseverance, one look at the frilly subframe would have me calling the scrapper frankly, which would be a shame. I'm glad you're carrying on, even though rationally it makes no sense at all
Well, I could just bolt another subframe onto it. That would be the rational thing to do. I even have one which I could use.I do admire your perseverance, one look at the frilly subframe would have me calling the scrapper frankly, which would be a shame. I'm glad you're carrying on, even though rationally it makes no sense at all
The irrational part of me wants it to be right, with the bearing-type subframe it's supposed to have. At a guess, half of the cars still existing from the first two years of production have probably been converted to the later type by now. Even Citroen used to retro-fit the newer ones if the cars needed a new wishbone bush or something.
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