Saab 9-5 Aero - Hybrid Turbo and 9000 Bottom End - 350 bhp
Discussion
griffin dai said:
Was pretty straightforward on mine (for the garage anyway!!) I think it's a bit more work on the 9-5, we did the clutch/flywheel upgrade same time.
It's a funny non returnless system on the v6 so most just fit a new standard pump which is meant to be good for 500bhp but one of the lads in the states has a AEM 50-1000 pump on his and it's working fine, needs a bit of messing to fit though. Stuff like the usual Walbro or HRC pumps won't work on mine so I'm a bit limited here. Also needs a new sensor that's no longer availabe so have to go down the refurb route. Common fault on these, p0089 code flashes and it's usually a sign of the pump dying.
....bit of a pain in the arse this since going to stage 5 tbh, still not right!! As soon as the pump & sensors sorted I'll send the logs to JZW and see if he can squeeze a bit more out of it
he's adamant it's close to 400bhp now but the pumps letting me down so I'm running a tamer map
Just read your spec, didn't realise you'd upgraded to an 18T, it must absolutely fly now. Have you any plans to get it rolling roaded? Be interesting to see what it produces with the new pump.It's a funny non returnless system on the v6 so most just fit a new standard pump which is meant to be good for 500bhp but one of the lads in the states has a AEM 50-1000 pump on his and it's working fine, needs a bit of messing to fit though. Stuff like the usual Walbro or HRC pumps won't work on mine so I'm a bit limited here. Also needs a new sensor that's no longer availabe so have to go down the refurb route. Common fault on these, p0089 code flashes and it's usually a sign of the pump dying.
....bit of a pain in the arse this since going to stage 5 tbh, still not right!! As soon as the pump & sensors sorted I'll send the logs to JZW and see if he can squeeze a bit more out of it
he's adamant it's close to 400bhp now but the pumps letting me down so I'm running a tamer map Yeah goes alright, caught a few out bar a bonkers quick X5 that I just couldn't get close to. That thing was insane!! 
It's the twin scroll 18t from the Insignia VXR, bolt on swap so nice cheap upgrade and popular swap for the Vectra VXR lads, hardly any extra lag but gives a fair bit more shove above 5k where the 15 would be rapidly dropping off. This just keeps pulling hard to redline. Had it dyno'd back in March but came in really low and closer to what stage 1 gets, 328bhp & 414ft/lbs, miles lower than stage 5 should be and the numbers don't match with how it drives. He tired a pull from 3k but kept getting wheel spin so did the run from low down and it hit throttle cut, dumped a load of boost and ran lean. Does this on the road if I go WOT from 2k, ease it in from 2 then nail it at 3 and it's off like a stabbed rat. I'll get it on a dynojet for a couple hours when the fuel pumps done, hoping to get John online the same time so he can map it while I'm there. He's convinced it's 400bhp so we'll see how it goes next time without all the problems.
It's the twin scroll 18t from the Insignia VXR, bolt on swap so nice cheap upgrade and popular swap for the Vectra VXR lads, hardly any extra lag but gives a fair bit more shove above 5k where the 15 would be rapidly dropping off. This just keeps pulling hard to redline. Had it dyno'd back in March but came in really low and closer to what stage 1 gets, 328bhp & 414ft/lbs, miles lower than stage 5 should be and the numbers don't match with how it drives. He tired a pull from 3k but kept getting wheel spin so did the run from low down and it hit throttle cut, dumped a load of boost and ran lean. Does this on the road if I go WOT from 2k, ease it in from 2 then nail it at 3 and it's off like a stabbed rat. I'll get it on a dynojet for a couple hours when the fuel pumps done, hoping to get John online the same time so he can map it while I'm there. He's convinced it's 400bhp so we'll see how it goes next time without all the problems.
griffin dai said:
Yeah goes alright, caught a few out bar a bonkers quick X5 that I just couldn't get close to. That thing was insane!!
It's the twin scroll 18t from the Insignia VXR, bolt on swap so nice cheap upgrade and popular swap for the Vectra VXR lads, hardly any extra lag but gives a fair bit more shove above 5k where the 15 would be rapidly dropping off. This just keeps pulling hard to redline. Had it dyno'd back in March but came in really low and closer to what stage 1 gets, 328bhp & 414ft/lbs, miles lower than stage 5 should be and the numbers don't match with how it drives. He tired a pull from 3k but kept getting wheel spin so did the run from low down and it hit throttle cut, dumped a load of boost and ran lean. Does this on the road if I go WOT from 2k, ease it in from 2 then nail it at 3 and it's off like a stabbed rat. I'll get it on a dynojet for a couple hours when the fuel pumps done, hoping to get John online the same time so he can map it while I'm there. He's convinced it's 400bhp so we'll see how it goes next time without all the problems.
Was it a mapped X5M? Should be over 600 bhp with a map?It's the twin scroll 18t from the Insignia VXR, bolt on swap so nice cheap upgrade and popular swap for the Vectra VXR lads, hardly any extra lag but gives a fair bit more shove above 5k where the 15 would be rapidly dropping off. This just keeps pulling hard to redline. Had it dyno'd back in March but came in really low and closer to what stage 1 gets, 328bhp & 414ft/lbs, miles lower than stage 5 should be and the numbers don't match with how it drives. He tired a pull from 3k but kept getting wheel spin so did the run from low down and it hit throttle cut, dumped a load of boost and ran lean. Does this on the road if I go WOT from 2k, ease it in from 2 then nail it at 3 and it's off like a stabbed rat. I'll get it on a dynojet for a couple hours when the fuel pumps done, hoping to get John online the same time so he can map it while I'm there. He's convinced it's 400bhp so we'll see how it goes next time without all the problems.
griffin dai said:
No idea, serious bit of kit though and handled really well, I recon my old 9000 would have had trouble keeping with it. Pulled 2-3 car lengths on me then I gave up (missis sat smirking next to me didn't help!!)
Wasn't this was it? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC33J-zMR78
griffin dai said:
I would 
You'll be suprised how much better it puts the power down, no fuss just point & go (if the tyres are good enough!!)
Nah not much point upgrading the turbo here, 60-90 times are pretty much on par with the billet 20T lot running the e85 race tune, I'll just concentrate on the cooling side next year with a bigger rad and change the IC for something a bit thinner but more surface area. Probably the do88 kit Next for mine is the fuel pump
I've heard a few people mention that an LSD can affect fuel economy because there's constantly extra load on the drivetrain. Is there any truth in that? You'll be suprised how much better it puts the power down, no fuss just point & go (if the tyres are good enough!!) Nah not much point upgrading the turbo here, 60-90 times are pretty much on par with the billet 20T lot running the e85 race tune, I'll just concentrate on the cooling side next year with a bigger rad and change the IC for something a bit thinner but more surface area. Probably the do88 kit
Next for mine is the fuel pump HybridAero said:
I've heard a few people mention that an LSD can affect fuel economy because there's constantly extra load on the drivetrain. Is there any truth in that?
MPG's pretty crap on mine anyway budd so can't say if it's any worst after the diff. They've probably been canning it more and testing the Quaife out As the wheels look spot on with the black NEVS style Saab badges..
..I decided to order some NEVS bonnet and boot badges. Additionally I discovered that pressed numberplates are legal (always thought they weren't for some reason) so bought some along with some numberplate frames from the guys over at Nordic Tuning Dalarna in Sweden, a company I've always admired and regard as the pinnacle of Saab tuning. Very friendly to deal with and rapid delivery!
http://www.en.nordictuningdalarna.com
Nordic's crazy 800 bhp 9-5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxSltzHvBA8
..I decided to order some NEVS bonnet and boot badges. Additionally I discovered that pressed numberplates are legal (always thought they weren't for some reason) so bought some along with some numberplate frames from the guys over at Nordic Tuning Dalarna in Sweden, a company I've always admired and regard as the pinnacle of Saab tuning. Very friendly to deal with and rapid delivery!
http://www.en.nordictuningdalarna.com
Nordic's crazy 800 bhp 9-5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxSltzHvBA8
Edited by HybridAero on Saturday 15th April 18:45
xjay1337 said:
Will the rods be fine for the barrage of torque and the increased power with the GT30?
It should be fine, having a b234 bottom end. A b204 (same block and rods) running an HX40 super turbo has been tuned to 666 bhp on standard pistons and rods http://www.serioussaab.co.uk/articles_pages/B2x4tr... so I would guess a well maintained b234 at 450 would be reasonably safe. Putting this on the backburner for now though due to needing to save up for a house and wanting to go travelling. Also before a big turbo I've decided to fit an LSD if anything as especially with the current weather you have to modulate the throttle.Typically I used to get 22 mpg combined, giving it some welly pretty much every time, once the engine was warmed up. Decided to adjust my driving style and it's now returning 29 mpg and is creeping towards 30, on a mixed route of b roads, a roads and round town.
I'm sure Vigge's car is around 720, might be more by now? Here's his standing mile from a few years ago
https://youtu.be/qW-z__-OcOw
https://youtu.be/qW-z__-OcOw
Excellent build thread HybridAero!!
I've stumbled across this while looking at TD04 upgrade options for my own project.
Currently at St3+ but weighing up the options of the next move as it will be forged internals and an 18t and injectors but that will also warrant a B12 kit too so that's a fair undertaking after shelling out £££s last year on wheels and brakes fuel pump and DI :-(
I'm still trying to decide if its really going to work with an auto or not - cant seem to find an LSD to fit the auto to reign in the front end. 300 is already at the limits of a polybushed chassis on stock aero suspension with SAS bars so another 30-40 or so could be unusable in all except straight lines.
I've stumbled across this while looking at TD04 upgrade options for my own project.
Currently at St3+ but weighing up the options of the next move as it will be forged internals and an 18t and injectors but that will also warrant a B12 kit too so that's a fair undertaking after shelling out £££s last year on wheels and brakes fuel pump and DI :-(
I'm still trying to decide if its really going to work with an auto or not - cant seem to find an LSD to fit the auto to reign in the front end. 300 is already at the limits of a polybushed chassis on stock aero suspension with SAS bars so another 30-40 or so could be unusable in all except straight lines.
eucalyptus9000 said:
Excellent build thread HybridAero!!
I've stumbled across this while looking at TD04 upgrade options for my own project.
Currently at St3+ but weighing up the options of the next move as it will be forged internals and an 18t and injectors but that will also warrant a B12 kit too so that's a fair undertaking after shelling out £££s last year on wheels and brakes fuel pump and DI :-(
I'm still trying to decide if its really going to work with an auto or not - cant seem to find an LSD to fit the auto to reign in the front end. 300 is already at the limits of a polybushed chassis on stock aero suspension with SAS bars so another 30-40 or so could be unusable in all except straight lines.
Thanks!! Your auto box can't handle much past stage 3, it'll be a ticking time bomb. You could fit an 18t but you won't be able to turn the wick up. If I were you I'd stick with stage 3 and do handling mods. B12s and an LSD would be fantastic although I don't know if there's an LSD for an auto. I reckon up to stage 3 an auto is ideal, anything past that you need manual with an uprated clutch (I've got a 550 NM Maptun clutch kit which was £258 from Neo Bros). Hope this helps! Also you'll need a FULL 3" exhaust not just downpipe to realise the potential of an 18t, problem is it's the auto box that'll hold you back. Wouldn't bother forging it unless going past stage 3.I've stumbled across this while looking at TD04 upgrade options for my own project.
Currently at St3+ but weighing up the options of the next move as it will be forged internals and an 18t and injectors but that will also warrant a B12 kit too so that's a fair undertaking after shelling out £££s last year on wheels and brakes fuel pump and DI :-(
I'm still trying to decide if its really going to work with an auto or not - cant seem to find an LSD to fit the auto to reign in the front end. 300 is already at the limits of a polybushed chassis on stock aero suspension with SAS bars so another 30-40 or so could be unusable in all except straight lines.
HybridAero said:
Thanks!! Your auto box can't handle much past stage 3, it'll be a ticking time bomb. You could fit an 18t but you won't be able to turn the wick up. If I were you I'd stick with stage 3 and do handling mods. B12s and an LSD would be fantastic although I don't know if there's an LSD for an auto. I reckon up to stage 3 an auto is ideal, anything past that you need manual with an uprated clutch (I've got a 550 NM Maptun clutch kit which was £258 from Neo Bros). Hope this helps! Also you'll need a FULL 3" exhaust not just downpipe to realise the potential of an 18t, problem is it's the auto box that'll hold you back. Wouldn't bother forging it unless going past stage 3.
Going the forged route appeals just to reduce the mass and make a sweeter engine, the other bits would be bonus. Its mainly a M4 crusier so its not getting a regular hammering.I think that 330-350/480-500 would be ok.
Yeh the forged route will save you around 8 kg from all 4 pistons and make engine pretty bulletproof. I urge you to speak to Karl at Noobtune regarding auto box torque and power limits who I presume you're using for mapping? Currently waiting for strut brace to be shotblasted and powdercoated in gunmetal (only £50) so will post on here when fitted. When you thinking of carrying out these mods?
(going off topic slightly here )I've got a Speedparts LHD 3-piece brace which I am going to get 'altered' to fit (cut the section out and get a new bit shaped and welded in).
I was looking to get a small production run done to my own modified design of the speedparts item (to clear the fluid reservoir) but I cant get the right people interested for such a small run (30-60 units) as it needs CNC machining (which most of the small guys dont seem to have) and some pricey aluminium 8x4 sheeting so some hefty up-front cost for me too foot before getting full payments in.
I'm in contact with Karl re next steps. Basically the next steps are my choice - we are mapped to about 440nm or so (maybe 460) now and could go a bit further but not without mods.No one seems to have taken the auto box very far but I believe that there is more scope than folks give it credit for. Unless I was always racing it (which I dont) then its rarely on sustained max torque. You simply cant drive on the road like that all the time. So, the MAX torque rating for the box is max sustained load, not 'don't go over this figure or the box will simply instantly explode'.
I've been looking at the Insignia VXR forums and they have the same sort if discussion with tuning the 2.8 as that has huge scope for more torque and they are going 100+nm over the 'manufacturers recomended' torque figure with no detonations on that same basis that its not constant load all the time.
If I get proved wrong and the box explodes then it gets a manual conversion or a new auto and de-tuned :-)
I'm not an engineer but if they suggest max load then there must be some degree of safety headroom there. 440nm plus say 10% offers a nice 480-490nm. I'd go with that!
)I've got a Speedparts LHD 3-piece brace which I am going to get 'altered' to fit (cut the section out and get a new bit shaped and welded in).I was looking to get a small production run done to my own modified design of the speedparts item (to clear the fluid reservoir) but I cant get the right people interested for such a small run (30-60 units) as it needs CNC machining (which most of the small guys dont seem to have) and some pricey aluminium 8x4 sheeting so some hefty up-front cost for me too foot before getting full payments in.
I'm in contact with Karl re next steps. Basically the next steps are my choice - we are mapped to about 440nm or so (maybe 460) now and could go a bit further but not without mods.No one seems to have taken the auto box very far but I believe that there is more scope than folks give it credit for. Unless I was always racing it (which I dont) then its rarely on sustained max torque. You simply cant drive on the road like that all the time. So, the MAX torque rating for the box is max sustained load, not 'don't go over this figure or the box will simply instantly explode'.
I've been looking at the Insignia VXR forums and they have the same sort if discussion with tuning the 2.8 as that has huge scope for more torque and they are going 100+nm over the 'manufacturers recomended' torque figure with no detonations on that same basis that its not constant load all the time.
If I get proved wrong and the box explodes then it gets a manual conversion or a new auto and de-tuned :-)
I'm not an engineer but if they suggest max load then there must be some degree of safety headroom there. 440nm plus say 10% offers a nice 480-490nm. I'd go with that!
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff