Citroen AX GT.......no idea what it's like!
Discussion
I've never had a TAN. Had 2x TKL's, 1x DAB, 1x XAE 1x XRX and a GTi with 'MMR'. A lot of the press cars seemed to have TAN though, and it seems 'AN' was a Reading identifier at one point, so Slough (Citroen HQ) would probably have used it. I know my BX used to be an 'MO' before its cheesey plate went on (went on so early in its life that 99% of the history features it, hence I left it on), and that was a Citroen HQ car. They probably used to pre-register them in big chunks and this distribute them across the country!
Anyway, back to the Bristol car
So, I took it to vote as previously mentioned (and forgot I took a pic of the momentous occasion!):
And, following the end of the British summer (06/05/16 - 10/05/16) this morning the car informed me it has a small leak:
Will check out the sunroof drainage tubes. It needed a wash in there anyway!
But the bit you're all on tenderhooks about, is obviously the dyno run! So, will an original, 245,000 mile carb-fed 1.4 economy Citroen be able to match its book figure? Ultimate Car Specs list the output as:
Or, in DIN (PS):
Ignore 'Engine Power (measured)', it's 'Wheel Power (measured)', 'Engine Power and Torque (corrected)' that are relevant. They're both the same runs, just been calculated using SAE (BHP to most people, and officially the unit of measure today) and DIN (also know as PS, or metric BHP - it's what most manufacturers in the 80's and 90's used as book figures).
Now granted, you can't say a figure achieved on a rolling road dyno can be used as factually 100% accurate, but in my experience this one is pretty bloody close! It's also a bit of a ball-buster too (the Ford S-Max 2.5T and Alfa 159 JTD that also went on that day both fell short) and it's been brutally honest over the years.
So the results officially, if you take 84bhp & 84lbft SAE as the book figures, was 86bhp & 92lbft! The graph starts to tail off very slightly before I expected it to, but with a quarter of a million miles on, it's possible the camshaft's a bit worn. It blows a bit of blue smoke, and could do with a light overhaul, so I might stick a PH3 in there at the same time, just to eak it out a bit more at the top end.
Overall, pretty happy with that as you can imagine! I'm a bit of a dyno graph geek, and record and monitor the outputs of most of my cars to give them an average over the years (helps with spotting if things are going pear-shaped) and this graph's one I'm going to enjoy looking at for years to come.
Old French cars. Apparently, they're unreliable and they fall apart. Apart from the ones kicking out a touch more than book figures having covered nearly a quarter of a million miles, that is.
Anyway, back to the Bristol car
So, I took it to vote as previously mentioned (and forgot I took a pic of the momentous occasion!):And, following the end of the British summer (06/05/16 - 10/05/16) this morning the car informed me it has a small leak:
Will check out the sunroof drainage tubes. It needed a wash in there anyway!
But the bit you're all on tenderhooks about, is obviously the dyno run! So, will an original, 245,000 mile carb-fed 1.4 economy Citroen be able to match its book figure? Ultimate Car Specs list the output as:
Ultimate Car Specs said:
Maximum power - Output - Horsepower : 85 PS or 84 bhp or 63 kW @ 6400 rpm
Maximum torque : 115 Nm or 84 lb.ft @ 4000 rpm
The result?:Maximum torque : 115 Nm or 84 lb.ft @ 4000 rpm
Or, in DIN (PS):
Ignore 'Engine Power (measured)', it's 'Wheel Power (measured)', 'Engine Power and Torque (corrected)' that are relevant. They're both the same runs, just been calculated using SAE (BHP to most people, and officially the unit of measure today) and DIN (also know as PS, or metric BHP - it's what most manufacturers in the 80's and 90's used as book figures).
Now granted, you can't say a figure achieved on a rolling road dyno can be used as factually 100% accurate, but in my experience this one is pretty bloody close! It's also a bit of a ball-buster too (the Ford S-Max 2.5T and Alfa 159 JTD that also went on that day both fell short) and it's been brutally honest over the years.
So the results officially, if you take 84bhp & 84lbft SAE as the book figures, was 86bhp & 92lbft! The graph starts to tail off very slightly before I expected it to, but with a quarter of a million miles on, it's possible the camshaft's a bit worn. It blows a bit of blue smoke, and could do with a light overhaul, so I might stick a PH3 in there at the same time, just to eak it out a bit more at the top end.
Overall, pretty happy with that as you can imagine! I'm a bit of a dyno graph geek, and record and monitor the outputs of most of my cars to give them an average over the years (helps with spotting if things are going pear-shaped) and this graph's one I'm going to enjoy looking at for years to come.
Old French cars. Apparently, they're unreliable and they fall apart. Apart from the ones kicking out a touch more than book figures having covered nearly a quarter of a million miles, that is.
Usage update:
Since getting the GT back on the road, my daily runner Saab has pretty much just sat still! There are still many, many things wrong with the AX (can't get into the boot, dashboard is loose, it leaks, speakers are blown, can't adjust the drivers seat (mech jammed), half the dashboard bulbs are blown, wheel alignment is all wrong, front suspension wishbones bushes are absolutely ruined, etc....) but there are so many that are right. It rides well, it's good on fuel, it's quite comfy, it's small and easy to nip through gaps, it's fun.....it's doing a great job, and has covered about 300 miles since I got it on the road. I mean, there is the MOTHERSHIP load of blue smoke kicked out with each early morning startup, but then I guess after 26 years and 245,000 miles, the valve stem seals probably don't have any rubber in them any more! I'm loving my new Dunlop tyres too - they're almost silent, and seem to have excellent grip come rain or shine,
Progress update:
Well, had another of those days the other day. As previously noted, the AX tends to fill up with water when it rains. The sunroof was stuck on (it's a pop-up type, but it's also removable - there's supposed to be a little bag in the boot that it goes in!) I managed to remove it and check out the drains:
The sunroof on an AX isn't designed to be water-tight. It's actually supposed to allow water in past the glass and into the tray below, where it's disposed of via these drainage tubes. These tubes can block up, meaning the rainwater level rises higher than the inner tray and into le car. Though they looked pretty dirty up top, all but one of them seemed to drain ok, which to be honest I wasn't expecting, though a quick shot of air was enough to get all four draining, and draining more quickly. Was a bit gutted to see some rust in the tray, but it's only surface and easily sorted.
So, job done, naturally the next thing to do was tobutton it up and stop spending so much time on an old French hatchback remove the entire headlining:
No, honestly, it was pretty grubby:
It'd clean up, but then I had another better one in my breaker. Ah yes, the breaker. The car I tried advertising, and had no interest in, so began splitting for spares, only to now be contacted by folk who want to restore it! I'd love someone to restore it, and have offered it away at silly money for the remains, so all the gear removed from this AX will probably be spruced up and reused.
So headlining gone:
Drainage tray cleaned up:
Replacement headlining fitted:
Rusted areas of drainage tray treated with POR15 (to halt the rust, will find something more permanent later):
Sunroof mechanism stripped, cleaned, greased and reassembled:
Sunroof refitted! Glides up and down now, doesn't appear to leak (which means the leak will probably be coming from elsewhere next time it rains!) and unclips/clips on easily:
So at the point I should have gone home, I decided to whip the seats out as the fronts were pretty grubby, and the mechanisms needed repair:
I'd already swapped the rears over, and though I could clean the fronts, they'd done 250k miles, and seats make a big difference to the feel of a car, so time being as tight as it was, I decided to just swap them. I'm doing my best not to lose the character of the car, but I do want to improve it too.
Once the seats were out, I got a chance to finish cleaning the carpet. Dog hairs in cars is one of my pet hates (you can keep that). I was going to change the carpets over, but when word got through the other GT has a potentially brighter future (they might set fire to it) I decided to clean and make do with what I had. Before:
After:
So by the end of the shift, I'd ended up with an interior that looked largely the same, and a sunroof that may or may not leak (but does go up and down smoothly, and comes off easily). And some seats that were slightly less high mileage.
Felt much better for it though!
Since getting the GT back on the road, my daily runner Saab has pretty much just sat still! There are still many, many things wrong with the AX (can't get into the boot, dashboard is loose, it leaks, speakers are blown, can't adjust the drivers seat (mech jammed), half the dashboard bulbs are blown, wheel alignment is all wrong, front suspension wishbones bushes are absolutely ruined, etc....) but there are so many that are right. It rides well, it's good on fuel, it's quite comfy, it's small and easy to nip through gaps, it's fun.....it's doing a great job, and has covered about 300 miles since I got it on the road. I mean, there is the MOTHERSHIP load of blue smoke kicked out with each early morning startup, but then I guess after 26 years and 245,000 miles, the valve stem seals probably don't have any rubber in them any more! I'm loving my new Dunlop tyres too - they're almost silent, and seem to have excellent grip come rain or shine,
Progress update:
Well, had another of those days the other day. As previously noted, the AX tends to fill up with water when it rains. The sunroof was stuck on (it's a pop-up type, but it's also removable - there's supposed to be a little bag in the boot that it goes in!) I managed to remove it and check out the drains:
The sunroof on an AX isn't designed to be water-tight. It's actually supposed to allow water in past the glass and into the tray below, where it's disposed of via these drainage tubes. These tubes can block up, meaning the rainwater level rises higher than the inner tray and into le car. Though they looked pretty dirty up top, all but one of them seemed to drain ok, which to be honest I wasn't expecting, though a quick shot of air was enough to get all four draining, and draining more quickly. Was a bit gutted to see some rust in the tray, but it's only surface and easily sorted.
So, job done, naturally the next thing to do was to
No, honestly, it was pretty grubby:
It'd clean up, but then I had another better one in my breaker. Ah yes, the breaker. The car I tried advertising, and had no interest in, so began splitting for spares, only to now be contacted by folk who want to restore it! I'd love someone to restore it, and have offered it away at silly money for the remains, so all the gear removed from this AX will probably be spruced up and reused.
So headlining gone:
Drainage tray cleaned up:
Replacement headlining fitted:
Rusted areas of drainage tray treated with POR15 (to halt the rust, will find something more permanent later):
Sunroof mechanism stripped, cleaned, greased and reassembled:
Sunroof refitted! Glides up and down now, doesn't appear to leak (which means the leak will probably be coming from elsewhere next time it rains!) and unclips/clips on easily:
So at the point I should have gone home, I decided to whip the seats out as the fronts were pretty grubby, and the mechanisms needed repair:
I'd already swapped the rears over, and though I could clean the fronts, they'd done 250k miles, and seats make a big difference to the feel of a car, so time being as tight as it was, I decided to just swap them. I'm doing my best not to lose the character of the car, but I do want to improve it too.
Once the seats were out, I got a chance to finish cleaning the carpet. Dog hairs in cars is one of my pet hates (you can keep that). I was going to change the carpets over, but when word got through the other GT has a potentially brighter future (they might set fire to it) I decided to clean and make do with what I had. Before:
After:
So by the end of the shift, I'd ended up with an interior that looked largely the same, and a sunroof that may or may not leak (but does go up and down smoothly, and comes off easily). And some seats that were slightly less high mileage.
Felt much better for it though!
itcaptainslow said:
I admire your commitment to it! Think I would have chucked in the towel long ago and I'm a serial car tinkerer. Loving reading this.
To be fair, it didn't need too much for the MoT. I've just gone above and beyond on each aspect of the car I've repaired, which means hopefully one day I'll have gone through the entire car and it'll be one of the best AX GTs you could hope to drive!....if you hoped to drive one!
FlatTwin said:
Drove one in the past. Didn't kwow they had been sold in the UK.
One of the funniest little car I ever driven.
Not really fast, but very light and good feeling.
But there also were the AX sport, with the 2 carburettors 1294cc from the Peugeot 205 rallye, which was even better!
Yeah the GT was available here from 1987 (just) through to 1992. Not that fast, no, but they feel much quicker than they are. That said, out of sharp bends in second gear there's nothing else I own that could better it from 20mph to around 40/50mph.One of the funniest little car I ever driven.
Not really fast, but very light and good feeling.
But there also were the AX sport, with the 2 carburettors 1294cc from the Peugeot 205 rallye, which was even better!
We didn't get the Sport over here. Shame, that'd be a right laff!
Not much to report on the GT at the moment. It's done about 300 miles since I put it on the road, all mainly local stuff. Haven't ventured far as the front wishbone bushes are now well and truly shot! Have Powerflex sat here waiting to be fitted to a pair of new arms, and have just ordered a lower strutbrace to go on at the same time. Just feels like if I'm taking some of the compliance out of the bushes, I could do with beefing it up a bit more. It can only handle as well as it did before, or better, and that's fine by me!
Also managed to find a full lock set, which is a pretty rare feat. these days. So it's suspension bushes/arms/strut brace, lower engine mount, cambelt, service (still haven't done one), valve clearances, gear linkage, clutch cable and remove dashboard to repair the broken mounting brackets, all by the end of the month. Once that lot's done, it'll be pretty well sorted mechanically to a point I'd be happy to drive anywhere in it.
Next year I'll think about rear axle bearings (bit of an angle on the rear wheels at the mo) and the blue smoke that PISSES out of the exhaust. I'm guessing the valve stem seals are in bits in the bottom of the sump!
Mixed fortunes with the AX GT in the last few days. Since I got it, the suspension's been a bit knocky on the front. It's pretty standard fare for an AX, but I'm determined to get it as good as an AX GT can be. Obviously I'd gone to town on the dampers etc already, but I knew the suspension bushes needed work. The front anti-roll bar is clamps using the usual D-bush on the inner mounts, but rather than having droplinks on the ends, it has another set of clamps and identical D-bushes clamping the end of the roll bar to the wishbones. One of these bushes in particular was totally knackered. So it was time to Powerflex its ass!
Pair of brand new wishbones, the one on the right I've already converted:
To remove the wishbones on an AX/106/Saxo, which you'll need to do (if you plan to run one for more than 34 days), you need to pull back the footwell carpet, thus:
(The sealed window had been broken, meaning this 245,000 mile car is NOT on the original wishbones. I know, shocker!)
Wishbone can now be removed:
As far as handling goes, it wasn't helping:
New wishbones fitted, all clamps cleaned up and front end now 100% Powerflexed (on the suspension, not the engine mounts - I like having teeth):
What with the new wishbone bushes, I decided to go one step further and bought a lower strut brace. I haven't done that since my last AX GT, some 9 years ago! Had the idea after seeing matey's legendary Nurburgring sub-10 min BTG lap in the 450,000 mile white diesel AX. One of the few mods he did - lower strut brace, due to the mileage of the shell. "Sounds proper" I thought. Bought it, fitted it, drove it, thought about it. In reality, I'm just £60 lighter. It's not going to make much difference, is it? The shell is more rust-free than what I would guess is 90% of AXs on the road, and the suspension is standard - high and springy, meaning less strain on the shell. Ah well, it looks cool:
So, did all the bushing work yield smiley faces? Yes, it did. It transformed the car......for 5 mins.
Literally, I drove out of the yard, went over some bumps and was amazed at how tight and quiet it felt. It was EXACTLY what I wanted to happen. I went back to the unit, locked up and drove home. On the way home.....suspension knocks, similar to before. FML, and all that.
Got it up onto ramp today, just before I came home. Had the lever bar in every suspension component, and it's all still tight as a drum! The knocks and rattles must be other worn-out items. It's high miles, but luckily there isn't much to an AX, and there's a good chance I can find it all. Taking it on its first long trip next weekend to a Citroen meet in Huntingdon, so was hoping to have it all tickety-boo before going, but it'll be what it'll be.
The real bummer is that after all these efforts, there's a chance now that I'll need to move the AX on. As some will have spotted, I'm slowly taking over the entire readers cars section, having now also just purchased a Hillman Imp. In a straight fight, the Imp would be the keeper of the two, as there is more history with that particular car for me. I also have a Saxo in the fleet, so I don't really need the AX as much as I 'need' the Hillman.
We'll see. The fact I can use the AX daily does help, but the funds tied up in it may be needed back. A white GT sold on eBay the other day, as a project (rust everywhere, been off the road for ages) for £1600! I know mine's intergalactic, but the shell is really good and that's about the most important thing on an AX these days. And this is a pretty good GT already, knocky suspension aside
Hopefully I can hang on to it though, and see it through the mechanical restoration at least. It may never get resprayed in my tenure now.
Pair of brand new wishbones, the one on the right I've already converted:
To remove the wishbones on an AX/106/Saxo, which you'll need to do (if you plan to run one for more than 34 days), you need to pull back the footwell carpet, thus:
(The sealed window had been broken, meaning this 245,000 mile car is NOT on the original wishbones. I know, shocker!)
Wishbone can now be removed:
As far as handling goes, it wasn't helping:
New wishbones fitted, all clamps cleaned up and front end now 100% Powerflexed (on the suspension, not the engine mounts - I like having teeth):
What with the new wishbone bushes, I decided to go one step further and bought a lower strut brace. I haven't done that since my last AX GT, some 9 years ago! Had the idea after seeing matey's legendary Nurburgring sub-10 min BTG lap in the 450,000 mile white diesel AX. One of the few mods he did - lower strut brace, due to the mileage of the shell. "Sounds proper" I thought. Bought it, fitted it, drove it, thought about it. In reality, I'm just £60 lighter. It's not going to make much difference, is it? The shell is more rust-free than what I would guess is 90% of AXs on the road, and the suspension is standard - high and springy, meaning less strain on the shell. Ah well, it looks cool:
So, did all the bushing work yield smiley faces? Yes, it did. It transformed the car......for 5 mins.
Literally, I drove out of the yard, went over some bumps and was amazed at how tight and quiet it felt. It was EXACTLY what I wanted to happen. I went back to the unit, locked up and drove home. On the way home.....suspension knocks, similar to before. FML, and all that.
Got it up onto ramp today, just before I came home. Had the lever bar in every suspension component, and it's all still tight as a drum! The knocks and rattles must be other worn-out items. It's high miles, but luckily there isn't much to an AX, and there's a good chance I can find it all. Taking it on its first long trip next weekend to a Citroen meet in Huntingdon, so was hoping to have it all tickety-boo before going, but it'll be what it'll be.
The real bummer is that after all these efforts, there's a chance now that I'll need to move the AX on. As some will have spotted, I'm slowly taking over the entire readers cars section, having now also just purchased a Hillman Imp. In a straight fight, the Imp would be the keeper of the two, as there is more history with that particular car for me. I also have a Saxo in the fleet, so I don't really need the AX as much as I 'need' the Hillman.
We'll see. The fact I can use the AX daily does help, but the funds tied up in it may be needed back. A white GT sold on eBay the other day, as a project (rust everywhere, been off the road for ages) for £1600! I know mine's intergalactic, but the shell is really good and that's about the most important thing on an AX these days. And this is a pretty good GT already, knocky suspension aside
Hopefully I can hang on to it though, and see it through the mechanical restoration at least. It may never get resprayed in my tenure now.
We have a sheep on the tailgate again! Why? Because the guys from France who gave the car to my randomly stopped by to say hello today! Really nice people! They were visiting in the UK, and luckily I'd taken the car into work with me, so they got to see it looking slightly better than it did before, but not much! I met the dogs who left their hair all over the carpet, and heard some real stories of the cars' past (it's led a more interesting life than me!)
So why a sheep? Because the old tailgate featured a Donkey and a Sheep, and the tailgate was changed ages ago now for one in better condition (but not much). Turns out the sheep is a locality thing from the area in France the car was from (like those Kernow stickers from Cornwall....or something). They had some spare sheep stickers, so the AX now has a sheep sticker!
I'll do a better update soon, but I've been pretty busy on the AX the past couple of days, and In about 8 hours I'll be setting off for High Wycombe, then the biggest Citroen gathering in the UK up near Huntingdon, and then back to Fareham again via London (Crystal Palace area). Nearly 400 mile round trip. Will it make it? I'll find out tomorrow!
So why a sheep? Because the old tailgate featured a Donkey and a Sheep, and the tailgate was changed ages ago now for one in better condition (but not much). Turns out the sheep is a locality thing from the area in France the car was from (like those Kernow stickers from Cornwall....or something). They had some spare sheep stickers, so the AX now has a sheep sticker!
I'll do a better update soon, but I've been pretty busy on the AX the past couple of days, and In about 8 hours I'll be setting off for High Wycombe, then the biggest Citroen gathering in the UK up near Huntingdon, and then back to Fareham again via London (Crystal Palace area). Nearly 400 mile round trip. Will it make it? I'll find out tomorrow!
Mr Scruff said:
Really enjoyable read - writing style definitely to my taste! Will keep an eye out for it in High Wycombe today!
Thanks! Did you spot the AX in High Wycombe on Saturday? Here's a picture taken from the AX of an old lady, in High Wycombe:
I'll update the rest later in the week. The AX had a successful weekend, covered around 390miles and (so far) is worked out at an average of 48.5mpg! 340 miles, 31.87litres used. I'll wait til I have to top it up again as I reckon there's a discrepancy there, and it was more like 40mpg. Still good though
No breakdowns, no dramas, good times.
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