The Free-Esta1.25
Discussion
cg360 said:
Good man!
I had two 1.25 Fiestas of this vintage - they were a really sweet drive. Lovey little things with great turn-in.
C
It's great, and the Puma engine must be very light because the turn-in if anything feels much improved, although that could have something to do with the Puma wheels and Hankook tyres. The power steering has robbed a little bit of steering feel but it's a great driveI had two 1.25 Fiestas of this vintage - they were a really sweet drive. Lovey little things with great turn-in.
C
New discs and pads today as the old discs had a bit of a warp. Made for much entertainment braking from above around 50mph 
Next plan is to start looking at suspension. It has the Puma bits on the front as that was easy to do with the engine swap, and much more sensible than leaving the Fiesta stuff on there. The lower arm bushes are just beginning to perish though so will need changing soon and the rear isn't well controlled enough for my tastes. I'm thinking adjustable top mounts, lower springs and uprated shocks all round. Any recommendations?
Next plan is to start looking at suspension. It has the Puma bits on the front as that was easy to do with the engine swap, and much more sensible than leaving the Fiesta stuff on there. The lower arm bushes are just beginning to perish though so will need changing soon and the rear isn't well controlled enough for my tastes. I'm thinking adjustable top mounts, lower springs and uprated shocks all round. Any recommendations?
what direction are you wanting to take the car? Assuming fast road with the odd trackday?
If so lower arms wise i'd go for genuine ford items (hopefully your ones havent been replaced with pattern jobs) fitted with Ford Racing Puma (solid rubber) rear bushes and Powerflex front bushes, rear beam go for Powerflex rears, the purples are compliant enough whilst keeping the axle firmly in line.
Bilstein B6 fixed rate dampers and Eibach springs work really well on the road, there isn't much about in the way adjustable top mounts so I'd just replace the old ones with good quality standards. changing the front anti roll bar bushes for Powerflex items is well worth it as well.
Brakes wise I'd keep it stock as the set up you have should be more than good enough, but go for Ferodo DS Performance pads, I've found these to be fantastic on both road and track and i run the stock set up you had originally but with the Ferodos and grooved discs. Go for braided lines all round too and your sorted.
I'd say go for an OMP wishbone brace also but don't think these fit with the 1.7 in. A uprated torque link is well worth it, either Vibratechnics or the original with Floflex bushes.
If so lower arms wise i'd go for genuine ford items (hopefully your ones havent been replaced with pattern jobs) fitted with Ford Racing Puma (solid rubber) rear bushes and Powerflex front bushes, rear beam go for Powerflex rears, the purples are compliant enough whilst keeping the axle firmly in line.
Bilstein B6 fixed rate dampers and Eibach springs work really well on the road, there isn't much about in the way adjustable top mounts so I'd just replace the old ones with good quality standards. changing the front anti roll bar bushes for Powerflex items is well worth it as well.
Brakes wise I'd keep it stock as the set up you have should be more than good enough, but go for Ferodo DS Performance pads, I've found these to be fantastic on both road and track and i run the stock set up you had originally but with the Ferodos and grooved discs. Go for braided lines all round too and your sorted.
I'd say go for an OMP wishbone brace also but don't think these fit with the 1.7 in. A uprated torque link is well worth it, either Vibratechnics or the original with Floflex bushes.
Keeping standard brakes is just awful advice, they're too small for the car. ST150 brakes with some decent pads will be a nice upgrade.
Hard to go wrong with a set of GAZ coilovers too. Do some polybushing, gearbox mount was a fun one, solid engine mounts are supposed to be pretty good but I never got that far. Lower strut brace is worth doing since it's cheap as well. There's pretty much no such thing as adjustable top mounts. Adjustable lower arms that add more camber are expensive, you can DIY ones that remove camber though if you want.
Hard to go wrong with a set of GAZ coilovers too. Do some polybushing, gearbox mount was a fun one, solid engine mounts are supposed to be pretty good but I never got that far. Lower strut brace is worth doing since it's cheap as well. There's pretty much no such thing as adjustable top mounts. Adjustable lower arms that add more camber are expensive, you can DIY ones that remove camber though if you want.
Digitalize said:
Keeping standard brakes is just awful advice, they're too small for the car. ST150 brakes with some decent pads will be a nice upgrade.
Hard to go wrong with a set of GAZ coilovers too. Do some polybushing, gearbox mount was a fun one, solid engine mounts are supposed to be pretty good but I never got that far. Lower strut brace is worth doing since it's cheap as well. There's pretty much no such thing as adjustable top mounts. Adjustable lower arms that add more camber are expensive, you can DIY ones that remove camber though if you want.
Solid advice!Hard to go wrong with a set of GAZ coilovers too. Do some polybushing, gearbox mount was a fun one, solid engine mounts are supposed to be pretty good but I never got that far. Lower strut brace is worth doing since it's cheap as well. There's pretty much no such thing as adjustable top mounts. Adjustable lower arms that add more camber are expensive, you can DIY ones that remove camber though if you want.
Most of the improvements and mods are economical, power is the only one which costs a lot and to be honest isn't really worth it in the long run.
For the bushes, do everything floflex EXCEPT the wishbones, use Powerflex for that as the floflex one does not have a metal casing around the large one meaning the wishbone slowly tears it apart.
I wouldn't bother with a vibratechnics gearbox mount, I know people who have them (along with the engine mounts) and they couldn't feel a difference over the floflex one. You can just fill your standard mounts with hard epoxy to stiffen up the engine mounts too, considerably cheaper.
Rear hub spacers will help with cornering stability but make it a bit less playful with lift off oversteer.
I had heard promising things about adding a Mk3 RS Turbo (I think) rear Arb to the rear beam, increasing its resistance to twist under load, but I never got round to it either.
I wouldn't bother with a vibratechnics gearbox mount, I know people who have them (along with the engine mounts) and they couldn't feel a difference over the floflex one. You can just fill your standard mounts with hard epoxy to stiffen up the engine mounts too, considerably cheaper.
Rear hub spacers will help with cornering stability but make it a bit less playful with lift off oversteer.
I had heard promising things about adding a Mk3 RS Turbo (I think) rear Arb to the rear beam, increasing its resistance to twist under load, but I never got round to it either.
geeks said:
Not sure that is true, the OP slotted in the Puma brakes so with a decent pad and disc setup should be more than up to the job.
The ZS/Puma share brakes, they weren't up to much in the 1.6 ZS, which has less power than the Puma engine. They're 260mm with a fairly poor piston design. ST150 brakes are 280mm with a much better design, they're shared with the 300mm ST170 using a different carrier, have a great selection of pads available due to they're popularity and as said if need be can easily upgraded to 300mm but they're a bit more awkward to fit under wheels.Edited by Digitalize on Tuesday 19th July 12:38
geeks said:
Digitalize said:
Keeping standard brakes is just awful advice, they're too small for the car.
Not sure that is true, the OP slotted in the Puma brakes so with a decent pad and disc setup should be more than up to the job.Great advice about suspension, thanks. I'll start there and then move on to doing something with the engine, it needs a new rocker gasket so I figure that's a good reason to change the cams for some Piper ones while I'm in there. Will also get a decat exhaust fitted with an inline sport cat, as the current one is a manifold item so that's got to go
A word of warning if you go down the new manifold + new exhaust + in-line cat route and suspension work route: there's not a lot of room under there with even a very modest amount of lowering if keeping to a smaller wheel rim (which I would recommend you do). Mine was lowered only around 35mm on a Spax kit for the Puma with 15" rims and a 45 profile tyre but the only room we could find for the cat was w-a-y back in the system, tucked up near the nearside rear wheel well. It did work and pass emissions (just!) but obviously took a very long time to get up to temperature. The flexi between the manifold and exhaust took quite a battering on sleeping policemen and replacement of it, and the nearby lambda sensor, almost became a regular service item.
I'd hold off on some of the planned go-faster bits and echo the comments from other contributors to concentrate your efforts on making it grip, turn and stop better first.
I'd hold off on some of the planned go-faster bits and echo the comments from other contributors to concentrate your efforts on making it grip, turn and stop better first.
Each to their own, but on the road I don't see any advantage of the bigger brakes, heavy use on track fair enough, but otherwise its just additional unsprung mass and more cost. Note I didn't say totally standard brakes, I'd 100% recommend braided lines, good fluid and uprated pads/discs.
Also not sure I'd go Powerflex rear wishbone bushes on a road car, not a great place for a poly bush given how they move, FRP bushes are cheaper and more compliant and also a vast improvement over stock. As for coilovers on a road car.. again each to their own!
Nobody's suggestions here are wrong, it's just there's more than one way to skin a cat, so it will be down to the OP's preference etc.
Rear axle spacers are a good shout.
Also not sure I'd go Powerflex rear wishbone bushes on a road car, not a great place for a poly bush given how they move, FRP bushes are cheaper and more compliant and also a vast improvement over stock. As for coilovers on a road car.. again each to their own!
Nobody's suggestions here are wrong, it's just there's more than one way to skin a cat, so it will be down to the OP's preference etc.
Rear axle spacers are a good shout.
JonJon2015 said:
A word of warning if you go down the new manifold + new exhaust + in-line cat route and suspension work route: there's not a lot of room under there with even a very modest amount of lowering if keeping to a smaller wheel rim (which I would recommend you do). Mine was lowered only around 35mm on a Spax kit for the Puma with 15" rims and a 45 profile tyre but the only room we could find for the cat was w-a-y back in the system, tucked up near the nearside rear wheel well. It did work and pass emissions (just!) but obviously took a very long time to get up to temperature. The flexi between the manifold and exhaust took quite a battering on sleeping policemen and replacement of it, and the nearby lambda sensor, almost became a regular service item.
I'd hold off on some of the planned go-faster bits and echo the comments from other contributors to concentrate your efforts on making it grip, turn and stop better first.
That's useful info, thanks. Mine's on 15" Puma wheels (the 'Propeller' ones) and 195/50 Hankooks, which I'm liking so far. I'll bear in mind what you've said re ground clearance though and we'll see what can be done. I really want to do something about the cat though as the close-coupled one is super restrictive. Handling will be first though. It doesn't need to come down much if at all at the front but the rear is still running Fiesta suspenders so it's just too high. Ideally I'd be happy with no drop at the front and about 20mm down at the rear with some quality shocks all round. I'll post a pic when I have one so you can see what I meanI'd hold off on some of the planned go-faster bits and echo the comments from other contributors to concentrate your efforts on making it grip, turn and stop better first.
Oh wow, 240mm brakes! I forgot it was an early Puma you swapped it out of. They are awful. I'd really not want to use them on track.
Coilovers on the road are perfectly fine as long as they're spec'd soft.
Of course there's no right way to do it, just some wrong ones.
Polybushes are very stiff for the road, but when you want to drive it they're great.
Coilovers on the road are perfectly fine as long as they're spec'd soft.
Of course there's no right way to do it, just some wrong ones.
Polybushes are very stiff for the road, but when you want to drive it they're great.
amancalledrob said:
poing said:
Nope we need something better, Free-Esta works well though.
Fiema?
Piema?
Actually they don't work either so it's anagram time, chucked Fiesta Puma into this: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=f...
Mafia Setup is actually pretty good and you could make that up from the badges
Oh my god that's almost too good for words. I'm doing itFiema?
Piema?
Actually they don't work either so it's anagram time, chucked Fiesta Puma into this: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=f...
Mafia Setup is actually pretty good and you could make that up from the badges
Digitalize said:
Oh wow, 240mm brakes! I forgot it was an early Puma you swapped it out of. They are awful. I'd really not want to use them on track.
Coilovers on the road are perfectly fine as long as they're spec'd soft.
Of course there's no right way to do it, just some wrong ones.
Polybushes are very stiff for the road, but when you want to drive it they're great.
I've finished bedding in the new discs now so I gave them a bit of stick last night and in terms of stopping power they're more than adequate - as long as the brakes are used properly (i.e. not just stamped on) they can just about break the front tyres free.Coilovers on the road are perfectly fine as long as they're spec'd soft.
Of course there's no right way to do it, just some wrong ones.
Polybushes are very stiff for the road, but when you want to drive it they're great.
For prolonged use though I imagine you'll be right due to the smaller size limiting their ability to shed heat, I expect fade would become a big problem. Kwik Fit's warranty and free replacement pad offer is on a manufacturer spec basis so if I do as suggested and get some ST170 gear on there I should still be able to take advantage of it
I think I'm going to get the car polybushed. OC Motorsport will do the whole lot for £425 which seems reasonable when I remember the pain that replacing the front lower arms and rear bushes involved
The ultimate use of the car will be trips to Sainsbury's and back, track days, occasional trips further afield that I can't do on my motorbike, and next year probably the ring.
Also: would I be mad to try and tow a bike trailer with it? I've not towed before. I'm predicting either "no, it'll be easy, you just need a tow hitch" or a barrage of the traditional PH abuse. Don't disappoint me, guys
edited for speeling
Digitalize said:
Stopping once they should be fine, but they just get so hot so quickly that they quickly become pretty scary.
I've seen Fiesta's tow before, little trailers for trips to the dump etc, motorbike should be do-able.
Suspect you're spot on re brakesI've seen Fiesta's tow before, little trailers for trips to the dump etc, motorbike should be do-able.
Re trailer - should mean I can do both car and bike round the 'ring in the same trip, and travel there more comfortably. Sweeeeet
Just keep an eye out for this, and jump on them when you find a decent looking set for a price you want to pay, then get some braided hoses too.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-FIESTA-MK6-ST-150-F...
Ideally with no pads or discs though, you just need the calipers and carriers and they'll bolt straight on. M1144 or DS2500 pads and some decent discs and you'll definitely notice a nice improvement.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-FIESTA-MK6-ST-150-F...
Ideally with no pads or discs though, you just need the calipers and carriers and they'll bolt straight on. M1144 or DS2500 pads and some decent discs and you'll definitely notice a nice improvement.
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