2016 Ford Mustang 5.0 GT. Captain Slow's Pony car adventure

[Matt Harper]

Pommygranite said:

You say that but I just went out in a V8 with a CAI, Custom Tune and a Cat Back and it's putting out 536bhp - holeee jeezus Christ it was quick!

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in quite some time.

I should preface this by stating that I like Mustangs (loved mine) and modified mine quite a lot because I enjoyed bracket racing it. Because I was after ANY hp gain and staying within NHRA regs I installed an Airaid CAI and a larger throttle body and BAMA's most radical flashtune and a headers-back 2" exhaust with muffler delete.
Long tube headers would have given more, but are an absolute bh to install for someone with my capability and facilities.

My car came out of Flat Rock with FoMoCo claimed 420 off the crank. Baseline dyno was something in the order of 385-390whp, adding all of the above produced a gain of 20ish whp.



Aftermarket performance product manufacturers all overstate the gains and utilize unrealistic test conditions/comparisons.

What made my Mustang competitive was poly bushing rear links and M/T drag radial tires. There is no way to get the 500+hp out of a Coyote without forced induction and/or major (heads-off) valve and cam mods - very, very expensive with that DOHC motor.

[Pommygranite]

Matt Harper said:

Pommygranite said:

You say that but I just went out in a V8 with a CAI, Custom Tune and a Cat Back and it's putting out 536bhp - holeee jeezus Christ it was quick!

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in quite some time.

I should preface this by stating that I like Mustangs (loved mine) and modified mine quite a lot because I enjoyed bracket racing it. Because I was after ANY hp gain and staying within NHRA regs I installed an Airaid CAI and a larger throttle body and BAMA's most radical flashtune and a headers-back 2" exhaust with muffler delete.
Long tube headers would have given more, but are an absolute bh to install for someone with my capability and facilities.

My car came out of Flat Rock with FoMoCo claimed 420 off the crank. Baseline dyno was something in the order of 385-390whp, adding all of the above produced a gain of 20ish whp.



Aftermarket performance product manufacturers all overstate the gains and utilize unrealistic test conditions/comparisons.

What made my Mustang competitive was poly bushing rear links and M/T drag radial tires. There is no way to get the 500+hp out of a Coyote without forced induction and/or major (heads-off) valve and cam mods - very, very expensive with that DOHC motor.

Apologies it was 480bhp. Something got lost in the KW to BHP translation.

And it was the 350 kit here:
http://www.bptmotorsport.com.au/home/bpt/mustang_p...

This guys my neighbour and this is parked outside his house and the one I went in.

My point stands - it was fking quick

Edited by Pommygranite on Tuesday 4th October 22:26

[Matt Harper]

Pommygranite said:

Apologies it was 480bhp. Something got lost in the KW to BHP translation.

And it was the 350 kit here:
http://www.bptmotorsport.com.au/home/bpt/mustang_p...

This guys my neighbour and this is parked outside his house and the one I went in.

My point stands - it was fking quick

Edited by Pommygranite on Tuesday 4th October 22:26

No need to apologize - but it's actually less than 470 based on the claims of that website. That is still a preposterous claim from a factory RHD output of 415.
As stated earlier - any gain is worth something but suddenly finding a hidden 55hp from a plastic pipe with a cone filter, half an exhaust and a SCT flash tune is optimistic to say the very least.

The most hp beneficial mod you can do for this motor without getting into forced induction is to replace the intake with a 2014 Boss 302 hi-rise and 85mm throttle body and a pair of long-tube headers. This will give a significant, measurable hp gain (at a cost of a slight torque loss, which is why I chose not to go this route) - but still nothing like the fantasy figures BPT Motorsport are claiming.

[Pommygranite]

Matt Harper said:

Pommygranite said:

Apologies it was 480bhp. Something got lost in the KW to BHP translation.

And it was the 350 kit here:
http://www.bptmotorsport.com.au/home/bpt/mustang_p...

This guys my neighbour and this is parked outside his house and the one I went in.

My point stands - it was fking quick

Edited by Pommygranite on Tuesday 4th October 22:26

No need to apologize - but it's actually less than 470 based on the claims of that website. That is still a preposterous claim from a factory RHD output of 415.
As stated earlier - any gain is worth something but suddenly finding a hidden 55hp from a plastic pipe with a cone filter, half an exhaust and a SCT flash tune is optimistic to say the very least.

The most hp beneficial mod you can do for this motor without getting into forced induction is to replace the intake with a 2014 Boss 302 hi-rise and 85mm throttle body and a pair of long-tube headers. This will give a significant, measurable hp gain (at a cost of a slight torque loss, which is why I chose not to go this route) - but still nothing like the fantasy figures BPT Motorsport are claiming.

Calm down a little as you're keyboard warrioring.

It's a very reputable company, it's been dyno'd and I've seen the dyno taking place, it took 3 weeks of custom mapping and certainly having been in both I have no reason to doubt.

It's also ADR compliant and is a package sold through some Ford dealerships.

Whilst stronghold words such as fantasy and preposterous are easy to use perhaps just because you personally don't agree based on your understanding doesn't make it true.

We might be able to also resettle this next year when mine turns up and I have it done

Go to Facebook>BPT Motorsport - check out the endless videos and details.

[Matt Harper]

Pommygranite said:

Calm down a little as you're keyboard warrioring.

Unfortunately I have no idea what that means. I am quite calm though, so don't fret about that.

Can you imagine if Ford could just magic 50-60hp by swapping out the air cleaner and the back half of the exhaust and optimize the ECU tuning capabilities, so they could close the gap in the horsepower war with current LS1 and Mopar 392 factory outputs - but thought - "nah, we'll just stick with a motor that is 50+hp behind our main competition."

[Matt Harper]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

I really, really dont want to turn this into an argument thread, so please respect that and dont do it Matt.... however its not outrageous to say that a CAT-back, PMAS intake and aggressive tune can realise 40+bhp in these engines. Thats backed up by countless RR sessions, and 1/4 mile ET and terminal speed readings.

Headers on a RHD car will also release a good 30bhp due to the sub-optimal OE design.


I quite understand this might have you guffawing and shaking your head, but I can live with that. Im sure many of us would be happy to discuss/argue the relative merits and expected outputs of such systems in a dedicated thread, should you wish to start one.

Edited by kapiteinlangzaam on Wednesday 5th October 06:17

Yes - sure. I apologize if I've sidetracked it.
One final question - genuine curiosity - what impact (if any) does that 90 degree bend in the inlet tract have on airflow? I wonder if it's a design feature or a necessary measure to make it fit in the space available. Does the airbox seal to the underside of the hood?

[5ohmustang]

Matt Harper said:

Pommygranite said:

Calm down a little as you're keyboard warrioring.

Unfortunately I have no idea what that means. I am quite calm though, so don't fret about that.

Can you imagine if Ford could just magic 50-60hp by swapping out the air cleaner and the back half of the exhaust and optimize the ECU tuning capabilities, so they could close the gap in the horsepower war with current LS1 and Mopar 392 factory outputs - but thought - "nah, we'll just stick with a motor that is 50+hp behind our main competition."

Ford is all about cutting costs, why would they when a stock 5.0 will walk a Mopar 392. True you have around 60hp more stock, you also have 500lbs of weight more than an s197 too. I think it's safe to say the general consensus of a banana tune and cai is 25_30whp alone. Also bear in mind 2011-2012 s197 were 412bhp at the crank and not 420bhp in 2013.

[Matt Harper]

5ohmustang said:

Ford is all about cutting costs, why would they when a stock 5.0 will walk a Mopar 392.

Whatevs, Rambo.

[5ohmustang]

Matt Harper said:

Whatevs, Rambo.

No worries Slowpar

[Pommygranite]

Tickford pumping out 351kw from pretty much a custom tune and an exhaust, not forced induction - this might provide further information.

http://carsales.mobi/editorial/details/ED-ITM-1041...

[5ohmustang]

What is that in bhp?

[Pommygranite]

5ohmustang said:

What is that in bhp?

About 470 I think

[5ohmustang]

What is wrong with the brakes, squealing?

4 or 6 pots?

My brembos used to squeal a fair bit. I cleaned the discs, pads, added grease to the non contact side of the pads and it stopped.

[5ohmustang]

Does it effect the intake sound?

Did you have to blank the sound tube?

[oldcynic]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that Ford turned me down on rectifying the poor underseal, I havent yet decided if Ive got the will to pursue it, or if ill just let it be.

Thanks to this thread I tipped off a work colleague who picked up his Mustang in the summer. Ford initially refused to rectify their shoddy workmanship but U-turned last month and his car was properly undersealed earlier this month.

I know he had to be beyond persistent and managed to get hold of the email address for someone very high in the company. He also didn't get anything in writing from Ford accepting liability.

[Pommygranite]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Righto. This PMAS CAI is a beast. I bloody love it. Added bonus is that it makes the exhaust deeper too!

Another member from PH (and the 6G forums) Gibbo 205 has had his car on the rollers today. PMAS CAI + Lund tune.



Made +55bhp and 60 lb/ft over stock (his car previously RRd @ 415bhp I believe, which matches the RHD Ford figures)

The Lund tune is advertised as +35-40bhp, so the difference (+15-20bhp) is coming from the PMAS, which ties in nicely with all the RR testing from the US.

Ive ordered my Lund tune - but itll be a few weeks before its on the car.

+55bhp on an EU car (with the better manifolds) and in conjunction with my cat-back should put me squarely in the 470-480bhp region.

Fabulous :-)

Careful Capt. - someone will be along in a moment to tell you a tune, CAI and an exhaust pumping out 480bhp is fantasy...

The one I was in not long ago had this and and the momentous surge on moving into 3rd was, well, momentous.

I think a sub 4.5 to 60 is feasible and a sub 13secs 1/4 mile about right. Given a new R8 runs a 12.5 qtr mile it's not bad is it

[Shadow R1]

Good numbers.
Would be interesting if we could see what the a\f is doing.

[FWDRacer]

I really want one of these cars ... and this thread isn't doing me any favours!

[Matt Harper]

Pommygranite said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Righto. This PMAS CAI is a beast. I bloody love it. Added bonus is that it makes the exhaust deeper too!

Another member from PH (and the 6G forums) Gibbo 205 has had his car on the rollers today. PMAS CAI + Lund tune.



Made +55bhp and 60 lb/ft over stock (his car previously RRd @ 415bhp I believe, which matches the RHD Ford figures)

The Lund tune is advertised as +35-40bhp, so the difference (+15-20bhp) is coming from the PMAS, which ties in nicely with all the RR testing from the US.

Ive ordered my Lund tune - but itll be a few weeks before its on the car.

+55bhp on an EU car (with the better manifolds) and in conjunction with my cat-back should put me squarely in the 470-480bhp region.

Fabulous :-)

Careful Capt. - someone will be along in a moment to tell you a tune, CAI and an exhaust pumping out 480bhp is fantasy...

The one I was in not long ago had this and and the momentous surge on moving into 3rd was, well, momentous.

I think a sub 4.5 to 60 is feasible and a sub 13secs 1/4 mile about right. Given a new R8 runs a 12.5 qtr mile it's not bad is it

Hmmm, I think that's a bit rich, coming from you, when, in this very thread you embellished a horsepower claim by more than 66hp.

I think it is also prudent to judge horsepower gain when measured on a chassis dyno in terms of wheel horsepower, vs estimated engine horsepower. Needless to say, there appears to be no WHP baseline on that dyno sheet and the run-down number (in green), which theoretically represents parasitic powertrain loss, is very big (i.e. over 112hp).

So, unless that car is losing 112hp between the crank and the back wheels (which would indicate a big problem somewhere in the drivetrain), the estimated engine horsepower is perhaps somewhat inflated.

A true measure of gain, would be a baseline WHP measurement prior to installation of the intake and the ECU flash, followed by a post-mod test, which would remove all the guesstimation of the motor hp output, which is arguably irrelevant anyway - what you put on the pavement is what makes the car better or not.

That said, I'm not a powertrain engineer, nor a dyno operator - this is purely how the figures have been explained to me during the numerous dyno tests I've had done on my cars - WHP + Run-Down (drag) = estimated motor HP.
If I have that wrong, them I'm happy to be schooled.

[Matt Harper]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

The same car had been RRd on the same rolling road previously (std) and made 415bhp.

Std 415 WHP? - no - that's what Ford state RHD motor HP to be.
Baseline would be WHP prior to mods, which from 415 and a manual trans should reasonably be around 345-350WHP - or a 60hp parasitic loss.

That said, 360hp on the ground, as demonstrated by that dyno sheet, is not an insignificant number by any means - and I've always believed that any gain is a good thing.

I installed a Hellcat air-catcher (the thro' headlight job) on my Challenger and it added a marginal (3+) at the wheels. I'm about to buy an aFePower "Momentum GT Pro5R" cold air system (that utilizes the same cold air source) that claims to add 16hp - and costs the thick end of $500, but if it gives me 8 it's still worth it, if it keeps me under 12 sec quarters. In summary I'm not anti - I just think that most of the claims are just that - claims.

Still, I'm intrigued by yours - does it seal to the hood? Where is it pulling the air from - the wheel well? Did it come with a plug to blank off the hole in the firewall, after you've torn out the ultra-stty sound tube?