2003 BMW M3 - The New Daily
Discussion
robotsan said:
SebringMan said:
Indeed! It is a little nuts! I suspect the 411 may come with the ashtray (which your old one has) and the cigar lighter itself as well, which is a little nuts!
I'm not sure about BMW providing a tray for 409. I just transferred the ashtray and cigar lighter from my old part into the 409 part, as they drop straight in
.
EDIT : It looks like you are right ; it's been years since I last looked. There is a listing a tray that can fit the panel, which looks to be more practical than the ashtray itself ; This normal tray goes under part no. 51168208369.
I thought as much! So wow, they charge all that extra for the ashtray I'm not sure about BMW providing a tray for 409. I just transferred the ashtray and cigar lighter from my old part into the 409 part, as they drop straight in
.EDIT : It looks like you are right ; it's been years since I last looked. There is a listing a tray that can fit the panel, which looks to be more practical than the ashtray itself ; This normal tray goes under part no. 51168208369.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 9th March 06:36
Thanks for the help!
P.S. I've now got the M3 bug too, and am thinking of taking the plunge in Jan next year!
From research, I'm aiming to spend under £12k on one like this:
- Manual gearbox
- Under 80k miles
- Ideally only 3 or so owners
- Good/mostly BMW SH
- ideally in one of the greys, blacks, dark blues or silver.
- ideally with red leather!
I realise that's quite a niche list and will take me a while to find, but I'm in no rush.
In terms of most important/expensive things to check on a manual, how is this list? Is there anything to add?:
- subframe: either already reinforced, or a recent check carried out with proof
- vanos?: this seems to be pretty rare on later e46s. But is it something to be worried about on 2002/2003 models?
- clutch: 80k miles is definitely enough for a new clutch in these right?
- springs: prone to breaking I think?
- suspension: trailing arms, bushes, etc etc?
- cooling system: having owned 2 e46 coupes already, I know all components in the cooling system are prone to falling to bits by at least 80k. Same on the M3 I'd imagine?
- water pump - as above!?
- power steering pump - as above!?
My take may not be the same as others mind you
.robotsan said:
Alot of questions, hopefully I can answer them .
Right, I'm back!.Anyway, that's quite a spec! I'd differ in saying that I wouldn't dote on the mileage quite as much for that budget. As I've said previously I've driven a
31k, 75k, 91k, 118k and mine at 122k (now on 149k). The best one I've driven (engine and chassis) was the 91k car, followed by either the 118k or mine, then the 31k and then the 75k car. Mine now probably is very close to the 91k car, but it wasn't close when I got it.
Exterior and interior condition wise, I'd say it goes back then as follows : 91k, 75k, 31k, 122k and then the 118k car. Mine still would hold third. Bar the wings on on mine now, the condition between the top 4 isn't that big.
The 31k car is a very well respected car on a certain forum and maintained by 'specialists' who IMHO should know better. 75k car was allegedly owned by a MasterTech where it had some questionable work. 91k was a chequebook mechanic car, which had all of the big jobs done. People will argue that was a Trigger's broom car, but these cares are now 16 years old minimum. Rubbers, and bits will be old and need to be changed ideally. Admittedly, lower mileage may get you a tidier interior (not always) and possibly less rust. Anyway, the other bits
.- subframe: Reinforced through the right people (Tegiwa, ETA, Redish or Darragh; I'm sure there are others) is great, but not the end of the world. All of them will crack but via checking when servicing the car, it can be caught well in time and still be cost effective (well, £1k-1.5k) to reinforce. But any floor ideally is best reinforced, even a new one from BMW, which they did to a small degree on the later cars.
- VANOS : This effects all, high and low mileage, early or late. The valve blocks can gum up which can cause less performance and the solenoid packs can go. These if you don't mind getting your hands dirty are a simple job to do with some care and Beisan provide decent instructions on this 'Stage 1' repair. The tabs can break on the cam, but again, (I'm probably riskier here), it's something that can be checked during an Inspection (A One or a Two).
- Clutch : Last depending on who's driven it. IIRC, I think mine may well be on the original clutch at close to 150k ; Admittedly, mine has evidence of being a motorway car for the first 90k/6 years.
- Springs : Rears break now and again, but again, for a home mechanic are a very easy job to change. You almost wonder if BMW knew they'd break!
- Suspenion : If the car has the rear subgframe bushes done, great! With Poly items in, they make such a difference to the car; the factory ones have ally centres which corrode slightly and can cause debonding of the bush from the metal. Lollypops up front are long lived if genuine bits are used, RTABs can go, and again genuine or a decent poly bush can be good in this application
- Cooling system : On track they can be tested but when maintained they are OK. They are not quite as bad to bleed out as a non-M E46 due to having a decent header tank design. Viscous fans can go which can cause issues. I've not had a water pump go on my Fords or BMWs yet, but I have only ever used factory coolants in both, with them being changed when they should be changed (Ford Super Plus 10 year in the Mondeo, and G48/BMW coolant in the BMWs.
-PAS Pump ; Not had a problem. Changing the reservoir (it has a filter inside) and putting in fresh fluid can make a pleasant difference. The High pressure PAS pipe can go at the clamps, where Hack sell a braided line or I sell a tougher, albeit potentially slightly noisier hose (due to the wire braid vs. the factory textile braid), which won't go (sorry for the shameless plug, but it's handy to know at times
.SMGs get a bad rep for reliability and usage recents, but they IME aren't quite as bad with the right know-how and maintenance/understanding. I.e a semi-underperforming but OK engine and prop bits will make an SMG seem worse ; I know it did on mine.
The manuals can suffer issues as well, which with digging (or spending time on the forums) become more apparent including:
-Poor 2nd or 3rd syncros (they can be tough to use when cold and probably should be nursed when cold IMHO)
-Shifter bushing issues (cheap to fix for most of the bushes ; or better still get a short shifter like an RTD to get the most of it).
-Popping out of the reverse. This is a little more common when you search for it.
So with a manual, I'd definitely get it warmed up and ensure it's fine in all of the gears.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 9th March 19:49
This prop rebuild was beginning to hang around like a bad smell! Many people were wondering if they'd see my M3 again! That would be a yes for a number of reasons:
Firstly, I had to make a choice about the exhaust mounts. Which would I use? For me, it was like deciding between the blue pill and the red pill in Neo's shoes. Each has it's positive and negatives. Where do I start?
Hack mounts
-They will never die
-A little easier to fit
OEM mounts
-Factory item
-Less NVH
-Potentially longer exhaust life due to allowing more movement.
I did and may still drill the Hack Engineering mount bushes. But for now, I've kept them for a rainy day. With the Milltek backbox weighing 12kg less than the factory M3 item, the mounts should have an easier time. Interestingly, my mounts are weaker than the mount my friend supplied me. With that in mind, I may change the engine mount as well ; the gearbox mounts I've done.
Then it was time to ensure the exhaust would go on well. Remember those flares I talked about? No, not the jeans from Night Fever, but the exhaust flares! Arrgh, I give up! Anyway, I utilised the X8R kit to build it back up. Did I hit issues? Yes! The bolts are not long enough ; some could use more engagement. I plan to get longer bolts for the clamp closest to the wheel, but in brass over the Stainless Steel items.
With that in mind, I also utilised the new copper nuts for the exhaust mounts. Mine after 3 years were not as great as I was expecting them to be. Hack Engineering supplied Stainless serrated nuts with theirs but worried about annealing, I did not use the stainless items. At least with the Milltek exhaust, access to the bolts is much improved over the stock exhaust regarding the exhaust mounts
With that in mind, it was time to fit and admire the bling. Well, if that's your thing!
If the car's shinier underneath, it must be faster right?
With the V-brace dried off, that also went back on too!
It was then time to take one last look at the broken exhaust clamps from the factory system. You can see that most of them were past it and were ready to break at any moment.
And then, it was time to put the vehicle down and take it out on a road test.
In short, what a difference! I was worried about something not being right, but those fears were soon unfounded. Gone were the jerky shifts and in were much smoother ones. Furthermore, the vibrations have gone! It's such a lovely thing to drive! The car just talks to you more, responding that bit sharper to every input via the acceleration and the gear changes! This is what I wanted! Sure, it cost me more than I thought! But it's superb to taste that victory!
While it's a dull video, here's a very minor taster on that victory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TnJNlmHsiI
My journey is far from over however. I still have an MOT looming!
- The M3 has never spent more than a couple of weeks off road with maintenance. 2 months has broken that limit
- Sure, some setbacks slowed me down, but 2 months is taking the Mick a little!
- I wanted to drive it again!
- Since 2006, this the first time the car has had the MOT expire.
Firstly, I had to make a choice about the exhaust mounts. Which would I use? For me, it was like deciding between the blue pill and the red pill in Neo's shoes. Each has it's positive and negatives. Where do I start?
Hack mounts
-They will never die
-A little easier to fit
OEM mounts
-Factory item
-Less NVH
-Potentially longer exhaust life due to allowing more movement.
I did and may still drill the Hack Engineering mount bushes. But for now, I've kept them for a rainy day. With the Milltek backbox weighing 12kg less than the factory M3 item, the mounts should have an easier time. Interestingly, my mounts are weaker than the mount my friend supplied me. With that in mind, I may change the engine mount as well ; the gearbox mounts I've done.
Then it was time to ensure the exhaust would go on well. Remember those flares I talked about? No, not the jeans from Night Fever, but the exhaust flares! Arrgh, I give up! Anyway, I utilised the X8R kit to build it back up. Did I hit issues? Yes! The bolts are not long enough ; some could use more engagement. I plan to get longer bolts for the clamp closest to the wheel, but in brass over the Stainless Steel items.
With that in mind, I also utilised the new copper nuts for the exhaust mounts. Mine after 3 years were not as great as I was expecting them to be. Hack Engineering supplied Stainless serrated nuts with theirs but worried about annealing, I did not use the stainless items. At least with the Milltek exhaust, access to the bolts is much improved over the stock exhaust regarding the exhaust mounts
With that in mind, it was time to fit and admire the bling. Well, if that's your thing!
If the car's shinier underneath, it must be faster right?
With the V-brace dried off, that also went back on too!
It was then time to take one last look at the broken exhaust clamps from the factory system. You can see that most of them were past it and were ready to break at any moment.
And then, it was time to put the vehicle down and take it out on a road test.
In short, what a difference! I was worried about something not being right, but those fears were soon unfounded. Gone were the jerky shifts and in were much smoother ones. Furthermore, the vibrations have gone! It's such a lovely thing to drive! The car just talks to you more, responding that bit sharper to every input via the acceleration and the gear changes! This is what I wanted! Sure, it cost me more than I thought! But it's superb to taste that victory!
While it's a dull video, here's a very minor taster on that victory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TnJNlmHsiI
My journey is far from over however. I still have an MOT looming!
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 9th March 19:50
Given that the M3 isn't really a daily anymore as much as it was, this thread really should be titled the 'Savior with woes and joy!' After all, if I recall the high and low points:
-I've taken it to the Nurbringring twice without a hitch
-Done a couple of track days
-Gone on some great road trips with it. Sure, they're not quite as spectacular as some people's excursions on here, but they are something
-At one point, it seemed one significant thing thing after another just kept on going wrong with it.
-It became a daily last year where I literally had to semi-caress to get to work in a fashion, due to a faulty ABS sensor and zero time to diagnose it. Despite that, it soldiered on like a good soldier of war. I hated driving it in that state, but the car did oblige and just carry on about its business as usual, Christmas tree dash and all!
It seemed it would become a saviour yet again. It's strange ; the last car to do this for me was also not alot older back then, with it generally becoming recalcitrant with a lack of use. I am talking about my old 205 GTi.
So, where was I? Ah yes, the issues.
Basically, we had a family issue lately, with an elderly member becoming very ill and deteriorating fast. This meant almost all of our evenings were consumed with driving up to near Leeds and back most evenings during a week, straight after work. Naturally, I met up with my dad and went up with him. After spending quite a few hours caring for said member, who was not in a good way at all, we knew we had to go back home. After all, we all had work and my mum was there to take care anyway, with us all a phonecall away. Naturally, my dad offered to take his BMW E61 535d up. However, that would not be easy. In short
Day 1 of 10 : Refused to start; This was down to dirty battery connections, which oddly also affected the Merc, but I'll come back to that another time. So my Mondeo cruised up and back.
Day 2 of 10: After driving 100 miles back, this warning appear
It was something like the above. We could have removed the air suspension, but given that time was very tight for the aforementioned reasons, we got an airbag, but would need to find time later to fit it. Obviously, this left us with problems, especially as another member of family has recently suffered with a nasty thing, which I really wouldn't wish on anyone (cancer). So, we'd need to split. I could have hired a car and gone nuts but again, this implementation would require time.
So I decided the next morning to see if I could disable the compressor on the E61. Unfortunately, the drain valve on the compressor was working, so from one side lowering, both did:
Upon starting the car up with the fuse back in the compressor, the car raised again until a loud hiss was heard from the nearside as the car got to a certain height. Yup, it had blown an airbag. With this in mind, I tossed my dad my Mondeo keys, saying that it was his. Since I had sold the Merc, this left me without a car, for work and for family issues, should we need to be in two difference places at two different times; work we could get around (either of us drop the other off) despite a 50 mile increase onto either's commute, but the family thing could not.
Enter stage Left:
The M3 was roadworthy bar the rear tyres. Since they were an advisory last year, I put on my track wheels with the Kumho V70as. Was it wise? Probably not in these conditions. But they were legal, and the car would once again be mobile with some care. And so with my long suffering and understanding MOT tester, he took me under his wing and MOT'd the M3 for me first thing the next morning. The result? A pass!
That was good. Besides the topics getting deep amongst us at times given the situation about people, we did notice that the M3 passed the emissions with zero coaxing required unlike previous times. Was the missing exhaust gasket the cause of the poor emissions or was it luck? Whatever it was, it seemed luck was 'sort on' on my side, at least from the Car Gods perspective. And so I was once again mobile, and both of us managed to see both family members on demand, for which I am really glad to have done in these times. Is there a takeaway point? Indeed, if your friends and family mean something to you folks, take the time to see them more often. It may only be or 30 minutes, let alone 3 hours when you do. But trust me, you'll appreciate it and be thankful for the times you have enjoyed in the long run.
But anyway, enough of me getting a little mellow! It was good to be back in the M3 and well, I needed some cheer. The car was driving better than ever and besides the exhaust droning like crazy below 2.5kRPM, it sounds superb. Yup, I really am smitten with this old(ish) girl. It's tested me many a time, but it has always somehow pulled through whenever I've asked it to. A degree of luck is about this car I must admit.
I've debated selling this many a time for a tidier example or a tidier car, but then I always remember that the grass is always green. It may look old and now pretty battered, especially on the scratched wheels, but it also looks purposeful and it has been! Yup, it's probably time I addressed the key issues like the bodywork, while it is slowly earning its keep again:
Another thing? With things calming down a little and the dust settling, I've made a start on the brakes again. With @maph2's suggestion, I'm soaking the brass sliders in oil prior to fitting them, in Valvoline's finest, naturally;
One downside is that the one of the brake calipers has a seized nipple within it. I previously tried to get this out with a reverse drill to no avail. It's stuck in there badly. With Big Redd apparently not touching calipers with broken brake nipples, I do need to somehow extract this out. Ideas here are very welcome. For now, I've soaked it in PlusGas. On the positive side, these calipers are the same as the front items on mine, so it's not the end of the world, albeit I would still prefer to use these items. Suggest away here folks.
.
-I've taken it to the Nurbringring twice without a hitch
-Done a couple of track days
-Gone on some great road trips with it. Sure, they're not quite as spectacular as some people's excursions on here, but they are something
-At one point, it seemed one significant thing thing after another just kept on going wrong with it.
-It became a daily last year where I literally had to semi-caress to get to work in a fashion, due to a faulty ABS sensor and zero time to diagnose it. Despite that, it soldiered on like a good soldier of war. I hated driving it in that state, but the car did oblige and just carry on about its business as usual, Christmas tree dash and all!
It seemed it would become a saviour yet again. It's strange ; the last car to do this for me was also not alot older back then, with it generally becoming recalcitrant with a lack of use. I am talking about my old 205 GTi.
So, where was I? Ah yes, the issues.
Basically, we had a family issue lately, with an elderly member becoming very ill and deteriorating fast. This meant almost all of our evenings were consumed with driving up to near Leeds and back most evenings during a week, straight after work. Naturally, I met up with my dad and went up with him. After spending quite a few hours caring for said member, who was not in a good way at all, we knew we had to go back home. After all, we all had work and my mum was there to take care anyway, with us all a phonecall away. Naturally, my dad offered to take his BMW E61 535d up. However, that would not be easy. In short
Day 1 of 10 : Refused to start; This was down to dirty battery connections, which oddly also affected the Merc, but I'll come back to that another time. So my Mondeo cruised up and back.
Day 2 of 10: After driving 100 miles back, this warning appear
It was something like the above. We could have removed the air suspension, but given that time was very tight for the aforementioned reasons, we got an airbag, but would need to find time later to fit it. Obviously, this left us with problems, especially as another member of family has recently suffered with a nasty thing, which I really wouldn't wish on anyone (cancer). So, we'd need to split. I could have hired a car and gone nuts but again, this implementation would require time.
So I decided the next morning to see if I could disable the compressor on the E61. Unfortunately, the drain valve on the compressor was working, so from one side lowering, both did:
Upon starting the car up with the fuse back in the compressor, the car raised again until a loud hiss was heard from the nearside as the car got to a certain height. Yup, it had blown an airbag. With this in mind, I tossed my dad my Mondeo keys, saying that it was his. Since I had sold the Merc, this left me without a car, for work and for family issues, should we need to be in two difference places at two different times; work we could get around (either of us drop the other off) despite a 50 mile increase onto either's commute, but the family thing could not.
Enter stage Left:
The M3 was roadworthy bar the rear tyres. Since they were an advisory last year, I put on my track wheels with the Kumho V70as. Was it wise? Probably not in these conditions. But they were legal, and the car would once again be mobile with some care. And so with my long suffering and understanding MOT tester, he took me under his wing and MOT'd the M3 for me first thing the next morning. The result? A pass!
That was good. Besides the topics getting deep amongst us at times given the situation about people, we did notice that the M3 passed the emissions with zero coaxing required unlike previous times. Was the missing exhaust gasket the cause of the poor emissions or was it luck? Whatever it was, it seemed luck was 'sort on' on my side, at least from the Car Gods perspective. And so I was once again mobile, and both of us managed to see both family members on demand, for which I am really glad to have done in these times. Is there a takeaway point? Indeed, if your friends and family mean something to you folks, take the time to see them more often. It may only be or 30 minutes, let alone 3 hours when you do. But trust me, you'll appreciate it and be thankful for the times you have enjoyed in the long run.
But anyway, enough of me getting a little mellow! It was good to be back in the M3 and well, I needed some cheer. The car was driving better than ever and besides the exhaust droning like crazy below 2.5kRPM, it sounds superb. Yup, I really am smitten with this old(ish) girl. It's tested me many a time, but it has always somehow pulled through whenever I've asked it to. A degree of luck is about this car I must admit.
I've debated selling this many a time for a tidier example or a tidier car, but then I always remember that the grass is always green. It may look old and now pretty battered, especially on the scratched wheels, but it also looks purposeful and it has been! Yup, it's probably time I addressed the key issues like the bodywork, while it is slowly earning its keep again:
Another thing? With things calming down a little and the dust settling, I've made a start on the brakes again. With @maph2's suggestion, I'm soaking the brass sliders in oil prior to fitting them, in Valvoline's finest, naturally
;One downside is that the one of the brake calipers has a seized nipple within it. I previously tried to get this out with a reverse drill to no avail. It's stuck in there badly. With Big Redd apparently not touching calipers with broken brake nipples, I do need to somehow extract this out. Ideas here are very welcome. For now, I've soaked it in PlusGas. On the positive side, these calipers are the same as the front items on mine, so it's not the end of the world, albeit I would still prefer to use these items. Suggest away here folks
.rainmasterb said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Quite out of date now but will update in a few weeks.
Just read through it. The Carbon fibre trim works very well inside. I'm in the process of doing Carbon Cube to mine which a friend provided to me Quite out of date now but will update in a few weeks.
.robotsan said:
I thought as much! So wow, they charge all that extra for the ashtray
Thanks for the help!
P.S. I've now got the M3 bug too, and am thinking of taking the plunge in Jan next year!
From research, I'm aiming to spend under £12k on one like this:
- Manual gearbox
- Under 80k miles
- Ideally only 3 or so owners
- Good/mostly BMW SH
- ideally in one of the greys, blacks, dark blues or silver.
- ideally with red leather!
I realise that's quite a niche list and will take me a while to find, but I'm in no rush.
In terms of most important/expensive things to check on a manual, how is this list? Is there anything to add?:
- subframe: either already reinforced, or a recent check carried out with proof
- vanos?: this seems to be pretty rare on later e46s. But is it something to be worried about on 2002/2003 models?
- clutch: 80k miles is definitely enough for a new clutch in these right?
- springs: prone to breaking I think?
- suspension: trailing arms, bushes, etc etc?
- cooling system: having owned 2 e46 coupes already, I know all components in the cooling system are prone to falling to bits by at least 80k. Same on the M3 I'd imagine?
- water pump - as above!?
- power steering pump - as above!?
sebrings replies to this state it, but buy these cars on condition, and not mileage.Thanks for the help!
P.S. I've now got the M3 bug too, and am thinking of taking the plunge in Jan next year!
From research, I'm aiming to spend under £12k on one like this:
- Manual gearbox
- Under 80k miles
- Ideally only 3 or so owners
- Good/mostly BMW SH
- ideally in one of the greys, blacks, dark blues or silver.
- ideally with red leather!
I realise that's quite a niche list and will take me a while to find, but I'm in no rush.
In terms of most important/expensive things to check on a manual, how is this list? Is there anything to add?:
- subframe: either already reinforced, or a recent check carried out with proof
- vanos?: this seems to be pretty rare on later e46s. But is it something to be worried about on 2002/2003 models?
- clutch: 80k miles is definitely enough for a new clutch in these right?
- springs: prone to breaking I think?
- suspension: trailing arms, bushes, etc etc?
- cooling system: having owned 2 e46 coupes already, I know all components in the cooling system are prone to falling to bits by at least 80k. Same on the M3 I'd imagine?
- water pump - as above!?
- power steering pump - as above!?
Ive had 2, never had cooling or clutch issues on either.
Had the subframe sorted by BMW under warranty, this wont happen now as all cars are too old.
changing the steering arms and rear bushes would be the very first thing I did if I bought another, transforms the car.
SebringMan said:
Right, I'm back!
Anyway, that's quite a spec! I'd differ in saying that I wouldn't dote on the mileage quite as much for that budget. As I've said previously I've driven a
31k, 75k, 91k, 118k and mine at 122k (now on 149k). The best one I've driven (engine and chassis) was the 91k car, followed by either the 118k or mine, then the 31k and then the 75k car. Mine now probably is very close to the 91k car, but it wasn't close when I got it.
Exterior and interior condition wise, I'd say it goes back then as follows : 91k, 75k, 31k, 122k and then the 118k car. Mine still would hold third. Bar the wings on on mine now, the condition between the top 4 isn't that big.
The 31k car is a very well respected car on a certain forum and maintained by 'specialists' who IMHO should know better. 75k car was allegedly owned by a MasterTech where it had some questionable work. 91k was a chequebook mechanic car, which had all of the big jobs done. People will argue that was a Trigger's broom car, but these cares are now 16 years old minimum. Rubbers, and bits will be old and need to be changed ideally. Admittedly, lower mileage may get you a tidier interior (not always) and possibly less rust. Anyway, the other bits.
- subframe: Reinforced through the right people (Tegiwa, ETA, Redish or Darragh; I'm sure there are others) is great, but not the end of the world. All of them will crack but via checking when servicing the car, it can be caught well in time and still be cost effective (well, £1k-1.5k) to reinforce. But any floor ideally is best reinforced, even a new one from BMW, which they did to a small degree on the later cars.
- VANOS : This effects all, high and low mileage, early or late. The valve blocks can gum up which can cause less performance and the solenoid packs can go. These if you don't mind getting your hands dirty are a simple job to do with some care and Beisan provide decent instructions on this 'Stage 1' repair. The tabs can break on the cam, but again, (I'm probably riskier here), it's something that can be checked during an Inspection (A One or a Two).
- Clutch : Last depending on who's driven it. IIRC, I think mine may well be on the original clutch at close to 150k ; Admittedly, mine has evidence of being a motorway car for the first 90k/6 years.
- Springs : Rears break now and again, but again, for a home mechanic are a very easy job to change. You almost wonder if BMW knew they'd break!
- Suspenion : If the car has the rear subgframe bushes done, great! With Poly items in, they make such a difference to the car; the factory ones have ally centres which corrode slightly and can cause debonding of the bush from the metal. Lollypops up front are long lived if genuine bits are used, RTABs can go, and again genuine or a decent poly bush can be good in this application
- Cooling system : On track they can be tested but when maintained they are OK. They are not quite as bad to bleed out as a non-M E46 due to having a decent header tank design. Viscous fans can go which can cause issues. I've not had a water pump go on my Fords or BMWs yet, but I have only ever used factory coolants in both, with them being changed when they should be changed (Ford Super Plus 10 year in the Mondeo, and G48/BMW coolant in the BMWs.
-PAS Pump ; Not had a problem. Changing the reservoir (it has a filter inside) and putting in fresh fluid can make a pleasant difference. The High pressure PAS pipe can go at the clamps, where Hack sell a braided line or I sell a tougher, albeit potentially slightly noisier hose (due to the wire braid vs. the factory textile braid), which won't go (sorry for the shameless plug, but it's handy to know at times.
SMGs get a bad rep for reliability and usage recents, but they IME aren't quite as bad with the right know-how and maintenance/understanding. I.e a semi-underperforming but OK engine and prop bits will make an SMG seem worse ; I know it did on mine.
The manuals can suffer issues as well, which with digging (or spending time on the forums) become more apparent including:
-Poor 2nd or 3rd syncros (they can be tough to use when cold and probably should be nursed when cold IMHO)
-Shifter bushing issues (cheap to fix for most of the bushes ; or better still get a short shifter like an RTD to get the most of it).
-Popping out of the reverse. This is a little more common when you search for it.
So with a manual, I'd definitely get it warmed up and ensure it's fine in all of the gears.
Thanks for such a detailed response mate, that's amazing : ) Anyway, that's quite a spec! I'd differ in saying that I wouldn't dote on the mileage quite as much for that budget. As I've said previously I've driven a
31k, 75k, 91k, 118k and mine at 122k (now on 149k). The best one I've driven (engine and chassis) was the 91k car, followed by either the 118k or mine, then the 31k and then the 75k car. Mine now probably is very close to the 91k car, but it wasn't close when I got it.
Exterior and interior condition wise, I'd say it goes back then as follows : 91k, 75k, 31k, 122k and then the 118k car. Mine still would hold third. Bar the wings on on mine now, the condition between the top 4 isn't that big.
The 31k car is a very well respected car on a certain forum and maintained by 'specialists' who IMHO should know better. 75k car was allegedly owned by a MasterTech where it had some questionable work. 91k was a chequebook mechanic car, which had all of the big jobs done. People will argue that was a Trigger's broom car, but these cares are now 16 years old minimum. Rubbers, and bits will be old and need to be changed ideally. Admittedly, lower mileage may get you a tidier interior (not always) and possibly less rust. Anyway, the other bits
.- subframe: Reinforced through the right people (Tegiwa, ETA, Redish or Darragh; I'm sure there are others) is great, but not the end of the world. All of them will crack but via checking when servicing the car, it can be caught well in time and still be cost effective (well, £1k-1.5k) to reinforce. But any floor ideally is best reinforced, even a new one from BMW, which they did to a small degree on the later cars.
- VANOS : This effects all, high and low mileage, early or late. The valve blocks can gum up which can cause less performance and the solenoid packs can go. These if you don't mind getting your hands dirty are a simple job to do with some care and Beisan provide decent instructions on this 'Stage 1' repair. The tabs can break on the cam, but again, (I'm probably riskier here), it's something that can be checked during an Inspection (A One or a Two).
- Clutch : Last depending on who's driven it. IIRC, I think mine may well be on the original clutch at close to 150k ; Admittedly, mine has evidence of being a motorway car for the first 90k/6 years.
- Springs : Rears break now and again, but again, for a home mechanic are a very easy job to change. You almost wonder if BMW knew they'd break!
- Suspenion : If the car has the rear subgframe bushes done, great! With Poly items in, they make such a difference to the car; the factory ones have ally centres which corrode slightly and can cause debonding of the bush from the metal. Lollypops up front are long lived if genuine bits are used, RTABs can go, and again genuine or a decent poly bush can be good in this application
- Cooling system : On track they can be tested but when maintained they are OK. They are not quite as bad to bleed out as a non-M E46 due to having a decent header tank design. Viscous fans can go which can cause issues. I've not had a water pump go on my Fords or BMWs yet, but I have only ever used factory coolants in both, with them being changed when they should be changed (Ford Super Plus 10 year in the Mondeo, and G48/BMW coolant in the BMWs.
-PAS Pump ; Not had a problem. Changing the reservoir (it has a filter inside) and putting in fresh fluid can make a pleasant difference. The High pressure PAS pipe can go at the clamps, where Hack sell a braided line or I sell a tougher, albeit potentially slightly noisier hose (due to the wire braid vs. the factory textile braid), which won't go (sorry for the shameless plug, but it's handy to know at times
.SMGs get a bad rep for reliability and usage recents, but they IME aren't quite as bad with the right know-how and maintenance/understanding. I.e a semi-underperforming but OK engine and prop bits will make an SMG seem worse ; I know it did on mine.
The manuals can suffer issues as well, which with digging (or spending time on the forums) become more apparent including:
-Poor 2nd or 3rd syncros (they can be tough to use when cold and probably should be nursed when cold IMHO)
-Shifter bushing issues (cheap to fix for most of the bushes ; or better still get a short shifter like an RTD to get the most of it).
-Popping out of the reverse. This is a little more common when you search for it.
So with a manual, I'd definitely get it warmed up and ensure it's fine in all of the gears.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 9th March 19:49
Yeah I hear you on the mileage - but I'm looking at this car as a future investment, so I'm thinking low milage as poss, to help that future value. I shouldn't be doing more than 4,000 miles a year in the M3 anyway - I'll probably get a s
t daily car at some point too so it should be even less on the M3. If I'm focusing on sub-90k mileage, for £12k I'm expecting to make sacrifices in other areas, so I guess it's a question of where exactly. I won't be getting one without good service history & lots of receipts that's for sure, so I'm thinking maybe if everything seems fine mechanically and SH wise, but the bodywork, wheels/interior are original but need work, that seems like a good honest car and I can hopefully just put money into them?! Wishful thinking maybe!
Would you recommend that I pay for an inspection of any potential car by an AA/RAC/Green Flag mechanic? I know my cars, but I've missed things in the past because I just don't have enough knowledge.
Subframe - so are you saying it should only be done by those companies, and maybe an additional few? Is that for reputation if reselling - e.g. as it's been done by one of the recommended/renowned specialists? Or just that its such a specialist job it should only be done by a select few? It sounds like I am able to check the boot floor myself for cracks, if I remove the spare wheel etc? Or if not, is it something an AA/RAC/Green Flag inspection would be able to spot?
Also on subframe, I've heard the later cars were reinforced from the factory - is that true?
VANOS - Ok that's interesting. So when you say "can" be checked in an Inspection 1 & 2, that sounds like it doesn't mean it is definitely part of the inspection? And apart from noise, there's no way to tell other than by opening it up? And I'm guessing if I paid for an AA/RAC/Green Flag inspection on the car when looking to buy, they wouldn't be able to check?
Suspension - sounds straightforward! I'm guessing the subframe bushes can be changed whenever, not just when reinforcing the subframe?
What the Diff? I've seen some cars going cheap (under £8k) due to noisy or leaking diffs. Should I stay away? It seems like its a pain in the arse and expensive to get these rebuilt - like I'd have to pay for someone to remove the diff and then post it to a specialist?!
I've also read a lot about the Con rods going on earlier (2000 to mid-2003) models. So apparently its a good idea to run the VIN through a dealer to see if it had the recall on these. But on later cars they were fine from the factory?
Thanks for the advice!
PS I test drove a £20k, 50k mile 2006 m3 the other day (because it was the nearest manual to me on sale, not because I could afford it!).. it was incredible & definitely cemented the plan to buy one in my head
The car was mostly mint, but the rear bumper had been resprayed and wasn't perfect. It gives me a nice benchmark though.Edited by robotsan on Wednesday 11th March 13:00
Simon-k41v9 said:
sebrings replies to this state it, but buy these cars on condition, and not mileage.
Ive had 2, never had cooling or clutch issues on either.
Had the subframe sorted by BMW under warranty, this wont happen now as all cars are too old.
changing the steering arms and rear bushes would be the very first thing I did if I bought another, transforms the car.
Thanks! Maybe they sorted out the cooling system for the M3 - I imagine it would have to be beefier than the normal e46s. Ive had 2, never had cooling or clutch issues on either.
Had the subframe sorted by BMW under warranty, this wont happen now as all cars are too old.
changing the steering arms and rear bushes would be the very first thing I did if I bought another, transforms the car.
Thanks for the advice re: steering arms and bushes. I had to replaced them on my 330 too and it made a nice difference on that : )
What about the steering racks? I read a review that said the early M3s were a bit vague and not actually as tight as a 330, but then the racks might have been upgraded later?
cheers!
helix402 said:
You can carry out a VANOs test with diagnostic software. Early cars were recalled for big end bearing replacement. Diff leaks are just seals, easy to replace.
OK that's good. Which software? I've only ever managed to get PA Soft working, and I imagine that can't do it?! An RAC or AA inspection wouldn't be able to detect it would they? I'm guessing INPA is needed?
Re: Diff, ok thats good for leaks, but what about noisy diffs?
robotsan said:
OK that's good. Which software? I've only ever managed to get PA Soft working, and I imagine that can't do it?!
An RAC or AA inspection wouldn't be able to detect it would they? I'm guessing INPA is needed?
Re: Diff, ok thats good for leaks, but what about noisy diffs?
DIS and ISTA will do the VANOs test. I don’t use INPA much. Yes, some diffs get noisy. An RAC or AA inspection wouldn't be able to detect it would they? I'm guessing INPA is needed?
Re: Diff, ok thats good for leaks, but what about noisy diffs?
robotsan said:
Simon-k41v9 said:
sebrings replies to this state it, but buy these cars on condition, and not mileage.
Ive had 2, never had cooling or clutch issues on either.
Had the subframe sorted by BMW under warranty, this wont happen now as all cars are too old.
changing the steering arms and rear bushes would be the very first thing I did if I bought another, transforms the car.
Thanks! Maybe they sorted out the cooling system for the M3 - I imagine it would have to be beefier than the normal e46s. Ive had 2, never had cooling or clutch issues on either.
Had the subframe sorted by BMW under warranty, this wont happen now as all cars are too old.
changing the steering arms and rear bushes would be the very first thing I did if I bought another, transforms the car.
Thanks for the advice re: steering arms and bushes. I had to replaced them on my 330 too and it made a nice difference on that : )
What about the steering racks? I read a review that said the early M3s were a bit vague and not actually as tight as a 330, but then the racks might have been upgraded later?
cheers!
I'm currently selling my M3 which may fit your requirements if you want to get in touch.
Noisy diffs 90% of the time are benign. It's the plates getting noisy within, and it's a known noise. It generally happens as the car turns.
Basically, they need a friction modifier (FM) to stay quiet. People and specialists try to make a blended fluid, generally using Castrol and a Redline FM to do this. But the only true fix I've seen is to buy the updated fluid from BMW. The downside is it's £100 a litre, which is why people chance the Castol and Redline FM combo.
The diff oil is very easy to change however.
With the VANOS, ideally you need to do two checks, but one can be done during one of the Inspections:
-DIS/ISTA test as pointed out by Helix402 ; This to some degree can show issues with the second item
-Checking the oil pump tabs on the camshaft sproket ; One can break off or begin to break and stay in for a while, When both go, the oil pump will stop on the VANOS and lead to the VANOS not working.
Basically, they need a friction modifier (FM) to stay quiet. People and specialists try to make a blended fluid, generally using Castrol and a Redline FM to do this. But the only true fix I've seen is to buy the updated fluid from BMW. The downside is it's £100 a litre, which is why people chance the Castol and Redline FM combo.
The diff oil is very easy to change however.
With the VANOS, ideally you need to do two checks, but one can be done during one of the Inspections:
-DIS/ISTA test as pointed out by Helix402 ; This to some degree can show issues with the second item
-Checking the oil pump tabs on the camshaft sproket ; One can break off or begin to break and stay in for a while, When both go, the oil pump will stop on the VANOS and lead to the VANOS not working.
Edited by SebringMan on Friday 13th March 18:00
Cheburator mk2 said:
The broken bleeding nipple - don'd do anythning stupid. Google for your local spark erosion specialist. It would take them about 20mins to get it cleanly. I had all four shear on my E46 M3 - £50 later and 3hrs I was back in the game...
Cheers. I'll have a chat with one nearby to me .So, as I alluded to, the exhaust droned like a mo-fo! It was fine when not under load and when above 2.7kRPM. Great if you are enjoying the car. Not so great if you are sticking to speed limits, trying to not run people over in town, or best of all, stuck on an average speed camera section on the M1. So, yes, it did become a little testing. What's more, it wasn't as vocal as I thought it would be inside the car above 3kRPM. So, it was like a grumpy teenager. Annoying where you didn't want to it be, and compliant elsewhere. Obviously, it couldn't stay.
A video will come soon for that, but that will take some editing.
Since someone needed the backbox for a trackday car, I decided to let it go. With them going from a single side exit, this would be the perfect backbox. And so off it came!
So, it was back to work on the car in its familiar place:
With the car on the ramps, it was a simple matter of removing the old system. Since I used new fixings it took all of 5 minutes to remove the backbox. Really, it wasn't that bad at all, especially now I know how to speed the process. For those tackling this, if your exhaust mounts are sound, don't remove them, you can just remove the mount-to-backbox nuts with some care, even on a stock midsection. This can speed up the removal nicely. On a small backbox like the Milltek, the extra access makes this much easier proposition. Who said upgrades complicate things? Given why I'm removing it, don't comment on that!
With the Milltek off, it was time to compare it to the other offerings I had. One including an Eisenmann Race backbox in addition to the stock midsection. The Eisenmann does look scruffy but it is very sound, and it was going for a half decent price. I'm told these don't drone but we shall see. However, note how the Eisenmann is similar to the stock backbox in many ways. You can see why the Milltek (and also similar backboxes like the Tegiwa, Scorpian and Cobra backboxes are said to drone ; there really isn't much silencing going on. Some claim the Milltek is restrictive, why may explain why it gets quieter inside the car when gunning it, but I couldn't really see any evidence of that.
So, here are all of the backboxes. From left to right in the below shot we have a Milltek, an Eisenmann Race exhaust with the 83mm tips, in addition to the stock item.
There is big difference in weight between these backboxes as the figures below show:
-Milltek - 12.5kg
-Eisenmann - Apparently around 16kg
-Stock - 26kg!
Yup, the Milltek was easier to fit due to it not weighing as much! But you do wonder if it will affect the weight distribution.
Someone has offered to polish up the Milltek, so that will be done soon. It's a shame as I really wanted to fit it then!
But for the meantime, the car is just surrounded by backboxes. Is this madness or am I a hoarder? We shall see:
A video will come soon for that, but that will take some editing
.Since someone needed the backbox for a trackday car, I decided to let it go. With them going from a single side exit, this would be the perfect backbox. And so off it came!
So, it was back to work on the car in its familiar place:
With the car on the ramps, it was a simple matter of removing the old system. Since I used new fixings it took all of 5 minutes to remove the backbox. Really, it wasn't that bad at all, especially now I know how to speed the process. For those tackling this, if your exhaust mounts are sound, don't remove them, you can just remove the mount-to-backbox nuts with some care, even on a stock midsection. This can speed up the removal nicely. On a small backbox like the Milltek, the extra access makes this much easier proposition. Who said upgrades complicate things? Given why I'm removing it, don't comment on that!
With the Milltek off, it was time to compare it to the other offerings I had. One including an Eisenmann Race backbox in addition to the stock midsection. The Eisenmann does look scruffy but it is very sound, and it was going for a half decent price. I'm told these don't drone but we shall see. However, note how the Eisenmann is similar to the stock backbox in many ways. You can see why the Milltek (and also similar backboxes like the Tegiwa, Scorpian and Cobra backboxes are said to drone ; there really isn't much silencing going on. Some claim the Milltek is restrictive, why may explain why it gets quieter inside the car when gunning it, but I couldn't really see any evidence of that.
So, here are all of the backboxes. From left to right in the below shot we have a Milltek, an Eisenmann Race exhaust with the 83mm tips, in addition to the stock item.
There is big difference in weight between these backboxes as the figures below show:
-Milltek - 12.5kg
-Eisenmann - Apparently around 16kg
-Stock - 26kg!
Yup, the Milltek was easier to fit due to it not weighing as much! But you do wonder if it will affect the weight distribution.
Someone has offered to polish up the Milltek, so that will be done soon
. It's a shame as I really wanted to fit it then! But for the meantime, the car is just surrounded by backboxes. Is this madness or am I a hoarder? We shall see
:Brilliant thread SebringMan. 
I never realised the M3 just had the one back-box with 4 tail-pipes, until now!
I bought a Z4M Coupe recently that has two back-boxes and mine came with Powerflow ones fitted which I really like - a bit more volume when you are "on it" but sensibly quiet when you aren't.
But now I understand exactly why the S54 engine is so highly regarded - it's fantastic!
It's great to see your car getting spoilt for so long - enjoy.
I never realised the M3 just had the one back-box with 4 tail-pipes, until now!
I bought a Z4M Coupe recently that has two back-boxes and mine came with Powerflow ones fitted which I really like - a bit more volume when you are "on it" but sensibly quiet when you aren't.
But now I understand exactly why the S54 engine is so highly regarded - it's fantastic!
It's great to see your car getting spoilt for so long - enjoy.
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