Saab 9-5 Aero - Hybrid Turbo and 9000 Bottom End - 350 bhp
Discussion
227bhp said:
Instead of gormlessly trotting out the same formula you found on the 'net and probably don't understand (which is why you can't explain it) below is the answer. The problem has been we don't have all the vital facts or a graph.
As peak torque (say 4k rpm) is approaching the wastegate is opened (controlled electronically) to bleed off the exhaust so boost pressure drops, ultimate torque is never reached and neither is bhp at that point in the RPM range, they both drop or level off together.
Further up the rev range (lets say 6500rpm) peak power (BHP) occurs, of course peak torque doesn't occur here so the wastegate is closed and the turbo delivers full boost to keep the bhp figure high, the torque is also as high as it can be at this point (as it is linked of course), but nowhere near what it could have been at 4k rpm.
Now hopefully we can see and understand how it has been manipulated.
I understand it perfectly well. Which part of it do you think I don't understand?As peak torque (say 4k rpm) is approaching the wastegate is opened (controlled electronically) to bleed off the exhaust so boost pressure drops, ultimate torque is never reached and neither is bhp at that point in the RPM range, they both drop or level off together.
Further up the rev range (lets say 6500rpm) peak power (BHP) occurs, of course peak torque doesn't occur here so the wastegate is closed and the turbo delivers full boost to keep the bhp figure high, the torque is also as high as it can be at this point (as it is linked of course), but nowhere near what it could have been at 4k rpm.
Now hopefully we can see and understand how it has been manipulated.
HybridAero said:
227bhp said:
Instead of gormlessly trotting out the same formula you found on the 'net and probably don't understand (which is why you can't explain it) below is the answer. The problem has been we don't have all the vital facts or a graph.
As peak torque (say 4k rpm) is approaching the wastegate is opened (controlled electronically) to bleed off the exhaust so boost pressure drops, ultimate torque is never reached and neither is bhp at that point in the RPM range, they both drop or level off together.
Further up the rev range (lets say 6500rpm) peak power (BHP) occurs, of course peak torque doesn't occur here so the wastegate is closed and the turbo delivers full boost to keep the bhp figure high, the torque is also as high as it can be at this point (as it is linked of course), but nowhere near what it could have been at 4k rpm.
Now hopefully we can see and understand how it has been manipulated.
I understand it perfectly well. Which parts of it do you think I don't understand?As peak torque (say 4k rpm) is approaching the wastegate is opened (controlled electronically) to bleed off the exhaust so boost pressure drops, ultimate torque is never reached and neither is bhp at that point in the RPM range, they both drop or level off together.
Further up the rev range (lets say 6500rpm) peak power (BHP) occurs, of course peak torque doesn't occur here so the wastegate is closed and the turbo delivers full boost to keep the bhp figure high, the torque is also as high as it can be at this point (as it is linked of course), but nowhere near what it could have been at 4k rpm.
Now hopefully we can see and understand how it has been manipulated.
227 bhp, you really sound like a barrel of laughs. Doesn't cost anything to be polite does it?
In other news, I've been recovering from an operation and have been bored. Soo... I've sourced a rebuilt Mamba GTX3076r turbo which is apparently good for 450-470 bhp. It spools up fast as well, being a 0.64 spec and a ball bearing, and is currently getting new seals and core fitted by Midland Turbo, so will come with a 12 month warranty.
Turbo was £400
SAS manifold - £500 - http://sasautocustoms.co.uk/saab-stainless-steel-t...
Injectors - Siemens Dekka 875 cc - £174
T5 cams - £40
Turbosmart WG38 2011 Ultragate 38 14psi Blue - £250 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Turbosmart-TS-0501-1140...
Need to find an exhaust fabricator who can create a custom downpipe and cobra turbo inlet. Can anyone recommend anyone?
So all in i'm looking at around £1600 to take it from 340 bhp to 450-470.
Can sell the existing 19t turbo for around £250 and green giant injectors for £120 and downpipe for £250, so it's only an outlay of just over £1k. That and mapping.
Will still daily drive it, but seeing as I only do 10k miles a year I can't see this costing me much more per year in fuel.
Once that's done, will drive it until gearbox breaks again, take it off road, get a daily driver and save up for an LSD.
In other news, I've been recovering from an operation and have been bored. Soo... I've sourced a rebuilt Mamba GTX3076r turbo which is apparently good for 450-470 bhp. It spools up fast as well, being a 0.64 spec and a ball bearing, and is currently getting new seals and core fitted by Midland Turbo, so will come with a 12 month warranty.
Turbo was £400
SAS manifold - £500 - http://sasautocustoms.co.uk/saab-stainless-steel-t...
Injectors - Siemens Dekka 875 cc - £174
T5 cams - £40
Turbosmart WG38 2011 Ultragate 38 14psi Blue - £250 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Turbosmart-TS-0501-1140...
Need to find an exhaust fabricator who can create a custom downpipe and cobra turbo inlet. Can anyone recommend anyone?
So all in i'm looking at around £1600 to take it from 340 bhp to 450-470.
Can sell the existing 19t turbo for around £250 and green giant injectors for £120 and downpipe for £250, so it's only an outlay of just over £1k. That and mapping.
Will still daily drive it, but seeing as I only do 10k miles a year I can't see this costing me much more per year in fuel.
Once that's done, will drive it until gearbox breaks again, take it off road, get a daily driver and save up for an LSD.
Edited by HybridAero on Thursday 22 December 10:07
HybridAero said:
227 bhp, you really sound like a barrel of laughs. Doesn't cost anything to be polite does it?
In other news, I've been recovering from an operation and have been bored. Soo... I've sourced a rebuilt Mamba GTX3076r turbo which is apparently good for 450-470 bhp. It spools up fast as well, being a 0.64 spec and a ball bearing, and is currently getting new seals and core fitted by Midland Turbo, so will come with a 12 month warranty.
Turbo was £400
SAS manifold - £500 - http://sasautocustoms.co.uk/saab-stainless-steel-t...
Injectors - Siemens Dekka 875 cc - £174
T5 cams - £40
Turbosmart WG38 2011 Ultragate 38 14psi Blue - £250 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Turbosmart-TS-0501-1140...
Need to find an exhaust fabricator who can create a custom downpipe and cobra turbo inlet. Can anyone recommend anyone?
So all in i'm looking at around £1600 to take it from 340 bhp to 450-470.
Can sell the existing 19t turbo for around £250 and green giant injectors for £120 and downpipe for £250, so it's only an outlay of just over £1k. That and mapping.
Will still daily drive it, but seeing as I only do 10k miles a year I can't see this costing me much more per year in fuel.
Once that's done, will drive it until gearbox brakes again, take it off road, get a daily driver and save up for an LSD.
That'll be fun mate..In other news, I've been recovering from an operation and have been bored. Soo... I've sourced a rebuilt Mamba GTX3076r turbo which is apparently good for 450-470 bhp. It spools up fast as well, being a 0.64 spec and a ball bearing, and is currently getting new seals and core fitted by Midland Turbo, so will come with a 12 month warranty.
Turbo was £400
SAS manifold - £500 - http://sasautocustoms.co.uk/saab-stainless-steel-t...
Injectors - Siemens Dekka 875 cc - £174
T5 cams - £40
Turbosmart WG38 2011 Ultragate 38 14psi Blue - £250 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Turbosmart-TS-0501-1140...
Need to find an exhaust fabricator who can create a custom downpipe and cobra turbo inlet. Can anyone recommend anyone?
So all in i'm looking at around £1600 to take it from 340 bhp to 450-470.
Can sell the existing 19t turbo for around £250 and green giant injectors for £120 and downpipe for £250, so it's only an outlay of just over £1k. That and mapping.
Will still daily drive it, but seeing as I only do 10k miles a year I can't see this costing me much more per year in fuel.
Once that's done, will drive it until gearbox brakes again, take it off road, get a daily driver and save up for an LSD.
Edited by HybridAero on Wednesday 21st December 12:37
tdm34 said:
That'll be fun mate..
Yeh should be pretty hilarious, should take it from 996 Carrera S fast to 997 Turbo fast in the mid ranges.Ideal for VMax
Just heard back from albert666 and he quoted £1030 for custom downpipe, cobra and manifold - Better get saving!
How's yours running? Still can't get over the figures yours made at stage 3; a healthy runner it must be.
One thing I was concerned about is the bigger turbo being less responsive low down.
But as it's a GTX3076r and not a GT3076r, it should build boost reasonably quickly, aiding driveability - although not as quickly as the current 19t from tickover to 3k rpm - which should make it easier on the drivetrain.
Here's a comparison of a GTX3076r (thick red line) and a GT3076r (thin pink line), in this case on a Nissan Silvia.
In reality it should drive very much like the 19t low down, but just get more and more violent in the upper rev range rather than flatlining.
But as it's a GTX3076r and not a GT3076r, it should build boost reasonably quickly, aiding driveability - although not as quickly as the current 19t from tickover to 3k rpm - which should make it easier on the drivetrain.
Here's a comparison of a GTX3076r (thick red line) and a GT3076r (thin pink line), in this case on a Nissan Silvia.
In reality it should drive very much like the 19t low down, but just get more and more violent in the upper rev range rather than flatlining.
Edited by HybridAero on Thursday 22 December 11:11
Headlights restored today for only £20 by Shiny Lights in Mansfield Woodhouse ( https://www.facebook.com/shinyheadlights1/?fref=ts ); strongly recommended for anyone in the East Midlands or South Yorkshire.
Before; to show how bad they were:
During:
The final result:
Finally, sealant was applied to prevent them from clouding up again so quickly. Water was sprayed on to demonstrate beading.
Before; to show how bad they were:
During:
The final result:
Finally, sealant was applied to prevent them from clouding up again so quickly. Water was sprayed on to demonstrate beading.
Edited by HybridAero on Sunday 16th April 11:59
GrantB5 said:
Headlights came out well!
Yeh, it'll be keeping them clean that's the challenge. Seen your website, some very impressive car photography on there!Been looking at blacking out and honeycombing the front grille. Came across this from Neo Brothers, for the 9-3, real shame they don't do one for the 9-5:
http://www.neobrothers.co.uk/front-grill-alternati...
How it currently looks:
How it could look:
Edited by HybridAero on Sunday 16th April 12:04
I had my headlights done back in May and other than its regular car washes I havnt done anything else and they are still perfect now.
Recommend it to anyone.
Great car keep up the good work!
Have you considered a small lip rear spoiler? Imo they make it look a little meaner while still looking sensible.
Recommend it to anyone.
Great car keep up the good work!
Have you considered a small lip rear spoiler? Imo they make it look a little meaner while still looking sensible.
MrTree said:
I had my headlights done back in May and other than its regular car washes I havnt done anything else and they are still perfect now.
Recommend it to anyone.
Great car keep up the good work!
Have you considered a small lip rear spoiler? Imo they make it look a little meaner while still looking sensible.
Current styling and mechanical plans are as follows:Recommend it to anyone.
Great car keep up the good work!
Have you considered a small lip rear spoiler? Imo they make it look a little meaner while still looking sensible.
Rebadge front, rear and centre caps to this design, to add an element of humour:
Refurbished sharktooth front bumper (soon)
314 mm brake upgrade, will most likely get a set from Neos, not bad at £270 for the full setup.
Check out the size difference! Would get the calipers resprayed the same yellow as the custom bages.
Not sure about a spoiler, I agree they look good but trying to keep the design pure.
Edited by HybridAero on Sunday 16th April 12:07
I think 345's fit? (99% sure they will, same as the Hirsch upgrade) I've got a set off a Vectra VXR on mine, they 'just' fit under my 17's.
Used calipers/carriers are around £250 on eBay, then just plain Brembos and ds2500 pads, HEL lines and rbf600 fluid. Felt a massive jump in stopping power over my 314's!!
Are you still going for the gt30 upgrade?
Used calipers/carriers are around £250 on eBay, then just plain Brembos and ds2500 pads, HEL lines and rbf600 fluid. Felt a massive jump in stopping power over my 314's!!
Are you still going for the gt30 upgrade?
griffin dai said:
I think 345's fit? (99% sure they will, same as the Hirsch upgrade) I've got a set off a Vectra VXR on mine, they 'just' fit under my 17's.
Used calipers/carriers are around £250 on eBay, then just plain Brembos and ds2500 pads, HEL lines and rbf600 fluid. Felt a massive jump in stopping power over my 314's!!
Are you still going for the gt30 upgrade?
Thanks yeh they should do, they're massive will bear them in mind.Used calipers/carriers are around £250 on eBay, then just plain Brembos and ds2500 pads, HEL lines and rbf600 fluid. Felt a massive jump in stopping power over my 314's!!
Are you still going for the gt30 upgrade?
Taking your advice into account I'm going to get a slippy diff next and see how well it copes with this power. If it seems like there's room for more then will go down the GTX3076r route. How's yours running, any plans to 19T or 20T it?
HybridAero said:
Thanks yeh they should do, they're massive will bear them in mind.
Taking your advice into account I'm going to get a slippy diff next and see how well it copes with this power. If it seems like there's room for more then will go down the GTX3076r route. How's yours running, any plans to 19T or 20T it?
I would Taking your advice into account I'm going to get a slippy diff next and see how well it copes with this power. If it seems like there's room for more then will go down the GTX3076r route. How's yours running, any plans to 19T or 20T it?
You'll be suprised how much better it puts the power down, no fuss just point & go (if the tyres are good enough!!) Nah not much point upgrading the turbo here, 60-90 times are pretty much on par with the billet 20T lot running the e85 race tune, I'll just concentrate on the cooling side next year with a bigger rad and change the IC for something a bit thinner but more surface area. Probably the do88 kit
Next for mine is the fuel pump griffin dai said:
I would You'll be suprised how much better it puts the power down, no fuss just point & go (if the tyres are good enough!!)
Nah not much point upgrading the turbo here, 60-90 times are pretty much on par with the billet 20T lot running the e85 race tune, I'll just concentrate on the cooling side next year with a bigger rad and change the IC for something a bit thinner but more surface area. Probably the do88 kit Next for mine is the fuel pump
Fuel Performance are worth a look for an upgraded pump, Duane is a top bloke and knows his stuff: You'll be suprised how much better it puts the power down, no fuss just point & go (if the tyres are good enough!!) Nah not much point upgrading the turbo here, 60-90 times are pretty much on par with the billet 20T lot running the e85 race tune, I'll just concentrate on the cooling side next year with a bigger rad and change the IC for something a bit thinner but more surface area. Probably the do88 kit
Next for mine is the fuel pump https://fuelperformance.co.uk
Just driving around recently I know the roads are damp and sometimes icy at the moment but I really have to pick a moment when I can floor it, would be great to be able to safely put the power down to the road. Do you have to take a gearbox apart to fit an LSD or does it attach to the gearbox?
Was pretty straightforward on mine (for the garage anyway!!) I think it's a bit more work on the 9-5, we did the clutch/flywheel upgrade same time.
It's a funny non returnless system on the v6 so most just fit a new standard pump which is meant to be good for 500bhp but one of the lads in the states has a AEM 50-1000 pump on his and it's working fine, needs a bit of messing to fit though. Stuff like the usual Walbro or HRC pumps won't work on mine so I'm a bit limited here. Also needs a new sensor that's no longer availabe so have to go down the refurb route. Common fault on these, p0089 code flashes and it's usually a sign of the pump dying.
....bit of a pain in the arse this since going to stage 5 tbh, still not right!! As soon as the pump & sensors sorted I'll send the logs to JZW and see if he can squeeze a bit more out of it he's adamant it's close to 400bhp now but the pumps letting me down so I'm running a tamer map
It's a funny non returnless system on the v6 so most just fit a new standard pump which is meant to be good for 500bhp but one of the lads in the states has a AEM 50-1000 pump on his and it's working fine, needs a bit of messing to fit though. Stuff like the usual Walbro or HRC pumps won't work on mine so I'm a bit limited here. Also needs a new sensor that's no longer availabe so have to go down the refurb route. Common fault on these, p0089 code flashes and it's usually a sign of the pump dying.
....bit of a pain in the arse this since going to stage 5 tbh, still not right!! As soon as the pump & sensors sorted I'll send the logs to JZW and see if he can squeeze a bit more out of it
he's adamant it's close to 400bhp now but the pumps letting me down so I'm running a tamer map Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff