A V8 at last - my BMW 645Ci

[Synchromesh]

McSam said:

As part of the deal, the vendor did change the gearbox oil before I took the car but I don't completely trust him so will be taking a squint at the drain and fill plugs for signs of recent movement. I understand only around half of the oil can be dropped at a time so doing it again might not be the worst move anyway.

When I read about the dealer doing the gearbox oil in the OP I was dubious. From my reading it's quite a specialist job, and needs to be done in a specific way - possibly not something I'd get a dealer to take to his mate to do in a backstreet garage. In fact, from my research, it seems the only failsafe way of doing it is by taking the car to the ZF service centre in Dortmund. It happens to be conveniently close to the Nurburgring too...

[philmots]

My BMW specialist did mine, the ZF instructions for refilling are easily available to see online, the BMW workshop software describes the same procedure.. It's actually very very basic, the only real important thing is to not let it get too hot.

You're right by only a partial flush, the torque converter and oil cooler will still hold the old oil. I did a second flush on mine as it was going in for something else anyway. I did notice a difference again. I'd be more worried the dealer used a 3rd party version of lifeguard 6 fluid. I insisted on the genuine ZF stuff.

[Synchromesh]

philmots said:

My BMW specialist did mine, the ZF instructions for refilling are easily available to see online, the BMW workshop software describes the same procedure.. It's actually very very basic, the only real important thing is to not let it get too hot.

On the other hand, ZF will fully drain the box and replace all the fluid. They're not especially expensive either (c. €400 I believe), although obviously you have to get the car to Germany.

[leglessAlex]

Fantastic looking car OP. I'm not sure if it's because they've been around so long or if Bangle was way ahead of his time but these and the five series have really been growing on me.

[Funk]

leglessAlex said:

Fantastic looking car OP. I'm not sure if it's because they've been around so long or if Bangle was way ahead of his time but these and the five series have really been growing on me.

I hated this (and the 5) when it came out but now I 'get' it. Bangle really was ahead of his time - you could release that today with a few minor tweaks and it'd still look modern. No mean achievement for a car that's been around 12 years.

[mattman]

McSam said:

This engine in a Morgan would be really quite something, never mind the bigger 4.8! Awesome.

speedster986 said:

Lovely car. I had the same exterior colour with a black interior. Loved it but it did develop a terminal gearbox problem. It may be worth considering a gearbox oil flush as a precaution.

Thanks! What was your gearbox problem? As part of the deal, the vendor did change the gearbox oil before I took the car but I don't completely trust him so will be taking a squint at the drain and fill plugs for signs of recent movement. I understand only around half of the oil can be dropped at a time so doing it again might not be the worst move anyway.

I'm hoping to get the car to a local specialist next week for a once-over, just because it's quite hard to be certain whether everything it does is exactly right.

I had a problem with mine - it showed under full acceleration on the change between 4th and 5th with a 'hard' change - a real clock noise - couple of times bad enough to throw error message on screen and go into limp home. You could drive around it once you knew it was there. The other symptom was a 'hesitation' around 30mph - doing a constant speed it would miss every 20-30 seconds like it didn't know what gear it was in. I took it to a gearbox specialist who diagnosed a failing mechtronix unit in the gearbox. It could last 20,000miles or 500 depending on how it was driven. Was quoted around £2.5k to fix it

[Granfondo]

[Granfondo]

[Granfondo]

[Dr G]

stewies_minion said:

The dull car cleaning fanatic in me would be interested to see how the smell of smoke is removed?

With enormous difficulty, I'm told - but luckily for me there isn't a perceptible smell in this car, it's just some light staining to the seats that's giving it away in this case. I'm hoping it's nothing some Gliptone cleaner and conditioner can't deal with.

If it was smelly:

http://clobberizer.net/

[parabolica]

PH won't let me post a pic (size issue) but I have the exact same car OP; although mine doesn't have the sunroof and has dark walnut + dechrome around the Windows; bought in 2013 on 65k - just passed 95k yesterday. Agree entirely with everything you've said, especially the way it drives.

Got rid of the run-flats on mine and the ride is almost perfect. It has had a lot of work down in my tenure however; gearbox + engine oil seals, new alternator and battery (after the old one left me stranded during the hottest night of the year last summer) and a few suspension bushes to rectify some appalling squeaking that developed. That said I love it and can't bear to think parting with it.

[LeoSayer]

On Parkers I see there is mention of an SMG gearbox as well as the manual and auto.

Anyone got one or driven one?

[McSam]

The styling does impress me, it was at least five years ahead of its time, perhaps more as it's only recently started to make sense. With that and all the technology and development budget thrown at what was the top-line GT car, it feels like a far newer car than its eleven years.

Synchromesh said:

When I read about the dealer doing the gearbox oil in the OP I was dubious. From my reading it's quite a specialist job, and needs to be done in a specific way - possibly not something I'd get a dealer to take to his mate to do in a backstreet garage. In fact, from my research, it seems the only failsafe way of doing it is by taking the car to the ZF service centre in Dortmund. It happens to be conveniently close to the Nurburgring too...

Well, the procedure isn't complex and is easy to find online, and the 'box is very common so I'd expect anyone experienced to know how to work with it. The main question for me is a) whether it was done at all, and b) which fluid was used. I think for peace of mind, it's worth a repeat attempt. I want to get the car in to a local specialist for a once-over anyway, so I'll talk to them about the gearbox then. You know very well that if I'm going to the 'Ring, this isn't the car I'm taking - though there is some chance I might end up over there for work, which would be a good use of this car...

Thanks for the info on your failure symptoms, mattman - it's good to know what to look out for.

Granfondo, is that your car on 18k?! It looks immaculate, as well it should! Those wheels are a rare choice that suit it really well, too.

parabolica said:

PH won't let me post a pic (size issue) but I have the exact same car OP; although mine doesn't have the sunroof and has dark walnut + dechrome around the Windows; bought in 2013 on 65k - just passed 95k yesterday. Agree entirely with everything you've said, especially the way it drives.

Got rid of the run-flats on mine and the ride is almost perfect. It has had a lot of work down in my tenure however; gearbox + engine oil seals, new alternator and battery (after the old one left me stranded during the hottest night of the year last summer) and a few suspension bushes to rectify some appalling squeaking that developed. That said I love it and can't bear to think parting with it.

That sounds excellent, please do see if you can get some photos up as I'm thinking about going for dark walnut myself - if they're too big, you could open them in something as simple as Paint and resize them to 75% or 50% to get under PH's 2MB limit. Out of interest, which suspension bushes did your car need? One thing that impressed me about the E63 as a type was that each one I test drove - on 68k, 127k and this one with 118k - felt almost totally identical in terms of ride quality and noise, so I thought perhaps they didn't chew through suspension components quite as quickly as the likes of E46s.

[johnwilliams77]

parabolica said:

PH won't let me post a pic (size issue) but I have the exact same car OP; although mine doesn't have the sunroof and has dark walnut + dechrome around the Windows; bought in 2013 on 65k - just passed 95k yesterday. Agree entirely with everything you've said, especially the way it drives.

Got rid of the run-flats on mine and the ride is almost perfect. It has had a lot of work down in my tenure however; gearbox + engine oil seals, new alternator and battery (after the old one left me stranded during the hottest night of the year last summer) and a few suspension bushes to rectify some appalling squeaking that developed. That said I love it and can't bear to think parting with it.

Whats a good price for one of these? Seems a bit all over the place.

[parabolica]

johnwilliams77 said:

Whats a good price for one of these? Seems a bit all over the place.

Mine is an early model from 2004 and I paid 9500 (decent spec, 65k and excellent condition) in 2013; that was the best price I could find at that time for that car; there were 100k+ examples going for 11k at the same time. The early model cars represent the bottom of the market in these; I reckon anything from 7k for a ropey to maybe 10k for a pristine example (there was a 8k mileage, 2004 model in the classifieds a few weeks ago for £11k - looked immaculate).

There was a LCI around 2006 and that's where the prices seem to jump up quite a bit! Car looks the same on the outside but slightly revised interior (keyless go, updated shifter and a few other tweaks). Cannot understand why theses models command a premium when the overall package is basically the same. The 630, 650 and 635d were introduced at this point, run out models of the 645 tapered off (replaced by the 5 litre).

[parabolica]

McSam said:

hat sounds excellent, please do see if you can get some photos up as I'm thinking about going for dark walnut myself - if they're too big, you could open them in something as simple as Paint and resize them to 75% or 50% to get under PH's 2MB limit. Out of interest, which suspension bushes did your car need? One thing that impressed me about the E63 as a type was that each one I test drove - on 68k, 127k and this one with 118k - felt almost totally identical in terms of ride quality and noise, so I thought perhaps they didn't chew through suspension components quite as quickly as the likes of E46s.

Managed to find a pic I had posted on another thread - don't have any of the interior but will try to get some soon. Glad to say the council plate is no longer on it either



Can't remember which bush exactly but it was a rear, inner bushing - the car was squeaking at any slight movement!

[Funk]

Out of interest, did the LCI move to the new 8-speed DCT box by any chance? That would explain the increase in price, that box is a beautiful one.

I'd still love one of these but some of the horror stories about remedial work are putting me off! I think I'll make sure that any I look at have had the work done to the gearbox etc...!

[Speed addicted]

You have to go post 2010 for the 8 speed box, it really is an amazing unit. The 6 speed in the 6 series is good but not as seamless.
The gearbox sump was replaced on mine for £300 using non BMW parts as the Indy mechanic I use has fitted 8 with no issues at all.

They can have some expensive repairs but are actually pretty good considering the age and complexity involved.

[PugwasHDJ80]

How much space is ther in the second row of seats?

Could you fit an adult in?

[Speed addicted]

Yes if they're small!
The seats are OK, headroom is low and legroom is limited. I have given people lifts and they were OK but they were both about 5'5". I'm 6'2" and my head is against the roof