My new project - Saxo VTS

My new project - Saxo VTS

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Spantney

Original Poster:

334 posts

156 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Evening all.

Here's some backstory on this one...I have lately been perusing the classifieds, autotrader, ebay, gumtree and so on looking for cars in the sub <1k bracket which might be decent enough for me and a couple of mates to use as a project car, give some TLC and a damn good track thrashing as well.

Yesterday evening I spotted an alright looking Saxo VTS that had just been listed about 100 miles away, slept on it, justified myself that if me and my mates split 3 ways for the project it would cost me less than the PlayStation 4 I had been eyeing up and should provide us with some reasonably nippy, french, lift-off oversteery fun. I've never owned a french car so thought this would either make or break my opinions on them smile This morning I made a call to the seller, who told me a lad was going to bring his VTR down as a P/X tomorrow, so if I got there before him I would have first dibs. Few calls to my mates and I'm in the car with one of them, Sussex-bound.

First impressions were good - car looked pretty clean, bit of lacquer peel on the front bumper and a scrape down one of the sills but nothing serious. Alloys looked alright too. Tyres have tread but apart from one Kuhmo the others are all cheapy numbers which may or may not provide any grip at all in the wet so no doubt 4 x decent rubber is on the cards very soon. Engine bay looked fairly tidy, apart from the worst located pod air filter I have ever seen. Then I found the stack of paperwork of all the receipts - certainly had some money spent on it. Cambelt, water pump and a brand new clutch all done in the last 6 months so thats a plus!

We then took it for a drive - Gear change was very very spongy but we did eventually find first gear and went from there. It pulled well, drove fairly well and then we tried to stop...oh god where are the brakes?!! Yeah, coming from a car with some fairly hefty brembo calipers on the front, I wasn't overly impressed by the appointment I had to make to stop the car. We survived and made it back, and decided that we were morons and should buy the car.

V5 filled out, taxed and insured and we were on our way home, my mate bravely volunteered to drive the Saxo back. I noticed that he couldnt keep up with me on the A21 so slowed down and let him catch me up. He then pulls up next to me to tell me that he lost 5th gear. Oh dear. Nurse it back at a slower pace all the way to Southend. By the time we got back to his house, he had lost 2nd, 3rd, 5th and getting into 1st is a pig but can be done. He was having to leave in 1st then change immediately into 4th to make it move. Initial thoughts from the interwebs and our fast-frog loving mate is that the linkages are all knackered so have duly ordered some fresh ones which we'll try and get installed at the weekend.

Enough waffling here's a picture (sorry its crap and only one). I'll sort some further pics out when we finally get it nursed over to mine and give it a bit of a scrub.



Details:

Citroen Saxo VTS 1.6i 16v
120,000 miles
stacks of service history, past MOT's, receipts, etc.
Fabric interior with broken A/C
Awful brakes (seriously, they are sh*t!!!)
Chav-cannon exhaust - braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap
Aftermarket head unit although sadly no massive sub in the boot (just kidding)

First plans are to:

Fit new linkages so we can hopefully get it moving properly again
Clean it up, its a bit manky.
Go through McDonalds drive-thru listening to some extreme garage

Oh and the price, £880. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that, aside from the minor setback with the gears I reckon its a pretty solid little number to tinker with!

Cheers.

Ant



moxy89

143 posts

153 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Best car I've ever owned, I had a track vts and it loved being hammered all day, fantastic little cars. Get a s1 rally's box on it and it really does make a world of difference

moxy89

143 posts

153 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Best car I've ever owned, I had a track vts and it loved being hammered all day, fantastic little cars. Get a s1 rally's box on it and it really does make a world of difference

LeeThr

3,122 posts

172 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Looks good, I've got this to use a track/road rally car...

WP_20150907_13_19_24_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr
WP_20150907_13_19_33_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr
WP_20150907_13_19_40_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr

Basically the same car in a different frock. Needs a few bits doing including a rear axle, exhaust & a box of gears, but all easily changed, there ideal for this sort of thing just because of how easy they are to work on, and can be made even easier to work on with simple things such as relocating the battery to the boot etc.

Hope yours brings you lots of fun smile

RCBRG

603 posts

142 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
do you know why the air con feels broken? because it doesn't have it....

fantastic car. i absolutely loved mine, far far more fun than a 15 year old £1k car has any right to be

Spantney

Original Poster:

334 posts

156 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
LeeThr said:
Looks good, I've got this to use a track/road rally car...

WP_20150907_13_19_24_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr
WP_20150907_13_19_33_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr
WP_20150907_13_19_40_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr

Basically the same car in a different frock. Needs a few bits doing including a rear axle, exhaust & a box of gears, but all easily changed, there ideal for this sort of thing just because of how easy they are to work on, and can be made even easier to work on with simple things such as relocating the battery to the boot etc.

Hope yours brings you lots of fun smile
Thanks man. That 106 looks awesome! I can't believe how cheap the parts are for this car already, and it does look like it'll be fairly easy to work on too. Advantage of having a fairly basic car I suppose!

RCBRG said:
do you know why the air con feels broken? because it doesn't have it....

fantastic car. i absolutely loved mine, far far more fun than a 15 year old £1k car has any right to be
That would be that then! smile What I actually meant in my dazed and confused state at 1am last night was that the heater blowers don't work at all. So will probably look to fix that!

Loads of people have said what a hoot they are to drive so I'm looking forward to getting it sorted! Cheers.

LeeThr

3,122 posts

172 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Spantney said:
LeeThr said:
Looks good, I've got this to use a track/road rally car...

WP_20150907_13_19_24_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr
WP_20150907_13_19_33_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr
WP_20150907_13_19_40_Raw by LeeThr, on Flickr

Basically the same car in a different frock. Needs a few bits doing including a rear axle, exhaust & a box of gears, but all easily changed, there ideal for this sort of thing just because of how easy they are to work on, and can be made even easier to work on with simple things such as relocating the battery to the boot etc.

Hope yours brings you lots of fun smile
Thanks man. That 106 looks awesome! I can't believe how cheap the parts are for this car already, and it does look like it'll be fairly easy to work on too. Advantage of having a fairly basic car I suppose!

RCBRG said:
do you know why the air con feels broken? because it doesn't have it....

fantastic car. i absolutely loved mine, far far more fun than a 15 year old £1k car has any right to be
That would be that then! smile What I actually meant in my dazed and confused state at 1am last night was that the heater blowers don't work at all. So will probably look to fix that!

Loads of people have said what a hoot they are to drive so I'm looking forward to getting it sorted! Cheers.
If you need any help feel free to PM me, i've pulled plenty of pugs/citroens apart and put them back together, including the JP4S conversion on a SAXO.

Parts are very cheap for these compared to most others, but also some are starting to become a bit harder to get hold of due to the age of these.

And regards the aircon, it was only the right hand drive one's that didn't have it, LHD 106/saxo had aircon, they couldn't fit it on the RHD because the wiper motor gets in the way.

Spantney

Original Poster:

334 posts

156 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
LeeThr said:
If you need any help feel free to PM me, i've pulled plenty of pugs/citroens apart and put them back together, including the JP4S conversion on a SAXO.

Parts are very cheap for these compared to most others, but also some are starting to become a bit harder to get hold of due to the age of these.

And regards the aircon, it was only the right hand drive one's that didn't have it, LHD 106/saxo had aircon, they couldn't fit it on the RHD because the wiper motor gets in the way.
Thanks man, appreciate it! Do you have any recommendations for a brake upgrade or cold air feed replacement? There is a 'carbon' CAF on ebay for £50 which looks okay but then again sometimes a stock airbox is best? I also hear that Pug 206 GTI calipers are a worthwhile upgrade but would be good to get some recommendations.

I've spent a pretty penny today and taken another couple of pictures;







10 litres of oil
10 litres of coolant
new thermostat
oil & fuel filters
new bulbs
wipers

My new linkages should be here tomorrow so probably break out the tools at the weekend!

RCBRG

603 posts

142 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Spantney said:
Thanks man, appreciate it! Do you have any recommendations for a brake upgrade or cold air feed replacement? There is a 'carbon' CAF on ebay for £50 which looks okay but then again sometimes a stock airbox is best? I also hear that Pug 206 GTI calipers are a worthwhile upgrade but would be good to get some recommendations.

I've spent a pretty penny today and taken another couple of pictures;







10 litres of oil
10 litres of coolant
new thermostat
oil & fuel filters
new bulbs
wipers

My new linkages should be here tomorrow so probably break out the tools at the weekend!
i went 266mm with calipers from a 206. great upgrade, more than enough for my throttle bodied VTS

f1nn

2,693 posts

193 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
Standard air box with a decent panel filter works as good as anything on these, so save some money.

266mm brake upgrades are popular, but 273mm (306 gti-6 calipers will go under the standard wheels with a set of caliper brackets. Set of braided hoses and decent pads and realistically that's all you need on these due to the light weight.

I

LeeThr

3,122 posts

172 months

Wednesday 30th December 2015
quotequote all
You've got a few choices on both really, induction kit's the best i've seen is the Simota kit's (but also come under a couple of different names) http://www.ecosse-peugeot.co.uk/show_product.asp?i... (don't buy from there, lot cheaper elsewhere, just an example).

Or the BMC enclosed filters provided you can get the intake pipe to a reasonable location. I.e fog-light out as long as your not planing on hitting any serious puddles at speed. Last real option is stock air box with a K&N or Pipercross panel filter, I run a K&N in my 206 GTi and that seems to work very well.

Brakes again several options, but your choices should also take into account what wheels you want to run on it. 4 off the shelf upgrades available are 206 GTi 138, GTi-180, GTi-6 or 406 V6 Brembos. If you want to be running 14 inch wheels then the only option available is the GTi-138 calipers, everything else need's at least 15's, the brembo's will only fit under some 15's i.e Motorsport orientated wheels with big brake clearance or running spacers/grinding bits off.

But whatever you do you need to look at changing the Master cylinder for a bigger one and possibly braided hoses (essential with brembos) or you will end up with a brake pedal that's as vague as anything and with ridiculously long travel. But as long as you run a decent pad/disc combination all 4 of them will work well even with a sizable increase of power, it's not exactly a tank your trying to stop after all.


If you've never changed the gear linkages before, then there very simple to do, easiest way is remove the air intake from the throttle body and you should be able to see pretty much straight down at them. Use a 17 & 14 (if I remember right) open end spanner to pop the old linkages off, and then the new one's simply press on (although you may need a bit of force). However if you've got the uprated Group-N linkages with the little locking pins you'll be better off going from underneath to fit the bottom two, and start with the middle rod as well. But shouldn't be more than an hours work really including getting the tools out & putting them away.

Spantney

Original Poster:

334 posts

156 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the tips folks.

As we are running the 15" VTS alloys I think we are going to go with some 206 GTI-180 calipers and carriers (one being broken near us), with braided lines and fresh discs, pads and fluid and a 306 GTI-6 master cylinder.

As for the induction kit I'm going to order this one;

http://www.passionauto.co.uk/products/citroen-saxo...

I would have used a stock airbox with a decent K&N filter but because the car doesn't have one, only a pod filter, I would need to source an airbox and then buy the filter for it. Might as well go for the cold air feed for the moment, if it doesn't turn out to be that great I've not spent loads of money on some ridiculous induction kit.

And my new linkages turned up today so I think a 'car day' on saturday is a go. The linkages are X8R ones with locking pins so I shall take your advice and do it from the bottom.

Cheers!

Edited by Spantney on Thursday 31st December 17:21

f1nn

2,693 posts

193 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
Check the size of the filter when it turns up. Back in the day it was common practice to replace the actual filter on these kits with a larger, Green, unit.

Spantney

Original Poster:

334 posts

156 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
Me and my mates managed to get a couple of hours on the car yesterday before rain stopped play - only problem with not having a garage frown

Good news was that it was definitely the linkages - one was completely gone! All that remained of it was what was left of the ball joint on one end. We've now got some uprated linkages with the locking pins on there...not a terrible job but a bit fiddly, got it done in just over an hour.


upload an image

We actually have 6 gears again which is nice. Took it out for a quick blast last night and I was actually quite surprised with how nippy it is, although the driving position and the fact the pedals are really close together is taking a little getting used to, probably doesn't help I have size 11 feet. Also, the tyres are really really bad in the wet smile

We also picked the uprated calipers up:


free upload


image hosting 5mb

I believe they are Bosch calipers off a standard GTI not a GTI-180 as I initially thought but they still look like a decent upgrade. I have also ordered a 306-GTI6 master cylinder so my job for this week is to source some new pads discs and braided hoses. Forgive my naivety but if I get braided hoses for the 206 calipers should the rear ones fit on the standard Citroen calipers on the rear?

We still have to give the car a full service and coolant flush but we are heading in the right direction with it (I hope!).

Cheers,

Ant

Edited by Spantney on Sunday 3rd January 14:44

LeeThr

3,122 posts

172 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
Spantney said:
Me and my mates managed to get a couple of hours on the car yesterday before rain stopped play - only problem with not having a garage frown

Good news was that it was definitely the linkages - one was completely gone! All that remained of it was what was left of the ball joint on one end. We've now got some uprated linkages with the locking pins on there...not a terrible job but a bit fiddly, got it done in just over an hour.


upload an image

We actually have 6 gears again which is nice. Took it out for a quick blast last night and I was actually quite surprised with how nippy it is, although the driving position and the fact the pedals are really close together is taking a little getting used to, probably doesn't help I have size 11 feet. Also, the tyres are really really bad in the wet smile

We also picked the uprated calipers up:


free upload


image hosting 5mb

I believe they are Bosch calipers off a standard GTI not a GTI-180 as I initially thought but they still look like a decent upgrade. I have also ordered a 306-GTI6 master cylinder so my job for this week is to source some new pads discs and braided hoses. Forgive my naivety but if I get braided hoses for the 206 calipers should the rear ones fit on the standard Citroen calipers on the rear?

We still have to give the car a full service and coolant flush but we are heading in the right direction with it (I hope!).

Cheers,

Ant

Edited by Spantney on Sunday 3rd January 14:44
Looks good, didn't do bad on time with the linkages at all.

With the Calipers you'll need to get the 206 bolts for the carriers. Also you'll have some fun matching up a set of discs & pads to them as there were 3 variations all Bosch on the 206. Pad shapes change as well as disc offset.

Regarding the hoses I'm not too sure, the 106/saxo/206/205/306 (and a few others) run the same rear calipers so everything that end should remain the same, it's just the fittings on the rest of the brake lines that may be different sizes. PSA are good for changing things without saying much or for any real reason.

Another tip, if you ever come to change the rear calipers for any reason, unless you know for a fact it's an original saxo/106 part get a matching pair, on the 306 there was a production run where the piston in the caliper were being to two different sizes most are 30mm but some are 32mm. I read on one of the owners forums that someone had changed one of the rear caliper pre-mot and then had some trouble on the brake tester as the rear balance was completely off. Don't know how he figured out it was different piston sizes but he did in the end.

MuZiZZle

680 posts

191 months

Friday 8th January 2016
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Ooh, another VTS, I've got a track spec one and a totally standard one, don't bother with the induction kit, the standard filter is far superior!

They're so much fun!

I'll have a lower brace spare soon, and a few other bits biggrin

mattfuey

442 posts

139 months

Friday 8th January 2016
quotequote all
I miss my Saxo's, even my VTS which was an absolute nail.

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tuning/citroen/citr...

^^always worth a look when you want to uprate bits!

PaulJC84

924 posts

218 months

Friday 8th January 2016
quotequote all
Yeah I have a 106 and found out about the 206 GTI upgrade and had to do a lot of reading as to which pad shape I needed. There are three types but two of them of them have rounds ends so are interchangable. Easy to have a look on euros website and work out which you need. I used a 405 master cylinder as needed an none abs one. Along with some HEL braded lines (these are the same for 206 or 106/saxo calipers) and motul 600 dot 4 fluid. Huge improvement as the brakes on it were totally useless.

Just to add one of the ways to tell which pads are needed is if the calipers bolts onto the carrier at both ends or just one.



Edited by PaulJC84 on Friday 8th January 20:02

Downward

3,618 posts

104 months

Friday 8th January 2016
quotequote all
Cat bypass pipe and drill the standard airbox with cold air feed for the induction noise.

Simple cheap mods

Spantney

Original Poster:

334 posts

156 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for all the extremely helpful replies all, its helping a french car noob greatly! MuZiZZle if you could PM me any bits you have for sale as and when that would be much appreciated!

I think we've identified the calipers we have are from an early model 206 GTI so are using the pads with the round ends, and require the smaller disc offset. So armed with you guys information too I'll order all the bits tomorrow including the brake lines. I picked out 306 GTI6 master cylinder up from Argos yesterday too so we should hopefully have everything ready to go for next weekend.

Unfortunately the guy who sold me the calipers binned the carrier bolts so I think I'll have to pop down to Peugeot near to me and see if I can order some fresh ones.

Been battling with the weather a bit today but managed to get a few jobs done!

This was the air filter it came with;


free image hosting

That has now been swapped out with my awesome ABS plastic, I mean 'carbon' induction kit.


upload pic


picture share

The box didn't actually come with any instructions so it was a bit of guesswork - eventually worked out you needed to relocate the PAS fluid reservoir to mount the bloody thing. Any case, its on, sounds inductiony and as f1nn warned, the filter is a bit on the small size so may uprate to a larger one shortly.

Next up was a well overdue service! My new Halfords ramps and extensions made short work of getting it up in the air (how I've survived this long without ramps I don't know!)


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Didn't really take too many pictures of the service as, well, its a bit boring but here's one I got from underneath the car!


screengrab

Full set of new sparks, new oil filter, nice new 10w-40 oil too. Purring like a kitten now.

Also a few little jobs completed. Replaced the halfords special blingtacular gear knob and torn gaiter with a nice proper saxo one (you can also see the car is quite manky);


free upload

Also got some nice tailored car mats off ebay for 20 quid so chucked those in and replaced the tealights in the headlamps with some decent BOGOF'ultra brilliance' bulbs from halfords. Nothing close to Nightbreakers but much better than the El-cheapo bulbs in there before. My neighbour who is a bit more savvy with wiring than me also fixed my heater blowers for me which was nice of him!

Few more jobs identified aswell - one fog lamp is completely obliterated and hanging off its housing so I've ordered a fresh one from a breakers for a tenner, and the rear exhaust hanger is sagging like a wizards sleeve, so will need to get some fresh hangers in too.

Onwards and upwards!

Cheers