Knackered old Porsche with loads of miles - 996 content
Discussion
poppopbangbang said:
Capricorn (or rather Capricorn Automotive as Capricorn are a massive group) are doing liners and pistons including the machining of the original block and liner fit, there are also some additional operations required on the original block for coolant flow etc. due to closing the deck. They are mostly an F1/Pro-Motorsport/OEM supplier rather than tuner market but a few do have parts produced by them if they are not cost limited. They also do a lot of parts and service for our VJ/CK/TJ F1 motors.
http://www.capricorngroup.net/en/kolben/service/
Autofarms 3.7L Cayman is using the same approach so it's fairly well proven. Just the cost of doing this is many, many times more than banging a Nikasil ally sleeve down there.
I'm not really a fan of a turbo motors power delivery and they are inheriently less reliable and heavier due to the higher component count. Also in my experience the GT1 based motors (Turbo/GT3) have less life than the M96 and generally require a looking at which costs much more than an M96 at 200K miles or so. Used properly a dual row M96 will clear at least 250K miles - this is probably a sore point as my experience of 996 generation 911s seems to be at total odds with the entire internet...... in the real world the difference between 350bhp and 450bhp isn't actually that much, both cars can cruise at 160mph so over several hundred miles being a few seconds quicker to 160mph doesn't make much difference especially when you probably have an additional fuel stop due to running richer mixtures than the NA engine.
Ahh that's why I haven't seen much of them then. I know Lichfield use them for their liners / engine work. Not really heard much about them otherwise though. http://www.capricorngroup.net/en/kolben/service/
Autofarms 3.7L Cayman is using the same approach so it's fairly well proven. Just the cost of doing this is many, many times more than banging a Nikasil ally sleeve down there.
I'm not really a fan of a turbo motors power delivery and they are inheriently less reliable and heavier due to the higher component count. Also in my experience the GT1 based motors (Turbo/GT3) have less life than the M96 and generally require a looking at which costs much more than an M96 at 200K miles or so. Used properly a dual row M96 will clear at least 250K miles - this is probably a sore point as my experience of 996 generation 911s seems to be at total odds with the entire internet...... in the real world the difference between 350bhp and 450bhp isn't actually that much, both cars can cruise at 160mph so over several hundred miles being a few seconds quicker to 160mph doesn't make much difference especially when you probably have an additional fuel stop due to running richer mixtures than the NA engine.
Thanks for the honest and interesting response!
Congratulations on a superb thread and an even better attitude. I just love the story of this car. It is great to hear about a car—or any machine for that matter—being used to its full potential. The story really glorifies the quality of the machine so much more than a Nurburgring lap time or a Wales road test ever could. And as you might expect, I applaud the approach of maintain, repair and improve. Far better than throw away and replace.
r129sl said:
Congratulations on a superb thread and an even better attitude. I just love the story of this car. It is great to hear about a car—or any machine for that matter—being used to its full potential. The story really glorifies the quality of the machine so much more than a Nurburgring lap time or a Wales road test ever could. And as you might expect, I applaud the approach of maintain, repair and improve. Far better than throw away and replace.
There isn't really anything I could replace it with I don't think..... I did look around a year or so back but a 997 is just a less reliable 996 that's less hackable electronically and not a lot else combines the fuel efficiency, interior space and pace that this does. It has always been a case with this of as stuff wears out, fit better stuff so the engine is just in keeping with that. Not a lot to report at this stage aside from the block is waiting at Capricorn and there is a big box of bits from Porsche ready for when it comes back. ETA at the moment for being back in the car and running is towards the end of Feb - I miss it very much!
Hey PPBB,
Got a quick question, i know you covered that you changed the radiators.. but how have you managed to keep the car sitting at 90c degrees constantly. I can barely keep mine under 100c degrees on a cold night?
Im at my ends wits and dont know which way to go. I'm also looking at the CSF radiators just wanted your opinion before i continue down that expensive road.
Your thread gives me more confidence in my 156.000km 1998 996 c2
... I too believe the car got a bad rep and people just went with it.
Got a quick question, i know you covered that you changed the radiators.. but how have you managed to keep the car sitting at 90c degrees constantly. I can barely keep mine under 100c degrees on a cold night?
Im at my ends wits and dont know which way to go. I'm also looking at the CSF radiators just wanted your opinion before i continue down that expensive road.
Your thread gives me more confidence in my 156.000km 1998 996 c2
... I too believe the car got a bad rep and people just went with it.Goodsteed said:
If I recall rightly it was a 996 C4, all be it a 996.2 C4 S that took the top spot at Ecoty 2003?
second place in 2002 actually.However, the original (996.1) C2 took top spot in the inaugural Ecoty in 1998, followed by a GT3.1 taking the honours in 1999, and the turbo in 2001.
monthefish said:
second place in 2002 actually.
However, the original (996.1) C2 took top spot in the inaugural Ecoty in 1998, followed by a GT3.1 taking the honours in 1999, and the turbo in 2001.
Yup - in 2002 it was the favourite of a few but bested by the last NSX-R iirc? Lots of 911 winning / getting the podium in ECOTY, so much so that it became a bit of running joke that the mag was in Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG's pocket However, the original (996.1) C2 took top spot in the inaugural Ecoty in 1998, followed by a GT3.1 taking the honours in 1999, and the turbo in 2001.
Not sure they are bought placings, mainly decent product. But I have little to no insider knowledge in that respect... Vintage year that. Sadly, highlights how a few once attainable cars are now silly money (and those less attainable are even less feasible outside a decent lotto win).Anyway - this thread just keeps on giving! A 3.7 with 360bhp will be perfect in this. Can't wait as more build pictures come through. Any plans for other upgrades? Wheels (I could see this on some nice, lightweight but low-key custom jobs made to look "OEM+", not that he current ones have anything wrong with them)? Strategically placed lighter panels? Or is the latter a bit of compromise too far (cost / effectiveness for road use)?
TheLordJohn said:
I don't know if you've said already, but what are you using in the meantime...!?
This:
A totally standard PPP'd WRX Wagon that I purchased completely sight unseen and sent the cash for it via BACS off the back of a couple of text messages.... probably best not to follow my car buying practices if we're honest although I did the same with the Porsche some years ago
I have a bit of a past with Subaru/Prodrive so when I spotted this browsing e-bay during a meeting it seemed the logical choice as it's still a flat engine and burns fuel at a similar rate to the Porsche Paddy_N_Murphy said:
'Tis the Off-Season surely for schnell schnell motorsport parts delivery?
No it's the worst time of year for doing anything Motorsport related - it's "Silly Season" as we call it when EVERYONE is trying to get stuff made/rebuilt/machined/fettled but we're on schedule on my lump and I'll post a few pictures once it's all back from machining Diesel Meister said:
Anyway - this thread just keeps on giving! A 3.7 with 360bhp will be perfect in this. Can't wait as more build pictures come through. Any plans for other upgrades? Wheels (I could see this on some nice, lightweight but low-key custom jobs made to look "OEM+", not that he current ones have anything wrong with them)? Strategically placed lighter panels? Or is the latter a bit of compromise too far (cost / effectiveness for road use)?
Not really no, I like the fact it looks like a very slightly lower standard car - that's a big plus to me really and as the split rims crack tested up fine when they were rebuilt a while back they have plenty of life left in them at this point. Plus I put quite a lot of work into fitting the brakes under them so it'd be a shame to waste that 
With regards panels as it stands now the lights, front wings and bonnet are all pence off e-bay in the right colour as Boxster bits are a straight fit as well as 996 parts. Likewise for the rad ducts and various other front end bits. The rear bumper is also cheap as chips in the correct colour as it is standard across all the first generation 996. As it's very likely to get bumped, banged and knocked purely because it's out and about so much I'd rather keep it all easily and cheaply replaceable. My target was always to get it to 996 GT3 weight and we've pretty much managed that with no major compromises/expensive bits or uncomfortable lightweight seats
pokiou said:
Hey PPBB,
Got a quick question, i know you covered that you changed the radiators.. but how have you managed to keep the car sitting at 90c degrees constantly. I can barely keep mine under 100c degrees on a cold night?
Im at my ends wits and dont know which way to go. I'm also looking at the CSF radiators just wanted your opinion before i continue down that expensive road.
Your thread gives me more confidence in my 156.000km 1998 996 c2... I too believe the car got a bad rep and people just went with it.
98 C2 will be dual row IMS and ferrous coated pistons - at 156K KM it's got another 300K KM odd in it no problem Got a quick question, i know you covered that you changed the radiators.. but how have you managed to keep the car sitting at 90c degrees constantly. I can barely keep mine under 100c degrees on a cold night?
Im at my ends wits and dont know which way to go. I'm also looking at the CSF radiators just wanted your opinion before i continue down that expensive road.
Your thread gives me more confidence in my 156.000km 1998 996 c2
... I too believe the car got a bad rep and people just went with it.A few things are different on my car to most 996, the engine has a lower temperature (72 degree C) thermostat fitted which opens sooner than the standard thermostat. The car also has no aircon hence my radiators are completely exposed to the ambient airflow down the rad ducts rather than being partially shielded by the aircon condensers, a second point on this is that the aircon condensers (when the aircon is on) heat the ambient airflow before it reaches the radiators which reduces the efficiency of the standard radiators when compared to them running with no aircon condensers fitted. Finally my fan on/off temps are set lower than a standard car, the fans go immediately to high speed when activated and constantly run at low speed below 60KPH to provide additional airflow to the rads at slow speeds.
One of the issues (for want of a better term) with the 996 is that it has a huge coolant capacity and therefore A LOT of thermal mass in the coolant, this means once it is hot it takes quite a bit of time to get this energy back out of the coolant and into the ambient atmosphere. If you can stop it getting that hot in the first place by increasing the cooling systems ability to shed heat to atmosphere you are in a much better position
Hope this helps!
poppopbangbang said:
Finally my fan on/off temps are set lower than a standard car, the fans go immediately to high speed when activated and constantly run at low speed below 60KPH to provide additional airflow to the rads at slow speeds.
!
A manual fan switch (incl. 2 stages) + Oil temperature gauge should have been standard/essential items in both 996 & 986, imho. !
ooid said:
A manual fan switch (incl. 2 stages) + Oil temperature gauge should have been standard/essential items in both 996 & 986, imho.
I've cheated somewhat as the Evo5 logger in the nose reads the coolant temp and vehicle speed from OBD2 and then pulls the fan relays down accordingly but you do have a point poppopbangbang said:
This:
A totally standard PPP'd WRX Wagon that I purchased completely sight unseen and sent the cash for it via BACS off the back of a couple of text messages.... probably best not to follow my car buying practices if we're honest although I did the same with the Porsche some years ago I have a bit of a past with Subaru/Prodrive so when I spotted this browsing e-bay during a meeting it seemed the logical choice as it's still a flat engine and burns fuel at a similar rate to the Porsche
Also a nice car, good work! A totally standard PPP'd WRX Wagon that I purchased completely sight unseen and sent the cash for it via BACS off the back of a couple of text messages.... probably best not to follow my car buying practices if we're honest although I did the same with the Porsche some years ago
I have a bit of a past with Subaru/Prodrive so when I spotted this browsing e-bay during a meeting it seemed the logical choice as it's still a flat engine and burns fuel at a similar rate to the Porsche poppopbangbang said:
98 C2 will be dual row IMS and ferrous coated pistons - at 156K KM it's got another 300K KM odd in it no problem
A few things are different on my car to most 996, the engine has a lower temperature (72 degree C) thermostat fitted which opens sooner than the standard thermostat. The car also has no aircon hence my radiators are completely exposed to the ambient airflow down the rad ducts rather than being partially shielded by the aircon condensers, a second point on this is that the aircon condensers (when the aircon is on) heat the ambient airflow before it reaches the radiators which reduces the efficiency of the standard radiators when compared to them running with no aircon condensers fitted. Finally my fan on/off temps are set lower than a standard car, the fans go immediately to high speed when activated and constantly run at low speed below 60KPH to provide additional airflow to the rads at slow speeds.
One of the issues (for want of a better term) with the 996 is that it has a huge coolant capacity and therefore A LOT of thermal mass in the coolant, this means once it is hot it takes quite a bit of time to get this energy back out of the coolant and into the ambient atmosphere. If you can stop it getting that hot in the first place by increasing the cooling systems ability to shed heat to atmosphere you are in a much better position
Hope this helps!
It helps heaps. But how would i go about copying the same system but with the aircon ?A few things are different on my car to most 996, the engine has a lower temperature (72 degree C) thermostat fitted which opens sooner than the standard thermostat. The car also has no aircon hence my radiators are completely exposed to the ambient airflow down the rad ducts rather than being partially shielded by the aircon condensers, a second point on this is that the aircon condensers (when the aircon is on) heat the ambient airflow before it reaches the radiators which reduces the efficiency of the standard radiators when compared to them running with no aircon condensers fitted. Finally my fan on/off temps are set lower than a standard car, the fans go immediately to high speed when activated and constantly run at low speed below 60KPH to provide additional airflow to the rads at slow speeds.
One of the issues (for want of a better term) with the 996 is that it has a huge coolant capacity and therefore A LOT of thermal mass in the coolant, this means once it is hot it takes quite a bit of time to get this energy back out of the coolant and into the ambient atmosphere. If you can stop it getting that hot in the first place by increasing the cooling systems ability to shed heat to atmosphere you are in a much better position
Hope this helps!
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