Knackered old Porsche with loads of miles - 996 content

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alec.e said:

Forgive me being nosey, last MOT November 2015 showed 130k, so 170k in 7 months?

No, 170K in four years. With a good 70K of that being in the last year or so. However Porsche dashes aren't the most robust thing and it had a new(er) one in 2007 and 2015. With the milestone coming up I put some effort in and found a mileage correction person who was confident it could be put back to the correct mileage so it was a 300K car on the dash, not just in the paperwork. It has also suffered in the past with haircut syndrome (as many of them have), it had managed to crack 100K miles in 2006 but then oddly when it was sold that year was back at 27K

I'll have to do the same thing again soon as the dash faces are bubbling on this dash now too.

Here is my complaining the speedo needle was sticking on a bubble thread:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 17th June 19:00

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 17th June 19:04

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 17th June 19:07

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 17th June 19:07

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ooid said:

Great Car!

Very interested to hear about your cooling system? you mentioned, AC removed to boost cooling system. This is super-interesting for all of us out there with m96 engines!

Have you driven in busy traffic a lot? or usually open roads?

The aircon condensers sit in front of the radiators which reduces flow through the rads and therefore cooling ability. Many people fit a third radiator but in doing so this increases drag quite considerably so I didn't want to do that.

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NinjaPower said:

I notice you have no front number plate. Do you ever get bothered by the police either in the UK or Europe over it? I run a 993 with a very small front plate and seem to get left alone

I have never been asked about it in the UK, it has been mentioned a few times at border crossings etc. but pointing out the cars from Singapore and it has never had one seems to be sufficent excuse.

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Rensko said:

Would this make it the highest mileage 996 around?

300k is a fair effort

There's at least two 996 Turbo and a C2 in the states with more. Also a Boxster with 320K odd on it now out there too.

Big mileage on a 996 isn't that uncommon

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leon9191 said:

You'd be surprised how practical they are, an RS4 would use twice as much fuel as well, people don't realise how economical these really are.

This is very true, this car does 22MPG at 120mph. A C63 by comparison does 14MPG at the same speed!

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Baddie said:

Fantastic thread, best in ages.

I sunk a lot of money into an e34 M5, possibly my first lottery car fully restored.

PPBB, did you consider any other cars for this treatment? I was very intrigued to read you describing how well engineered a 996 is. It's the first thing I've read that made me think I might like one, I always thought it was expediently engineered. Why this and not an older Porsche / newer Porsche / BMW M car / Audi / Ferrari 4 - seater?

The M96 engine maybe isn't the pinnacle of engineering prowess but the rest of the car is very, very good with regards suspension design, packaging etc. etc. Even things like the sensor pack used by the PSM are "good kit" that is also available out of the Bosch Motorsport catalogue for race car use.

I've had Porsches before and have always had a soft spot for them since we raced them a while ago. I actually chose this one because I felt a bit sorry for it, it needed quite a few bits and had a very questionable history including some accident damage and blatant clocking. At the time it was about as low as the 996 market ever got so it was also very cheap and was a none sunroof car which are pretty rare. It also had the sweet spot of a mid-99 3.4 which had the dual row IMS bearing. As whatever I went for was going to have a lot of reprep to make it reliable and I'm not much of a fan of modern stuff this seemed to tick all the boxes. Lots of miles later I don't regret it and I think the car is pretty happy not to have ended up with some horrific wheels and a bad wrap like so many 996s at the bottom of the market do.

I still think today the 996 is an utter bargain for what it is and a good one, even 17 years later is still capable of keeping some modern stuff honest. They're not especially quick 0-100mph, no more so than a modern hot hatch, but the low drag and excellent chassis means they are capable of big speeds on not a lot of power and can "do" handling very well.

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LaurasOtherHalf said:

Might be a daft question, but how do you safely carry a gearbox in the cabin with you?! I'm not exactly a risk averse kind of bloke but I'm not sure even I would want to be doing those big speeds with something that heavy not extremely well secured

No pas seat = big tie downs available

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Doofus said:

It occurred to me that if a piece of equipment misses the plane, it must be quicker to put it on the next plane, rather than have you drive half way across Europe, let alone all the way to Africa.

A lot of it can't be flown because of the materials it contains. Also quite often travel is via charter flights so chartering a whole additional plane to take a set of wishbones and a wing flap out is not really cost effective.

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ooid said:

Thanks! How about the radiators, waterpump and cooling fans? How many times have you changed them during your 300k lifetime so far? Sorry if you had already mentioned that, had a quick second browse but could not find it. I'm particularly interested in cooling system on both 996 and 986, especially the life-time of these essential components.

Water pump is changed yearly as it's a metal impellor item so needs changing before the bearing fails to avoid damaging anything else. It's on its third set of rads and original cooling fans.

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bucks said:

And hat's my point, £3k in fuel PA is not very much at all, seems far too low. I spend more in a dull MK4 Gti

Averaged over it's life..... it hasn't been doing 60K miles a year for 17 years!

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C7 JFW said:

Probably the most interesting thread I've read on PistonHeads in a while - not least because I do a whole LOT of miles myself and often transporting items that are also valuable.

Fascinating read and really very grateful that you've shared as much as you have - particularly about the fuelling solution you use.

Couple of questions for you:
- Who manufactures the fuel tanks you use and which brand/model of pump?
- How did you check the structural integrity of the wheels you installed - I take it they were X-Rayed? Who offers this service?
- Do you know how to improve water resilience to essential electronics? I appreciate that placing important connections above chest height is a smart idea, but insulating the connectors themselves is very important.
- How many miles do a set of tyres give you? Roughly..
- I read that you'd uprated your lights - do you have a link to the Porsche forum describing how?
- Do you run standard seats and how comfy are they?

And finally....
- Do you wear specific clothing given the nature of what you're doing - fire retardant inc a helmet?

Thanks for posting the thread up.

Main tank is standard Porsche with an AFS bag, secondary tank is ATL saver cell with an AFS bag. AFS foam in both. Collector in the main tank is from an 06 STR, lift pumps from an 09 Brawn, transfer pump is the largest Facet solid state they do as these don't mind running dry and control is via a timed relay that drops the pump off after a fixed period of time.

Wheels were xrayed. There are many, many companies that offer NDT services for motorsport and aerospace that can do this.

As above the coils are potted onto a loom so there is no connector on the coil itself. These terminate into a 6 way Autosport on the top of each cylinder head which carries power and trigger to the coils. Loom and connector is finished to Deutsh spec so that is all it needs to be enviromentaly sealed. Everything else is standard Porsche bar the throttle body which is on a later spec connector.

15K ish from a set, it depends on use.

Lights are H7 package CREE LEDs from their motorsport/LMP catalogue. They fit as per the standard bulbs. The reflectors have been cut down slightly to reduce the scatter/spill.

Yes standard seats precisely because they are comfy.

Jeans a t-shirt mainly. You'd look a bit of a cock rocking up at the Eurotunnel in three layers of Nomex and a lid!

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Theophany said:

Please tell me I'm reading this right and that you're using ex-F1 race car parts in your car. That is all kinds of awesome.

Well you use what you have to hand.

There are pics further up the thread of collector and pumps, although they might be the old spec lifts which were 2000 BAR.

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So bit of an update on it. It continues to work without much issue with a good few thousand miles more under its belt since I started this thread. It's got another trip to France to do next week so that's another 1K miles there.

Depending which way you look at today is it's birthday. It left the line at Stuttgart just before 7AM on the 5th July 1999 and left the factory having had the none line bits done on the afternoon of the 21st. So it was either 17 on Tuesday the 5th or it's 17 today. Either way this is a car that was built last millennium, is still in daily use and continues to outperform a great deal of modern stuff. Whatever issues the later 996s had (and there were a few) I do have to tip my hat to Porsche for building this one.

Few more upgrades coming through as well during summer break. Firstly "hot and high" cooling can be an issue, especially in 30 degree+ ambient temps so I have decided to move to CSF radiators. I did look at having something made but to be honest the CSF rads seem to have a great reputation, are very well priced and the cost of having specific cores made to match the installation angle is pretty hefty so we'll see what they're like:



I'm not keen on going to a centre radiator as is the "normal" way of boosting the cooling on a 996 as it means opening up the centre rad duct and this is really (REALLY) draggy hence keeping with two corner rads of a more effective design is more efficient from an aero point of view even if they are themselves more draggy than the standard rads due to the denser cores. Hopefully it'll still pull 7K RPM in top with them in

I'm also going to make some changes to the fuel system to support a touch more fuel capacity. There's not actually any reason why I can't just run a bag and use the shell as the "tank" so when I have a few minutes spare I'll draw something up accordingly. This will mean making a new fuel bag and new "false" floor in the nose but that's all pretty straight forwards. Aside from that it's due a clutch shortly as it's lifed so it will get all the normal slave, fork, release bearing etc. bits changed at the same time just to be on the safe side.

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So another quick update. CSF rads are in and I have to say are very good. Running temps reduced by around 10 degrees in a 30 degree ambient and coming through the tunnels in Paris on a hot day in traffic no longer requires a cool down run up to a steady high speed before getting on it.



The fit is extremely good, exactly like OE apart from they aren't handed and as such you only need to carry one as a spare should you wish to.



I've also upgraded from my old Evo 4 logger to the new Evo 5 which I am very impressed with, it's mounted in the nose unlike the 4 which was in the car and whilst this mounting position does compromise the yaw sensing etc. that's not something I am too concerned about in a road car! I'll be moving control of the fans and possibly the aux tank transfer pump to this in the near future as it has a couple of digital outputs on it for which you can create your own control strategies.



Aside from that it's well north of 300K now and still going strong.

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 26th August 20:43

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monthefish said:

Where is that sticker located?

Behind the rear bumper. It is used to track the shell on the line so gives a pretty good idea of when it was built.

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Heaveho said:

Hi, did you have prior knowledge of CSFs products? Just wondering what made you choose their stuff as an upgrade. Also a Porsche owner, so have a vested interest!

Yes I've used them previously on a race car with excellent results so knew what I would be getting. As said above for volume produced kit it is amazing quality and realistically will last the life of the car. There will also shortly be a proper UK dealer as at the moment they only place is D911 who order in from the states and as such it takes ages to get anything!

They are a lot more than the pattern rads doing the rounds but they are pretty rubbish with less tubes than the OEM rads and even weaker end tanks. The OE Porsche rads are actually pretty good with regards cooling efficiency etc. when new but they don't last that long all things considered and obviously are still plastic end tanked. The CSF ones are similar money to OE Porsche so it's a bit of a no brainer really to use them.

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So as a bit of a busman's holiday I did Pure Rally to Monaco in it the week before last.



2000 miles in 4 days was actually a pretty chilled out one for it although we did manage Monaco to Calais on a one stop on the return so that was a bit more like it! The range possible with decent fuel capacity, even at making progress speeds, is still really impressive.

For an old banger it gave an excellent account of itself and we had a lot of fun convoying with various far newer stuff including this white Gallardo which was an absolute peach and all credit to the guys with it as it was impeccably driven.



Still not sure the unsubtle stickers did anything for it but they certainly look a bit more race car and in motion looked the part:




As part of this years big service it also had a clutch as this was lifed out. RMS and IMS seal was changed at the same time as one or the other had started to weep a few 10's of thousands of miles before and changing both is the easiest option. Still no play in the IMS bearing at this mileage so that has stayed in, I'm pretty sure it will last the engine out and that's not because it'll be the thing that kills it As a result of swapping the seals the oil consumption has dropped quite significantly. Over 2K miles it used around 625ml which is less than some when they were new! Still plenty of life in the old motor yet!

For those interested this years big service ignoring parts which were upgrades not service was:
- Plugs
- Coil Packs (changed every second year regardless).
- All filters including aux tank transfer filter, main fuel filter and a fresh BMC air filter.
- MAF (changed every second year regardless)
- Crank and Cam sensors (changed every second year regardless)
- Toe Arm sphericals (these seem to be quite short lived so this is pretty much an annual replacement)
- Dampers stripped, inspected and rebuilt (again every second year regardless) along with top mounts and all suspension joints inspected.
- Clutch, cover plate, release bearing, clutch fork and pivot (lifed at 100K) along with RMS and IMS cover plate seal.
- Oil and filters obviously (this engine carries 9.25L of oil at full vs 8 - 8.25 for a standard M96)
- Everything else was inspect and check and was all good bar a couple of clips and fasteners that were looking worse for wear and were replaced.

Not a lot planned for it really aside from general service. I may go to floating front discs at some point, probably when I move to fresh hubs, as there is some run out somewhere in the front setup that requires the discs skimming on the car to achieve true running through the caliper. On standard size discs it probably wouldn't be all the noticeable and coupled with the fact that the front hubs are original it's fairly forgivable. Aside from that I'm just going to keep banging miles onto it because it seems to get on quite well with that MO

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Mikeeb said:

Any thoughts as to why the IMS bearing in this engine has survived so well?

Pretty much all the dual row bearing 3.4L cars do. If memory serves it's something like 0.7% failure rate on dual row cars vs 8% on single row cars. The dual row bearing is massive and simply isn't a failure point.

Even when you consider the single row bearing cars, when you compare them to the amount of M engines eating rod bearings and AMGs of similar vintage to the 996 going horribly rusty it's not actually that big a deal. Either buy one that's been built or buy a cheaper one and rebuild it if you are one of the 8%.... it's no more than sorting an S54 engine out. The 996 has unfairly got a reputation for being unreliable when realistically they are one of the toughest cars out there in terms of their ability to munch miles and wear it well, indeed it is the garaged only used at weekends low mileage ones that seem to suffer the most!

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ooid said:

Thanks for the massive info again, quite useful!

Can you explain a bit on the MAF please? Any specific/technical reason that you have to change once every two years? Also wanted to ask about AOS, how of then do you change?

Two years is 80K miles. They aren't that expensive and it's silly to leave them in past that when they're not far off design life and a failure will cause various problems from poor start to loss of PSM/ABS as the ECU is unable to run the torque reduction strategies required for both.

It's had one AOS and a set of bellows if memory serves.

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overshoot said:

On the infamous IMS, can you check if the engine has the dual row by, engine number, VIN or build date?

There was a mix and match with some cars having dual row and some single row during 2000. Generally speaking the 99 cars were dual row and as such a 3.4 99 C2 or C4 is a pretty good bet for reliable poverty pork