Rover 200 BRM - 1.8 K-Series turbo project
Discussion
RemyMartin said:
Can I say....ITB?
That really would be something but would be overkill on this build I think. If it was a track toy or race car I would consider it. Incidentally I know someone who had recently looked into fitting Jenveys to a k-turbo. Jenvey were interested in helping put something together but it's for a time attack elise and only if they aim for 500bhp plus.On my humble road car I'd be spending a lot of money to get something less driveable on the road.
Gods imagine the sound though!
For peace of mind, in advance of the mapping, I thought I would rig myself up a boost leak tester. The boosting and dumping sound doesn't sound the same as it did before the head change and I've got some time while I wait for the mapping so it's worth doing.
Pretty simple concept. Feed controlled compressed air to the intake and listen for leaks.
I basically bodged a male quick-connect compressor fitting into an aerosol lid that fit my inlet pipework perfectly. Because Rover.
Started off with 5psi from the regulated side of my compressor. The result was frankly astounding.
The big leak that was immediately obvious was where the brake servo pipe meets the inlet manifold. Air was literally pouring out! Closer inspection revealed a missing o-ring! Luckily I had a spare plastic mpi manifold that users the same fittings so that was an easy fix.
Next up were 4 separate leaks from various boost clamps primary of which was where the inlet pipework meets the throttle body. These were sorted with tightened/upgraded clamps.
Finally, the throttle body itself has a small leak from where the cable retaining body fits on. I guess it's a failed seal what's the shaft enters the throttle body. Don't know if that can even be changed but easist fix is just to change the throttle body. It's a really small leak and barely noticeable below 15 psi so might wait until after first mapping session.
Tested up to 20 psi and no other leaks. Glad I took the time to do this. Roll on mapping!
Pretty simple concept. Feed controlled compressed air to the intake and listen for leaks.
I basically bodged a male quick-connect compressor fitting into an aerosol lid that fit my inlet pipework perfectly. Because Rover.
Started off with 5psi from the regulated side of my compressor. The result was frankly astounding.
The big leak that was immediately obvious was where the brake servo pipe meets the inlet manifold. Air was literally pouring out! Closer inspection revealed a missing o-ring! Luckily I had a spare plastic mpi manifold that users the same fittings so that was an easy fix.
Next up were 4 separate leaks from various boost clamps primary of which was where the inlet pipework meets the throttle body. These were sorted with tightened/upgraded clamps.
Finally, the throttle body itself has a small leak from where the cable retaining body fits on. I guess it's a failed seal what's the shaft enters the throttle body. Don't know if that can even be changed but easist fix is just to change the throttle body. It's a really small leak and barely noticeable below 15 psi so might wait until after first mapping session.
Tested up to 20 psi and no other leaks. Glad I took the time to do this. Roll on mapping!
Shadow R1 said:
That's a good idea, saved loads of time at the mapping chasing faults.
The T5 had a boost leak, they used a smoke machine to pressurise the system, then could see where it was coming from, spilt hose but could only see once it was pressurised.
Yeah some clever bits of kit our there. Fortunately my leaks are so bad I could just hear them!The T5 had a boost leak, they used a smoke machine to pressurise the system, then could see where it was coming from, spilt hose but could only see once it was pressurised.
I think it's positive it that even with these leaks, dodgy VVC mechanisms and an incomplete map, it was still making 190bhp at 8psi.
Can't wait to see what it's capable of when everything is working!
I have just read the whole thread. Love the project. I had a BRM that was unfortunately Cat C'd and scrapped at about 5 years old. I loved the thing. I did some simple stuff like a 52mm TB, filter and exhaust but it was a very capable car out of the box, and it surprised a few people.
The seats were among the least supportive/most slippery seats I've ever been in though. With 300BHP, that's going to be fun!
The seats were among the least supportive/most slippery seats I've ever been in though. With 300BHP, that's going to be fun!
Tahiti said:
I have just read the whole thread. Love the project. I had a BRM that was unfortunately Cat C'd and scrapped at about 5 years old. I loved the thing. I did some simple stuff like a 52mm TB, filter and exhaust but it was a very capable car out of the box, and it surprised a few people.
The seats were among the least supportive/most slippery seats I've ever been in though. With 300BHP, that's going to be fun!
Thanks! The seats were among the least supportive/most slippery seats I've ever been in though. With 300BHP, that's going to be fun!
As standard they are a quick car. Lots of fun and the modest power let's you thrash it and still be at sensible speeds. It makes for a very rewarding drive and there's a lot to be said for that. The chassis is impressive too. I do worry I may have compromised that somewhat with my mods but nothing I have done is irreversible. Ultimately I may go for road-biased coilovers.
You're right about the seats. On a track day I would be fighting to stay in the seat. Should be fine on the road though. The red leather interior is so important to the character of the car but I do wonder if a bucket seat could be trimmed in similar quilted red leather....
Mapping booked for next Monday. Just have to change the oil and filter and change the exhaust manifold gasket. I'll also swap out the leaky throttle body if the replacement arrives in time. It would be nice to know I have zero boost leaks going into the mapping.
Caddyshack said:
I don't think you would get the normal throttle body roar with a forced induction. I may be wrong though.
you won't.I does improve throttle response, especially for supercharged cars.
It allows you to get away with hotter cams to access higher revs, even on turbocharged cars, without messing with idle. VVC is an other way of doing this, but then the Rover VVC would benefit from shorter runners to make more power above 6000 rpm.
There is one turbocharged Rover K Elise with throttle bodies I know off in the UK.
Stuballs said:
On my humble road car I'd be spending a lot of money to get something less driveable on the road.
Gods imagine the sound though!
More driveable! See below:Gods imagine the sound though!
Ive said:
I does improve throttle response, especially for supercharged cars.
It allows you to get away with hotter cams to access higher revs, even on turbocharged cars, without messing with idle. VVC is another way of doing this, but then the Rover VVC would benefit from shorter runners to make more power above 6000 rpm.
There is one turbocharged Rover K Elise with throttle bodies I know off in the UK.
I bet they aren't easy to set up though.It allows you to get away with hotter cams to access higher revs, even on turbocharged cars, without messing with idle. VVC is another way of doing this, but then the Rover VVC would benefit from shorter runners to make more power above 6000 rpm.
There is one turbocharged Rover K Elise with throttle bodies I know off in the UK.
I've long since wondered about these pressure testers, they fall down because you've always got an inlet valve open so the air just rushes through and it won't pressurise. Did you pay much attention to where the cams were positioned or just blow so much air in and had such big leaks it showed up anyhow?
227bhp said:
I bet they aren't easy to set up though.
I've long since wondered about these pressure testers, they fall down because you've always got an inlet valve open so the air just rushes through and it won't pressurise. Did you pay much attention to where the cams were positioned or just blow so much air in and had such big leaks it showed up anyhow?
Well spotted! I set the engine to 90 degrees btdc so that each cylinder would, at most, either have inlet or exhaust valves open but not both. With an inlet open you do have the potential for tiny leakage past the rings but it's minimal and not enough to stop you finding boost leaks.I've long since wondered about these pressure testers, they fall down because you've always got an inlet valve open so the air just rushes through and it won't pressurise. Did you pay much attention to where the cams were positioned or just blow so much air in and had such big leaks it showed up anyhow?
Another option is to only test up to the throttle body, and blank off the inlet there. But all my leaks were after the throttle body so that would not have helped me!
Stuballs said:
227bhp said:
I bet they aren't easy to set up though.
I've long since wondered about these pressure testers, they fall down because you've always got an inlet valve open so the air just rushes through and it won't pressurise. Did you pay much attention to where the cams were positioned or just blow so much air in and had such big leaks it showed up anyhow?
Well spotted! I set the engine to 90 degrees btdc so that each cylinder would, at most, either have inlet or exhaust valves open but not both. With an inlet open you do have the potential for tiny leakage past the rings but it's minimal and not enough to stop you finding boost leaks.I've long since wondered about these pressure testers, they fall down because you've always got an inlet valve open so the air just rushes through and it won't pressurise. Did you pay much attention to where the cams were positioned or just blow so much air in and had such big leaks it showed up anyhow?
Another option is to only test up to the throttle body, and blank off the inlet there. But all my leaks were after the throttle body so that would not have helped me!
Enjoying the thread and your work btw, do you do this for a job?
227bhp said:
Good answer
Enjoying the thread and your work btw, do you do this for a job?
Thanks. Glad you're enjoying it. I'm certainly enjoying sharing it. Enjoying the thread and your work btw, do you do this for a job?
I'm not a trained mechanic I've just always enjoyed tinkering with cars and bikes and figuring these things out for myself. This project was as much about expanding my own knowledge and having fun as it was about the end result. Frustrated engineer I guess.
Stuballs said:
You're right about the seats. On a track day I would be fighting to stay in the seat. Should be fine on the road though. The red leather interior is so important to the character of the car but I do wonder if a bucket seat could be trimmed in similar quilted red leather....
I like your thinking. And completely agree about the red being part of the character. Some Focus RS type Recaros retrimmed sounds like a good option if budgets stretch.Going in for mapping tomorrow morning. Should be a short session just to get the run in map finished. Not chasing power yet. 8psi for now.
So spent the weekend sorting out a few loose ends. Fitted a brand new 52mm throttle body as the old one had a leak from the butterfly pivot. Repeated boost leak test and have zero leakage now tested up to 20psi.
Changed oil and filter again. This is the third lot it's on now and the engine only has 60 miles on it!
Also changed exhaust manifold gasket. It still ticks when it gets up to temperature so think I might have to have the manifold refaced and/or ditch the thermal gasket.
Knocked up a little shroud for the top of the cambelt. Made this myself out of stainless sheet. Gave it a quick polish and added some of the same edging trim I used on the air filter shroud. Came out nice I think.
Wish me luck!
So spent the weekend sorting out a few loose ends. Fitted a brand new 52mm throttle body as the old one had a leak from the butterfly pivot. Repeated boost leak test and have zero leakage now tested up to 20psi.
Changed oil and filter again. This is the third lot it's on now and the engine only has 60 miles on it!
Also changed exhaust manifold gasket. It still ticks when it gets up to temperature so think I might have to have the manifold refaced and/or ditch the thermal gasket.
Knocked up a little shroud for the top of the cambelt. Made this myself out of stainless sheet. Gave it a quick polish and added some of the same edging trim I used on the air filter shroud. Came out nice I think.
Wish me luck!
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff