Lotus Elise 111R
Discussion
Right, wheels!
If you remember, these were my considerations:
Option A: Get new alloy wheels in Exige fitment, with brand new tyres all round. Probably of track spec.
Option B: Replace just the fronts. Get Bridgestones again, probably S001's to match the rears.
Option C: Replace tyres all round with AD07s. These were OEM fitment for pretty much every other Elise of the era, think the bridgestones were a one-off.
I ended up kinda going for Option A, but not quite. To get Exige wheels would have been quite lucky, they come up rarely it seems and are expensive when they do. With that in mind, I was likely to go after-market - my good old faithful TD Pro Race 1.2s were high on the list.
Brand new I could get a set in Exige fitment for around £500, priced up tyres for about another £400 - so I parked the idea for now.
I was then cruising through eBay as you do, and saw a set of 1.2's in Exige fitment, with A048 LTS tyres... apparently only done 2 track days and had loads of tread left. Stuck a bid in, ended up winning them for £550
They arrived this weekend and I'm over the moon with the condition of the wheels and tyres. The wheels had a couple of tiny chips, but to be honest they look like handling damage rather than stone chips... perhaps even happened in transit to me but they're invisible from more than 2 feet away
Tyres are equally brilliant, they barely look scrubbed in with loads of tread and equal wear all around.
Oh, they came in black too. Never had black wheels before as I've never been a fan. 9 times out of 10 the colour hides the detail in the wheel, and they scratch easily (or at least show scratches easily), but these were cheap and I quite like them on the car. If/When they come for refurb, they may go to silver or whatever but I've got time to think about that.
Starting to look like a naff pit garage...
Got them polished up and coated in Poorboy's finest. I think I'd quite like some Lotus centre caps for them to break up the black a bit.
Had technicolour wheelnuts too, so they got a scrub up and a dusting of gloss black. Would like to do a stud conversion at somepoint.
Went out for a drive today with some NYLOC members, went over the Pennines and had a look round a Lotus dealer in Cheshire. I was by far in the oldest/crappest car, surrounded by V6 Exiges which sounded fantastic.
As the roads were wet in the morning, I got one last photo of a clean car!
View of some of the Oakmere Lotus collection. I did get some ideas for "modernising" mine a bit aesthetically from the newer Elises'.
Car was fantastic all day, with the exception of left hand turns! I developed a scuffing sound when pulling a consistent left turn and got home to find the rubber sheathing on the handbrake cable must have been catching on the balance weights as they rotated past. Nothing a cable tie couldn't sort :thumbs:
10mins of daylight left, so of course - car got cleaned before being tucked up again.
If you remember, these were my considerations:
Option A: Get new alloy wheels in Exige fitment, with brand new tyres all round. Probably of track spec.
Option B: Replace just the fronts. Get Bridgestones again, probably S001's to match the rears.
Option C: Replace tyres all round with AD07s. These were OEM fitment for pretty much every other Elise of the era, think the bridgestones were a one-off.
I ended up kinda going for Option A, but not quite. To get Exige wheels would have been quite lucky, they come up rarely it seems and are expensive when they do. With that in mind, I was likely to go after-market - my good old faithful TD Pro Race 1.2s were high on the list.
Brand new I could get a set in Exige fitment for around £500, priced up tyres for about another £400 - so I parked the idea for now.
I was then cruising through eBay as you do, and saw a set of 1.2's in Exige fitment, with A048 LTS tyres... apparently only done 2 track days and had loads of tread left. Stuck a bid in, ended up winning them for £550
They arrived this weekend and I'm over the moon with the condition of the wheels and tyres. The wheels had a couple of tiny chips, but to be honest they look like handling damage rather than stone chips... perhaps even happened in transit to me but they're invisible from more than 2 feet away
Tyres are equally brilliant, they barely look scrubbed in with loads of tread and equal wear all around.
Oh, they came in black too. Never had black wheels before as I've never been a fan. 9 times out of 10 the colour hides the detail in the wheel, and they scratch easily (or at least show scratches easily), but these were cheap and I quite like them on the car. If/When they come for refurb, they may go to silver or whatever but I've got time to think about that.
Starting to look like a naff pit garage...
Got them polished up and coated in Poorboy's finest. I think I'd quite like some Lotus centre caps for them to break up the black a bit.
Had technicolour wheelnuts too, so they got a scrub up and a dusting of gloss black. Would like to do a stud conversion at somepoint.
Went out for a drive today with some NYLOC members, went over the Pennines and had a look round a Lotus dealer in Cheshire. I was by far in the oldest/crappest car, surrounded by V6 Exiges which sounded fantastic.
As the roads were wet in the morning, I got one last photo of a clean car!
View of some of the Oakmere Lotus collection. I did get some ideas for "modernising" mine a bit aesthetically from the newer Elises'.
Car was fantastic all day, with the exception of left hand turns! I developed a scuffing sound when pulling a consistent left turn and got home to find the rubber sheathing on the handbrake cable must have been catching on the balance weights as they rotated past. Nothing a cable tie couldn't sort :thumbs:
10mins of daylight left, so of course - car got cleaned before being tucked up again.
The "bad" bit though, is that these wheels and tyres have put me in a sticky spot. Internet said I shouldn't track this car on these wheels and tyres without both a baffled sump and uprated toe links.
Realistically, I'll drive this car like it's made out of glass for the first few track days until I learn it - so no way will I be pulling enough G's to cause problems, but paranoia has still got a hold of me.
Considering solving the initial problem on the skinny wheels by getting some part worns to replace the cracked ones. For sub £50 I could get them "safe" and perhaps do a couple of trackdays on my crap wheels and tyres first.
That way, I get to experience the car in OEM format (as I wanted to do in the first place), I'm not worried about oil surge or toe-links snapping and I get to get my moneys' worth out of the bridgestones!
AO48's can wait in the wings, then I can step up performance later in summer after the sump and links have been sorted.
Realistically, I'll drive this car like it's made out of glass for the first few track days until I learn it - so no way will I be pulling enough G's to cause problems, but paranoia has still got a hold of me.
Considering solving the initial problem on the skinny wheels by getting some part worns to replace the cracked ones. For sub £50 I could get them "safe" and perhaps do a couple of trackdays on my crap wheels and tyres first.
That way, I get to experience the car in OEM format (as I wanted to do in the first place), I'm not worried about oil surge or toe-links snapping and I get to get my moneys' worth out of the bridgestones!
AO48's can wait in the wings, then I can step up performance later in summer after the sump and links have been sorted.
Had a fun few days with the car, just driving around really when I probably should be nursing it in the garage :|
Had my first bit of on-the-road drama in it on Saturday, took it out for a leisurely drive to test some go-pro mounting positions and about 400metres from home I came round the same 90degrees left that I take several times a day, and the road was a combination of greasy/slimey/cold and the car understeered into it a little bit at very slow speed. Gave it a bit of gas and the back came round nicely, caught it and carried on like a boss - but I f
king st my pants!
Since I was testing gopro mounts, I actually got it on video too - but it looks nowhere near as dramatic or cool as it felt!
Since then I've half-intentionally done that a few more times on various corners just playing with the low limits on terrible slippy roads, I can't wait to get some proper circuit time with this car and hopefully some tuition - it seems to have so much more potential for driver input than the Subaru had, at least at lower speeds.
Today I popped in to see the guys at Track Torque in North Yorks, they did the geo on my Subaru a few times and they also happen to be Lotus specialists so they had a quick look over the car to see if it had any lurking nasties for me to deal with. Nothing major, but the handbrake cable has been scuffing on the inside of my driver side rear wheel on heavy left turns. As a result, the rubber sheathing has worn through and the cable has started corroding. Additionally, my rear flexi brake hoses are looking questionable due to heavy corrosion at their fittings so advised to swap them out.
Normally I'd go for braided hoses fairly early into ownership of a car, just because they're cheap and (IMO) make a considerable difference for no real drawbacks. With the Lotus however, I'd read that the front clam needs to come off for the fronts. That job doesn't scare me particularly, but if/when the clam comes off - I'd want to tackle a load of other preventative maintenance at the same time, which I don't really want to be funding right now...
That said, Track Torque suggested I could just about do it with the clam still in place, and some further googling suggested that it's doable on Elises but not Exiges. With that in mind, I've ordered some braided hoses and collected a handbrake cable from JCT600 Lotus in Leeds this morning
I've got some time off work this week, so depending on how the weather is I may get the car jacked up and get this work done this week... or at least see how far I can get. Worse case scenario I can do the handbrake cable and the rear flexi's which are the priority. The fronts can come later if needed.
Can't really have a thread update without a photo, so here's a before and after from today...
Had my first bit of on-the-road drama in it on Saturday, took it out for a leisurely drive to test some go-pro mounting positions and about 400metres from home I came round the same 90degrees left that I take several times a day, and the road was a combination of greasy/slimey/cold and the car understeered into it a little bit at very slow speed. Gave it a bit of gas and the back came round nicely, caught it and carried on like a boss - but I f
king st my pants!Since I was testing gopro mounts, I actually got it on video too - but it looks nowhere near as dramatic or cool as it felt!
Since then I've half-intentionally done that a few more times on various corners just playing with the low limits on terrible slippy roads, I can't wait to get some proper circuit time with this car and hopefully some tuition - it seems to have so much more potential for driver input than the Subaru had, at least at lower speeds.
Today I popped in to see the guys at Track Torque in North Yorks, they did the geo on my Subaru a few times and they also happen to be Lotus specialists so they had a quick look over the car to see if it had any lurking nasties for me to deal with. Nothing major, but the handbrake cable has been scuffing on the inside of my driver side rear wheel on heavy left turns. As a result, the rubber sheathing has worn through and the cable has started corroding. Additionally, my rear flexi brake hoses are looking questionable due to heavy corrosion at their fittings so advised to swap them out.
Normally I'd go for braided hoses fairly early into ownership of a car, just because they're cheap and (IMO) make a considerable difference for no real drawbacks. With the Lotus however, I'd read that the front clam needs to come off for the fronts. That job doesn't scare me particularly, but if/when the clam comes off - I'd want to tackle a load of other preventative maintenance at the same time, which I don't really want to be funding right now...
That said, Track Torque suggested I could just about do it with the clam still in place, and some further googling suggested that it's doable on Elises but not Exiges. With that in mind, I've ordered some braided hoses and collected a handbrake cable from JCT600 Lotus in Leeds this morning
I've got some time off work this week, so depending on how the weather is I may get the car jacked up and get this work done this week... or at least see how far I can get. Worse case scenario I can do the handbrake cable and the rear flexi's which are the priority. The fronts can come later if needed.
Can't really have a thread update without a photo, so here's a before and after from today...
Always good to learn the limits, more so on one of these.
Baffled sump is a nice to have, but unless you're doing a lot of TD's and and are one of the quicker drivers out there I'd say it's not an urgent necessity. Just keep a keen eye on the oil level.
Used TT in the past but wasn't that keen and go over to Pheonix now. You've prob seen Jon Seal has just started (officially) doing service work.
Of course if you've got a good relationship with TT, no need to change and they're local and it's a fun proving route home!
Wish I could have made the main run on Sun, not been for a proper run out since our rather wet TD in Nov.
Baffled sump is a nice to have, but unless you're doing a lot of TD's and and are one of the quicker drivers out there I'd say it's not an urgent necessity. Just keep a keen eye on the oil level.
Used TT in the past but wasn't that keen and go over to Pheonix now. You've prob seen Jon Seal has just started (officially) doing service work.
Of course if you've got a good relationship with TT, no need to change and they're local and it's a fun proving route home!
Wish I could have made the main run on Sun, not been for a proper run out since our rather wet TD in Nov.
Edited by Rick101 on Monday 15th February 17:23
Rick101 said:
Always good to learn the limits, more so on one of these.
Used TT in the past but wasn't that keen and go over to Pheonix now. You've prob seen Jon Seal has just started (officially) doing service work.
Of course if you've got a good relationship with TT, no need to change and they're local and it's a fun proving route home!
Yeah I saw that Jon was now doing servicing, can only be good for us customers to have more people squabbling for business Used TT in the past but wasn't that keen and go over to Pheonix now. You've prob seen Jon Seal has just started (officially) doing service work.
Of course if you've got a good relationship with TT, no need to change and they're local and it's a fun proving route home!
Reading my post back, it maybe sounds like I've been hooning around everywhere sideways but that's very much not the case!! The roads have been almost skidpan like round here though, lots of mud from the farm vehicles + low temperatures + A048 tyres means the threshold for the "limits" is considerably lower.
Cheers Gavin
In light of the feedback I got from Track Torque, I picked up a replacement handbrake cable and some braided brake hoses.
Last week I got to work fitting them:
This is where the handbrake cable was catching on the rear wheel.
It seems like water had gotten into the "springy bit" of the cable and had effectively expanded it, causing it to bulge out at the side and catch the wheel under moderate cornering.
Handbrake cable was a doddle to get out, quick pin release to detach the halfmoon bit from the primary cable and then just slacken off the adjusters... though I did take a dremel related shortcut to get it off.
Pre-Adjustment shot of the new one fitted:
Next up, brake hoses... as I said before, I'd been under the impression that front clam needs to come off for the fronts but that appears to be Exige specific advice.
With the service panels and grills off (few allen bolts and clips) you get access to the resevoir:
And deeper down you can see the unions between the brake lines and rubber hoses:
The passenger side wasn't obstructed by the ABS plumbing, so was much easier - but either way, it wasn't massively difficult to undo the rubbers.
The front hoses actually looked in decent nick, perhaps they've been changed in the recent past of the car. The rears though looked ancient:
I'm really not a fan of this type of brake hoses which is threaded at each end, I much prefer the ones I had on the Subaru APs which had a banjo fitting at one end.
With these Lotus ones, I had to removed each caliper so that I could screw the caliper onto the hose (if that makes sense) once the hardline end was attached. I got there eventually, though.
Then it was time to bleed. The missus and me got fairly good at bleeding brakes on the Subaru but the Lotus just wasn't playing ball. I did some Googling and found that it's typical of these front calipers to capture air pockets due to how the fluid is routed through them. The trick is to unbolt the calipers from the car and basically shake them around to dislodge the air pocket whilst bleeding.
So I didn't have to keep bugging the missus, I (finally) invested £20 into a Gunson Eazibleed kit. I know they get mixed results, but it worked really well for me.
Pressurised the reservoir with 20psi from a spare wheel/tyre (got plenty of those lying around...) and then just went round each corner bleeding off the bubbles.
I've now got solid brakes but still a fair bit of travel in the top of the pedal (had that before too). It may just be a pedal adjustment needed rather than further bleeding, the brakes come on nice and solid and bite much harder than they did pre-hoses/bleed.
Even if the pedal can be adjusted, I think I'm reluctant to do so as I'm finding a nice heel-toe position with the car now, and having that little bit of slack in the brake increases the theshold for getting that right IMO. You soon forget about the slack and "drive around it" anyway.
In light of the feedback I got from Track Torque, I picked up a replacement handbrake cable and some braided brake hoses.
Last week I got to work fitting them:
This is where the handbrake cable was catching on the rear wheel.
It seems like water had gotten into the "springy bit" of the cable and had effectively expanded it, causing it to bulge out at the side and catch the wheel under moderate cornering.
Handbrake cable was a doddle to get out, quick pin release to detach the halfmoon bit from the primary cable and then just slacken off the adjusters... though I did take a dremel related shortcut to get it off.
Pre-Adjustment shot of the new one fitted:
Next up, brake hoses... as I said before, I'd been under the impression that front clam needs to come off for the fronts but that appears to be Exige specific advice.
With the service panels and grills off (few allen bolts and clips) you get access to the resevoir:
And deeper down you can see the unions between the brake lines and rubber hoses:
The passenger side wasn't obstructed by the ABS plumbing, so was much easier - but either way, it wasn't massively difficult to undo the rubbers.
The front hoses actually looked in decent nick, perhaps they've been changed in the recent past of the car. The rears though looked ancient:
I'm really not a fan of this type of brake hoses which is threaded at each end, I much prefer the ones I had on the Subaru APs which had a banjo fitting at one end.
With these Lotus ones, I had to removed each caliper so that I could screw the caliper onto the hose (if that makes sense) once the hardline end was attached. I got there eventually, though.
Then it was time to bleed. The missus and me got fairly good at bleeding brakes on the Subaru but the Lotus just wasn't playing ball. I did some Googling and found that it's typical of these front calipers to capture air pockets due to how the fluid is routed through them. The trick is to unbolt the calipers from the car and basically shake them around to dislodge the air pocket whilst bleeding.
So I didn't have to keep bugging the missus, I (finally) invested £20 into a Gunson Eazibleed kit. I know they get mixed results, but it worked really well for me.
Pressurised the reservoir with 20psi from a spare wheel/tyre (got plenty of those lying around...) and then just went round each corner bleeding off the bubbles.
I've now got solid brakes but still a fair bit of travel in the top of the pedal (had that before too). It may just be a pedal adjustment needed rather than further bleeding, the brakes come on nice and solid and bite much harder than they did pre-hoses/bleed.
Even if the pedal can be adjusted, I think I'm reluctant to do so as I'm finding a nice heel-toe position with the car now, and having that little bit of slack in the brake increases the theshold for getting that right IMO. You soon forget about the slack and "drive around it" anyway.
Been collecting a few bits the last few weeks, got a smaller rear view mirror to help give me a better "gopro angle" and some mechanical bits before my first track outing.
Oh, also booked my first track outing - a CarLimits circuit tuition day at Blyton in mid-April. Read some excellent reviews and had a few positive stories from some NYLOC members about the tuition provided by Andy Walsh on these. He does two types of training day from what I can gather, circuit and airfield. I'd like to do an airfield day too at somepoint but they're not very local, but on these you get to do some very high speed oversteer stuff.
Blyton is my local circuit, I know it very well and really look forward to getting some proper tuition there to help my RWD/unassisted learning curve.
Speaking of Blyton, I drove there yesterday in the Lotus to spectate for a few hours for a LotusOnTrack trackday. Were some great cars out and got to see a few cars moving around a lot in directions I'm not used to! It got me excited anyway, bring on April.
Back to home, I've been collecting new supplies for the 2016 car cleaning campaign and with the good weather this weekend - got to work for the first "proper" clean of the Elise.
Gratuitous snowfoam shot first...
Numberplates ripped off to finally replace the old branded ones. Also had the front cut to the minimum legal border (11mm from all lettering).
The car got detarred (lots of sappy stuff on the horizontal surfaces, parked under a tree for a while I guess...) and clayed before being wheeled back into the garage.
I've picked up the gubbins from the Meguiars Microfibre kit, intended for DA use.
It was a pleasure to use really, the correction compound goes on with a red pad and finishing polish/wax with a black one. The car had a really good contender for "correction" on the rollbar cover, it looks like a botched attempt at fitting the roof had scuffed the lacquer nicely. Happy to say that the Meg's kit resolved it completely, much better correction than I've had from any other DA setup... but still not as good as a rotary in the hands of a pro I'm sure.
Finishing stuff went on easily, intended to do the whole car and buff off at once... missus dragged me out for a walk half way through and as a result the compound ended up being on the car for a couple of hours... it still buffed off with barely any pressure or effort.
Quick drive out for some finished photos, will see how long this finish lasts but will pick up some carnuba topup spray to keep it nice.
Oh, also booked my first track outing - a CarLimits circuit tuition day at Blyton in mid-April. Read some excellent reviews and had a few positive stories from some NYLOC members about the tuition provided by Andy Walsh on these. He does two types of training day from what I can gather, circuit and airfield. I'd like to do an airfield day too at somepoint but they're not very local, but on these you get to do some very high speed oversteer stuff.
Blyton is my local circuit, I know it very well and really look forward to getting some proper tuition there to help my RWD/unassisted learning curve.
Speaking of Blyton, I drove there yesterday in the Lotus to spectate for a few hours for a LotusOnTrack trackday. Were some great cars out and got to see a few cars moving around a lot in directions I'm not used to! It got me excited anyway, bring on April.
Back to home, I've been collecting new supplies for the 2016 car cleaning campaign and with the good weather this weekend - got to work for the first "proper" clean of the Elise.
Gratuitous snowfoam shot first...
Numberplates ripped off to finally replace the old branded ones. Also had the front cut to the minimum legal border (11mm from all lettering).
The car got detarred (lots of sappy stuff on the horizontal surfaces, parked under a tree for a while I guess...) and clayed before being wheeled back into the garage.
I've picked up the gubbins from the Meguiars Microfibre kit, intended for DA use.
It was a pleasure to use really, the correction compound goes on with a red pad and finishing polish/wax with a black one. The car had a really good contender for "correction" on the rollbar cover, it looks like a botched attempt at fitting the roof had scuffed the lacquer nicely. Happy to say that the Meg's kit resolved it completely, much better correction than I've had from any other DA setup... but still not as good as a rotary in the hands of a pro I'm sure.
Finishing stuff went on easily, intended to do the whole car and buff off at once... missus dragged me out for a walk half way through and as a result the compound ended up being on the car for a couple of hours... it still buffed off with barely any pressure or effort.
Quick drive out for some finished photos, will see how long this finish lasts but will pick up some carnuba topup spray to keep it nice.
Thanks Rick, http://www.fancyplates.com/
They will make up whatever you want - legal or otherwise, though if you want the same as my front you'll need to select the "fancy plate" option and just explain in the description exactly what you need.
They will make up whatever you want - legal or otherwise, though if you want the same as my front you'll need to select the "fancy plate" option and just explain in the description exactly what you need.
Thanks all, I do indeed like the colour.
RE: The Rust, It seems to be very common, a very popular winter activity for Lotus/VX owners is a full suspension refresh which involves removing the wishbones, toe links and hubs - deep cleaning them, blasting/replating and then protecting it all with POR15 or similar before rebuilding with fresh bushes. The rust is rarely anything other than aesthetic, parts don't tend to need replacing with the exception of the balljoints which are inexpensive.
Oh, the factory Bilsteins also have a life expectancy of only about 50k miles too, presumably the stiff chassis and/or setup of the car puts excess force through them compared to a normal road car(?) but either way, replacements are relatively cheap even though most people go for aftermarket coilovers.
RE: The Rust, It seems to be very common, a very popular winter activity for Lotus/VX owners is a full suspension refresh which involves removing the wishbones, toe links and hubs - deep cleaning them, blasting/replating and then protecting it all with POR15 or similar before rebuilding with fresh bushes. The rust is rarely anything other than aesthetic, parts don't tend to need replacing with the exception of the balljoints which are inexpensive.
Oh, the factory Bilsteins also have a life expectancy of only about 50k miles too, presumably the stiff chassis and/or setup of the car puts excess force through them compared to a normal road car(?) but either way, replacements are relatively cheap even though most people go for aftermarket coilovers.
Fonzey said:
Thanks all, I do indeed like the colour.
RE: The Rust, It seems to be very common, a very popular winter activity for Lotus/VX owners is a full suspension refresh which involves removing the wishbones, toe links and hubs - deep cleaning them, blasting/replating and then protecting it all with POR15 or similar before rebuilding with fresh bushes. The rust is rarely anything other than aesthetic, parts don't tend to need replacing with the exception of the balljoints which are inexpensive.
Oh, the factory Bilsteins also have a life expectancy of only about 50k miles too, presumably the stiff chassis and/or setup of the car puts excess force through them compared to a normal road car(?) but either way, replacements are relatively cheap even though most people go for aftermarket coilovers.
Thanks for the reply. Did you look at/test drive any VX's? If so how do they compare?RE: The Rust, It seems to be very common, a very popular winter activity for Lotus/VX owners is a full suspension refresh which involves removing the wishbones, toe links and hubs - deep cleaning them, blasting/replating and then protecting it all with POR15 or similar before rebuilding with fresh bushes. The rust is rarely anything other than aesthetic, parts don't tend to need replacing with the exception of the balljoints which are inexpensive.
Oh, the factory Bilsteins also have a life expectancy of only about 50k miles too, presumably the stiff chassis and/or setup of the car puts excess force through them compared to a normal road car(?) but either way, replacements are relatively cheap even though most people go for aftermarket coilovers.
Cheers
Mike
That is a very lovely car
As above, John Seal is a great guy to know locally as he often has useful bits of kit for sale.
Maybe 'll see you on track one day, sign-up to Lotus-on-Track to get out with other Lotus's/Lotus derivatives and selected others, really well organised days and it's always great to be on track in similar cars
As above, John Seal is a great guy to know locally as he often has useful bits of kit for sale.
Maybe 'll see you on track one day, sign-up to Lotus-on-Track to get out with other Lotus's/Lotus derivatives and selected others, really well organised days and it's always great to be on track in similar cars
Great thread, and I recognise that barn in those last shots so you can't be far from me!
snotrag said:
Edited by snotrag on Monday 14th March 12:53
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