Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super

[Paul S4]

Regarding this Heated Rear Window issue, does anyone know if it affects the 156 saloon ?

Mine has stopped working so it may be a similar fix.

[rxe]

My 155 is a V6, same design principle (plenum connected to manifold with dodgy bits of rubber), but different parts. From the day I got it, it had a rough idle, enough to be irritating but not enough to be a problem. Turned out that one of the rubber connectors had failed on the back of the tube, completely invisible. I found it with a stethoscope made out of a bit of underfloor heating tube, a clear whistle by the offending item. Replacements costed an absurd amount of money and I needed 6 of the things!

[RicksAlfas]

Great thread. Really enjoyed reading it.


I recently cured a lumpy idle on my Range Rover by adjusting the throttle potentiometer. When the car is idling the throttle pot should be showing a certain voltage. If it's not, you can twist it slightly until you get the correct reading. Sometimes the mounting holes need to be filed out slightly to achieve this. If you can find this value it would be worth a look. It's a five minute job and a movement the width of a KitKat wrapper made a huge difference to the running of the car. How you find out the voltage for yours... I don't know.

[Spinakerr]

Paul S4 said:

Regarding this Heated Rear Window issue, does anyone know if it affects the 156 saloon ?

Mine has stopped working so it may be a similar fix.

Different circuits I believe - I think the 156 rear screen issue is relay-related. Are the wing mirror heaters working too? If not, likely a fuse/relay - if just the rear screen it may be a join or connector to the rear glass. Good luck!

rxe said:

My 155 is a V6, same design principle (plenum connected to manifold with dodgy bits of rubber), but different parts. From the day I got it, it had a rough idle, enough to be irritating but not enough to be a problem. Turned out that one of the rubber connectors had failed on the back of the tube, completely invisible. I found it with a stethoscope made out of a bit of underfloor heating tube, a clear whistle by the offending item. Replacements costed an absurd amount of money and I needed 6 of the things!

Thanks, various italian sites have much cheaper original parts in stock, just need to get the diameters right as there are conflicting reports. 'Manicotto' is the search term that proved useful!

RicksAlfas said:

Great thread. Really enjoyed reading it.


I recently cured a lumpy idle on my Range Rover by adjusting the throttle potentiometer. When the car is idling the throttle pot should be showing a certain voltage. If it's not, you can twist it slightly until you get the correct reading. Sometimes the mounting holes need to be filed out slightly to achieve this. If you can find this value it would be worth a look. It's a five minute job and a movement the width of a KitKat wrapper made a huge difference to the running of the car. How you find out the voltage for yours... I don't know.

Thanks - the TPS and main MAF have been checked on the voltage side, but may need further cleaning and adjustment to narrow down the problem. I have all the technical manuals for the electrical system, just need to get a 3 pin fiat adapter to read the faults codes as mentioned earlier.

Onward, to a stable idle!

[Spinakerr]

A house move is taking up the time/finances for the more serious work required on the 164, but I've managed to tick off two tasks:

The boot floor had completely disintegrated so my local timber merchant helped out with some damp-proof MDF. Not a perfect fit for the irregular octagon Alfa designed, but a vast improvement for me. Luckily the staff had old Alfa stories and were keen to help out with a 'one-off':

IMAG3349_zpsuqvtui6i by James Vincent, on Flickr

IMAG3350_zpsgfpf2rdn by James Vincent, on Flickr

Now all I have to do is get round to cleaning the interior. Perhaps after the house move...

IMAG3347_zpsifa3mflj by James Vincent, on Flickr

Next, my Italian work colleagues helped me out searching .it websites, and we finally tracked down a NOS wooden 164 gearknox to match the wheel.

IMAG3358_zpsl4au90s7 by James Vincent, on Flickr

Given the state of the old leather knob, this has come just in time.

IMAG3361_zpskfwpua3o by James Vincent, on Flickr

Finally in place!

IMAG3373_zpsoroz683q by James Vincent, on Flickr

Now all I need is a fully refurbished gearbox and drivetrain on the end of it.

This definitely adds 10bhp.

Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:26

[Evoluzione]

I'm enjoying the thread, keep up the good work
At the other end of the scale there were quite a few 164s raced in the past Worldwide, I don't think many left now though due to the 156, but this one is still going in the Swedish Alfa challenge:



Doing quite well too:

[Spinakerr]

I'd love to take something (anything!) Alfa-shaped on to a track but alas not at the lifestage yet that makes it possible.

After a long-winded house move, the 164 enjoyed a brief spell in the new garage before being relegated to the street as we begin tearing apart the house. Funds and time may be seriously lacking, but I am keen to solve the idle issue before the winter and have begun amalgamating various parts.

Recently I was enamoured with the idea of a metal intake plenum (see earlier in the thread), and a £15 to Slovenia later, this arrived:

IMAG3706_zpsq0qi1brd by James Vincent, on Flickr

IMAG3708_zpsnjsswulh by James Vincent, on Flickr

Unfortunately the angles and dimensions are all wrong, it must be for a much earlier 164 or even a 155. Never mind - I'm sure I can find it a loving home in the Alfa community.

The most unobtainable part thus far are the inlet to cylinder rubber 'sleeves' that are one of the primary suspects of the idle issue. Seemingly specific to the late 164 and (perhaps) the S4 Spider, no Alfa spare suppliers, breakers or ebay sellers can provide what I need. 55mm internal one end, 45mm internal the other and 45mm in height. I've been speaking to some silicone hose producers but so far all options seem rather expensive.

IMAG3716_zpszgjvu8r6 by James Vincent, on Flickr

Can anyone help me?

Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:36

[Kringle]

Loving the thread, love the car. Personally if I couldn't source the part (do they not have an alfa online parts catalogue? Having the part number would make searching easier?) I would go down the wife infuriating route of making my own with silicone. There Information out there on how to do it. I would then keep the mould and produce extras for poor 164 owners. Keeping as many on the road as possible.

[Spinakerr]

Thanks, much appreciated - I think I've narrowed it down to 60593553, which was produced for only a few years for both the 155 and 164. I can find the grand total of one online!

Various silicone suppliers have been helpful, but the short length and cost to mould it seems steep. I'm going to keep phoning around for quotes and just giving the dimensions too - there may be some obscure match from a Fiat/Lancia something-or other.

Took it for a run today - surprisingly eager, even and quick to start. Love this car.

[Vitorio]

Spinakerr said:

Thanks, much appreciated - I think I've narrowed it down to 60593553, which was produced for only a few years for both the 155 and 164. I can find the grand total of one online!

Various silicone suppliers have been helpful, but the short length and cost to mould it seems steep. I'm going to keep phoning around for quotes and just giving the dimensions too - there may be some obscure match from a Fiat/Lancia something-or other.

Took it for a run today - surprisingly eager, even and quick to start. Love this car.

Have you tried the usual suspects? Alfa dealers etc? You are located in Holland right? Have you tried Van Lingen Alfa-parts?

Google turns up a couple of hits on ebay.it for that part number, and this german shop looks promissing:

https://www.online-teile.com/alfaromeo-ersatzteile...

[Spinakerr]

Actually I'm in London, but my German isn't too shabby and four are now on their way! Thank you Vitorio, much appreciated. Let's see what turns up!

The ebay.it is my usual haunt but no retailers had the number required after asking my Italian colleagues to help me with correspondence.

I now have most of the kit for a rebuild, clamps, new injectors (more on that later) and some other parts. I am tempted to changed the rumbling alternator while it's all off, but I don't think I have the time before the 10th July Southern Alfa Day.

[finlo]

Spinakerr said:

Actually I'm in London, but my German isn't too shabby and four are now on their way! Thank you Vitorio, much appreciated. Let's see what turns up!

The ebay.it is my usual haunt but no retailers had the number required after asking my Italian colleagues to help me with correspondence.

I now have most of the kit for a rebuild, clamps, new injectors (more on that later) and some other parts. I am tempted to changed the rumbling alternator while it's all off, but I don't think I have the time before the 10th July Southern Alfa Day.

11 months to swap an alternator!

Edited by finlo on Monday 29th August 18:09

[Vitorio]

Spinakerr said:

Actually I'm in London, but my German isn't too shabby and four are now on their way! Thank you Vitorio, much appreciated. Let's see what turns up!

Excellent, i hope it works out!

There is actually an old man living round the corner from me with a 164 TS, just say the word and ill go and nick his rubber jobbies

[Spinakerr]

finlo said:

11 months to swap an alternator!

Edited by finlo on Monday 29th August 18:09

Ha! I deserved that - I meant September. Though given it's been two years already, 11 months is likely accurate.

Vitorio said:

There is actually an old man living round the corner from me with a 164 TS, just say the word and ill go and nick his rubber jobbies

Just let me know if it looks like giving up - we need as many on the road as possible, and definitely parted out to the 164 register if they properly go kaput!

[Vitorio]

Spinakerr said:

Just let me know if it looks like giving up - we need as many on the road as possible, and definitely parted out to the 164 register if they properly go kaput!

Ill keep an eye out, but i doubt ill get a shot at it if it goes, i dont see the car every day, and i doubt itll end up with a "for sale" notice behind the windows..

It does look good though, the old man definitely takes care of it, wouldnt surprise me if he still has it in ten years

[Spinakerr]

Unfortunately the German company refunded my money as it turns out they're not available - search continues...

As I had the weekend to myself, and now have a driveway and a working water supply, I decided to clean the car properly. I tried to keep it presentable in my ownership but this time I went much deeper into the nooks and crannies. This snail was the last straw (he's been relocated to the Micra, don't worry):

IMAG3770_zpscz3ogizp by James Vincent, on Flickr

The car is covered in light marks, swirls and chips from a tough life in London but for the Southern Alfa day next Saturday I decided to see how much it could be lifted, and also cut the new wing and bumper to try and match the rest of the car.

Before:

IMAG3758_zpslcft8fqf by James Vincent, on Flickr

Notice the 'matt effect' spoiler:

IMAG3759_zps1piosqhs by James Vincent, on Flickr

IMAG3759_zps1piosqhs by James Vincent, on Flickr

Wing difference - milky:

IMAG3763_zpsmqidzjlx by James Vincent, on Flickr

The 164 is sealed very well - overlapping rubber, intelligent run-offs and joins, tight clips and overlaps. Unfortunately, these had never been cleaned, and it appears the car might have once been used to de-silt Dagobah:

IMAG3766_zpsweqkvza2 by James Vincent, on Flickr

IMAG3768_zps5yvqvnac by James Vincent, on Flickr

During, had a new pressure washer, some expensive shampoos and about four buckets to get rid of as much matter as possible. The new clay bar shrieked like toenails down an ironing board. I really thought I was doing some damage, but the amount of embedded nonsense that was excavated convinced me to plod on:

IMAG3781_zpslesckeml by James Vincent, on Flickr

The next day (after a rain shower, of course), I dried the car again and pulled every piece of garbage out of all the seals, then got to work cutting the panels that needed it. Various layers of polish helped, finished off with some suitable wax. I am extremely happy the result!

IMAG3804_zpstmd4bkyo by James Vincent, on Flickr

Boot matches spoiler for first time ever:

IMAG3809_zpstqkiztjf by James Vincent, on Flickr

New rear bumper matches the rest of the rear:

IMAG3812_zpsjl3p8pat by James Vincent, on Flickr

Presentable:

IMAG3808_zpshioxpmfz by James Vincent, on Flickr
IMAG3810_zpsifqtcnxu by James Vincent, on Flickr

I may even have got the wing mirrors to match too, which is a first.

Luckily it's under cover now for next Saturday. Now about the interior...

Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:43

[carinaman]

Good work. That looks lovely, some really nice photos there.

[Liggle]

Lovely motor, nice thread to read too. Keep up the good work!

[Spinakerr]

Thank you both - I ran out of time for the alloys, glass and interior. Hopefully Saturday will afford me a moment.

My front slam panel was an eyesore every time I opened the bonnet, so finally got round to swapping it for a newer item.

Past it's best:

IMAG3785_zpskzeg2bce by James Vincent, on Flickr

Preventative on the new item:

IMAG3795_zpsp2wzsgpz by James Vincent, on Flickr

Old and new:

IMAG3788_zpsq888mfmw by James Vincent, on Flickr

Gently nudging this car towards respectability...

IMAG3796_zpsxu7exjxi by James Vincent, on Flickr

Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:46

[rxe]

That radiator is letting the side down now! :-)

On the rubber things - probably worth stripping them out and seeing if they are actually cracked - they might be folded over, or have the sort of cracks that can be botched togeher with a dab of silicone or similar.