Saab 9-5 Aero - Hybrid Turbo and 9000 Bottom End - 350 bhp

[HedgeyGedgey]

Robatr0n said:

I still don't get why you've popped up on this thread to tell him his graph is rubbish and then attempt to compare it to 510bhp Evo that presents an entirely different driving proposition. They're two completely different cars and are not even comparable.

Saabs are pretty long geared and the 19T doesn't have much lag at all. It's a lovely match and whilst not rapid, it's very usable.

Post your dyno graphs up for the OP to st all over.

Edited to add - you do realise that the Saab red lines at just a fraction over 6000rpm, right?

I must be mistaken but this a free world and it is an OPEN forum where members can post their opinions on subjects. Never mentioned lag at all, lag and boost threshold are different things and commonly misused. I mentioned the boost threshold of the turbos. That 19t turbo comes in too late for the power it's producing and then because of the size of it, its not holding anything up top. Up top isn't a problem if you're making bags of low down torque but 3k max torque isnt good enough. What's your point of the redline being over 6000, makes no difference if there's no power up there (which there isn't) could have a redline of 9k but if it's not making any power up there, pointless. It's not a lovely match though, the maximum torque is far too late (therefore boost threshold of turbo) and then it's dropping off too early. Not sure if it's a trait of Saabs or not, not a fan of the delivery or the graph of this. It has transient response going for it (can tell from the way the power gradually increases) but it depends what you like. Not sure if EFR turbos are in the Saab world yet, one of those would work brilliantly on this

[Robatr0n]

Take up your mapping issues with Karl of Noobtune fame. He's revered in that field and with good reason. But ask him to use small words so as you can try and understand what he's talking about.

[HedgeyGedgey]

Robatr0n said:

Take up your mapping issues with Karl of Noobtune fame. He's revered in that field and with good reason. But ask him to use small words so as you can try and understand what he's talking about.

I map as well so don't try to belittle me

[anonymous-user]

HedgeyGedgey said:

Robatr0n said:

Take up your mapping issues with Karl of Noobtune fame. He's revered in that field and with good reason. But ask him to use small words so as you can try and understand what he's talking about.

I map as well so don't try to belittle me

Forza doesn't count.

[Robatr0n]

HedgeyGedgey said:

Robatr0n said:

Take up your mapping issues with Karl of Noobtune fame. He's revered in that field and with good reason. But ask him to use small words so as you can try and understand what he's talking about.

I map as well so don't try to belittle me

No, you do it as a hobby. As I said, you know far less than you think you do.

[HybridAero]

Hadn't given it a clean for over a month so though it would be rude not to whip out the snow foam





Would like a rear spoiler next and will most likely get the rubber side strips sprayed 17- black along with the facelift rear bumper, over the summer.






Also desperately needs bigger brakes. Considering a 314mm Signum V6 front setup, resprayed acid green (à la Porsche 918).

Edited by HybridAero on Saturday 15th April 18:23

[HybridAero]

HedgeyGedgey said:

I must be mistaken but this a free world and it is an OPEN forum where members can post their opinions on subjects. Never mentioned lag at all, lag and boost threshold are different things and commonly misused. I mentioned the boost threshold of the turbos. That 19t turbo comes in too late for the power it's producing and then because of the size of it, its not holding anything up top. Up top isn't a problem if you're making bags of low down torque but 3k max torque isnt good enough. What's your point of the redline being over 6000, makes no difference if there's no power up there (which there isn't) could have a redline of 9k but if it's not making any power up there, pointless. It's not a lovely match though, the maximum torque is far too late (therefore boost threshold of turbo) and then it's dropping off too early. Not sure if it's a trait of Saabs or not, not a fan of the delivery or the graph of this. It has transient response going for it (can tell from the way the power gradually increases) but it depends what you like. Not sure if EFR turbos are in the Saab world yet, one of those would work brilliantly on this

Hedgehog, find me a turbo that genuinely spools up as quickly as the 19t, and then pulls harder at the top end (i.e. not the Evo dyno printout you showed us, which clearly doesn't) and I will eat my hair.

[M3DGE]

Great thread. Shame about the recent ambush.

I used to work for GM & had a string of 9-3 & 9-5's, mostly Aeros. Fantastic cars, shame the 9-5 was dragged out so long due to lack of investment, they only just launched the new one when the company went bust.

I did always think the 9-5 would benefit from 4wd, the 9-3 with this was the best of the bunch.

But I have never found, for the money, a better combination of power, safety, equipment and comfort than a 9-5 aero. And that's without the upgrades going on here!

Keep it up, I'm following!

[DanielSan]

HybridAero said:

Also desperately needs bigger brakes. Considering a 314mm Signum V6 front setup, resprayed acid green (à la Porsche 918).

Not sure on the difference but what size are the Vectra VXR brake setup?

[HybridAero]

DanielSan said:

Not sure on the difference but what size are the Vectra VXR brake setup?

Good call, according to my research they're 345mm, discs and pads are 140:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Vectra-2-8-T-2-...

But I can't find any VXR calipers anywhere..

[HybridAero]

M3DGE said:

Great thread. Shame about the recent ambush.

I used to work for GM & had a string of 9-3 & 9-5's, mostly Aeros. Fantastic cars, shame the 9-5 was dragged out so long due to lack of investment, they only just launched the new one when the company went bust.

I did always think the 9-5 would benefit from 4wd, the 9-3 with this was the best of the bunch.

But I have never found, for the money, a better combination of power, safety, equipment and comfort than a 9-5 aero. And that's without the upgrades going on here!

Keep it up, I'm following!

4wd would be amazing, that's the real weak link with these the lack of traction. An LSD would be great but can't justify the expense at the moment.

Agreed, the TurboX looks phenomenal; check out this stage 5, around 700 NM apparently, just grips and goes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q4kXrb9a_Q

[griffin dai]

HybridAero said:

Good call, according to my research they're 345mm, discs and pads are 140:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Vectra-2-8-T-2-...

But I can't find any VXR calipers anywhere..

I think you've got 308's on yours? 314's would be a nice upgrade and won't break the bank. 99% sure they fit the 2004 onwards 9-5 but will have to double check. I don't think they fit the older 9-5 and older shape 9-3/900.

I've got a set on sale over on UKS for £90 plus postage. These come with Mtec dimpled discs but no pads. I found the following a nice cheap(ish) upgrade with the 314's:

Mtec discs
Yellow stuff pads
HEL lines
RBF600 fluid

The 345's are a decent step up again but also a fair bit more money and used calipers/carriers are hard to find. Usually go between £250/350. I paid £500 for some used calipers, carriers, discs & Ferodo pads. Also these are very heavy, they weigh a ton!! Looking back I should have just waited another month and spent the extra on the maptun 4 pots but even these have mixed reviews. Ive had no issues with the 345's saved my bacon a few times now!

[griffin dai]

HybridAero said:

Agreed, the TurboX looks phenomenal; check out this stage 5, around 700 NM apparently, just grips and goes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q4kXrb9a_Q

Yep they're very quick, but hes just asking to lose his licence here!!!! Had a scare last week joining the bypass but got let off with a warning. Luckily I wasn't going silly speeds but the way it accelerates from 60 onwards caught his attention and I got pulled.

JZW Stage 5's definitely a licence looser if you take the piss. Feels much much quicker than my old 9000 Aero. Couple seconds fun and your way WAY over the speed limit. I'd keep an eye on his channel, he'll end up selling that soon if he keeps it up!! Wouldn't mind a bonkers TX

[HybridAero]

griffin dai said:

I think you've got 308's on yours? 314's would be a nice upgrade and won't break the bank. 99% sure they fit the 2004 onwards 9-5 but will have to double check. I don't think they fit the older 9-5 and older shape 9-3/900.

I've got a set on sale over on UKS for £90 plus postage. These come with Mtec dimpled discs but no pads. I found the following a nice cheap(ish) upgrade with the 314's:

Mtec discs
Yellow stuff pads
HEL lines
RBF600 fluid

The 345's are a decent step up again but also a fair bit more money and used calipers/carriers are hard to find. Usually go between £250/350. I paid £500 for some used calipers, carriers, discs & Ferodo pads. Also these are very heavy, they weigh a ton!! Looking back I should have just waited another month and spent the extra on the maptun 4 pots but even these have mixed reviews. Ive had no issues with the 345's saved my bacon a few times now!

Hmm might be interested in them, do you know if they're a direct swap for an 02 9-5?

[griffin dai]

Ah! I don't think they'll fit mate, I thought you had the 04 onwards Aero (front bumper threw me!)

[HybridAero]

Thinking of getting the windows tinted to the legal limit.

Does anyone know what the legal limit is for front and rear, and can anyone recommend anyone decent in the Nottingham area?

Thanks

[tdm34]

HedgeyGedgey said:

The car I posted was an Evo 9 with a td05 20g billet wheel on some rather aggressive 272 cams on 1.8bar boost I believe. Yes but if you look your torque is done by 4k-ish and is dropping off hugely with your dyno graph finishing at 6k. This takes 600-ish more rpm to spool, thanks to the cams fitted to get to the 500 uptop. Is still making power at 7250rpm when the operator backs off, limiter on a standard map is at 7606 on these so max torque at what 3800ish and pulling all the way to 7600. Saab max torque at 3k and is dead past 5800! And as I said this dyno was done in 3rd, at a guess yours was 4th with the long gearing of the Saab

Well I haven't got the graph to hand, but Parky's 9-5 Aero St6 is making 462bhp @ 6670 rpm and the graph was still rising, by 7k it would be around 500
and torque value 540.3 nm @ 4600 rpm.

But that's with a fully forged bottom end, it's hilariously quick,

my own st3 9-5 has 292bhp and 472nm so it's fun as many Golf R owners find once traction has ceased to be a problem.

[dandam]

HybridAero said:

Thinking of getting the windows tinted to the legal limit.

Does anyone know what the legal limit is for front and rear, and can anyone recommend anyone decent in the Nottingham area?

Thanks

The rear of the car can be tinted as much as you like, no legal maximum I believe, however the front I am not sure if it is legal to tint at all. I know people do still do it but if you want to stay legal and pass an mot best avoid it.

The only place I know is in Birmingham, they were great but a bit far from Nottingham. I went in one day and saw the owners own car that he had worked on, looked perfect so went ahead and it was a great job.

[HybridAero]

HybridAero said:

Quick update:

Even with a window down, it managed a 10.9 second 100-200 km/h time, which is faster than a Ferrari 355, and about the same as a 360!

I made a little comparison video to back up this claim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTlgy2YkkpA

[HybridAero]

dandam said:

The rear of the car can be tinted as much as you like, no legal maximum I believe, however the front I am not sure if it is legal to tint at all. I know people do still do it but if you want to stay legal and pass an mot best avoid it.

The only place I know is in Birmingham, they were great but a bit far from Nottingham. I went in one day and saw the owners own car that he had worked on, looked perfect so went ahead and it was a great job.

Ok cool, will most likely just do the rears then, cheers.